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soandso

(1,631 posts)
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:14 PM Nov 2024

Pelosi blaming Biden for endorsing Harris

Speaking to the New York Times Friday, Pelosi complained: “Had the president gotten out sooner, there may have been other candidates in the race.”

And she said Biden's eventual agreement to halt his run for re-election — a decision she is considered central to — did not go as planned.

“The anticipation was that, if the president were to step aside, that there would be an open primary," she said. And because the president endorsed Kamala Harris immediately, that really made it almost impossible to have a primary at that time.

Critics responded to the comments with a video of Pelosi from ABC News in which she supported Biden as the nominee in Nov. 2022.

https://www.rawstory.com/nancy-pelosi-joe-biden-2669734252/

I'm sorry, but this is rotten. She forced him out with a threat of releasing internal polling.

322 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Pelosi blaming Biden for endorsing Harris (Original Post) soandso Nov 2024 OP
Sorry, Nancy. I disagree. RandySF Nov 2024 #1
In retrospect I agree with Pelosi Du916 Nov 2024 #52
If there had been an open primary? MattBaggins Nov 2024 #62
Maybe roscoeroscoe Nov 2024 #66
"If Harris were pushed aside for yet another old white guy" ?? Dumpy Nov 2024 #101
Unfortunately, they said what they meant, Abolishinist Nov 2024 #133
what is meaning of WYPIPO orleans Nov 2024 #185
Phonetic spelling of "white people" in African American Vernacular English. Abolishinist Nov 2024 #195
Yoga pants are uniform in East Central Florida. rubbersole Nov 2024 #205
I imagine those will go out of style at some point... Montauk6 Nov 2024 #208
Lol rubbersole Diamond_Dog Nov 2024 #251
I'm white...and i season my food. What category do i fall into? Buckeyeblue Nov 2024 #281
Funny, I have posts with the "word" in the subject line go automatically to trash here. phylny Nov 2024 #294
It would have been seen MattBaggins Nov 2024 #171
Not "pushed aside" Shrek Nov 2024 #234
white guys is all we will get from now on Skittles Nov 2024 #189
Women will never be qualified enough, politically astute, educated or smart enough to be elected President of the US! akbacchus_BC Nov 2024 #242
Other than wild speculation, what's your evidence for that? Orrex Nov 2024 #288
Did he really say that, though? moose65 Nov 2024 #82
2020 Du916 Nov 2024 #94
Hmmmm moose65 Nov 2024 #107
Agreed Du916 Nov 2024 #118
That was being floated around, PatSeg Nov 2024 #175
Sorry, you need produce a direct quote from Biden. "Advisors" don't count. emulatorloo Nov 2024 #303
He said he'd consider the possibility of one term MadameButterfly Nov 2024 #192
Post removed Post removed Nov 2024 #129
Hindsight is 20:20 Du916 Nov 2024 #163
Sharp decline my ass. You sound like a hater. Joe is still a sharp, intelligent man. Trueblue1968 Nov 2024 #165
Very true. LisaL Nov 2024 #183
If he'd had such a sharp decline; then why did he sound fine at the event After the debate electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #186
The over-reaction was just ridiculous. Biden had a really bad cold, I wish his staff had just rescheduled the debate. emulatorloo Nov 2024 #302
Heh I didn't need any reminding! 😄😑 electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #317
... emulatorloo Nov 2024 #318
I think the poster was referring to debating and taking live questions Polybius Nov 2024 #307
You might be right electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #316
I don't think Kamala was the problem so much as MadameButterfly Nov 2024 #199
AM radio for Dems has been discussed since the late 1990s Captain Zero Nov 2024 #212
Rush Limbaugh has been dead for over 3 and a half years MichMan Nov 2024 #243
They don't need Rush BannonsLiver Nov 2024 #297
Neither of which have anything to do with AM radio. MichMan Nov 2024 #300
That's yesterdays news too. BannonsLiver Nov 2024 #319
Al Franken tried it but it failed financially. Still MadameButterfly Nov 2024 #277
+1 pat_k Nov 2024 #206
You may be right about the lack of time. AlanAdam Nov 2024 #223
Post removed Post removed Nov 2024 #2
Post removed Post removed Nov 2024 #3
Dems don't know how to play the game Dem4life1234 Nov 2024 #4
The issue is that hat Rethugs play dirty Farmgirl1961 Nov 2024 #15
My mom (rip) partly grew up in a sort of tough neighborhood in NYC... electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #190
Some Dems know how to play dirty inside their camp but Skya Rhen Nov 2024 #299
THIS onecaliberal Nov 2024 #254
I admire Speaker Pelosi tremendously but I think she should not have spooky3 Nov 2024 #5
And not now Lulu KC Nov 2024 #75
Agree. Kind of strange. She's smart, been around. etc electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #188
She may have passed her expiration date... Hope22 Nov 2024 #194
Post removed Post removed Nov 2024 #6
Just wow MustLoveBeagles Nov 2024 #7
And that is what pisses me the hell off Dem4life1234 Nov 2024 #18
That's disappointing. Ocelot II Nov 2024 #8
Thanks for nothing! BluenFLA Nov 2024 #9
"Nancy Pelosi" texted me a couple of times... Alephy Nov 2024 #10
Foolish! They are succeeding in having us eat our own. Jit423 Nov 2024 #11
Maybe Woodwizard Nov 2024 #12
This is getting insane. ananda Nov 2024 #13
I'll say MustLoveBeagles Nov 2024 #16
it definitely doesn't help, and she's had a successful enough career that she should hold her tongue cadoman Nov 2024 #79
Well said. nt akbacchus_BC Nov 2024 #245
Biden should have never sought reelection, but after his late exit we were basically stuck with Harris. tritsofme Nov 2024 #14
Even if we couldn't have a primary due to time, we still had last cycles results to fall back to. Lancero Nov 2024 #74
Biden ran away with 2020, it was barely ever a competitive race, it was over after South Carolina. tritsofme Nov 2024 #83
Not asking about President. Asking about potential picks for VP's. Lancero Nov 2024 #96
I think Harris was a fine vice president and helped the ticket in 2020. tritsofme Nov 2024 #217
I think she was a great candidate. It's the electorate that failed. ificandream Nov 2024 #92
Stuck? Seriously?? After he CHOSE her as his running mate and presidential partner as the "last in the room"? ancianita Nov 2024 #168
Yes, that's exactly how I felt. We had no choice but to run Harris. tritsofme Nov 2024 #218
Incredibly disappointing! Mme. Defarge Nov 2024 #17
The MSM was relentless. luvallpeeps Nov 2024 #89
I was disappointed when his own people called for him to step down. Yes, the debate was painful to watch but that akbacchus_BC Nov 2024 #249
She pushed him out. Is this the onion. Emile Nov 2024 #19
Yes, she pushed him out, and now tries to avoid responsibility for the outcome. LisaL Nov 2024 #58
Not Only Was She One of the Orchestrators Of Biden Stepping Aside hotellanai1986 Nov 2024 #198
Pelosi should retire. Self Esteem Nov 2024 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author iemanja Nov 2024 #21
That is CLEARLY what she was saying, WTF krawhitham Nov 2024 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author iemanja Nov 2024 #38
RIGHT krawhitham Nov 2024 #40
Fair enough. I stand corrected. iemanja Nov 2024 #47
Joe endorsed Harris seconds after he withdrew, forcing everyone else to follow suit krawhitham Nov 2024 #45
Why would he not endorse his own VP? LisaL Nov 2024 #50
To allow the Party as a whole to chose a candidate Zeitghost Nov 2024 #106
There was no time for a party as a whole to chose a candidate. LisaL Nov 2024 #108
I think he may have been quick to endorse her early because Obama did NOT do the same with his VP... thesquanderer Nov 2024 #196
Despicable displacedvermoter Nov 2024 #22
She doesn't want to accept her own responsibility for LisaL Nov 2024 #23
Democrats forced Biden to drop out. hadEnuf Nov 2024 #103
Lawrence O'Donnell said that repeatedly PatSeg Nov 2024 #181
With all due respect to everyone, I'm sick of the Biden Bashing. Really sick of it. Joinfortmill Nov 2024 #24
So am I MustLoveBeagles Nov 2024 #27
So am I. Joe did an amazing job pulling this country out of the toilet trump left us in. The only thing that should LoisB Nov 2024 #33
Maybe President Newsom COL Mustard Nov 2024 #37
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2024 #224
If you ask me, Nancy Pelosi should have pressured Joe Biden not to run for re-election in the first place In It to Win It Nov 2024 #25
Pelosi and Schumer agreed that Biden was our nominee 12/22 Arazi Nov 2024 #84
That's because she was the one behind forcing Joe out, and now does not what the backlash, so she blaming others krawhitham Nov 2024 #26
She put the final knife to Joes back, and is scrambling to escape now that everyone is reaching for a fork. Lancero Nov 2024 #36
I strongly agree that President Biden should not have run for a second term. tman Nov 2024 #28
Hindsight is always 20-20. LisaL Nov 2024 #237
Even if there was substance to what she says Dave says Nov 2024 #29
Unfortunately she is saying what everyone is thinking. It's bad timing, but not wrong. Pisces Nov 2024 #34
Not everyone n/t Lulu KC Nov 2024 #140
Pelosi should retire standingtall Nov 2024 #30
She did more to protect us from Trump last time. How about she not retire LizBeth Nov 2024 #43
Pelosi is 84 years old standingtall Nov 2024 #49
Not president and doing fine and the one in there not a younger gen LizBeth Nov 2024 #119
My feelings exactly. LisaL Nov 2024 #44
WTF? She's blaming both Biden and Harris for the loss. StarryNite Nov 2024 #31
It's the truth Zeitghost Nov 2024 #54
If Harris had been passed over as replacement, we would not have marybourg Nov 2024 #68
Sure we would Zeitghost Nov 2024 #97
Solid vetting process? LisaL Nov 2024 #99
At the convention Zeitghost Nov 2024 #102
Convention was scheduled after a deadline to get on the ballot in OH. LisaL Nov 2024 #104
You are seriously underinformed Zeitghost Nov 2024 #121
This message was self-deleted by its author Lulu KC Nov 2024 #126
What you said Zeitghost Nov 2024 #127
This message was self-deleted by its author Lulu KC Nov 2024 #130
OH deadline was extended, but the law wouldn't have taken an effect in 2024, because extension was LisaL Nov 2024 #135
Dream on. Bypassing Harris would've splintered the party and lost the Black vote. brush Nov 2024 #178
Biden rebuffed all attempts to convince him early Zeitghost Nov 2024 #182
Listen up. I said a whole party primary in '22 where Harris would've sunk or swam like other candidates. brush Nov 2024 #187
This black woman would no longer identify as a democrat. And I know plenty of other black women that feel that way tulipsandroses Nov 2024 #207
I'm sure that will work out well Zeitghost Nov 2024 #209
Seems like you are making all kinds of assumptions there. If you want to know my other intentions. Ask. Don't assume. tulipsandroses Nov 2024 #214
The VP was the normal, logical and highly qualified candidate to replace a departing Pres. marybourg Nov 2024 #105
A primary is not passing someone over. white_wolf Nov 2024 #191
There was no time for a primary, when Biden was forced to drop out. LisaL Nov 2024 #193
Strongly disagree. To not choose the sitting marybourg Nov 2024 #197
This isn't about DEI scores Zeitghost Nov 2024 #211
I don't think it would be called "passed over" Polybius Nov 2024 #309
This isn't "advice" Lulu KC Nov 2024 #85
It's the Nancy I know and love Zeitghost Nov 2024 #93
I am not challenging her comments Lulu KC Nov 2024 #114
The time for the truth Zeitghost Nov 2024 #124
Good night Lulu KC Nov 2024 #138
Who would you have picked as our candidate? StarryNite Nov 2024 #117
Ideally Zeitghost Nov 2024 #122
If the candidate was selected at the convention by whatever process, LisaL Nov 2024 #132
The deadline was moved Zeitghost Nov 2024 #134
It was not moved quickly enough. The old date would have been still in place in 2024. LisaL Nov 2024 #139
Yes it was, it's been covered over and over Zeitghost Nov 2024 #145
Maybe Pelosi should blame herself for forcing him out when it was too late to do so. LisaL Nov 2024 #149
Internal polls had Biden losing bad Zeitghost Nov 2024 #162
We don't have access to internal polling, unless you are a party insider. DiamondShark Nov 2024 #312
I respectfully disagree. StarryNite Nov 2024 #113
My thoughts, as well soandso Nov 2024 #137
Biden was certainly NOT mentally declining Deminpenn Nov 2024 #227
While I agree with you re his mental moonscape Nov 2024 #291
Unfortunately, we were put in a position where she was the most convenient option In It to Win It Nov 2024 #176
People will be feasting on COL Mustard Nov 2024 #35
I think she is probably correct and I loved Harris and she ran an excellent LizBeth Nov 2024 #39
I guess she hasn't done enough. onecaliberal Nov 2024 #41
oh man....thank you stillcool Nov 2024 #57
IIt is also raw story. niyad Nov 2024 #42
From the NYT soandso Nov 2024 #100
I wll wait for the actual piece. niyad Nov 2024 #109
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/08/us/politics/pelosi-harris-biden-open-primary.html soandso Nov 2024 #116
I can't believe how many are trashing Nancy Pelosi. This is upside Pisces Nov 2024 #46
The truth is, she played a big role in what happened. LisaL Nov 2024 #48
People here Zeitghost Nov 2024 #59
Neither Biden nor Harris deserve this in the least. yorkster Nov 2024 #72
Just like it wasn't helpful for her to force Biden out LisaL Nov 2024 #76
I hated the way it happened, but don't know yorkster Nov 2024 #136
This is beyond unhelpful. The Unmitigated Gall Nov 2024 #51
It was calculated. She knew exactly who to run to in order to yet again bash Joe. bovine6 Nov 2024 #161
Well, of course she knew. LisaL Nov 2024 #170
Yet everyone says how the Dems can't get their messaging out. They have the media on speed dial Skya Rhen Nov 2024 #301
Dems... Ollie Garkie Nov 2024 #53
No, Rs do not march in lockstep soandso Nov 2024 #144
Yes, they do. Karasu Nov 2024 #173
I disagree soandso Nov 2024 #177
You forget the details of how and why that happened. Karasu Nov 2024 #184
Done? They very well may have the trifecta. I wish we were that "done". jimfields33 Nov 2024 #252
Look like they were speaking about moderate Rs being done within their party. DiamondShark Nov 2024 #314
Seems those moderates vote for the reicht. onecaliberal Nov 2024 #257
I actually agree with her. Xolodno Nov 2024 #55
Trump doesn't care he is term limited. LisaL Nov 2024 #63
Hence why Biden should have stated right after he took office that he was a one termer. Xolodno Nov 2024 #78
Well, clearly in retrospect, we would have been better off if we had a competitive primary. LisaL Nov 2024 #112
I think it was, in terms of football, a Hail Mary. Xolodno Nov 2024 #142
In 2022, she and Schumer agreed that Biden should run for re-election. LisaL Nov 2024 #156
Going to need a link for that. Xolodno Nov 2024 #164
Well, then the proper time to act on those worries would have been in 2022. LisaL Nov 2024 #167
Pelosi and Schumer both said Biden's the nominee 12/22 Arazi Nov 2024 #255
I love your patience and tenacity for stating the facts. Well done. NT akbacchus_BC Nov 2024 #266
But Democrats lost the year that LBJ decided not to run again (1968) Polybius Nov 2024 #311
True. Xolodno Nov 2024 #321
The Only Way We Win Chicagogrl1 Nov 2024 #56
The repubs Will SoCalDavidS Nov 2024 #73
Yep. LisaL Nov 2024 #77
60% of Republicans are MAGA cultists. Elessar Zappa Nov 2024 #263
Oh, Nancy..... WVGal1963 Nov 2024 #60
I really thought Harris ran a perfect campaign crushed him in the debate Tribetime Nov 2024 #61
Unfortunately, LisaL Nov 2024 #65
I wasn't thinking that was the world we were living in I was wrong Tribetime Nov 2024 #70
Well yeah, they were counting on white females not to disconnect abortion policy from the policy maker. 49-49 during ... uponit7771 Nov 2024 #87
Midterms didn't have Trump in them, which apparently brings out LisaL Nov 2024 #95
Agreed. She left it all on the field. 5000% effort ecstatic Nov 2024 #305
Power corrupts AverageOldGuy Nov 2024 #64
Ironic considering soandso Nov 2024 #110
Kamala represents the one cohort that didn't abandon us. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2024 #67
Very true. LisaL Nov 2024 #69
There were nobody better than Kamala. Dave Bowman Nov 2024 #71
Passing over Kamala would have Sneederbunk Nov 2024 #80
There wasnt much of a good choice anyway we went back in the summer... Mark.b2 Nov 2024 #120
WHO Nancy just WHO was going to be nominated? flamingdem Nov 2024 #81
Indeed Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2024 #86
Biden ran and won as a one term candidate to return stability to the Nation. Freethinker65 Nov 2024 #88
I agreed with what she said. oldmanlynn Nov 2024 #90
She's forgotten that she herself said Biden was the nominee Arazi Nov 2024 #91
Yep. The time for any different candidates would have been LisaL Nov 2024 #98
And an open primary might have made things worse. The MFer trump had our number this time. Silent Type Nov 2024 #111
I don't think this would have mattered DC77 Nov 2024 #115
leadership had a choice wichita Nov 2024 #123
And if he'd been reelected Lulu KC Nov 2024 #147
You nailed it. Dems eat their own, they need to stop that crap and learn from the rethug play book, rally around akbacchus_BC Nov 2024 #271
Pretty sad. Our Party isn't in a great place right now. jalan48 Nov 2024 #125
she still doesn't get: it has nothing to do with the candidate AlexSFCA Nov 2024 #128
Because the reicht is so good at that... onecaliberal Nov 2024 #260
unfortunately, we learned, none of that matters to most voters AlexSFCA Nov 2024 #287
A lot of peoples votes weren't counted. People everywhere are saying onecaliberal Nov 2024 #290
I agreed with you up until point 3 ecstatic Nov 2024 #313
Meet the New Boss... MrWowWow Nov 2024 #131
We fuckd ourselves. Biden one and done. Primary. MerryBlooms Nov 2024 #141
she just can't stop herself bigtree Nov 2024 #143
Should have been a one a done. Primary. MerryBlooms Nov 2024 #151
Take care of yourself. mahina Nov 2024 #230
Oh crap. elleng Nov 2024 #146
As usual Dems form a circular firing squad Hassler Nov 2024 #148
If Biden had dropped out a year ago we would have had primaries and had doc03 Nov 2024 #150
They shut out other candidates! Arazi Nov 2024 #261
Exactly. LisaL Nov 2024 #275
I must be blocked by most of DU Arazi Nov 2024 #282
WTF Nancy? The "other side" ran with and old, crazy, felon and rapist crimycarny Nov 2024 #152
So true. LisaL Nov 2024 #153
Maybe Nancy could have done something more substantive than a snarky clap Orrex Nov 2024 #154
What do you think she could've done? Elessar Zappa Nov 2024 #246
She could have refrained from armchair quarterbacking in the immediate aftermath of the election Orrex Nov 2024 #286
Members of the Democratic party are feeding on each other, its a stage of grief yaesu Nov 2024 #155
Maybe it's time for Pelosi and Schumer to retire as well ecstatic Nov 2024 #157
Honestly RJ_MacReady Nov 2024 #296
Bad take, Nan. JHB Nov 2024 #158
Will the circular firing squad never end? Susan Calvin Nov 2024 #159
That's what we are famous for, why stop now? LisaL Nov 2024 #166
The important thing is not whether she gets blamed or not. Susan Calvin Nov 2024 #169
I sense, rightly or wrongly, that this is an extremely unpopular sentiment to express at DU, however, Frank D. Lincoln Nov 2024 #160
Not unpopular with the repro rights groups I am in Arazi Nov 2024 #265
Take responsibity for your own actions forner Speaker Pelosi. CentralMass Nov 2024 #172
Talk about rubbing salt into the wound PatSeg Nov 2024 #179
What I want to know ucrdem Nov 2024 #174
Can't you keep your mouth shut Pelosi. JohnSJ Nov 2024 #180
Post removed Post removed Nov 2024 #200
I dont agree with it all but you spoke some truths in thst rant. CentralMass Nov 2024 #201
A broken clock is right twice a day. rubbersole Nov 2024 #202
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2024 #203
Biden's decision to run for another term was a terrible, and tragic, mistake. pat_k Nov 2024 #204
I disagree. I think forcing him out was the mistake. CentralMass Nov 2024 #219
The reason we lost is simple DaddyShark Nov 2024 #210
She lost bc White people are anxious about a diversifying America. Yavin4 Nov 2024 #216
White people are the only racial demographic Harris made gains in Sympthsical Nov 2024 #225
How do you know that she forced him out? mahina Nov 2024 #213
Nancy, like a lot pros in DC, is completely out of touch with modern politics Yavin4 Nov 2024 #215
It wasn't Kamala, or Joe, or Pelosi nilram Nov 2024 #220
This isn't helping Meowmee Nov 2024 #221
File under, Be Careful What You Wish For Deminpenn Nov 2024 #222
There are no other candidates that would fair better anglesphere Nov 2024 #226
and now we start eating our own young... Layzeebeaver Nov 2024 #228
She didn't have to give that interview. FloridaBlues Nov 2024 #229
Why the f*** isn't Pelosi asking where the votes went?? Why isn't she asking for recounts?? WTF???? 58Sunliner Nov 2024 #231
The votes were never there- are we not getting it yet???? AkFemDem Nov 2024 #232
Then why exactly is Pelosi blaming Biden and Harris for this? LisaL Nov 2024 #236
I think she wanted him out sooner to drive more momentum AkFemDem Nov 2024 #238
The time to replace Biden with somebody else should have been LisaL Nov 2024 #240
She shut out other candidates at the start Arazi Nov 2024 #278
That's what she is doing, trying to avoid the blame for what happened. LisaL Nov 2024 #280
That interview clip is from December 2022 Arazi Nov 2024 #283
We agree to disagree. 58Sunliner Nov 2024 #250
If Harris had won, luvallpeeps Nov 2024 #233
Love ya Nancy, but go ... Island Blue Nov 2024 #235
Times reporting? Whatever. Scrivener7 Nov 2024 #239
The problem is with the electorate bucolic_frolic Nov 2024 #241
Nancy should retire. She announced on Election night Dems would win the house. Mr.WeRP Nov 2024 #244
This just the Johnson/Stevenson all over again Blue Full Moon Nov 2024 #247
WHAT? no_hypocrisy Nov 2024 #248
Her hindsight is off. PAMod Nov 2024 #253
Nancy Pelosi has some answering to do kansasobama Nov 2024 #256
I think it hurt and not help. LisaL Nov 2024 #270
Not exactly claudette Nov 2024 #258
When was this primary going to happen at the time Pelosi and company forced Biden out? LisaL Nov 2024 #273
I don't know claudette Nov 2024 #298
She has her own legacy to protect newdeal2 Nov 2024 #259
If they would have not given it to Harris sky_masterson Nov 2024 #262
I agree with Pelosi NickB79 Nov 2024 #264
Harris is much younger than Trump. LisaL Nov 2024 #268
My honest answer? She's a woman NickB79 Nov 2024 #279
So the top players are going to blame each other? A felon won the popular vote and our side Passages Nov 2024 #267
Damn it Nancy please stop it... Ysabel Nov 2024 #269
I'm sorry, I think Nancy was a great Speaker . . . hatrack Nov 2024 #272
I semi agree with her -misanthroptimist Nov 2024 #274
Well, if there truly was time to chose a candidate at the convention, LisaL Nov 2024 #276
It doesn't stop it, per se... -misanthroptimist Nov 2024 #295
Oh I'm sorry things didn't go as planned for you. Autumn Nov 2024 #284
Pelosi julmur Nov 2024 #285
Yeah but even with all that Turbineguy Nov 2024 #289
All Well and Good Nancy But.... the_liberal_grandpa Nov 2024 #292
Sounds like a smart gal to me Beringia Nov 2024 #293
Her timing is shameful. Boomerproud Nov 2024 #308
Looks like she threw both Biden and Harris under the bus Polybius Nov 2024 #304
Who was he supposed to endorse? alarimer Nov 2024 #306
Remember all those post about the war chest only being usable by Harris? Fish700 Nov 2024 #310
This thread sucks. I reported it for sounding like GOP but it is still here. Boo, hiss !!!!!!! Trueblue1968 Nov 2024 #315
made me very sad Brainstormy Nov 2024 #320
Seems like the former speaker envisioned some kind of ad-hoc primary happening, Jack Valentino Nov 2024 #322

RandySF

(73,026 posts)
1. Sorry, Nancy. I disagree.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:22 PM
Nov 2024

There was no time for a primary and Kamala had access to campaign resources.

Du916

(83 posts)
52. In retrospect I agree with Pelosi
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:49 PM
Nov 2024

Biden ran in 2000 saying he would serve for one term. He should have stuck with that. He stayed in the race too long to allow a robust primary. I like Kamala a lot, but in retrospect she was too closely aligned with Biden and there certainly was a perception held by many that she was foisted upon the electorate by Biden. That is not entirely untrue.


MattBaggins

(7,944 posts)
62. If there had been an open primary?
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:54 PM
Nov 2024

If Harris were pushed aside for yet another old white guy, the amount of dems that would have stayed home would have been at least twice what it was. The damage would have extended down the ballot as well.

Dumpy

(95 posts)
101. "If Harris were pushed aside for yet another old white guy" ??
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:19 AM
Nov 2024

I think you mean, if the democratic party voted democratically for another candidate...

Abolishinist

(2,353 posts)
133. Unfortunately, they said what they meant,
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:43 AM
Nov 2024

and they meant what they said.

In other words, WYPIPO are bad. I see it every day on this site.

Abolishinist

(2,353 posts)
195. Phonetic spelling of "white people" in African American Vernacular English.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:20 AM
Nov 2024

Or, according to another source,

White people don’t season their food, but wypipo like theirs organic, free range and gluten free.

Wypipo are deathly worried about radical Islamic terroristm, but won’t acknowledge that the vast majority of terrorism in America comes from white people.

White people can’t dance, but wypipo love to dance and will dance anywhere.

Wypipo are pro-life when it comes to abortion, but cool with the death penalty and police brutality. Those wypipo will tell you that “pro-life” is just a term to describe the anti-abortion movement, that it has nothing to do with issues of police violence and capital punishment. But if you mention the movement that focuses on State violence against black bodies, they will quickly say, “but what about black on black crime?”

Wypipo have the intestinal fortitude to wear shorts and flip flops all year round. When it is absolutely too cold to wear them, yoga pants will suffice.

There are some white people who believe in social justice causes, but wypipo need special names for themselves, like “allies” or “social justice warriors.”

https://afropunk.com/2017/03/wypipo-explained/

In my defense, I have and never will wear yoga pants.

MattBaggins

(7,944 posts)
171. It would have been seen
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:23 AM
Nov 2024

As a qualified black woman being pushed aside for a whiteman, and it would have been.

Skittles

(163,048 posts)
189. white guys is all we will get from now on
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:55 AM
Nov 2024

it has been proven twice now that women will never be qualified enough

akbacchus_BC

(5,813 posts)
242. Women will never be qualified enough, politically astute, educated or smart enough to be elected President of the US!
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:37 AM
Nov 2024

Several other countries vote for women leaders. The US is too White male dominated.

moose65

(3,358 posts)
82. Did he really say that, though?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:08 AM
Nov 2024

Do you have proof that he actually said that he would serve one term?

And it was 2020, not 2000 😃

moose65

(3,358 posts)
107. Hmmmm
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:24 AM
Nov 2024

In both of those articles, it’s “advisors” or “aides” who suggest that Biden would only serve 1 term. I don’t think he ever came out and said that clearly.

PatSeg

(49,996 posts)
175. That was being floated around,
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:35 AM
Nov 2024

but I remember Biden saying very firmly that he wasn't planning on being a one term president.

emulatorloo

(45,730 posts)
303. Sorry, you need produce a direct quote from Biden. "Advisors" don't count.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:33 PM
Nov 2024

BTW you are not going to produce a quote from Biden, because he never said that.

MadameButterfly

(2,728 posts)
192. He said he'd consider the possibility of one term
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:12 AM
Nov 2024

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:12 AM - Edit history (1)

Which implies that he'd use good judgement on whether age would prevent him from effectively continuing.
The voters trusted him with that. I think it has been shown that he miscalculated.

Response to Du916 (Reply #52)

Du916

(83 posts)
163. Hindsight is 20:20
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:16 AM
Nov 2024

I liked Mark Kelly. He needed/needs some polishing, but who can dislike a distinguished air combat veteran and astronaut, married to Gabbie Giffords, who herself is a hero. There could have been any number of young candidates who could have jumped into the race and become viable, I never knew much about Clinton or Obama before they ran.

Trueblue1968

(18,433 posts)
165. Sharp decline my ass. You sound like a hater. Joe is still a sharp, intelligent man.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:19 AM
Nov 2024

How dare you post that untruth.

emulatorloo

(45,730 posts)
302. The over-reaction was just ridiculous. Biden had a really bad cold, I wish his staff had just rescheduled the debate.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:30 PM
Nov 2024

Even with a bad cold, a lot of focus groups came out of the debate reminded how terrible Trump is.

Polybius

(19,623 posts)
307. I think the poster was referring to debating and taking live questions
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:30 PM
Nov 2024

It's not there anymore, so I could be mistaken.

MadameButterfly

(2,728 posts)
199. I don't think Kamala was the problem so much as
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:41 AM
Nov 2024

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:53 AM - Edit history (1)

maybe being foisted upon us, too tied to Biden, with not enought time

A network of Limbaugh-like Spanish speaking radio stations could have done in anybody. Why wasn't this on the radar?
It needs to be countered by some NPR-like alternative in Spanish.
Trump has overperformed the polls in 3 elections. Instead of bashing polls we need to understand how. Last minute lying ad blitzes? Russian misinformation? Twitter? A focus on the mindset of low-information voters instead of intelligent arguments? If we don't learn, we'll keep losing even if the elections remain fair.

I would not have chosen to break 2 glass ceilings given what was at stake, I was for the mini-primary or better yet Biden not running at all. But I fell in love with Kamala and Tim and believed we had lucked into the dream ticket. i'm still not sure any candidate could have overcome this. We need to stop throwing away our heroes when they lose in an unfair fight, and look at the the bigger problem.

Captain Zero

(7,780 posts)
212. AM radio for Dems has been discussed since the late 1990s
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:22 AM
Nov 2024

Al Gore was supposedly going to do it right after 2000.

I doubt it will ever happen. Anyway 25 years too late now, it seems to me.
Hell unless you subscribe to cable or a major pay stream on the internet you can't even get MSNBC.

But free streams like google, pluto and plex all have FOX and Newsmax cranking out the disinformation. Why is that?

MichMan

(14,681 posts)
243. Rush Limbaugh has been dead for over 3 and a half years
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:41 AM
Nov 2024

There really hasn't been a RW commentator who has taken his place and has anywhere close to the audience he had.

BannonsLiver

(19,020 posts)
297. They don't need Rush
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:19 PM
Nov 2024

They have a galaxy of pod cast guys and content creators on TikTok and YouTube that reach more people than fatty Rush ever could.

MadameButterfly

(2,728 posts)
277. Al Franken tried it but it failed financially. Still
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:59 AM
Nov 2024

we need to counter right wing disinformation wherever it is. We think we can overcome all the RW sources with old fashioned rallies and speeches which RW media doesn't even carry, while RW is two steps ahead with new methods of propaganda.

pat_k

(11,083 posts)
206. +1
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:08 AM
Nov 2024

Biden's decision to run for another term was a terrible, and tragic, mistake.

His decades of service are treasured. But it was time to pass the torch to our amazing bench to battle it out in a robust primary, from which our nominee, perhaps Kamala, would have emerged. There would be no "we don't know enough about her." When distinguishing herself from other candidates, she would have had more space to define her priorities independent of Biden's.

Biden's skill, heart, and determination to overcome any obstacle made him an incredible legislator and an incredible president. But it also led him astray on the final, perhaps most pivotal, decision of his career.

AlanAdam

(100 posts)
223. You may be right about the lack of time.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 06:53 AM
Nov 2024

I hadn’t thought of that. But still, the Dem voters not having a say in who the new candidate would be led to a lot of resentment. And if she really was the best candidate, she would have been elected fair and square. Given what happened four years earlier in the primary, I think it should be obvious she wasn’t the best candidate, but I understand why it was politically not possible to replace her, given the importance of the AA female vote.

Response to soandso (Original post)

Response to soandso (Original post)

Dem4life1234

(2,530 posts)
4. Dems don't know how to play the game
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:22 PM
Nov 2024

Already sick of this. She needs to be quiet. Embarrassing. When is she gonna retire?

Maybe if some of these old guard Dems fucking stopped attacking each other and taking it to the real enemy, that fat ass pedo felon, maybe just fucking maybe progress would be made.

Farmgirl1961

(1,657 posts)
15. The issue is that hat Rethugs play dirty
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:29 PM
Nov 2024

Lie, cheat, steal, oppress, prey on emotions, misconstrue, bully and have the ear of the media to peddle their BS. Dems play an entirely different game. Dems might just need to play dirty to get themselves back in the game

electric_blue68

(20,600 posts)
190. My mom (rip) partly grew up in a sort of tough neighborhood in NYC...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:56 AM
Nov 2024

She was an ethical person, who wanted fairness for all people.

But I believe she knew on rare occasions you had to get down in the dirt, and fight.

Skya Rhen

(2,724 posts)
299. Some Dems know how to play dirty inside their camp but
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:33 PM
Nov 2024

not when it comes to Trump and his supporters.

Perhaps if Democratic leaders took a page out of the Republicans playbook and show unwavering support for their nominee, then we can have a better chance of success. Voters tend to view such support as a sign of strength and they tend to shun the party that demonstrates weakness.

They treated Biden with less respect than they would treat a criminal, namely Trump.

Lulu KC

(7,640 posts)
75. And not now
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:03 AM
Nov 2024

She never seems to do anything without a good reason, but I don't know who this is helping right now. I would like to ask her that.

electric_blue68

(20,600 posts)
188. Agree. Kind of strange. She's smart, been around. etc
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:52 AM
Nov 2024

How does this help?
I don't think do.

Hope22

(3,806 posts)
194. She may have passed her expiration date...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:17 AM
Nov 2024

Her treatment of Biden along with Schiff and other top Dems was despicable. They forced him out and now complain about the disaster they caused. I’m wondering about her (P) sanity at this point. Harris did an amazing job. If there were mistakes they were not for the lack of trying. Thy are completely trying to remove Harris from the ranks. Not a good look! Looks like they are killing any momentum the Dems have made here.

Response to soandso (Original post)

Dem4life1234

(2,530 posts)
18. And that is what pisses me the hell off
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:30 PM
Nov 2024

Biden doesn't deserve all this crap. Bad enough the lame stream ditzies attack him, but one would think his party would rally around him. Maybe he would have run if it was not for their big annoying mouths.

BluenFLA

(197 posts)
9. Thanks for nothing!
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:25 PM
Nov 2024

She worked with Biden closely. She didn't see he was in decline earlier and waited until June of this year to force him out?

Alephy

(85 posts)
10. "Nancy Pelosi" texted me a couple of times...
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:26 PM
Nov 2024

Nancy texted me a couple of times yesterday.

She was asking me for more money.

Stop.

Too soon.

Woodwizard

(1,152 posts)
12. Maybe
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:27 PM
Nov 2024

We just have to resign ourselves that a good portion of this country is fucking stupid.

cadoman

(1,171 posts)
79. it definitely doesn't help, and she's had a successful enough career that she should hold her tongue
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:05 AM
Nov 2024

It's not like she needs to make comments like this to win re-election.

The thing that the younger folks need to understand about us old timers: we know when it's time to step aside. We don't know when it's going to happen, but when it does, we know.

Biden thought he had enough gas to make it another four years but after that debate, he had to acknowledge the reality. He made a firm endorsement of the best candidate he knew, and of course it was the woman who had been ably serving as his VP. That firm endorsement and her being able to use his FEC account saved us a lot of drama and infighting and red tape.

It wasn't pretty or easy but it put us in spitting distance of taking down the orange man a second time. And as much as I hate him, he's the sneakiest and toughest candidate the rethugs have ever fielded, and Harris matched him blow for blow.

tritsofme

(19,036 posts)
14. Biden should have never sought reelection, but after his late exit we were basically stuck with Harris.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:29 PM
Nov 2024

Skipping over her this summer would have torn the party apart, it just wasn’t a realistic option. Harris never should have been put in that situation, she did as well as she could under the circumstances, but she has just never been a very good presidential candidate.

However a competitive primary would have produced a stronger candidate, someone like Whitmer or Shapiro, who at least wouldn’t have been completely swept out of the Blue Wall.

Lancero

(3,162 posts)
74. Even if we couldn't have a primary due to time, we still had last cycles results to fall back to.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:03 AM
Nov 2024

Could we not have considered the 2020 primaries when it came to picking a VP?

tritsofme

(19,036 posts)
83. Biden ran away with 2020, it was barely ever a competitive race, it was over after South Carolina.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:09 AM
Nov 2024

It’s a shame, but Harris was the only option.

Lancero

(3,162 posts)
96. Not asking about President. Asking about potential picks for VP's.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:15 AM
Nov 2024
Could we not have considered the 2020 primaries when it came to picking a VP?

tritsofme

(19,036 posts)
217. I think Harris was a fine vice president and helped the ticket in 2020.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 04:22 AM
Nov 2024

That still doesn’t make her an ideal presidential candidate.

ificandream

(11,085 posts)
92. I think she was a great candidate. It's the electorate that failed.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:14 AM
Nov 2024

Look at 2016. Hillary was incredibly smart, but she took her victory to be pre-ordained. It turned out not to be. Kamala didn't. She worked her ass off. Between the RW lies and the idiocy of the voters, that's what she couldn't overcome.Just like 2016, we'll never know anytime soon what we would have had.

ancianita

(40,214 posts)
168. Stuck? Seriously?? After he CHOSE her as his running mate and presidential partner as the "last in the room"?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:20 AM
Nov 2024

tritsofme

(19,036 posts)
218. Yes, that's exactly how I felt. We had no choice but to run Harris.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 04:26 AM
Nov 2024

It would have been disastrous for the party to try to skip her, no one even seriously contemplated it.

Biden chose her as his running mate, but Democratic primary voters had no say in our candidate.

She did the best she possibly could, but just still wasn’t a great candidate.

If Biden had decided not to seek reelection a year ago, we could have produced a much stronger candidate.

Mme. Defarge

(8,670 posts)
17. Incredibly disappointing!
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:30 PM
Nov 2024

Makes me wonder if Joe should have stayed the course and forcefully defended his record.

luvallpeeps

(1,181 posts)
89. The MSM was relentless.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:13 AM
Nov 2024

Wall to wall 24/7 with the Joe is a demented, old, feeble man. Never mind the herculean effort to save us from the shitshow he had to follow. He knew what he was doing. Even though fox business had to report daily his great job numbers and the stock market soaring. Sickening. Low info populace, and the people who we’re paying attention got their “news” from the toilet. 🚽

akbacchus_BC

(5,813 posts)
249. I was disappointed when his own people called for him to step down. Yes, the debate was painful to watch but that
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:29 AM
Nov 2024

debate should not have required him to step down. He delivered a great speech the next day. If he didn't step down, he would have been crucified by the so called pro Democratic media, they are relentless. Time was not on the DP side to run a Primary again, VP Harris was the obvious choice. She gave her best but her best was not enough. It all boils down to men not wanting a female president, Latinos for the criminal, Muslims voting for him as they think he will end the conflict between Israel and Palestine (they have a rude awakening coming as it seems they have no clue that the criminal is buddies with Netenyahu), Blacks and other immigrants (especially Indians from Guyana) who voted for him. The ones who will be deported couldn't vote. It will be a rough four year ride, buckle up world.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
58. Yes, she pushed him out, and now tries to avoid responsibility for the outcome.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:52 PM
Nov 2024

NT

hotellanai1986

(160 posts)
198. Not Only Was She One of the Orchestrators Of Biden Stepping Aside
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:36 AM
Nov 2024

She did NOT want Kamala Harris - AT ALL! She didn't like Kamala in any seat of power because Kamala didn't "kiss the ring" of her or Diane Feinstein. Yes, I have been waiting quite a while to sing this truth! All White Democratic women say "Nancy just wants the Dems to win." Well, like most things, this is simply not true. Kamala was an extremely prepared and relatable candidate. She had the mainstream media, Democratic old guard AND Maga trying to stop her from soaring.

And I am quite sick and tired of MSNBC stating she ran an "OK" campaign. It was flawless. I cannot wait until all of the hidden truth (that is actually in plain sight if people 1) remember what Trump has said in his rallies to his base in recent weeks about voting 2) realize that Elon wasn't there just to give Trump money. He "pals around with" Putin (shoutout to Palin)! 3) demand the public see the unredacted report on the findings of the 2016 campaign and 4) demand an investigation into all of those bomb threats where the voting venues were evacuated for periods of time). This so called victory seems like it was calculated to "correct" all of the flaws of Trumps 2016 so called win. Elon is rich enough to orchestrate a voting coup but he isn't really a tech phenom so a bit of the tell-tale signs of sabotage are visible if only people will recognize what they are viewing. I don't want any post mortems until the fat lady has sung on this election and she isn't even warming up yet.

Don't try to tsk tsk at this. Just bookmark this post and hold your opinion until after November ends.

Self Esteem

(2,027 posts)
20. Pelosi should retire.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:33 PM
Nov 2024

If she had gotten her way, we'd have a nasty convention fight and the party probably would have been decimated Tuesday.

Response to soandso (Original post)

krawhitham

(4,967 posts)
32. That is CLEARLY what she was saying, WTF
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:42 PM
Nov 2024

“And as I say, Kamala may have, I think she would have done well in that and been stronger going forward. That didn’t happen, We live with what happened. And because the president endorsed Kamala Harris immediately, that really made it almost impossible to have a primary at that time. If it had been much earlier, it would have been different.”

Response to krawhitham (Reply #32)

krawhitham

(4,967 posts)
40. RIGHT
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:45 PM
Nov 2024

Try reading the bold part

“And as I say, Kamala may have, I think she would have done well in that and been stronger going forward. That didn’t happen, We live with what happened. And because the president endorsed Kamala Harris immediately, that really made it almost impossible to have a primary at that time. If it had been much earlier, it would have been different.”

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
106. To allow the Party as a whole to chose a candidate
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:23 AM
Nov 2024

Instead of allowing insiders and deal makers make it for us.

He was being forced out by the Pelosi wing of the party and I think this was his big FU to them.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
108. There was no time for a party as a whole to chose a candidate.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:25 AM
Nov 2024

Which the party as a whole should have thought before forcing Biden out at a time they did.

thesquanderer

(12,548 posts)
196. I think he may have been quick to endorse her early because Obama did NOT do the same with his VP...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:23 AM
Nov 2024

...when folks were deciding who our 2016 nominee would be. I think maybe he wanted to show, "see, this is how it's done."

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
23. She doesn't want to accept her own responsibility for
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:34 PM
Nov 2024

forcing Biden out. It was too late to have any "primaries" when Biden was forced out. They should have just stuck with him at that point, but they forced him out just the same, because they were afraid of losing seats in congress.
Well, that didn't work out, and now she blames Biden for her own doing.

hadEnuf

(3,073 posts)
103. Democrats forced Biden to drop out.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:21 AM
Nov 2024

The GOP couldn't have done better themselves.

We all knew it could be a repeat of 1968.



PatSeg

(49,996 posts)
181. Lawrence O'Donnell said that repeatedly
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:42 AM
Nov 2024

He was the clearest voice of reason during that horrible time.

LoisB

(9,891 posts)
33. So am I. Joe did an amazing job pulling this country out of the toilet trump left us in. The only thing that should
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:42 PM
Nov 2024

be said is, "thank you President Biden, job well done."

Response to Joinfortmill (Reply #24)

In It to Win It

(10,291 posts)
25. If you ask me, Nancy Pelosi should have pressured Joe Biden not to run for re-election in the first place
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:36 PM
Nov 2024

but no one had that foresight.

krawhitham

(4,967 posts)
26. That's because she was the one behind forcing Joe out, and now does not what the backlash, so she blaming others
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:38 PM
Nov 2024

Lancero

(3,162 posts)
36. She put the final knife to Joes back, and is scrambling to escape now that everyone is reaching for a fork.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:43 PM
Nov 2024

Truly, we do eat our own.

tman

(1,175 posts)
28. I strongly agree that President Biden should not have run for a second term.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:38 PM
Nov 2024

That debate was a historic game changing debacle that many still don't want to admit, but the in-fighting is pointless.

Dave says

(5,077 posts)
29. Even if there was substance to what she says
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:39 PM
Nov 2024

This is horrendous that she’d come out and say it now. Really tarnishes her legacy.

Pisces

(5,915 posts)
34. Unfortunately she is saying what everyone is thinking. It's bad timing, but not wrong.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:42 PM
Nov 2024

This has been said many times on this board.

standingtall

(3,063 posts)
30. Pelosi should retire
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:41 PM
Nov 2024

She has lost her political instincts if She believed She could forced out a sitting President just several weeks before the convention bypassing the Black Woman VP in history would've went over well. Any other then Harris would've done worse completely fractured the party. Biden endorsed Harris, duh what did She expect him to do? Pelosi needs to take responsibility for her role in this. She gambled and came up with nothing to show it. I still believe and always will believe if a spin team was placed around Biden he could've had a chance to recover, but instead we got the circular firing squad and the throw him under the bus team. The best of the bad options was for the Democratic party and it's donors was to stand behind their President.

standingtall

(3,063 posts)
49. Pelosi is 84 years old
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:49 PM
Nov 2024

That is 3 years older then Biden. If Biden was to old then so is She. She should retire now and let a new generation take over.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
44. My feelings exactly.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:46 PM
Nov 2024

They should have stuck with him but they forced him out instead. There was no time to have any primaries to pick another candidate. And why would she expect him not to endorse his own VP?

StarryNite

(11,448 posts)
31. WTF? She's blaming both Biden and Harris for the loss.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:41 PM
Nov 2024

She needs to bow out because she is not helping our party.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
54. It's the truth
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:50 PM
Nov 2024

And we need to address the hard truths if we want to win in the future. Joe should have never run and Harris should have never been the replacement.

Nancy Pelosi is a tough politician that knows how to win. We would be wise to take her advice.

marybourg

(13,338 posts)
68. If Harris had been passed over as replacement, we would not have
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:58 PM
Nov 2024

even gotten the Black woman vote.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
97. Sure we would
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:15 AM
Nov 2024

They wouldn't pass over a qualified Democrat chosen through a solid vetting process over skin color.

Suggesting otherwise is more than a bit insulting.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
102. At the convention
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:19 AM
Nov 2024

Like they did for decades.

We are reaping the consequences of not having a candidate who had to make a case to the public that they were the best person for the job and thinking anyone party insiders chose would get the job done.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
104. Convention was scheduled after a deadline to get on the ballot in OH.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:21 AM
Nov 2024

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:00 AM - Edit history (1)

Which is why they had to zoom to officially nominate Harris/Walz prior to the convention. And even though the OH deadline was extended, technically that new date was not in affect in 2024.
The new deadline wouldn't be in effect. Which is again why they had to nominate Harris/Walz by zoom prior to the convention.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
121. You are seriously underinformed
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:30 AM
Nov 2024

The Ohio deadline was extended. We selected candidates at the convention for over a century. Primaries were gradually introduced, state by state but for a long time delegates won through primaries were only a portion of the overall process and in fact still are with superdelegates. But they rarely come into play any more.

Response to Zeitghost (Reply #121)

Response to Zeitghost (Reply #127)

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
135. OH deadline was extended, but the law wouldn't have taken an effect in 2024, because extension was
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:47 AM
Nov 2024

put in place to late for the law to take an effect in 2024. Which is why they had to zoom prior to the convention to officially nominate Harris/Walz.

brush

(59,413 posts)
178. Dream on. Bypassing Harris would've splintered the party and lost the Black vote.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:37 AM
Nov 2024

I'm a Black man and I know where of I speak. That would've been the worst way to treat the most loyal faction of the party.

We lost. We now we know we live in an even moreracist, sexist nation than we thought. We have to live with it. Harris did a great job after being dropped into a near-impossible situation. Stop the blame game or we'll lose the Black vote going forward.

Love Nancy but it looks like she's lost a step by putting the blame on Harris. Time to step down at 84. She should've pressure Joe to step down in '22 to have a proper, whole party primary. After that disastrous debate performance no way Biden could win, but forcing him out came way too late.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
182. Biden rebuffed all attempts to convince him early
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:45 AM
Nov 2024

Harris was never going to win, she got very poor support in 2020. She plays here great in California but had no hope of nationwide success.

Any group that has consistently supported Democrats by a 80/20 margin at minimum would have supported the party nominee, provided the selection was done in as open and fair a manner as possible. We have now seen the results of trying to hand pick a party insider behind closed doors.

brush

(59,413 posts)
187. Listen up. I said a whole party primary in '22 where Harris would've sunk or swam like other candidates.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:50 AM
Nov 2024

Keep it up blaming her for this debacle and we lose the Black vote if there's another election. And the Dem party can never win without it.

tulipsandroses

(7,095 posts)
207. This black woman would no longer identify as a democrat. And I know plenty of other black women that feel that way
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:08 AM
Nov 2024

Do not assume that we would just fall in line and continue to fall in line.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
209. I'm sure that will work out well
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:14 AM
Nov 2024

Just ask the Pro-Hamas vote how they're doing in a few months after they took their toys and went home instead.

If you'd rather indirectly support Republicans rather than support the party nominee, you're part of the problem.

I wasn't a Harris supporter, but I gladly got behind her. She performed as expected. We can't have that happen again. We need to choose our candidate as a party, through the primary process.

tulipsandroses

(7,095 posts)
214. Seems like you are making all kinds of assumptions there. If you want to know my other intentions. Ask. Don't assume.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:33 AM
Nov 2024

But to clarify your assumptions. I said it then, I would have registered as an Independent. I would have supported whatever candidate the democrats put up this year to try to stop trump. After that , no guarantee that I would always support a democrat.
I would vote my conscience and back progressive candidates in future elections if they suit my needs. I also predicted that as many black women left the party, Democrats would be getting primaried more often, as black women looked to support and promote other candidates than " traditional democrats".

marybourg

(13,338 posts)
105. The VP was the normal, logical and highly qualified candidate to replace a departing Pres.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:23 AM
Nov 2024

To not have chosen her would have been a slap in the face to our most loyal group of voters - Black women. I don’t think they would have been understanding towards a “solid vetting process” resulting in any other candidate. Your opinion may differ.

white_wolf

(6,257 posts)
191. A primary is not passing someone over.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:05 AM
Nov 2024

If Harris had won the primary then she would have earned the nomination.

marybourg

(13,338 posts)
197. Strongly disagree. To not choose the sitting
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:26 AM
Nov 2024

VP, a Black woman, in favor of someone else, would very much be passing her over and a slap in the face to our most loyal voting bloc - Black women.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
211. This isn't about DEI scores
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:17 AM
Nov 2024

It's about winning elections and defeating the right.

Nobody is owed the nomination. Presumptive nominees chosen by party insiders is how you lose elections, as we have clearly seen.

Polybius

(19,623 posts)
309. I don't think it would be called "passed over"
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:36 PM
Nov 2024

I think Nancy was saying if Biden dropped out earlier, there would have been a primary. If voters chose someone else, then it would be legit. When Biden dropped out, I remember DU for the first couple of hours here. We all had opinions on who should be the nominee.

Gavin waited the longest to endorse her. He was reportedly bitter.

Lulu KC

(7,640 posts)
85. This isn't "advice"
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:11 AM
Nov 2024

This is hindsight, poorly timed comments of no use to anyone, and kicking people when they're down. That is not the Nancy I have known and admired.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
93. It's the Nancy I know and love
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:14 AM
Nov 2024

It's only of no use if you like to lose.

The party leadership made mistake after mistake and we are paying for it now.

Lulu KC

(7,640 posts)
114. I am not challenging her comments
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:27 AM
Nov 2024

I am commenting on her timing and how this "advice" is useful right now. It doesn't help anyone win anything except for another "Dems in disarray" headline.

But maybe people like that.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
124. The time for the truth
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:37 AM
Nov 2024

Is always now. Running away from the hard realities and pretending they don't exist is what got us here.

Which is precisely the point of former Speaker Pelosi. Had we addressed the hard truths about Biden's reelection instead of insisting that everything was just fine, Joe was a sharp as a tack and had the energy of man half his age and anyone could beat Trump, Tuesday would have ended up a lot better for everyone here.

Lulu KC

(7,640 posts)
138. Good night
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:50 AM
Nov 2024

I am not saying anything about what she said. I'm talking about when she is saying it. I apparently do not know how to make that clear so good night.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
122. Ideally
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:32 AM
Nov 2024

The person who won a well contested and open primary. Failing that, the person who made the best case for being the candidate at the convention.

I was never afforded either choice, my candidate was chosen for me by party insiders.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
132. If the candidate was selected at the convention by whatever process,
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:43 AM
Nov 2024

how would it mean you somehow afforded a choice in selecting the candidate? Were you at the convention? And convention was already after a deadline to get on the ballot in Ohio, which is why they had to zoom prior to the convention for official nomination.

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
134. The deadline was moved
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:47 AM
Nov 2024

We've been over this in countless threads.

Having multiple candidates throw their hat's in the ring and do their best to win over delegates that represent me at the convention isn't ideal. But it's at least some semblance of a democratic process. Instead we got back room deals between insiders to quickly make the decision, away from the eyes of the rank and file.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
139. It was not moved quickly enough. The old date would have been still in place in 2024.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:50 AM
Nov 2024

Which is why they had to zoom. And if you say Harris was selected through these back room dealings, what is Pelosi blaming Biden for?

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
145. Yes it was, it's been covered over and over
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:57 AM
Nov 2024

Pelosi was blaming Biden for A. Not getting out soon enough despite internal polling that showed a massive Trump win. and B. Endorsing Harris prior to allowing others to throw their hat in the ring, making any sort of public vetting impossible.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
149. Maybe Pelosi should blame herself for forcing him out when it was too late to do so.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:02 AM
Nov 2024

But she doesn't want to put any blame on herself. And why shouldn't he have endorsed his own VP?

 

Zeitghost

(4,557 posts)
162. Internal polls had Biden losing bad
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:15 AM
Nov 2024

Harris did better, but ultimately not enough.

Because the VP did extremely poorly in 2020 before dropping out, has never won a single election outside of California, was very unpopular herself and was inextricably tied to an unpopular administration that she continually refused to distance herself from.

DiamondShark

(1,150 posts)
312. We don't have access to internal polling, unless you are a party insider.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 04:02 PM
Nov 2024

And if you are a party insider, what were the numbers? You can share by DM if needed.

StarryNite

(11,448 posts)
113. I respectfully disagree.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:26 AM
Nov 2024

I think it was very inappropriate for her to go out three days after the election and say what she did. Kamala and Tim and their whole crew and thousands of people across the country worked their tails off and did a fantastic job. Biden listened to Pelosi and the others and stepped down. IMHO what Pelosi did was very disrespectful and completely unnecessary.

 

soandso

(1,631 posts)
137. My thoughts, as well
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:49 AM
Nov 2024

Party leadership, of which Nancy is right at the top, along with the donors, knew well in advance that Biden was mentally declining and should have addressed it with him, PRIVATELY, before the primaries began. There was plenty of opportunity. Instead, they decided to endorse AND finance a second term for him and then freaked out when it was too late so they chose to publicly humiliate him and Pelosi even admitted she threatened him. It's not a matter of his desire and choice to run for a second term, it's that none of them saw fit to prevent it and then backstabbed him at the last minute. It's shitty, ruthless, unkind and was strategically a mistake. I detest it when anyone won't take responsibility for their own actions and blames someone else. She needs to own what she did but she's too worried about herself to be honest.

Deminpenn

(16,678 posts)
227. Biden was certainly NOT mentally declining
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:08 AM
Nov 2024

Did his age affect his ability to control his stutter and ability to express himself more clearly? Of course it did. That is to be expected. Congenital conditions usually get worse with age. That, however, did not mean Biden wasn't still mentally sharp any more than it means a person who has ALS or a similar motor-neuron condition is not mentally sharp. Do you think Fetterman's mentally deficient because he has to use a closed captioning device to understand what he's beng asked because his stroke affected his ability to process spoken words?

Biden could have explained that he just needs a little longer to answer questions and it helps him it he prepares remarks because it helps him communicate more clearly.

One last observation from having a parent in assisted living. There were usually two kinds of residents, one who were in good physical health, but their minds were going or gone. The second kind were residents like my parent who were physically frail, but still pretty sharp mentally. Trump is the former, Biden the latter.

moonscape

(5,482 posts)
291. While I agree with you re his mental
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:41 AM
Nov 2024

sharpness, no amount of explanation that he needed more time to answer questions could have over-ridden his weak communication in a vigorously hot political campaign and environment.

I love Joe. I do. But every time he spoke I was holding my breath, and frankly also straining to hear him. This coming from someone who wanted him to stay in the race because I trusted his leadership and wanted him to continue as our President. But I was wrong. He could not have won with his reduced communication skills.

In It to Win It

(10,291 posts)
176. Unfortunately, we were put in a position where she was the most convenient option
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:35 AM
Nov 2024

She was the only person that didn't have to start from scratch 100 days out from the election. She was the only person that could have inherited the campaign funds and infrastructure. Unfortunately for us, that was the predicament we were in at the time.

In the moment, going with her was the most efficient option we had, and she was the option we could mobilize the quickest without party infighting.

 

soandso

(1,631 posts)
116. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/08/us/politics/pelosi-harris-biden-open-primary.html
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:29 AM
Nov 2024

Pisces

(5,915 posts)
46. I can't believe how many are trashing Nancy Pelosi. This is upside
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:46 PM
Nov 2024

Down world and Trump has totally won. Pelosi is a true blue Democrat but keep attacking her for speaking the hard truth.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
48. The truth is, she played a big role in what happened.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:48 PM
Nov 2024

And now she is trying to avoid responsibility.

yorkster

(2,914 posts)
72. Neither Biden nor Harris deserve this in the least.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:02 AM
Nov 2024

She did not need to express these thoughts publicly. It helps no one.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
76. Just like it wasn't helpful for her to force Biden out
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:04 AM
Nov 2024

a couple weeks prior to the convention.

yorkster

(2,914 posts)
136. I hated the way it happened, but don't know
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:48 AM
Nov 2024

whether Joe could have won. We'll never know but it did not look good.

That said, Nancy should not have gone there.






bovine6

(49 posts)
161. It was calculated. She knew exactly who to run to in order to yet again bash Joe.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:15 AM
Nov 2024

I suggest cognitive decline. Needs to step down and shut her pie hole.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
170. Well, of course she knew.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:21 AM
Nov 2024

The same freaking paper that lead the march to force Joe to drop out. As if it should be up to the media.

Skya Rhen

(2,724 posts)
301. Yet everyone says how the Dems can't get their messaging out. They have the media on speed dial
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 02:10 PM
Nov 2024

when it comes to trashing their own but can’t use that same media to put forth their accomplishments or make contrasts with the other party. This revelation was one of the most shocking that came out during these past three months. Who would have known that they had the media’s ear all along.

Ollie Garkie

(265 posts)
53. Dems...
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:50 PM
Nov 2024

Pay lip service to "were all in this together" but can't work together for shit. Repubs march in lockstep while exhorting us peasants to "rugged individualism". Fascinating.

 

soandso

(1,631 posts)
144. No, Rs do not march in lockstep
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:55 AM
Nov 2024

The GOP is fractured with neocons and other never Trumpers against the rest.

Karasu

(864 posts)
173. Yes, they do.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:28 AM
Nov 2024

The people you're referring to do not even exist in that party anymore in remotely significant enough quantities to matter. Certainly not anymore. Moderate Republicans (and the definition of "modrerate Republican" has shifted greatly in the last 8 years alone--most are still pretty far to the right on a global scale) aren't even mainstream in that party, and I would argue haven't been in a long time.

The Democratic Party of today is vastly more diverse in terms of its thinking than the GOP has been in decades. It is our greatest strength, but also our greatest weakness whenever we're so quick to finger-point one another.

Karasu

(864 posts)
184. You forget the details of how and why that happened.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:45 AM
Nov 2024

Plus, we all know how that turned out.

The incident in question also has nothing to do with the number of "moderate Republicans" or the levers of power they hold in the party. Trump has received more votes than any GOP politician in history. Almost 70% of the entire party believed he won in 2020. I could go on. I have no idea what more it's going to take for people to finally realize that moderate Republicans are effectively extinct, or at least, might as well be in an electoral sense. As far as their party goes, they shot their shot. They're over, they're done. But they're more than welcome to join the Big Tent over here if they so choose.


 

jimfields33

(19,382 posts)
252. Done? They very well may have the trifecta. I wish we were that "done".
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:46 AM
Nov 2024

They are not playing the game right if you think the party is done.

DiamondShark

(1,150 posts)
314. Look like they were speaking about moderate Rs being done within their party.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 04:14 PM
Nov 2024

The GOP only has room for extremists now.

Xolodno

(6,916 posts)
55. I actually agree with her.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:51 PM
Nov 2024

It came out that Biden's age issues were being hidden by his staff. The best move would have been like LBJ and just say he's not going to run again. He got the bastard out, take the win and move on. Let someone younger with new ideas come to the fore front.

And Harris would most likely won out anyway, but she would have time to campaign, develop a message, bring up new ideas, etc. Instead she got three months and forced to use the Biden playbook. She was probably blindsided when all this happened. Not fair to her at all. It was clear Biden was going to lose due to some unpopular decisions, you don't do those in your first term, you kick them to the second when you are term limited.

Newsom and others probably recognized this, hence they started shadow campaigning even before the election, as if they already knew. Good news, we won't have Trump the next time around since he's term limited and there will most likely be buyers remorse. In top of that, the GOP field is rather thin of possible candidates. And the bastard may not even make it four years at his age and lifestyle, unless of course even Hell doesn't even want to take him.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
63. Trump doesn't care he is term limited.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:55 PM
Nov 2024

Just like Putin didn't care. How many terms did Putin serve now?
And she is complaining about Biden endorsing Harris after she helped force Biden out. There was no time for anyone to campaign in the primary by that time. It was a couple of weeks before the convention, which was scheduled very late. Deadlines to even get on the ballot were fast approaching.
There was no time to have any primaries.

Xolodno

(6,916 posts)
78. Hence why Biden should have stated right after he took office that he was a one termer.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:05 AM
Nov 2024

I've been known to be critical and have the hidden post count to prove it. Sorry, but Democratic politicians are not Jesus. Trump was preparing to oust Biden right from the get go and has proven he is a master at manipulation. Get someone new, his entire plan falls apart. That's why he freaked out when Harris became the new nominee, but she didn't have enough time. Again, it wasn't fair to her. Sometimes, you need to know when to walk away.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
112. Well, clearly in retrospect, we would have been better off if we had a competitive primary.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:26 AM
Nov 2024

But at the time Nancy and company forced Biden out, it was too late for that. Which Nancy should have thought of when she was forcing Biden out. Now that it didn't work out, she is trying to avoid the blame.

Xolodno

(6,916 posts)
142. I think it was, in terms of football, a Hail Mary.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:54 AM
Nov 2024

She may have thought right from the beginning he should be a one termer, but trying to do so early on would look very bad. So she kept her mouth shut and waited to see if she was wrong or Biden make the correct decision. After it became clear, she decided to move. And given that she no longer seeks leadership and this may very well be her last term, she is willing to speak her mind. Shoot, she might even be cursing herself for not being more proactive early on. And as I stated earlier, he had staff hiding the problems (my mom is going down hill rapidly, yet my siblings say she's fine...she is not).

At the end of the day, we all make decisions that we regret, but have to live with them. But you can pass down the lessons learned, that's how I see it. I don't blame Harris, she was dealt a bad hand and quite frankly did well with it.

Xolodno

(6,916 posts)
164. Going to need a link for that.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:18 AM
Nov 2024

But I already have questions, why did they have to agree that Biden should run again? Should be a no brainer. So early on, they had some worries.

Arazi

(7,638 posts)
255. Pelosi and Schumer both said Biden's the nominee 12/22
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:54 AM
Nov 2024

In an interview on CNN.

THEY shut out any other possible candidates very early on.

(I must be blocked by a shitload of people here since I’ve now made this point twice earlier on this thread already but it’s being ignored)

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/12/15/pelosi-schumer-intv-2024-trump-biden-jan-6-gangel-lead-vpx.cnn

Polybius

(19,623 posts)
311. But Democrats lost the year that LBJ decided not to run again (1968)
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:38 PM
Nov 2024

They also lost in 1952 when Truman decided not to run again.

Xolodno

(6,916 posts)
321. True.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:49 PM
Nov 2024

But at least she would have an honest chance. From what I've read today, she was blindsided. She had plans for a 2028 run and then got the phone call. Lets be honest, Biden made the same mistake as H W Bush did, spent the second half of his admin focusing on foreign policy. People struggling to make ends meet don't give a rats ass about that.

We're supposed to be the party of the working people, every time we stray from that, we lose.

Chicagogrl1

(510 posts)
56. The Only Way We Win
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:51 PM
Nov 2024

Is to nominate a strong, MALE candidate. Sadly, America will never vote for a woman.

 

SoCalDavidS

(10,599 posts)
73. The repubs Will
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:02 AM
Nov 2024

They're a CULT, and they'll vote for whomever is presented.

I predict we'll see a woman President, and it will come from the other party.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
77. Yep.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:05 AM
Nov 2024

I don't know why we ever thought it was even plausible they were crossing to our side to vote for Kamala. Clearly they were not.

Elessar Zappa

(16,318 posts)
263. 60% of Republicans are MAGA cultists.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:17 AM
Nov 2024

The rest are just Republicans and swing voters who happened to vote for Trump. And there’s always swing voters who aren’t loyal to either party.

WVGal1963

(200 posts)
60. Oh, Nancy.....
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:52 PM
Nov 2024

……little too late. What the HELL do your words mean, now? Are ya kidding me???? Love you beyond measure. But NO NO NO to your opinion on THIS one!!

Tribetime

(6,472 posts)
61. I really thought Harris ran a perfect campaign crushed him in the debate
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:53 PM
Nov 2024

So the Problem wasn't our candidate

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
65. Unfortunately,
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:56 PM
Nov 2024

it was predictable that it would be difficult for our candidate to win over White and Latino males.

Tribetime

(6,472 posts)
70. I wasn't thinking that was the world we were living in I was wrong
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:01 AM
Nov 2024

I can't believe we are not ready for a female President...Only females can save us from this madness....from an old white guy

uponit7771

(92,646 posts)
87. Well yeah, they were counting on white females not to disconnect abortion policy from the policy maker. 49-49 during ...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:12 AM
Nov 2024

... 24 elction but 60-40 for midterms for Trumps abortion stance.

That was some serious mic to get 18 point move

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
95. Midterms didn't have Trump in them, which apparently brings out
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:15 AM
Nov 2024

a lot of Trump voters to the polls. He is the main attraction.

ecstatic

(34,703 posts)
305. Agreed. She left it all on the field. 5000% effort
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:23 PM
Nov 2024

Multiple cities and towns everyday. No rest at all for over 107 days. Killed it at the debate. Wanted to do more but tRump knew that wouldn't help him.

The loss, assuming it's legitimate, was due to the overwhelming ignorance among voters. They have no clue of what they voted for and they've been brainwashed day in and day out for at least the past 4 years. I was thinking even before the election that we would need to address this issue after the election. We definitely need to address it now.

 

soandso

(1,631 posts)
110. Ironic considering
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:25 AM
Nov 2024

Pelosi released her book, The Art of Power, right after forcing Biden out.

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,831 posts)
67. Kamala represents the one cohort that didn't abandon us.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:58 PM
Nov 2024

The one cohort that couldn't be bought, couldn't be bamboozled.

Dave Bowman

(4,884 posts)
71. There were nobody better than Kamala.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:02 AM
Nov 2024

I'm afraid that Pelosi is trying to find a scapegoat.

Mark.b2

(540 posts)
120. There wasnt much of a good choice anyway we went back in the summer...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:30 AM
Nov 2024

Still, going with Harris was the best choice with just over 100 days to go.

flamingdem

(40,251 posts)
81. WHO Nancy just WHO was going to be nominated?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:07 AM
Nov 2024

Did we really have anyone right for the moment?

Gavin Newsom?

I don't think so.

Freethinker65

(11,194 posts)
88. Biden ran and won as a one term candidate to return stability to the Nation.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:12 AM
Nov 2024

I was disappointed when the Democrats decided to back Biden for a second term. I wish he had been challenged a bit. The Democratic Party blew an opportunity to show Biden's strength's/weaknesses early if he was primaried. Once he became the nominee, he had my support.

I didn't watch the debate, but was frustrated how the change of nominee occurred. With Biden deciding not to run, the only acceptable candidate was Harris as primary voters had voted for the Biden/Harris ticket.

If the Democratic Party decided to stab her in the back to go with another white male to counter Trump, I think Trump would have won by an even bigger margin. While perhaps the party might have gained more misogynistic/racist votes, they would have lost votes from Democratic women and minorities (used to seeing white men catapulted to higher positions over themselves).

Harris ran a nearly flawless campaign in a short period of time.

oldmanlynn

(630 posts)
90. I agreed with what she said.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:13 AM
Nov 2024

A better candidate might have been came out of an open primary Who knows.

Arazi

(7,638 posts)
91. She's forgotten that she herself said Biden was the nominee
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:14 AM
Nov 2024

In a 12/22 interview both Pelosi and Schumer shut out anyone else and said our nominee is Biden

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/12/15/pelosi-schumer-intv-2024-trump-biden-jan-6-gangel-lead-vpx.cnn

Maybe Nancy is the one who’s getting senile?

(Yes I’m still bitter she forced him out)

Silent Type

(8,834 posts)
111. And an open primary might have made things worse. The MFer trump had our number this time.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:26 AM
Nov 2024

Harris/Walz was a good ticket and I’m proud of them considering the situation.

wichita

(8 posts)
123. leadership had a choice
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:37 AM
Nov 2024

After that first terrible debate, they should have circled the wagons and defended Biden to the media. Eventually the media attention on that debate would have waned and we could have moved on and Biden would have been our nominee. Yeah he's old but it's obvious that doesn't matter. We might have kept the Biden voting coalition if the Democrats had just stuck together instead of doing what they are doing now, panicking and tearing each other apart. Dem leadership is responsible for this, not Biden.

Lulu KC

(7,640 posts)
147. And if he'd been reelected
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:02 AM
Nov 2024

and was not able to complete his term? Kamala would be our next president. I think he would have made that happen if he had any doubt about his abilities or even his desire to stay in office. He said he had more work to do, but he didn't say how much.

We'll never know. That is my mantra at this point in the week.



akbacchus_BC

(5,813 posts)
271. You nailed it. Dems eat their own, they need to stop that crap and learn from the rethug play book, rally around
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:52 AM
Nov 2024

your own and not oust them (like they did to Al Franken).

AlexSFCA

(6,296 posts)
128. she still doesn't get: it has nothing to do with the candidate
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:41 AM
Nov 2024

and everything to do with how voters perceived Biden’s administration. No dem candidate could completely separate themselves from Biden. In fact, Harris likely has done much better than any other dem could. We would be looking at even bigger losses.

1) The biggest mistake Biden admin did was not addressing illegal border crossings immediately upon taking office. He didn’t need congress, if there was a lawsuit against his executive order, it would have played out in court and the public would have seen that Biden was serious about addressing immigration. 2) The inflation had much bigger and lasting negative impact on working class across every state. Biden was not communicating to the public regarding state of historic inflation and exactly what was being done (IRA did not help); voters mostly heard him blaming Russia’s war and Covid supply chains instead of taking about how to tackle it and how he could use the entire power of federal government to focus on inflation and quickly bringing down gas prices. 3) We need to get rid of this toxic “woke” shit - it is not popular with anyone but the very fringe. WTF cares about f’ng pronouns and profoundly toxic DEI programs in the face of incoming authoritarian regime and nationwide abortion ban.

 

onecaliberal

(36,594 posts)
260. Because the reicht is so good at that...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:10 AM
Nov 2024

Meanwhilr Trump kills a million people, gives scarce covid support Putin, sells our foreign secrets to Putin and they is okay. He committed crimes everyday. But we have to coddle everyone and spoon feed. Nope.

AlexSFCA

(6,296 posts)
287. unfortunately, we learned, none of that matters to most voters
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:17 AM
Nov 2024

the fact that trump won popular vote snd increased his base is mind boggling. When lower income folks were hit with inflation, many never recovered, little mattered to them. Certainly, not foreign policy/wars, national security, democracy, etc. Meanwhile they saw millions from all around. the world crossing the border, offered asylum and.access to US job market and Biden wouldn’t even comment on it like it’s a non issue.

 

onecaliberal

(36,594 posts)
290. A lot of peoples votes weren't counted. People everywhere are saying
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:36 AM
Nov 2024

Their votes are registering as returned, or as not voted. People in Texas who voted in person are saying their votes are registered as returned.

ecstatic

(34,703 posts)
313. I agreed with you up until point 3
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 04:09 PM
Nov 2024

First of all, anything that doesn't promote straight white male supremacy is going to be mocked and complained about by republicans. With the media's help, the rightwing can make any topic "toxic." The issue then becomes: what are we doing to counter it? Are we using our megaphones and platforms appropriately to counter gop propaganda and in most cases the answer is no.

Regarding "pronouns:" Democrats are not responsible for that trend. I think you're conflating our party with what's going on in our society and culture. I work with a lot of healthcare organizations and even the VA has changed many patient forms to include gender identity, pronouns, etc. Democrats didn't force that on them. It's simply the result of how our society has changed and they're acknowledging that change, which is a good thing.

Regarding the "woke shit" that you mentioned: Democratic voters are more likely to embrace such terms and policies; however, none of those things are creations of the Democratic party.

DEI policies are created and implemented by institutions and corporations. DEI helps organizations to innovate, compete and avoid mistakes that could be made by companies with no diversity.

So I'm not sure what you're suggesting... If you're suggesting that the Democratic party should be a hostile place for people who embrace racial justice, equality and LGBT rights, then to my ears, it almost sounds like you're saying democrats should alienate LGBT people and black people in the hopes of bringing more bigots into the fold. If that were to happen, congratulations, we would probably finally have a viable third party in this country. And I would support that third party because I'm not going to support a party that does not embrace justice and basic human rights.

MrWowWow

(519 posts)
131. Meet the New Boss...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:43 AM
Nov 2024

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:39 AM - Edit history (3)

And that's the ballgame folks. Welcome to the new world odor. We got fooled again. The kids are not alright. They
probably never will be again either. We needed President Biden to step aside at least a year ago. Timing is everything. He was a good president. Probably the best I'll live to see. The plan was executed waaaaaay too late. Nancy definitely made the right move, but we ran out of time executing it. Now unfortunately, we and the rest of our tribe will soon reap the whirlwind. For now, we sit around and share this digital campfire while anxiously waiting for the ghost of Tom Joad.
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.
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.
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See you all around "camp..."
.

MerryBlooms

(11,917 posts)
141. We fuckd ourselves. Biden one and done. Primary.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:52 AM
Nov 2024

But, nope.
So,yeah. We fuckd ourselves. We lost the wh, both houses.
So, I'm drinking a littlered wine as usual, don't know about you. You feeling the Joy campaign? Me? Not so much.
I'm still talking to my republican relatives. Just like when Biden won. Nothing has changed.
Still need hernia operation, sis needs heart valve procedure, other sis has had stroke and aneurysm.
Got so much going on right now. Folks So Privileged, they can threaten to leave? Lol
I'm just trying to keep us alive and arranging doc apps, etc...
Omgosh, would so love if our only worry was leaving the country. 😂😂😂

bigtree

(91,709 posts)
143. she just can't stop herself
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:55 AM
Nov 2024

...she helped blow the thing up, and now she's saying she favored even more disruption and division at the convention and beyond?

Her political interests and concerns would have been so compromised by the eventual centrist consensus candidate that emerged she wouldn't be able to recognize them from the moderate Dems who tried three times to replace her as Speaker.

MerryBlooms

(11,917 posts)
151. Should have been a one a done. Primary.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:04 AM
Nov 2024

I have zero strength in me right now. I have to go lay lldown. This hernia is really burning. I need to lay down
I'll check in tomorrow
I need to get flat

Hassler

(4,180 posts)
148. As usual Dems form a circular firing squad
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:02 AM
Nov 2024

Maybe more helpful is to figure out how and why Chump won and do something different. For example, Harris raised a billion in a few weeks. How was it used? To knock on doors and other things from the 18th century. While we were ridiculing Charlie Kirk and the rest of the MAGAts, they engaged porn watching Incels to vote for Dementia J.

doc03

(37,630 posts)
150. If Biden had dropped out a year ago we would have had primaries and had
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:02 AM
Nov 2024

a more electable candidate. When he dropped out we didn't have time to have a normal election
cycle. The Biden / Harris administration was always under water, neither one was going to get elected.
I survived the last time that asshole was president and will survive this one. At 76 today I may never see another
election. It will be decades to undo the damage Trump will do.

Arazi

(7,638 posts)
261. They shut out other candidates!
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:13 AM
Nov 2024

By as early as 2022 they’d already shut out discussion of anyone else. This is bullshit historical revisionism.

Here’s Pelosi and Schumer December 2022 saying in a CNN interview that Biden is the nominee. Period.

Who was going to buck that? Anyone with ambitions (Newsom, Whitmer, Shapiro etc) we’re firmly told to stand down well into Biden’s 2nd term

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/12/15/pelosi-schumer-intv-2024-trump-biden-jan-6-gangel-lead-vpx.cnn

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
275. Exactly.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:56 AM
Nov 2024

2022 would have been a good time to have this discussion with Biden about being a one term president, and letting a new candidate to be selected through a normal primary process.

Arazi

(7,638 posts)
282. I must be blocked by most of DU
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:04 AM
Nov 2024

😂

Feel free to grab the link and replay it around here - obviously I’m not getting through lol…

And yep, I bet the ambitious younger Dems like Whitmer, Newsom, Shapiro etc would have happily participated in a primary but it would have been political suicide to try to usurp Joe when he had already been anointed by the party powerbrokers

crimycarny

(1,766 posts)
152. WTF Nancy? The "other side" ran with and old, crazy, felon and rapist
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:05 AM
Nov 2024

And WON!! Look in the mirror lady!

I used to admire Nancy so much, now I despise her.

Jeezus Christ, look at who the GOP’s candidate was! An old, crazy, incompetent, convicted felon who we all saw incite an insurrection on National TV. And somehow it’s JOE BIDEN’s fault?????

Maybe the Democratic “machine” (of which Nancy is part of) should be smarter about messaging.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
153. So true.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:06 AM
Nov 2024

Maybe we should learn to support our candidate no matter what, like republicans do.

Orrex

(64,937 posts)
154. Maybe Nancy could have done something more substantive than a snarky clap
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:10 AM
Nov 2024

and a tearing of paper.

Orrex

(64,937 posts)
286. She could have refrained from armchair quarterbacking in the immediate aftermath of the election
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:12 AM
Nov 2024

yaesu

(8,622 posts)
155. Members of the Democratic party are feeding on each other, its a stage of grief
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:11 AM
Nov 2024

don't lose focus on who is to blame, citizens united, red state voter suppression, russia, china, saudi arabia, billionaires, tRump loving corporate press, a weak as fuck JD, ect, ect, ect

ecstatic

(34,703 posts)
157. Maybe it's time for Pelosi and Schumer to retire as well
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:13 AM
Nov 2024

Just a thought, since we're out here pointing fingers.

 

RJ_MacReady

(448 posts)
296. Honestly
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:08 PM
Nov 2024

They probably should. Its blatantly obvious the party needs fresh faces and fresh ideas. The old playbook is now obsolete.

JHB

(37,613 posts)
158. Bad take, Nan.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:14 AM
Nov 2024

If you're going to blame Democrats, blame yourself and the entire "establishment" for having ignored the rise of RW media and having absolutely failed to work to forming an opposing counterpart. The sheer massive size of the RW media machine turns everything into a 24/7/everywhere campaign, and you, as a person who could encourage funding that sort of thing, didn't act to create a counterbalance.

Susan Calvin

(2,241 posts)
159. Will the circular firing squad never end?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:14 AM
Nov 2024

If nothing else, this is an extremely dumb thing to say. Nice way to shoot the party in the foot.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
166. That's what we are famous for, why stop now?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:19 AM
Nov 2024

She is trying to avoid blame for her own role in this situation.

Susan Calvin

(2,241 posts)
169. The important thing is not whether she gets blamed or not.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:20 AM
Nov 2024

The important thing is whether Democrats can successfully regroup. I know I'm fighting human nature here.

Frank D. Lincoln

(894 posts)
160. I sense, rightly or wrongly, that this is an extremely unpopular sentiment to express at DU, however,
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:14 AM
Nov 2024

in my opinion the reason that Biden shouldn't have dropped out no matter what is that, because he's a white male, he would have had a better chance to defeat Trump (again) than a black woman would, no matter how qualified.

Question: How many of our U.S. presidents have been anything other than a white male? Answer: One (and even he was half white).

I've always thought of America as the Cult of the White Male, dating back to the Founding Fathers (melting pot my ass).

Therefore Trump, despite how unsavory of a character he is, was always going to be more electable than Kamala Harris because his 'white-maleness' trumps (no pun intended) all other considerations.

Arazi

(7,638 posts)
265. Not unpopular with the repro rights groups I am in
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:18 AM
Nov 2024

When it was announced that Biden was getting forced out we were together and we audibly gasped in shock.

Nobody was happy in my circles. We were (justifiably) certain that America wasn’t going to elect a *black* *woman* and thus reproductive rights for women would be lost. Truly lost

Don’t get me wrong, we, I, love her and were impressed Joe selected her as his VP but in no way did we, I, think Americans were ready to have her actually lead

PatSeg

(49,996 posts)
179. Talk about rubbing salt into the wound
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:39 AM
Nov 2024

Biden already felt betrayed by Pelosi and she claimed to be losing sleep over it. Then she turned around cast the blame on him? Politics is a cruel vocation. I am amazed that some stay for so long, especially someone as decent as Joe Biden.

ucrdem

(15,720 posts)
174. What I want to know
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:33 AM
Nov 2024

is just who called her during the debate and told her Joe has got to go. That's been her story since forever -- since the debate, in fact, when it was reported on NPR during the debate. Okay, her phone rang and rang, the story goes, but we never hear who rang it.

Response to soandso (Original post)

Response to soandso (Original post)

pat_k

(11,083 posts)
204. Biden's decision to run for another term was a terrible, and tragic, mistake.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:02 AM
Nov 2024

His decades of service are treasured. But it was time to pass the torch to our amazing bench to battle it out in a robust primary, from which our nominee would have emerged.

Biden's skill, heart, and determination to overcome any obstacle made him an incredible legislator and an incredible president. But it also led him astray on the final, perhaps most pivotal, decision of his career.

DaddyShark

(14 posts)
210. The reason we lost is simple
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:15 AM
Nov 2024

Look I know im new to this site, and I might get accused of being a republican troll, but i'm a working class union democrat voter. It was gonna be a very tough race whether Biden stayed in or not. Do I think some people who voted for Biden didn't vote for Kamala because she was a woman or because she was a woman of color? Certainly. But that's not the main reason why she lost in my opinion. And even though the majority of minority races like African Americans and Latinos didn't vote for Trump, he certainly got a larger percentage of diverse backgrounds, with more of them voting for him than any republican has in decades. Because anytime you have 40 or 50 year high record inflation, it's gonna be very tough for the party in the charge to stay in power. They are going to get blamed for the problem even if it wasn't their fault (which it wasn't because of supply chain issues, the pandemic etc). It's the same reason Carter was a one term president. People get pissed off when it becomes tough for them to struggle to afford things that they always used to be able to afford like groceries, gas, energy bills etc.

Although the democrats changed their message later on, and Kamala offered some plans on how she would fix the economy, it was to littile too late. It's not like trump had any better plans, but they remember pre pandemic when trump was president and they didn't have those issues. And most people had already made up their mind about it after being told by most democrats on cable tv that the economy was good and they must be crazy to think it's not. Yes, unemployment was at record lows, yes, there had been a lot of wage growth, especially at the lower entry level of income earners, but most middle class income people did not see that same type of growth in their wages that kept up with the inflation and they fell behind.

 

Yavin4

(37,182 posts)
216. She lost bc White people are anxious about a diversifying America.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:38 AM
Nov 2024

Trump didn't offer any serious proposals that would actually help the average person. Not a one. He ran entirely on bashing immigrants, and the right wing media complex hammered home that point on an hourly basis.

Sympthsical

(10,437 posts)
225. White people are the only racial demographic Harris made gains in
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 06:57 AM
Nov 2024

She saw significant declines in every single non-white racial demographic.

How is that one not giving people pause that their simplistic white people narrative is not the mindset for the times we face?

mahina

(19,625 posts)
213. How do you know that she forced him out?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:29 AM
Nov 2024

I didn't want him to stand down. When he did, I supported her fully in everywhere could do. Something can be a really big dragon also be true.

I understand what happened. I don't see anything above as her blaming him. She's telling us what happened. It might be useful to know.

 

Yavin4

(37,182 posts)
215. Nancy, like a lot pros in DC, is completely out of touch with modern politics
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:35 AM
Nov 2024

They do not understand today's political landscape. They do not understand that the old ways of doing things have passed. She's a dinosaur and needs to go home and retire.

nilram

(3,132 posts)
220. It wasn't Kamala, or Joe, or Pelosi
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 05:07 AM
Nov 2024

(Though it's annoying if she's turning on her "pals" but I guess no one's really a pal in politics.)

Over half (or nearly half, the vote is trickling in) of everyone in these United States of America voted for a venal, misogynistic, dishonest, vulgar, racist narcissist.

A venal, misogynistic, dishonest, vulgar, racist narcissist. An incompetent, incurious, demented sundowner.

If Kamala was HALF as competent, ran HALF as good of a campaign, or had HALF the amount of time as she did, she SHOULD have still won in a landslide. IF the USA was even HALF as decent of a people as it thinks it is.

I feel so much less trusting. Over half of everyone I see on the street, or in my workplace, is an uncaring, unthinking, self-interested creep. Frightening.

Deminpenn

(16,678 posts)
222. File under, Be Careful What You Wish For
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 06:34 AM
Nov 2024

Pelosi, Obama, Plouffe, the big donors, got what they wanted. Biden dropped out. Harris was the only candidate who could spend all the money Biden/Harris had accumulated.

If she and the others didn't think Biden shouldn't have run again, they should have started having that conversation with him between covid and the 2022 mid terms. The alternative should have been presented as a contested primary if Biden choose to run.

The only thing I'd nit pick the Harris campaign about is maybe trying to hard to appeal to Rs.



anglesphere

(198 posts)
226. There are no other candidates that would fair better
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 06:58 AM
Nov 2024

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:35 AM - Edit history (2)

This idea that "if this Democratic candidate just did that or this they wouldn't have lost to Trump" is obscene.

Look who they voted for.

They. Don't. Know. What. Is. A. Good. Candidate.

They voted for Trump. Did he have to be the perfect candidate? No. So why would Kamala being one (even though she nearly was) make a difference?

Trump won because average voters are not paying close enough attention to politics the way a lot of us policy wonks do.

They tune in when it's time to vote, gleem some surface details and then, for the most part, vote blindly and poorly informed.

This is what the average voter is thinking:

"Well, we gave Biden a chance, and I personally didn't notice that much of a difference in my life, so maybe I'll vote Republican this time."

That's it. It's a pendulum. "One party had their chance in power this time, now let's give the other party a chance". If there's any doubt about the incumbent president, the average voter votes the other way.

They don't study politics so they truly can't judge where who they vote for will lead.

They just hold their breath and hope voting for someone different (the other party) will turn out to be better.

Now, if you put a pay check in their hands every month, you might wake them up and win their loyalties every election.

Otherwise, the average voter has no clue what candidate will be good or bad for the country.

And when you throw in the fact that Trump has nurtured a cult around himself, you see why voters are disengaged in the real debate.

They either have not paid enough attention to the political debate to be sure of who to vote for or they have been swept up into a frenzy by a political cult and so are not thinking clearly or rationally.

Being a "better candidate" (even though Kamala was) is not going to help you there.

But cults fueled by lies and corruption eventually run out of steam or slowly discredit themselves.

As soon as the blind passion around Trump dissipates or is countered by something on the Left that is as equally exciting or that grants a concrete payback for the average voter that they can feel in their hands, sink their teeth into and understand, the Democrats will win.

Layzeebeaver

(1,916 posts)
228. and now we start eating our own young...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:09 AM
Nov 2024

the survivors fighting for the last coconut

lord of the flys

this shit has to stop.

focus on the fight

focus on regaining the narrative.

58Sunliner

(5,538 posts)
231. Why the f*** isn't Pelosi asking where the votes went?? Why isn't she asking for recounts?? WTF????
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:31 AM
Nov 2024

I initially didn't think Harris could win, but I worked harder for her campaign than any other. I supported her like no other and believe that she ran a great campaign. Why isn't Pelosi going to acknowledge she should have been the candidate? She earned it as far as I am concerned. This is ludicrous and sick. I think Harris did win this and that we are being led to the slaughter by a lack of will and injustice.

AkFemDem

(2,473 posts)
232. The votes were never there- are we not getting it yet????
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:51 AM
Nov 2024

This was always a loss. The internal polling was never good. They used Harris to inspire the core party to donate to the DNC and in an attempt to eek out enough of a turn out to save some of the down ballot races. The DNC was very aware that they were about to lose it all, and Harris was a hail mary to try to save at least some of those seats (and she probably DID!)

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
236. Then why exactly is Pelosi blaming Biden and Harris for this?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:21 AM
Nov 2024

I personally don't think replacing Biden with Harris helped down ballot races.
They should have stuck with Biden instead of stabbing him in the back.

AkFemDem

(2,473 posts)
238. I think she wanted him out sooner to drive more momentum
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:27 AM
Nov 2024

And possibly defeat Trump. I'm curious about what happened back in 2023 when the campaign season really took off, but I suspect TPTB didn't want him on the ticket again from the start. When he refused, they switched to plan B and forced him off the ticket, they knew that it was going to be a likely loss but they hoped they might be able to at least save down ballot seats. There's no way that internal polling didn't catch this likelihood though, going into the actual election. Note the reactions by everyone, including Harris- and compare and contrast with 2016 when Clinton won the popular vote by so much. There's a reason we don't see that level of shock and devastation. This was absolutely expected.

I know as far back as February, I was working on a local ballot measure, and our state democrats were voicing serious concerns about what was going to happen this year- they were feeling pretty vulnerable compared to the past few cycles.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
240. The time to replace Biden with somebody else should have been
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:33 AM
Nov 2024

before the primary. Making him to step down right before the convention accomplished exactly what took place. I don't understand why Pelosi and company couldn't have figured it out. I think we could have done better on down ballot races if he stayed.

Arazi

(7,638 posts)
278. She shut out other candidates at the start
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:01 AM
Nov 2024

Here’s an interview with her on CNN December 2022 declaring Biden is the nominee.

No other Dem would have dared question her (and Schumer) to challenge Biden.

She’s solely to blame for this. Now she’s trying historical revisionism but some of us remember

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/12/15/pelosi-schumer-intv-2024-trump-biden-jan-6-gangel-lead-vpx.cnn

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
280. That's what she is doing, trying to avoid the blame for what happened.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:03 AM
Nov 2024

At the time she forced Biden out, it was a bad call. It was too late to change course. 2022 would have been a much better time to change course and pick a new candidate through a normal primary process.
She had her hand in both of these things, and now she is trying to avoid blame, and put it on someone else.

Arazi

(7,638 posts)
283. That interview clip is from December 2022
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:08 AM
Nov 2024

So the Dem powerbrokers were all for Joe deep into his term

luvallpeeps

(1,181 posts)
233. If Harris had won,
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:04 AM
Nov 2024

I’ll bet she’d have shut her pie hole and taken the W like a champ.

Scrivener7

(54,989 posts)
239. Times reporting? Whatever.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:29 AM
Nov 2024

My assumption is it's somehow been slanted.

Doesn't change my good opinion about Biden or Pelosi.

If you read it carefully there's nothing in her statement that isn't factual. If it had happened earlier, we might have had a primary. True. When he endorsed her, it did preclude a primary. So?

She's not saying Kamala was a bad candidate. And Kamala wasn't. We all just made the mistake of thinking there were no sexists and racists in our allied voting groups.

Let's just never make that mistake again, OK? And let's not let the Times and its amplifiers divide us.

bucolic_frolic

(49,508 posts)
241. The problem is with the electorate
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:35 AM
Nov 2024

Kamala spoke with conviction, logic, truth, and power.

Donnie waffled, lied, and hedged in a stream-of-consciousness blather.

Donnie connected with his base. We didn't connect enough.

Short blips get the votes of the mass of average intelligence.

It wasn't a literary contest. It was an election. We fought an election with spectacle. There's much to be learned if our leaders change their methods.

PAMod

(938 posts)
253. Her hindsight is off.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:51 AM
Nov 2024

The Democratic Party is a coalition. Two primary components are women & people of color. Harris was a big part of Biden’s winning formula - helping drive turnout in 2020.

Anything that might have been perceived as a jilting of Harris would have been a disaster - worse than we just saw.

kansasobama

(1,716 posts)
256. Nancy Pelosi has some answering to do
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:57 AM
Nov 2024

It is questionable if her strategy of ousting Biden helped at all. Her career will have a big question mark. Did she hurt by her long battle to oust Biden.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
270. I think it hurt and not help.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:51 AM
Nov 2024

I don't think it helped down ballot races. For sure not here in OH, it didn't help down ballot races.

claudette

(5,260 posts)
258. Not exactly
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:05 AM
Nov 2024

She blamed him for not dropping out and allowing a primary. If Harris won that Nancy didn’t say Biden wouldn’t then endorse her.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
273. When was this primary going to happen at the time Pelosi and company forced Biden out?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:53 AM
Nov 2024

It was couple of weeks before the convention. There was no time for primaries.

newdeal2

(2,167 posts)
259. She has her own legacy to protect
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:08 AM
Nov 2024

I don’t agree with this take, but everyone will spin the events so that they look favorable or at least they weren’t responsible for this trainwreck.

sky_masterson

(584 posts)
262. If they would have not given it to Harris
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:13 AM
Nov 2024

We would have lost worse. It would have torn a unified Party Apart.
Harris was the only choice given the time frame. I would have been pissed if they did that.
Maybe the show would have gotten more eyeballs, but I think the results would have wrecked us.

NickB79

(19,844 posts)
264. I agree with Pelosi
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:17 AM
Nov 2024

It was the Ruth Bater Ginsburg debacle all over again. Step down while a quality successor can be put in your place, or cling to power and risk losing it all.

Democrats need to start running young, energetic candidates in HUGE numbers. The enthusiasm for President Obama should have made that abundantly clear. If we want to capture young voters, we need to run young candidates.

NickB79

(19,844 posts)
279. My honest answer? She's a woman
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:03 AM
Nov 2024

I truly believe this country is still too sexist to elect a woman to the Presidency, as much of a gut punch as that may be.

I hate to say this, but I really believe we need to run a young male candidate in 2028. I wish it weren't so, but here we are.

Passages

(2,418 posts)
267. So the top players are going to blame each other? A felon won the popular vote and our side
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:48 AM
Nov 2024

is responsible. Keep blaming the voters and we will keep on losing.

FDR
Democracy has disappeared in several other great nations – disappeared not because the people of those nations disliked democracy, but because they had grown tired of unemployment and insecurity, of seeing their children hungry while they sat helpless in the face of government confusion, government weakness, – weakness through lack of leadership in government. Finally, in desperation, they chose to sacrifice liberty in the hope of getting something to eat. We in America know that our own democratic institutions can be preserved and made to work. But in order to preserve them we need to act together, to meet the problems of the Nation boldly, and to prove that the practical operation of democratic government is equal to the task of protecting the security of the people.

Not only our future economic soundness but the very soundness of our democratic institutions depends on the determination of our Government to give employment to idle men. The people of America are in agreement in defending their liberties at any cost, and the first line of that defense lies in the protection of economic security. Your Government, seeking to protect democracy, must prove that Government is stronger than the forces of business depression.

History proves that dictatorships do not grow out of strong and successful governments but out of weak and helpless governments. If by democratic methods people get a government strong enough to protect them from fear and starvation, their democracy succeeds, but if they do not, they grow impatient. Therefore, the only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over its government.

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/fireside-chat-on-the-recession/

Ysabel

(2,080 posts)
269. Damn it Nancy please stop it...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:51 AM
Nov 2024

I think she is stressed because of what happened to her husband and I think she just needs to take a break - seriously...

hatrack

(62,123 posts)
272. I'm sorry, I think Nancy was a great Speaker . . .
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:52 AM
Nov 2024

But what's the point of this? It's over and done and we're all strapped in for the Weimar Amerika funhouse ride.

Preparing to resist is going to be a time-consuming and thankless business, and throwing shit at other Democrats isn't helping.

-misanthroptimist

(1,289 posts)
274. I semi agree with her
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:54 AM
Nov 2024

Had the candidate been chosen at the Convention, they would have had more credibility. There also would have been the benefit of creating interest, imo, providing the process didn't take too long.

The media love a good horse-race, after all. Biden's endorsement killed that possibility. Imo, that caused some to feel that Harris was a less-than-legitimate candidate.

LisaL

(47,157 posts)
276. Well, if there truly was time to chose a candidate at the convention,
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:58 AM
Nov 2024

how did Biden's endorsement kill that possibility? Biden is not allowed to endorse his VP? Why do the rest of them have to follow his endorsement if there is plenty of time to decide at the convention?

-misanthroptimist

(1,289 posts)
295. It doesn't stop it, per se...
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:04 PM
Nov 2024

...as your correctly point out. But it does take all the air out of the room and make anyone else trying to run look like a disruptor. So, in reality, it did prevent anyone who wants a future from running.

Autumn

(47,620 posts)
284. Oh I'm sorry things didn't go as planned for you.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:09 AM
Nov 2024

Guess what? I am all out of fucks to give since nothing went as planned for those of us who voted a few days ago. You are a lucky person. You can retire and enjoy life and nothing trump has planned will impact your life.

Go complain about someone else. Biden doesn't deserve it.

julmur

(196 posts)
285. Pelosi
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:11 AM
Nov 2024

At this point what does it matter, I don’t get what the point of her statement is, the damage is done, trump won

292. All Well and Good Nancy But....
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 11:45 AM
Nov 2024

You should not have spent days trashing the President before he agreed with your demand that he leave office.
You, and other democrats destroyed the Presidents credibility and the credibility of his administration which Kamala is part of.
In hindsight this may have been one of the biggest reasons Kamala lost.

Thank you so much

Polybius

(19,623 posts)
304. Looks like she threw both Biden and Harris under the bus
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:22 PM
Nov 2024

Nancy Pelosi has served the country well, but it's time to retire.

alarimer

(17,069 posts)
306. Who was he supposed to endorse?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:30 PM
Nov 2024

It is expected that the sitting president endorse the nominee of his party.

Anyway, I don't think Biden is to blame for this. I blame right-wing media, including podcast bros, as well as dumbass American voters.

Fish700

(148 posts)
310. Remember all those post about the war chest only being usable by Harris?
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 03:38 PM
Nov 2024

She was the only choice according to dozens of posts here and the media.

Trueblue1968

(18,433 posts)
315. This thread sucks. I reported it for sounding like GOP but it is still here. Boo, hiss !!!!!!!
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 04:33 PM
Nov 2024

Jack Valentino

(1,720 posts)
322. Seems like the former speaker envisioned some kind of ad-hoc primary happening,
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 10:15 PM
Nov 2024

after she talked Biden into withdrawing,

where VP Harris would be bypassed by the party,
and a white male would have emerged as the presidential nominee...
(which seemed to be the same idea promoted by James Carville, who disgusted me at that point---
but he did go all-out for President Biden's endorsed candidate, I'll give him that--)

all that does not enhance my appreciation of the former house speaker,
but she is pretty damned old herself.

Us older people are not always right.


My position was that a party who did not re-nominate their incumbent president
who was still alive, have not won the White House in many generations,
possibly since 1856.

In the end my position has been proven correct---

but in this particular year, I don't think our choice of candidate made any difference at all,
because the bulk of the people seem very stupid about economics

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