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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPelosi blaming Biden for endorsing Harris
Speaking to the New York Times Friday, Pelosi complained: “Had the president gotten out sooner, there may have been other candidates in the race.”
And she said Biden's eventual agreement to halt his run for re-election — a decision she is considered central to — did not go as planned.
“The anticipation was that, if the president were to step aside, that there would be an open primary," she said. And because the president endorsed Kamala Harris immediately, that really made it almost impossible to have a primary at that time.
Critics responded to the comments with a video of Pelosi from ABC News in which she supported Biden as the nominee in Nov. 2022.
https://www.rawstory.com/nancy-pelosi-joe-biden-2669734252/
I'm sorry, but this is rotten. She forced him out with a threat of releasing internal polling.
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RandySF
(73,245 posts)There was no time for a primary and Kamala had access to campaign resources.
Du916
(89 posts)Biden ran in 2000 saying he would serve for one term. He should have stuck with that. He stayed in the race too long to allow a robust primary. I like Kamala a lot, but in retrospect she was too closely aligned with Biden and there certainly was a perception held by many that she was foisted upon the electorate by Biden. That is not entirely untrue.
MattBaggins
(7,944 posts)If Harris were pushed aside for yet another old white guy, the amount of dems that would have stayed home would have been at least twice what it was. The damage would have extended down the ballot as well.
roscoeroscoe
(1,716 posts)It would have been a young white guy.
Dumpy
(98 posts)I think you mean, if the democratic party voted democratically for another candidate...
Abolishinist
(2,392 posts)and they meant what they said.
In other words, WYPIPO are bad. I see it every day on this site.
orleans
(35,888 posts)Abolishinist
(2,392 posts)Or, according to another source,
White people don’t season their food, but wypipo like theirs organic, free range and gluten free.
Wypipo are deathly worried about radical Islamic terroristm, but won’t acknowledge that the vast majority of terrorism in America comes from white people.
White people can’t dance, but wypipo love to dance and will dance anywhere.
Wypipo are pro-life when it comes to abortion, but cool with the death penalty and police brutality. Those wypipo will tell you that “pro-life” is just a term to describe the anti-abortion movement, that it has nothing to do with issues of police violence and capital punishment. But if you mention the movement that focuses on State violence against black bodies, they will quickly say, “but what about black on black crime?”
Wypipo have the intestinal fortitude to wear shorts and flip flops all year round. When it is absolutely too cold to wear them, yoga pants will suffice.
There are some white people who believe in social justice causes, but wypipo need special names for themselves, like “allies” or “social justice warriors.”
https://afropunk.com/2017/03/wypipo-explained/
In my defense, I have and never will wear yoga pants.
rubbersole
(9,657 posts)Occasionally there should be fines.
Montauk6
(8,998 posts)
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Diamond_Dog
(36,560 posts)Buckeyeblue
(5,860 posts)
phylny
(8,721 posts)MattBaggins
(7,944 posts)As a qualified black woman being pushed aside for a whiteman, and it would have been.
Shrek
(4,249 posts)She could have entered the fray and succeeded on her own merits.
Skittles
(163,258 posts)it has been proven twice now that women will never be qualified enough
akbacchus_BC
(5,813 posts)Several other countries vote for women leaders. The US is too White male dominated.
Orrex
(64,983 posts)
moose65
(3,361 posts)Do you have proof that he actually said that he would serve one term?
And it was 2020, not 2000 😃
In both of those articles, it’s “advisors” or “aides” who suggest that Biden would only serve 1 term. I don’t think he ever came out and said that clearly.
But it was implied. His aides didn’t make statements to the media without being authorized to do so. It certainly was implied and discussed at the time.
More: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/4718993-did-biden-break-his-one-term-pledge/
https://www.axios.com/2024/07/03/biden-campaign-democrats-pledge-one-term
PatSeg
(50,071 posts)but I remember Biden saying very firmly that he wasn't planning on being a one term president.
emulatorloo
(45,733 posts)BTW you are not going to produce a quote from Biden, because he never said that.
MadameButterfly
(2,754 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:12 AM - Edit history (1)
Which implies that he'd use good judgement on whether age would prevent him from effectively continuing.
The voters trusted him with that. I think it has been shown that he miscalculated.
Response to Du916 (Reply #52)
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Du916
(89 posts)I liked Mark Kelly. He needed/needs some polishing, but who can dislike a distinguished air combat veteran and astronaut, married to Gabbie Giffords, who herself is a hero. There could have been any number of young candidates who could have jumped into the race and become viable, I never knew much about Clinton or Obama before they ran.
Trueblue1968
(18,451 posts)How dare you post that untruth.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)Biden is also much sharper than Trump any day of the week.
electric_blue68
(20,720 posts)emulatorloo
(45,733 posts)Even with a bad cold, a lot of focus groups came out of the debate reminded how terrible Trump is.
electric_blue68
(20,720 posts)emulatorloo
(45,733 posts)
Polybius
(19,711 posts)It's not there anymore, so I could be mistaken.
electric_blue68
(20,720 posts)MadameButterfly
(2,754 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:53 AM - Edit history (1)
maybe being foisted upon us, too tied to Biden, with not enought time
A network of Limbaugh-like Spanish speaking radio stations could have done in anybody. Why wasn't this on the radar?
It needs to be countered by some NPR-like alternative in Spanish.
Trump has overperformed the polls in 3 elections. Instead of bashing polls we need to understand how. Last minute lying ad blitzes? Russian misinformation? Twitter? A focus on the mindset of low-information voters instead of intelligent arguments? If we don't learn, we'll keep losing even if the elections remain fair.
I would not have chosen to break 2 glass ceilings given what was at stake, I was for the mini-primary or better yet Biden not running at all. But I fell in love with Kamala and Tim and believed we had lucked into the dream ticket. i'm still not sure any candidate could have overcome this. We need to stop throwing away our heroes when they lose in an unfair fight, and look at the the bigger problem.
Captain Zero
(7,809 posts)Al Gore was supposedly going to do it right after 2000.
I doubt it will ever happen. Anyway 25 years too late now, it seems to me.
Hell unless you subscribe to cable or a major pay stream on the internet you can't even get MSNBC.
But free streams like google, pluto and plex all have FOX and Newsmax cranking out the disinformation. Why is that?
MichMan
(14,801 posts)There really hasn't been a RW commentator who has taken his place and has anywhere close to the audience he had.
BannonsLiver
(19,034 posts)They have a galaxy of pod cast guys and content creators on TikTok and YouTube that reach more people than fatty Rush ever could.
MichMan
(14,801 posts)BannonsLiver
(19,034 posts)MadameButterfly
(2,754 posts)we need to counter right wing disinformation wherever it is. We think we can overcome all the RW sources with old fashioned rallies and speeches which RW media doesn't even carry, while RW is two steps ahead with new methods of propaganda.
Biden's decision to run for another term was a terrible, and tragic, mistake.
His decades of service are treasured. But it was time to pass the torch to our amazing bench to battle it out in a robust primary, from which our nominee, perhaps Kamala, would have emerged. There would be no "we don't know enough about her." When distinguishing herself from other candidates, she would have had more space to define her priorities independent of Biden's.
Biden's skill, heart, and determination to overcome any obstacle made him an incredible legislator and an incredible president. But it also led him astray on the final, perhaps most pivotal, decision of his career.
AlanAdam
(100 posts)I hadn’t thought of that. But still, the Dem voters not having a say in who the new candidate would be led to a lot of resentment. And if she really was the best candidate, she would have been elected fair and square. Given what happened four years earlier in the primary, I think it should be obvious she wasn’t the best candidate, but I understand why it was politically not possible to replace her, given the importance of the AA female vote.
Response to soandso (Original post)
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Dem4life1234
(2,530 posts)Already sick of this. She needs to be quiet. Embarrassing. When is she gonna retire?
Maybe if some of these old guard Dems fucking stopped attacking each other and taking it to the real enemy, that fat ass pedo felon, maybe just fucking maybe progress would be made.
Farmgirl1961
(1,657 posts)Lie, cheat, steal, oppress, prey on emotions, misconstrue, bully and have the ear of the media to peddle their BS. Dems play an entirely different game. Dems might just need to play dirty to get themselves back in the game
electric_blue68
(20,720 posts)She was an ethical person, who wanted fairness for all people.
But I believe she knew on rare occasions you had to get down in the dirt, and fight.
Skya Rhen
(2,724 posts)not when it comes to Trump and his supporters.
Perhaps if Democratic leaders took a page out of the Republicans playbook and show unwavering support for their nominee, then we can have a better chance of success. Voters tend to view such support as a sign of strength and they tend to shun the party that demonstrates weakness.
They treated Biden with less respect than they would treat a criminal, namely Trump.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)
spooky3
(37,316 posts)said these things.
Lulu KC
(7,751 posts)She never seems to do anything without a good reason, but I don't know who this is helping right now. I would like to ask her that.
electric_blue68
(20,720 posts)How does this help?
I don't think do.
Hope22
(3,889 posts)Her treatment of Biden along with Schiff and other top Dems was despicable. They forced him out and now complain about the disaster they caused. I’m wondering about her (P) sanity at this point. Harris did an amazing job. If there were mistakes they were not for the lack of trying. Thy are completely trying to remove Harris from the ranks. Not a good look! Looks like they are killing any momentum the Dems have made here.
Response to soandso (Original post)
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MustLoveBeagles
(13,160 posts)It looks like the media aren't the only ones that like to kick him in the nuts. 
Dem4life1234
(2,530 posts)Biden doesn't deserve all this crap. Bad enough the lame stream ditzies attack him, but one would think his party would rally around him. Maybe he would have run if it was not for their big annoying mouths.
Ocelot II
(124,157 posts)
BluenFLA
(199 posts)She worked with Biden closely. She didn't see he was in decline earlier and waited until June of this year to force him out?
Alephy
(89 posts)Nancy texted me a couple of times yesterday.
She was asking me for more money.
Stop.
Too soon.
Jit423
(1,176 posts)STOP IT!
Woodwizard
(1,157 posts)We just have to resign ourselves that a good portion of this country is fucking stupid.
ananda
(31,489 posts)Pelosi isn't thinking well.
MustLoveBeagles
(13,160 posts) cadoman
(1,192 posts)It's not like she needs to make comments like this to win re-election.
The thing that the younger folks need to understand about us old timers: we know when it's time to step aside. We don't know when it's going to happen, but when it does, we know.
Biden thought he had enough gas to make it another four years but after that debate, he had to acknowledge the reality. He made a firm endorsement of the best candidate he knew, and of course it was the woman who had been ably serving as his VP. That firm endorsement and her being able to use his FEC account saved us a lot of drama and infighting and red tape.
It wasn't pretty or easy but it put us in spitting distance of taking down the orange man a second time. And as much as I hate him, he's the sneakiest and toughest candidate the rethugs have ever fielded, and Harris matched him blow for blow.
akbacchus_BC
(5,813 posts)tritsofme
(19,044 posts)Skipping over her this summer would have torn the party apart, it just wasn’t a realistic option. Harris never should have been put in that situation, she did as well as she could under the circumstances, but she has just never been a very good presidential candidate.
However a competitive primary would have produced a stronger candidate, someone like Whitmer or Shapiro, who at least wouldn’t have been completely swept out of the Blue Wall.
Lancero
(3,167 posts)Could we not have considered the 2020 primaries when it came to picking a VP?
tritsofme
(19,044 posts)It’s a shame, but Harris was the only option.
Lancero
(3,167 posts)tritsofme
(19,044 posts)That still doesn’t make her an ideal presidential candidate.
ificandream
(11,112 posts)Look at 2016. Hillary was incredibly smart, but she took her victory to be pre-ordained. It turned out not to be. Kamala didn't. She worked her ass off. Between the RW lies and the idiocy of the voters, that's what she couldn't overcome.Just like 2016, we'll never know anytime soon what we would have had.
ancianita
(40,254 posts)tritsofme
(19,044 posts)It would have been disastrous for the party to try to skip her, no one even seriously contemplated it.
Biden chose her as his running mate, but Democratic primary voters had no say in our candidate.
She did the best she possibly could, but just still wasn’t a great candidate.
If Biden had decided not to seek reelection a year ago, we could have produced a much stronger candidate.
Mme. Defarge
(8,686 posts)Makes me wonder if Joe should have stayed the course and forcefully defended his record.
luvallpeeps
(1,186 posts)Wall to wall 24/7 with the Joe is a demented, old, feeble man. Never mind the herculean effort to save us from the shitshow he had to follow. He knew what he was doing. Even though fox business had to report daily his great job numbers and the stock market soaring. Sickening. Low info populace, and the people who we’re paying attention got their “news” from the toilet. 🚽
akbacchus_BC
(5,813 posts)debate should not have required him to step down. He delivered a great speech the next day. If he didn't step down, he would have been crucified by the so called pro Democratic media, they are relentless. Time was not on the DP side to run a Primary again, VP Harris was the obvious choice. She gave her best but her best was not enough. It all boils down to men not wanting a female president, Latinos for the criminal, Muslims voting for him as they think he will end the conflict between Israel and Palestine (they have a rude awakening coming as it seems they have no clue that the criminal is buddies with Netenyahu), Blacks and other immigrants (especially Indians from Guyana) who voted for him. The ones who will be deported couldn't vote. It will be a rough four year ride, buckle up world.
Emile
(33,982 posts)LisaL
(47,176 posts)NT
hotellanai1986
(160 posts)She did NOT want Kamala Harris - AT ALL! She didn't like Kamala in any seat of power because Kamala didn't "kiss the ring" of her or Diane Feinstein. Yes, I have been waiting quite a while to sing this truth! All White Democratic women say "Nancy just wants the Dems to win." Well, like most things, this is simply not true. Kamala was an extremely prepared and relatable candidate. She had the mainstream media, Democratic old guard AND Maga trying to stop her from soaring.
And I am quite sick and tired of MSNBC stating she ran an "OK" campaign. It was flawless. I cannot wait until all of the hidden truth (that is actually in plain sight if people 1) remember what Trump has said in his rallies to his base in recent weeks about voting 2) realize that Elon wasn't there just to give Trump money. He "pals around with" Putin (shoutout to Palin)! 3) demand the public see the unredacted report on the findings of the 2016 campaign and 4) demand an investigation into all of those bomb threats where the voting venues were evacuated for periods of time). This so called victory seems like it was calculated to "correct" all of the flaws of Trumps 2016 so called win. Elon is rich enough to orchestrate a voting coup but he isn't really a tech phenom so a bit of the tell-tale signs of sabotage are visible if only people will recognize what they are viewing. I don't want any post mortems until the fat lady has sung on this election and she isn't even warming up yet.
Don't try to tsk tsk at this. Just bookmark this post and hold your opinion until after November ends.
Self Esteem
(2,042 posts)If she had gotten her way, we'd have a nasty convention fight and the party probably would have been decimated Tuesday.
Response to soandso (Original post)
iemanja This message was self-deleted by its author.
krawhitham
(4,970 posts)“And as I say, Kamala may have, I think she would have done well in that and been stronger going forward. That didn’t happen, We live with what happened. And because the president endorsed Kamala Harris immediately, that really made it almost impossible to have a primary at that time. If it had been much earlier, it would have been different.”
Response to krawhitham (Reply #32)
iemanja This message was self-deleted by its author.
Try reading the bold part
“And as I say, Kamala may have, I think she would have done well in that and been stronger going forward. That didn’t happen, We live with what happened. And because the president endorsed Kamala Harris immediately, that really made it almost impossible to have a primary at that time. If it had been much earlier, it would have been different.”
iemanja
(55,797 posts)krawhitham
(4,970 posts)LisaL
(47,176 posts)NT
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Instead of allowing insiders and deal makers make it for us.
He was being forced out by the Pelosi wing of the party and I think this was his big FU to them.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)Which the party as a whole should have thought before forcing Biden out at a time they did.
thesquanderer
(12,560 posts)...when folks were deciding who our 2016 nominee would be. I think maybe he wanted to show, "see, this is how it's done."
displacedvermoter
(3,667 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:17 AM - Edit history (1)
LisaL
(47,176 posts)forcing Biden out. It was too late to have any "primaries" when Biden was forced out. They should have just stuck with him at that point, but they forced him out just the same, because they were afraid of losing seats in congress.
Well, that didn't work out, and now she blames Biden for her own doing.
hadEnuf
(3,099 posts)The GOP couldn't have done better themselves.
We all knew it could be a repeat of 1968.
PatSeg
(50,071 posts)He was the clearest voice of reason during that horrible time.
Joinfortmill
(17,754 posts)MustLoveBeagles
(13,160 posts)It's really disgusting
LoisB
(10,073 posts)be said is, "thank you President Biden, job well done."
COL Mustard
(7,328 posts)Will do it again in 2028.
Response to Joinfortmill (Reply #24)
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In It to Win It
(10,375 posts)but no one had that foresight.
Arazi
(7,694 posts)krawhitham
(4,970 posts)Lancero
(3,167 posts)Truly, we do eat our own.
tman
(1,183 posts)That debate was a historic game changing debacle that many still don't want to admit, but the in-fighting is pointless.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)NT
Dave says
(5,089 posts)This is horrendous that she’d come out and say it now. Really tarnishes her legacy.
Pisces
(5,924 posts)This has been said many times on this board.
Lulu KC
(7,751 posts)
standingtall
(3,064 posts)She has lost her political instincts if She believed She could forced out a sitting President just several weeks before the convention bypassing the Black Woman VP in history would've went over well. Any other then Harris would've done worse completely fractured the party. Biden endorsed Harris, duh what did She expect him to do? Pelosi needs to take responsibility for her role in this. She gambled and came up with nothing to show it. I still believe and always will believe if a spin team was placed around Biden he could've had a chance to recover, but instead we got the circular firing squad and the throw him under the bus team. The best of the bad options was for the Democratic party and it's donors was to stand behind their President.
LizBeth
(11,174 posts)standingtall
(3,064 posts)That is 3 years older then Biden. If Biden was to old then so is She. She should retire now and let a new generation take over.
LizBeth
(11,174 posts)LisaL
(47,176 posts)They should have stuck with him but they forced him out instead. There was no time to have any primaries to pick another candidate. And why would she expect him not to endorse his own VP?
StarryNite
(11,489 posts)She needs to bow out because she is not helping our party.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)And we need to address the hard truths if we want to win in the future. Joe should have never run and Harris should have never been the replacement.
Nancy Pelosi is a tough politician that knows how to win. We would be wise to take her advice.
marybourg
(13,367 posts)even gotten the Black woman vote.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)They wouldn't pass over a qualified Democrat chosen through a solid vetting process over skin color.
Suggesting otherwise is more than a bit insulting.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)When and how was that going to take place?
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Like they did for decades.
We are reaping the consequences of not having a candidate who had to make a case to the public that they were the best person for the job and thinking anyone party insiders chose would get the job done.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:00 AM - Edit history (1)
Which is why they had to zoom to officially nominate Harris/Walz prior to the convention. And even though the OH deadline was extended, technically that new date was not in affect in 2024.
The new deadline wouldn't be in effect. Which is again why they had to nominate Harris/Walz by zoom prior to the convention.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)The Ohio deadline was extended. We selected candidates at the convention for over a century. Primaries were gradually introduced, state by state but for a long time delegates won through primaries were only a portion of the overall process and in fact still are with superdelegates. But they rarely come into play any more.
Response to Zeitghost (Reply #121)
Lulu KC This message was self-deleted by its author.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Was demonstrably false.
Response to Zeitghost (Reply #127)
Lulu KC This message was self-deleted by its author.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)put in place to late for the law to take an effect in 2024. Which is why they had to zoom prior to the convention to officially nominate Harris/Walz.
brush
(59,502 posts)I'm a Black man and I know where of I speak. That would've been the worst way to treat the most loyal faction of the party.
We lost. We now we know we live in an even moreracist, sexist nation than we thought. We have to live with it. Harris did a great job after being dropped into a near-impossible situation. Stop the blame game or we'll lose the Black vote going forward.
Love Nancy but it looks like she's lost a step by putting the blame on Harris. Time to step down at 84. She should've pressure Joe to step down in '22 to have a proper, whole party primary. After that disastrous debate performance no way Biden could win, but forcing him out came way too late.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Harris was never going to win, she got very poor support in 2020. She plays here great in California but had no hope of nationwide success.
Any group that has consistently supported Democrats by a 80/20 margin at minimum would have supported the party nominee, provided the selection was done in as open and fair a manner as possible. We have now seen the results of trying to hand pick a party insider behind closed doors.
brush
(59,502 posts)Keep it up blaming her for this debacle and we lose the Black vote if there's another election. And the Dem party can never win without it.
tulipsandroses
(7,135 posts)Do not assume that we would just fall in line and continue to fall in line.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Just ask the Pro-Hamas vote how they're doing in a few months after they took their toys and went home instead.
If you'd rather indirectly support Republicans rather than support the party nominee, you're part of the problem.
I wasn't a Harris supporter, but I gladly got behind her. She performed as expected. We can't have that happen again. We need to choose our candidate as a party, through the primary process.
tulipsandroses
(7,135 posts)But to clarify your assumptions. I said it then, I would have registered as an Independent. I would have supported whatever candidate the democrats put up this year to try to stop trump. After that , no guarantee that I would always support a democrat.
I would vote my conscience and back progressive candidates in future elections if they suit my needs. I also predicted that as many black women left the party, Democrats would be getting primaried more often, as black women looked to support and promote other candidates than " traditional democrats".
marybourg
(13,367 posts)To not have chosen her would have been a slap in the face to our most loyal group of voters - Black women. I don’t think they would have been understanding towards a “solid vetting process” resulting in any other candidate. Your opinion may differ.
white_wolf
(6,257 posts)If Harris had won the primary then she would have earned the nomination.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)NT
marybourg
(13,367 posts)VP, a Black woman, in favor of someone else, would very much be passing her over and a slap in the face to our most loyal voting bloc - Black women.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)It's about winning elections and defeating the right.
Nobody is owed the nomination. Presumptive nominees chosen by party insiders is how you lose elections, as we have clearly seen.
Polybius
(19,711 posts)I think Nancy was saying if Biden dropped out earlier, there would have been a primary. If voters chose someone else, then it would be legit. When Biden dropped out, I remember DU for the first couple of hours here. We all had opinions on who should be the nominee.
Gavin waited the longest to endorse her. He was reportedly bitter.
Lulu KC
(7,751 posts)This is hindsight, poorly timed comments of no use to anyone, and kicking people when they're down. That is not the Nancy I have known and admired.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)It's only of no use if you like to lose.
The party leadership made mistake after mistake and we are paying for it now.
Lulu KC
(7,751 posts)I am commenting on her timing and how this "advice" is useful right now. It doesn't help anyone win anything except for another "Dems in disarray" headline.
But maybe people like that.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Is always now. Running away from the hard realities and pretending they don't exist is what got us here.
Which is precisely the point of former Speaker Pelosi. Had we addressed the hard truths about Biden's reelection instead of insisting that everything was just fine, Joe was a sharp as a tack and had the energy of man half his age and anyone could beat Trump, Tuesday would have ended up a lot better for everyone here.
Lulu KC
(7,751 posts)I am not saying anything about what she said. I'm talking about when she is saying it. I apparently do not know how to make that clear so good night.
StarryNite
(11,489 posts)Just curious.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)The person who won a well contested and open primary. Failing that, the person who made the best case for being the candidate at the convention.
I was never afforded either choice, my candidate was chosen for me by party insiders.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)how would it mean you somehow afforded a choice in selecting the candidate? Were you at the convention? And convention was already after a deadline to get on the ballot in Ohio, which is why they had to zoom prior to the convention for official nomination.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)We've been over this in countless threads.
Having multiple candidates throw their hat's in the ring and do their best to win over delegates that represent me at the convention isn't ideal. But it's at least some semblance of a democratic process. Instead we got back room deals between insiders to quickly make the decision, away from the eyes of the rank and file.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)Which is why they had to zoom. And if you say Harris was selected through these back room dealings, what is Pelosi blaming Biden for?
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Pelosi was blaming Biden for A. Not getting out soon enough despite internal polling that showed a massive Trump win. and B. Endorsing Harris prior to allowing others to throw their hat in the ring, making any sort of public vetting impossible.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)But she doesn't want to put any blame on herself. And why shouldn't he have endorsed his own VP?
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Harris did better, but ultimately not enough.
Because the VP did extremely poorly in 2020 before dropping out, has never won a single election outside of California, was very unpopular herself and was inextricably tied to an unpopular administration that she continually refused to distance herself from.
DiamondShark
(1,150 posts)And if you are a party insider, what were the numbers? You can share by DM if needed.
StarryNite
(11,489 posts)I think it was very inappropriate for her to go out three days after the election and say what she did. Kamala and Tim and their whole crew and thousands of people across the country worked their tails off and did a fantastic job. Biden listened to Pelosi and the others and stepped down. IMHO what Pelosi did was very disrespectful and completely unnecessary.
soandso
(1,631 posts)Party leadership, of which Nancy is right at the top, along with the donors, knew well in advance that Biden was mentally declining and should have addressed it with him, PRIVATELY, before the primaries began. There was plenty of opportunity. Instead, they decided to endorse AND finance a second term for him and then freaked out when it was too late so they chose to publicly humiliate him and Pelosi even admitted she threatened him. It's not a matter of his desire and choice to run for a second term, it's that none of them saw fit to prevent it and then backstabbed him at the last minute. It's shitty, ruthless, unkind and was strategically a mistake. I detest it when anyone won't take responsibility for their own actions and blames someone else. She needs to own what she did but she's too worried about herself to be honest.
Deminpenn
(16,726 posts)Did his age affect his ability to control his stutter and ability to express himself more clearly? Of course it did. That is to be expected. Congenital conditions usually get worse with age. That, however, did not mean Biden wasn't still mentally sharp any more than it means a person who has ALS or a similar motor-neuron condition is not mentally sharp. Do you think Fetterman's mentally deficient because he has to use a closed captioning device to understand what he's beng asked because his stroke affected his ability to process spoken words?
Biden could have explained that he just needs a little longer to answer questions and it helps him it he prepares remarks because it helps him communicate more clearly.
One last observation from having a parent in assisted living. There were usually two kinds of residents, one who were in good physical health, but their minds were going or gone. The second kind were residents like my parent who were physically frail, but still pretty sharp mentally. Trump is the former, Biden the latter.
moonscape
(5,492 posts)sharpness, no amount of explanation that he needed more time to answer questions could have over-ridden his weak communication in a vigorously hot political campaign and environment.
I love Joe. I do. But every time he spoke I was holding my breath, and frankly also straining to hear him. This coming from someone who wanted him to stay in the race because I trusted his leadership and wanted him to continue as our President. But I was wrong. He could not have won with his reduced communication skills.
In It to Win It
(10,375 posts)She was the only person that didn't have to start from scratch 100 days out from the election. She was the only person that could have inherited the campaign funds and infrastructure. Unfortunately for us, that was the predicament we were in at the time.
In the moment, going with her was the most efficient option we had, and she was the option we could mobilize the quickest without party infighting.
COL Mustard
(7,328 posts)Joe’s political carcass from now until 2026.
LizBeth
(11,174 posts)Campaign
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)
stillcool
(33,570 posts)I needed that. 
best medicine
niyad
(123,157 posts)soandso
(1,631 posts)niyad
(123,157 posts)soandso
(1,631 posts)Pisces
(5,924 posts)Down world and Trump has totally won. Pelosi is a true blue Democrat but keep attacking her for speaking the hard truth.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)And now she is trying to avoid responsibility.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Would rather lose than admit they were wrong about Biden and Harris.
yorkster
(2,930 posts)She did not need to express these thoughts publicly. It helps no one.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)a couple weeks prior to the convention.
yorkster
(2,930 posts)whether Joe could have won. We'll never know but it did not look good.
That said, Nancy should not have gone there.
The Unmitigated Gall
(4,710 posts)And it's the New York Times she's blathering to.
bovine6
(49 posts)I suggest cognitive decline. Needs to step down and shut her pie hole.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)The same freaking paper that lead the march to force Joe to drop out. As if it should be up to the media.
Skya Rhen
(2,724 posts)when it comes to trashing their own but can’t use that same media to put forth their accomplishments or make contrasts with the other party. This revelation was one of the most shocking that came out during these past three months. Who would have known that they had the media’s ear all along.
Ollie Garkie
(282 posts)Pay lip service to "were all in this together" but can't work together for shit. Repubs march in lockstep while exhorting us peasants to "rugged individualism". Fascinating.
soandso
(1,631 posts)The GOP is fractured with neocons and other never Trumpers against the rest.
Karasu
(920 posts)The people you're referring to do not even exist in that party anymore in remotely significant enough quantities to matter. Certainly not anymore. Moderate Republicans (and the definition of "modrerate Republican" has shifted greatly in the last 8 years alone--most are still pretty far to the right on a global scale) aren't even mainstream in that party, and I would argue haven't been in a long time.
The Democratic Party of today is vastly more diverse in terms of its thinking than the GOP has been in decades. It is our greatest strength, but also our greatest weakness whenever we're so quick to finger-point one another.
soandso
(1,631 posts)Hell, they had a mutiny against their own speaker.
Karasu
(920 posts)Plus, we all know how that turned out.
The incident in question also has nothing to do with the number of "moderate Republicans" or the levers of power they hold in the party. Trump has received more votes than any GOP politician in history. Almost 70% of the entire party believed he won in 2020. I could go on. I have no idea what more it's going to take for people to finally realize that moderate Republicans are effectively extinct, or at least, might as well be in an electoral sense. As far as their party goes, they shot their shot. They're over, they're done. But they're more than welcome to join the Big Tent over here if they so choose.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)They are not playing the game right if you think the party is done.
DiamondShark
(1,150 posts)The GOP only has room for extremists now.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)
Xolodno
(6,941 posts)It came out that Biden's age issues were being hidden by his staff. The best move would have been like LBJ and just say he's not going to run again. He got the bastard out, take the win and move on. Let someone younger with new ideas come to the fore front.
And Harris would most likely won out anyway, but she would have time to campaign, develop a message, bring up new ideas, etc. Instead she got three months and forced to use the Biden playbook. She was probably blindsided when all this happened. Not fair to her at all. It was clear Biden was going to lose due to some unpopular decisions, you don't do those in your first term, you kick them to the second when you are term limited.
Newsom and others probably recognized this, hence they started shadow campaigning even before the election, as if they already knew. Good news, we won't have Trump the next time around since he's term limited and there will most likely be buyers remorse. In top of that, the GOP field is rather thin of possible candidates. And the bastard may not even make it four years at his age and lifestyle, unless of course even Hell doesn't even want to take him.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)Just like Putin didn't care. How many terms did Putin serve now?
And she is complaining about Biden endorsing Harris after she helped force Biden out. There was no time for anyone to campaign in the primary by that time. It was a couple of weeks before the convention, which was scheduled very late. Deadlines to even get on the ballot were fast approaching.
There was no time to have any primaries.
Xolodno
(6,941 posts)I've been known to be critical and have the hidden post count to prove it. Sorry, but Democratic politicians are not Jesus. Trump was preparing to oust Biden right from the get go and has proven he is a master at manipulation. Get someone new, his entire plan falls apart. That's why he freaked out when Harris became the new nominee, but she didn't have enough time. Again, it wasn't fair to her. Sometimes, you need to know when to walk away.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)But at the time Nancy and company forced Biden out, it was too late for that. Which Nancy should have thought of when she was forcing Biden out. Now that it didn't work out, she is trying to avoid the blame.
Xolodno
(6,941 posts)She may have thought right from the beginning he should be a one termer, but trying to do so early on would look very bad. So she kept her mouth shut and waited to see if she was wrong or Biden make the correct decision. After it became clear, she decided to move. And given that she no longer seeks leadership and this may very well be her last term, she is willing to speak her mind. Shoot, she might even be cursing herself for not being more proactive early on. And as I stated earlier, he had staff hiding the problems (my mom is going down hill rapidly, yet my siblings say she's fine...she is not).
At the end of the day, we all make decisions that we regret, but have to live with them. But you can pass down the lessons learned, that's how I see it. I don't blame Harris, she was dealt a bad hand and quite frankly did well with it.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)NT
Xolodno
(6,941 posts)But I already have questions, why did they have to agree that Biden should run again? Should be a no brainer. So early on, they had some worries.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)NT
Arazi
(7,694 posts)In an interview on CNN.
THEY shut out any other possible candidates very early on.
(I must be blocked by a shitload of people here since I’ve now made this point twice earlier on this thread already but it’s being ignored)
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/12/15/pelosi-schumer-intv-2024-trump-biden-jan-6-gangel-lead-vpx.cnn
akbacchus_BC
(5,813 posts)Polybius
(19,711 posts)They also lost in 1952 when Truman decided not to run again.
But at least she would have an honest chance. From what I've read today, she was blindsided. She had plans for a 2028 run and then got the phone call. Lets be honest, Biden made the same mistake as H W Bush did, spent the second half of his admin focusing on foreign policy. People struggling to make ends meet don't give a rats ass about that.
We're supposed to be the party of the working people, every time we stray from that, we lose.
Chicagogrl1
(513 posts)Is to nominate a strong, MALE candidate. Sadly, America will never vote for a woman.
SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)They're a CULT, and they'll vote for whomever is presented.
I predict we'll see a woman President, and it will come from the other party.
I don't know why we ever thought it was even plausible they were crossing to our side to vote for Kamala. Clearly they were not.
Elessar Zappa
(16,326 posts)The rest are just Republicans and swing voters who happened to vote for Trump. And there’s always swing voters who aren’t loyal to either party.
WVGal1963
(200 posts)……little too late. What the HELL do your words mean, now? Are ya kidding me???? Love you beyond measure. But NO NO NO to your opinion on THIS one!!
Tribetime
(6,480 posts)So the Problem wasn't our candidate
LisaL
(47,176 posts)it was predictable that it would be difficult for our candidate to win over White and Latino males.
Tribetime
(6,480 posts)I can't believe we are not ready for a female President...Only females can save us from this madness....from an old white guy
uponit7771
(92,707 posts)... 24 elction but 60-40 for midterms for Trumps abortion stance.
That was some serious mic to get 18 point move
LisaL
(47,176 posts)a lot of Trump voters to the polls. He is the main attraction.
ecstatic
(34,716 posts)Multiple cities and towns everyday. No rest at all for over 107 days. Killed it at the debate. Wanted to do more but tRump knew that wouldn't help him.
The loss, assuming it's legitimate, was due to the overwhelming ignorance among voters. They have no clue of what they voted for and they've been brainwashed day in and day out for at least the past 4 years. I was thinking even before the election that we would need to address this issue after the election. We definitely need to address it now.
AverageOldGuy
(2,520 posts)soandso
(1,631 posts)Pelosi released her book, The Art of Power, right after forcing Biden out.
DemocratSinceBirth
(100,860 posts)The one cohort that couldn't be bought, couldn't be bamboozled.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)NT
Dave Bowman
(4,950 posts)I'm afraid that Pelosi is trying to find a scapegoat.
Sneederbunk
(16,028 posts)torn the party apart, racially and genderwise.
Mark.b2
(545 posts)Still, going with Harris was the best choice with just over 100 days to go.
flamingdem
(40,285 posts)Did we really have anyone right for the moment?
Gavin Newsom?
I don't think so.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(121,381 posts)A bit late to be pointing fingers especially considering her part in the whole thing.
Freethinker65
(11,194 posts)I was disappointed when the Democrats decided to back Biden for a second term. I wish he had been challenged a bit. The Democratic Party blew an opportunity to show Biden's strength's/weaknesses early if he was primaried. Once he became the nominee, he had my support.
I didn't watch the debate, but was frustrated how the change of nominee occurred. With Biden deciding not to run, the only acceptable candidate was Harris as primary voters had voted for the Biden/Harris ticket.
If the Democratic Party decided to stab her in the back to go with another white male to counter Trump, I think Trump would have won by an even bigger margin. While perhaps the party might have gained more misogynistic/racist votes, they would have lost votes from Democratic women and minorities (used to seeing white men catapulted to higher positions over themselves).
Harris ran a nearly flawless campaign in a short period of time.
oldmanlynn
(638 posts)A better candidate might have been came out of an open primary Who knows.
Arazi
(7,694 posts)In a 12/22 interview both Pelosi and Schumer shut out anyone else and said our nominee is Biden
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/12/15/pelosi-schumer-intv-2024-trump-biden-jan-6-gangel-lead-vpx.cnn
Maybe Nancy is the one who’s getting senile?
(Yes I’m still bitter she forced him out)
LisaL
(47,176 posts)the normal primary.
Silent Type
(8,935 posts)Harris/Walz was a good ticket and I’m proud of them considering the situation.
DC77
(141 posts)put this in the should have, would have category
wichita
(8 posts)After that first terrible debate, they should have circled the wagons and defended Biden to the media. Eventually the media attention on that debate would have waned and we could have moved on and Biden would have been our nominee. Yeah he's old but it's obvious that doesn't matter. We might have kept the Biden voting coalition if the Democrats had just stuck together instead of doing what they are doing now, panicking and tearing each other apart. Dem leadership is responsible for this, not Biden.
Lulu KC
(7,751 posts)and was not able to complete his term? Kamala would be our next president. I think he would have made that happen if he had any doubt about his abilities or even his desire to stay in office. He said he had more work to do, but he didn't say how much.
We'll never know. That is my mantra at this point in the week.
akbacchus_BC
(5,813 posts)your own and not oust them (like they did to Al Franken).
jalan48
(14,816 posts)AlexSFCA
(6,298 posts)and everything to do with how voters perceived Biden’s administration. No dem candidate could completely separate themselves from Biden. In fact, Harris likely has done much better than any other dem could. We would be looking at even bigger losses.
1) The biggest mistake Biden admin did was not addressing illegal border crossings immediately upon taking office. He didn’t need congress, if there was a lawsuit against his executive order, it would have played out in court and the public would have seen that Biden was serious about addressing immigration. 2) The inflation had much bigger and lasting negative impact on working class across every state. Biden was not communicating to the public regarding state of historic inflation and exactly what was being done (IRA did not help); voters mostly heard him blaming Russia’s war and Covid supply chains instead of taking about how to tackle it and how he could use the entire power of federal government to focus on inflation and quickly bringing down gas prices. 3) We need to get rid of this toxic “woke” shit - it is not popular with anyone but the very fringe. WTF cares about f’ng pronouns and profoundly toxic DEI programs in the face of incoming authoritarian regime and nationwide abortion ban.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)Meanwhilr Trump kills a million people, gives scarce covid support Putin, sells our foreign secrets to Putin and they is okay. He committed crimes everyday. But we have to coddle everyone and spoon feed. Nope.
AlexSFCA
(6,298 posts)the fact that trump won popular vote snd increased his base is mind boggling. When lower income folks were hit with inflation, many never recovered, little mattered to them. Certainly, not foreign policy/wars, national security, democracy, etc. Meanwhile they saw millions from all around. the world crossing the border, offered asylum and.access to US job market and Biden wouldn’t even comment on it like it’s a non issue.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)Their votes are registering as returned, or as not voted. People in Texas who voted in person are saying their votes are registered as returned.
ecstatic
(34,716 posts)First of all, anything that doesn't promote straight white male supremacy is going to be mocked and complained about by republicans. With the media's help, the rightwing can make any topic "toxic." The issue then becomes: what are we doing to counter it? Are we using our megaphones and platforms appropriately to counter gop propaganda and in most cases the answer is no.
Regarding "pronouns:" Democrats are not responsible for that trend. I think you're conflating our party with what's going on in our society and culture. I work with a lot of healthcare organizations and even the VA has changed many patient forms to include gender identity, pronouns, etc. Democrats didn't force that on them. It's simply the result of how our society has changed and they're acknowledging that change, which is a good thing.
Regarding the "woke shit" that you mentioned: Democratic voters are more likely to embrace such terms and policies; however, none of those things are creations of the Democratic party.
DEI policies are created and implemented by institutions and corporations. DEI helps organizations to innovate, compete and avoid mistakes that could be made by companies with no diversity.
So I'm not sure what you're suggesting... If you're suggesting that the Democratic party should be a hostile place for people who embrace racial justice, equality and LGBT rights, then to my ears, it almost sounds like you're saying democrats should alienate LGBT people and black people in the hopes of bringing more bigots into the fold. If that were to happen, congratulations, we would probably finally have a viable third party in this country. And I would support that third party because I'm not going to support a party that does not embrace justice and basic human rights.
MrWowWow
(519 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:39 AM - Edit history (3)
And that's the ballgame folks. Welcome to the new world odor. We got fooled again. The kids are not alright. They
probably never will be again either. We needed President Biden to step aside at least a year ago. Timing is everything. He was a good president. Probably the best I'll live to see. The plan was executed waaaaaay too late. Nancy definitely made the right move, but we ran out of time executing it. Now unfortunately, we and the rest of our tribe will soon reap the whirlwind. For now, we sit around and share this digital campfire while anxiously waiting for the ghost of Tom Joad.
.
.
.
.
.
See you all around "camp..."
.
MerryBlooms
(11,921 posts)But, nope.
So,yeah. We fuckd ourselves. We lost the wh, both houses.
So, I'm drinking a littlered wine as usual, don't know about you. You feeling the Joy campaign? Me? Not so much.
I'm still talking to my republican relatives. Just like when Biden won. Nothing has changed.
Still need hernia operation, sis needs heart valve procedure, other sis has had stroke and aneurysm.
Got so much going on right now. Folks So Privileged, they can threaten to leave? Lol
I'm just trying to keep us alive and arranging doc apps, etc...
Omgosh, would so love if our only worry was leaving the country. 😂😂😂
bigtree
(91,743 posts)...she helped blow the thing up, and now she's saying she favored even more disruption and division at the convention and beyond?
Her political interests and concerns would have been so compromised by the eventual centrist consensus candidate that emerged she wouldn't be able to recognize them from the moderate Dems who tried three times to replace her as Speaker.
MerryBlooms
(11,921 posts)I have zero strength in me right now. I have to go lay lldown. This hernia is really burning. I need to lay down
I'll check in tomorrow
I need to get flat
mahina
(19,683 posts)Aloha.
elleng
(139,150 posts)Hassler
(4,213 posts)Maybe more helpful is to figure out how and why Chump won and do something different. For example, Harris raised a billion in a few weeks. How was it used? To knock on doors and other things from the 18th century. While we were ridiculing Charlie Kirk and the rest of the MAGAts, they engaged porn watching Incels to vote for Dementia J.
doc03
(37,678 posts)a more electable candidate. When he dropped out we didn't have time to have a normal election
cycle. The Biden / Harris administration was always under water, neither one was going to get elected.
I survived the last time that asshole was president and will survive this one. At 76 today I may never see another
election. It will be decades to undo the damage Trump will do.
Arazi
(7,694 posts)By as early as 2022 they’d already shut out discussion of anyone else. This is bullshit historical revisionism.
Here’s Pelosi and Schumer December 2022 saying in a CNN interview that Biden is the nominee. Period.
Who was going to buck that? Anyone with ambitions (Newsom, Whitmer, Shapiro etc) we’re firmly told to stand down well into Biden’s 2nd term
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/12/15/pelosi-schumer-intv-2024-trump-biden-jan-6-gangel-lead-vpx.cnn
2022 would have been a good time to have this discussion with Biden about being a one term president, and letting a new candidate to be selected through a normal primary process.
Arazi
(7,694 posts)😂
Feel free to grab the link and replay it around here - obviously I’m not getting through lol…
And yep, I bet the ambitious younger Dems like Whitmer, Newsom, Shapiro etc would have happily participated in a primary but it would have been political suicide to try to usurp Joe when he had already been anointed by the party powerbrokers
crimycarny
(1,767 posts)And WON!! Look in the mirror lady!
I used to admire Nancy so much, now I despise her.
Jeezus Christ, look at who the GOP’s candidate was! An old, crazy, incompetent, convicted felon who we all saw incite an insurrection on National TV. And somehow it’s JOE BIDEN’s fault?????
Maybe the Democratic “machine” (of which Nancy is part of) should be smarter about messaging.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)Maybe we should learn to support our candidate no matter what, like republicans do.
Orrex
(64,983 posts)and a tearing of paper.
Elessar Zappa
(16,326 posts)Orrex
(64,983 posts)yaesu
(8,622 posts)don't lose focus on who is to blame, citizens united, red state voter suppression, russia, china, saudi arabia, billionaires, tRump loving corporate press, a weak as fuck JD, ect, ect, ect
ecstatic
(34,716 posts)Just a thought, since we're out here pointing fingers.
RJ_MacReady
(448 posts)They probably should. Its blatantly obvious the party needs fresh faces and fresh ideas. The old playbook is now obsolete.
JHB
(37,621 posts)If you're going to blame Democrats, blame yourself and the entire "establishment" for having ignored the rise of RW media and having absolutely failed to work to forming an opposing counterpart. The sheer massive size of the RW media machine turns everything into a 24/7/everywhere campaign, and you, as a person who could encourage funding that sort of thing, didn't act to create a counterbalance.
Susan Calvin
(2,245 posts)If nothing else, this is an extremely dumb thing to say. Nice way to shoot the party in the foot.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)She is trying to avoid blame for her own role in this situation.
Susan Calvin
(2,245 posts)The important thing is whether Democrats can successfully regroup. I know I'm fighting human nature here.
Frank D. Lincoln
(894 posts)in my opinion the reason that Biden shouldn't have dropped out no matter what is that, because he's a white male, he would have had a better chance to defeat Trump (again) than a black woman would, no matter how qualified.
Question: How many of our U.S. presidents have been anything other than a white male? Answer: One (and even he was half white).
I've always thought of America as the Cult of the White Male, dating back to the Founding Fathers (melting pot my ass).
Therefore Trump, despite how unsavory of a character he is, was always going to be more electable than Kamala Harris because his 'white-maleness' trumps (no pun intended) all other considerations.
Arazi
(7,694 posts)When it was announced that Biden was getting forced out we were together and we audibly gasped in shock.
Nobody was happy in my circles. We were (justifiably) certain that America wasn’t going to elect a *black* *woman* and thus reproductive rights for women would be lost. Truly lost
Don’t get me wrong, we, I, love her and were impressed Joe selected her as his VP but in no way did we, I, think Americans were ready to have her actually lead
CentralMass
(16,092 posts)PatSeg
(50,071 posts)Biden already felt betrayed by Pelosi and she claimed to be losing sleep over it. Then she turned around cast the blame on him? Politics is a cruel vocation. I am amazed that some stay for so long, especially someone as decent as Joe Biden.
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)is just who called her during the debate and told her Joe has got to go. That's been her story since forever -- since the debate, in fact, when it was reported on NPR during the debate. Okay, her phone rang and rang, the story goes, but we never hear who rang it.
JohnSJ
(98,364 posts)Response to soandso (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
CentralMass
(16,092 posts)rubbersole
(9,657 posts)Response to soandso (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
pat_k
(11,133 posts)His decades of service are treasured. But it was time to pass the torch to our amazing bench to battle it out in a robust primary, from which our nominee would have emerged.
Biden's skill, heart, and determination to overcome any obstacle made him an incredible legislator and an incredible president. But it also led him astray on the final, perhaps most pivotal, decision of his career.
CentralMass
(16,092 posts)DaddyShark
(14 posts)Look I know im new to this site, and I might get accused of being a republican troll, but i'm a working class union democrat voter. It was gonna be a very tough race whether Biden stayed in or not. Do I think some people who voted for Biden didn't vote for Kamala because she was a woman or because she was a woman of color? Certainly. But that's not the main reason why she lost in my opinion. And even though the majority of minority races like African Americans and Latinos didn't vote for Trump, he certainly got a larger percentage of diverse backgrounds, with more of them voting for him than any republican has in decades. Because anytime you have 40 or 50 year high record inflation, it's gonna be very tough for the party in the charge to stay in power. They are going to get blamed for the problem even if it wasn't their fault (which it wasn't because of supply chain issues, the pandemic etc). It's the same reason Carter was a one term president. People get pissed off when it becomes tough for them to struggle to afford things that they always used to be able to afford like groceries, gas, energy bills etc.
Although the democrats changed their message later on, and Kamala offered some plans on how she would fix the economy, it was to littile too late. It's not like trump had any better plans, but they remember pre pandemic when trump was president and they didn't have those issues. And most people had already made up their mind about it after being told by most democrats on cable tv that the economy was good and they must be crazy to think it's not. Yes, unemployment was at record lows, yes, there had been a lot of wage growth, especially at the lower entry level of income earners, but most middle class income people did not see that same type of growth in their wages that kept up with the inflation and they fell behind.
Yavin4
(37,182 posts)Trump didn't offer any serious proposals that would actually help the average person. Not a one. He ran entirely on bashing immigrants, and the right wing media complex hammered home that point on an hourly basis.
Sympthsical
(10,447 posts)She saw significant declines in every single non-white racial demographic.
How is that one not giving people pause that their simplistic white people narrative is not the mindset for the times we face?
mahina
(19,683 posts)I didn't want him to stand down. When he did, I supported her fully in everywhere could do. Something can be a really big dragon also be true.
I understand what happened. I don't see anything above as her blaming him. She's telling us what happened. It might be useful to know.
Yavin4
(37,182 posts)They do not understand today's political landscape. They do not understand that the old ways of doing things have passed. She's a dinosaur and needs to go home and retire.
nilram
(3,138 posts)(Though it's annoying if she's turning on her "pals" but I guess no one's really a pal in politics.)
Over half (or nearly half, the vote is trickling in) of everyone in these United States of America voted for a venal, misogynistic, dishonest, vulgar, racist narcissist.
A venal, misogynistic, dishonest, vulgar, racist narcissist. An incompetent, incurious, demented sundowner.
If Kamala was HALF as competent, ran HALF as good of a campaign, or had HALF the amount of time as she did, she SHOULD have still won in a landslide. IF the USA was even HALF as decent of a people as it thinks it is.
I feel so much less trusting. Over half of everyone I see on the street, or in my workplace, is an uncaring, unthinking, self-interested creep. Frightening.
Meowmee
(8,501 posts)Imo…
Deminpenn
(16,726 posts)Pelosi, Obama, Plouffe, the big donors, got what they wanted. Biden dropped out. Harris was the only candidate who could spend all the money Biden/Harris had accumulated.
If she and the others didn't think Biden shouldn't have run again, they should have started having that conversation with him between covid and the 2022 mid terms. The alternative should have been presented as a contested primary if Biden choose to run.
The only thing I'd nit pick the Harris campaign about is maybe trying to hard to appeal to Rs.
anglesphere
(198 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:35 AM - Edit history (2)
This idea that "if this Democratic candidate just did that or this they wouldn't have lost to Trump" is obscene.
Look who they voted for.
They. Don't. Know. What. Is. A. Good. Candidate.
They voted for Trump. Did he have to be the perfect candidate? No. So why would Kamala being one (even though she nearly was) make a difference?
Trump won because average voters are not paying close enough attention to politics the way a lot of us policy wonks do.
They tune in when it's time to vote, gleem some surface details and then, for the most part, vote blindly and poorly informed.
This is what the average voter is thinking:
"Well, we gave Biden a chance, and I personally didn't notice that much of a difference in my life, so maybe I'll vote Republican this time."
That's it. It's a pendulum. "One party had their chance in power this time, now let's give the other party a chance". If there's any doubt about the incumbent president, the average voter votes the other way.
They don't study politics so they truly can't judge where who they vote for will lead.
They just hold their breath and hope voting for someone different (the other party) will turn out to be better.
Now, if you put a pay check in their hands every month, you might wake them up and win their loyalties every election.
Otherwise, the average voter has no clue what candidate will be good or bad for the country.
And when you throw in the fact that Trump has nurtured a cult around himself, you see why voters are disengaged in the real debate.
They either have not paid enough attention to the political debate to be sure of who to vote for or they have been swept up into a frenzy by a political cult and so are not thinking clearly or rationally.
Being a "better candidate" (even though Kamala was) is not going to help you there.
But cults fueled by lies and corruption eventually run out of steam or slowly discredit themselves.
As soon as the blind passion around Trump dissipates or is countered by something on the Left that is as equally exciting or that grants a concrete payback for the average voter that they can feel in their hands, sink their teeth into and understand, the Democrats will win.
Layzeebeaver
(1,920 posts)the survivors fighting for the last coconut
lord of the flys
this shit has to stop.
focus on the fight
focus on regaining the narrative.
FloridaBlues
(4,515 posts)58Sunliner
(5,602 posts)I initially didn't think Harris could win, but I worked harder for her campaign than any other. I supported her like no other and believe that she ran a great campaign. Why isn't Pelosi going to acknowledge she should have been the candidate? She earned it as far as I am concerned. This is ludicrous and sick. I think Harris did win this and that we are being led to the slaughter by a lack of will and injustice.
AkFemDem
(2,474 posts)This was always a loss. The internal polling was never good. They used Harris to inspire the core party to donate to the DNC and in an attempt to eek out enough of a turn out to save some of the down ballot races. The DNC was very aware that they were about to lose it all, and Harris was a hail mary to try to save at least some of those seats (and she probably DID!)
LisaL
(47,176 posts)I personally don't think replacing Biden with Harris helped down ballot races.
They should have stuck with Biden instead of stabbing him in the back.
AkFemDem
(2,474 posts)And possibly defeat Trump. I'm curious about what happened back in 2023 when the campaign season really took off, but I suspect TPTB didn't want him on the ticket again from the start. When he refused, they switched to plan B and forced him off the ticket, they knew that it was going to be a likely loss but they hoped they might be able to at least save down ballot seats. There's no way that internal polling didn't catch this likelihood though, going into the actual election. Note the reactions by everyone, including Harris- and compare and contrast with 2016 when Clinton won the popular vote by so much. There's a reason we don't see that level of shock and devastation. This was absolutely expected.
I know as far back as February, I was working on a local ballot measure, and our state democrats were voicing serious concerns about what was going to happen this year- they were feeling pretty vulnerable compared to the past few cycles.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)before the primary. Making him to step down right before the convention accomplished exactly what took place. I don't understand why Pelosi and company couldn't have figured it out. I think we could have done better on down ballot races if he stayed.
Arazi
(7,694 posts)Here’s an interview with her on CNN December 2022 declaring Biden is the nominee.
No other Dem would have dared question her (and Schumer) to challenge Biden.
She’s solely to blame for this. Now she’s trying historical revisionism but some of us remember
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/12/15/pelosi-schumer-intv-2024-trump-biden-jan-6-gangel-lead-vpx.cnn
LisaL
(47,176 posts)At the time she forced Biden out, it was a bad call. It was too late to change course. 2022 would have been a much better time to change course and pick a new candidate through a normal primary process.
She had her hand in both of these things, and now she is trying to avoid blame, and put it on someone else.
Arazi
(7,694 posts)So the Dem powerbrokers were all for Joe deep into his term
58Sunliner
(5,602 posts)luvallpeeps
(1,186 posts)I’ll bet she’d have shut her pie hole and taken the W like a champ.
Island Blue
(6,287 posts)I’ll keep the rest of that thought locked up in a bubble.
Scrivener7
(55,255 posts)My assumption is it's somehow been slanted.
Doesn't change my good opinion about Biden or Pelosi.
If you read it carefully there's nothing in her statement that isn't factual. If it had happened earlier, we might have had a primary. True. When he endorsed her, it did preclude a primary. So?
She's not saying Kamala was a bad candidate. And Kamala wasn't. We all just made the mistake of thinking there were no sexists and racists in our allied voting groups.
Let's just never make that mistake again, OK? And let's not let the Times and its amplifiers divide us.
bucolic_frolic
(49,707 posts)Kamala spoke with conviction, logic, truth, and power.
Donnie waffled, lied, and hedged in a stream-of-consciousness blather.
Donnie connected with his base. We didn't connect enough.
Short blips get the votes of the mass of average intelligence.
It wasn't a literary contest. It was an election. We fought an election with spectacle. There's much to be learned if our leaders change their methods.
Mr.WeRP
(760 posts)Blue Full Moon
(2,006 posts)The lesson should now be learned.
no_hypocrisy
(51,086 posts)
PAMod
(938 posts)The Democratic Party is a coalition. Two primary components are women & people of color. Harris was a big part of Biden’s winning formula - helping drive turnout in 2020.
Anything that might have been perceived as a jilting of Harris would have been a disaster - worse than we just saw.
kansasobama
(1,732 posts)It is questionable if her strategy of ousting Biden helped at all. Her career will have a big question mark. Did she hurt by her long battle to oust Biden.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)I don't think it helped down ballot races. For sure not here in OH, it didn't help down ballot races.
claudette
(5,271 posts)She blamed him for not dropping out and allowing a primary. If Harris won that Nancy didn’t say Biden wouldn’t then endorse her.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)It was couple of weeks before the convention. There was no time for primaries.
claudette
(5,271 posts)I’m only saying what I heard on a news report
newdeal2
(2,271 posts)I don’t agree with this take, but everyone will spin the events so that they look favorable or at least they weren’t responsible for this trainwreck.
sky_masterson
(584 posts)We would have lost worse. It would have torn a unified Party Apart.
Harris was the only choice given the time frame. I would have been pissed if they did that.
Maybe the show would have gotten more eyeballs, but I think the results would have wrecked us.
NickB79
(19,861 posts)It was the Ruth Bater Ginsburg debacle all over again. Step down while a quality successor can be put in your place, or cling to power and risk losing it all.
Democrats need to start running young, energetic candidates in HUGE numbers. The enthusiasm for President Obama should have made that abundantly clear. If we want to capture young voters, we need to run young candidates.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)Why didn't that make a difference?
NickB79
(19,861 posts)I truly believe this country is still too sexist to elect a woman to the Presidency, as much of a gut punch as that may be.
I hate to say this, but I really believe we need to run a young male candidate in 2028. I wish it weren't so, but here we are.
Passages
(2,549 posts)is responsible. Keep blaming the voters and we will keep on losing.
FDR
Democracy has disappeared in several other great nations – disappeared not because the people of those nations disliked democracy, but because they had grown tired of unemployment and insecurity, of seeing their children hungry while they sat helpless in the face of government confusion, government weakness, – weakness through lack of leadership in government. Finally, in desperation, they chose to sacrifice liberty in the hope of getting something to eat. We in America know that our own democratic institutions can be preserved and made to work. But in order to preserve them we need to act together, to meet the problems of the Nation boldly, and to prove that the practical operation of democratic government is equal to the task of protecting the security of the people.
Not only our future economic soundness but the very soundness of our democratic institutions depends on the determination of our Government to give employment to idle men. The people of America are in agreement in defending their liberties at any cost, and the first line of that defense lies in the protection of economic security. Your Government, seeking to protect democracy, must prove that Government is stronger than the forces of business depression.
History proves that dictatorships do not grow out of strong and successful governments but out of weak and helpless governments. If by democratic methods people get a government strong enough to protect them from fear and starvation, their democracy succeeds, but if they do not, they grow impatient. Therefore, the only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over its government.
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/fireside-chat-on-the-recession/
Ysabel
(2,080 posts)I think she is stressed because of what happened to her husband and I think she just needs to take a break - seriously...
hatrack
(62,196 posts)But what's the point of this? It's over and done and we're all strapped in for the Weimar Amerika funhouse ride.
Preparing to resist is going to be a time-consuming and thankless business, and throwing shit at other Democrats isn't helping.
-misanthroptimist
(1,293 posts)Had the candidate been chosen at the Convention, they would have had more credibility. There also would have been the benefit of creating interest, imo, providing the process didn't take too long.
The media love a good horse-race, after all. Biden's endorsement killed that possibility. Imo, that caused some to feel that Harris was a less-than-legitimate candidate.
LisaL
(47,176 posts)how did Biden's endorsement kill that possibility? Biden is not allowed to endorse his VP? Why do the rest of them have to follow his endorsement if there is plenty of time to decide at the convention?
-misanthroptimist
(1,293 posts)...as your correctly point out. But it does take all the air out of the room and make anyone else trying to run look like a disruptor. So, in reality, it did prevent anyone who wants a future from running.
Autumn
(47,673 posts)Guess what? I am all out of fucks to give since nothing went as planned for those of us who voted a few days ago. You are a lucky person. You can retire and enjoy life and nothing trump has planned will impact your life.
Go complain about someone else. Biden doesn't deserve it.
At this point what does it matter, I don’t get what the point of her statement is, the damage is done, trump won
Turbineguy
(38,958 posts)Trump was clearly the greater of two evils.
the_liberal_grandpa
(179 posts)You should not have spent days trashing the President before he agreed with your demand that he leave office.
You, and other democrats destroyed the Presidents credibility and the credibility of his administration which Kamala is part of.
In hindsight this may have been one of the biggest reasons Kamala lost.
Thank you so much
Beringia
(4,997 posts)
Boomerproud
(8,715 posts)Nt
Polybius
(19,711 posts)Nancy Pelosi has served the country well, but it's time to retire.
alarimer
(17,105 posts)It is expected that the sitting president endorse the nominee of his party.
Anyway, I don't think Biden is to blame for this. I blame right-wing media, including podcast bros, as well as dumbass American voters.
Fish700
(148 posts)She was the only choice according to dozens of posts here and the media.
Trueblue1968
(18,451 posts)
Brainstormy
(2,459 posts)and this, Nancy, as completely unnecessary.
Jack Valentino
(1,799 posts)after she talked Biden into withdrawing,
where VP Harris would be bypassed by the party,
and a white male would have emerged as the presidential nominee...
(which seemed to be the same idea promoted by James Carville, who disgusted me at that point---
but he did go all-out for President Biden's endorsed candidate, I'll give him that--)
all that does not enhance my appreciation of the former house speaker,
but she is pretty damned old herself.
Us older people are not always right.
My position was that a party who did not re-nominate their incumbent president
who was still alive, have not won the White House in many generations,
possibly since 1856.
In the end my position has been proven correct---
but in this particular year, I don't think our choice of candidate made any difference at all,
because the bulk of the people seem very stupid about economics