General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAs a retired Federal manager, let me warn you about something
Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 04:49 PM - Edit history (2)
What I don’t think is sinking in yet is how profoundly an autocratic government shakes the very foundations of the things we take for granted now. I was just listening to a Meidas touch podcast in which he told people to take note of the current economic figures. Inflation at 2.1%, unemployment at 4%, GDP at 3% And he said to remember those numbers and to throw them in the face of MAGAts when they want to talk after January about how things are so great under Trump.
But here’s the thing. WE know the economy is going to tank. We will feel it viscerally. But the numbers that the government is going to report are not going to reflect that. Those numbers come from federal agencies. Under Trump, you will not be able to trust the rosy numbers picture that they are going to release, if they even do release numbers. And you know why? Because they plan on firing any civil servant or senior civil servant employee who doesn’t toe the line. Who doesn’t take a loyalty oath. All of the principled Senior people who work in government will be gone, and replaced with toadies who understand their role with regard to propaganda.
So there will be no “gotcha” moment for us. No throwing the numbers in their face. Because they will never ever release a single number or report that shows that they are ruining the economy. Or any other kind of negative numbers. Climate change numbers Morbidity and mortality reports from the CDC.
I was there in 2016. I directly felt the pressure from political appointees who tried to control the narrative, to suppress reports, to kill programs. This time around it will be on steroids because they know more about how government operates. During 2017 transition, I was dealing with a high level Trump appointee in his mid 20s whose last job had been managing a rental car outlet.
So be aware. Don’t assume we will even have access to the truth. The truth will be what they want to tell us it is. Think about that as you make your battle plans. Don’t assume you will have the same tools you have now.
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hatrack
(61,194 posts)To say nothing of the warning.
B.See
(3,824 posts)
calimary
(84,607 posts)says ALL you need to hear, OR know.
Roy Rolling
(7,207 posts)I’ve been thinking of a way to mark the “bad economy” that frustrated low-information and outright MAGA cultists.
2 3 4
2% inflation
3% GDP
4% unemployment
Remember 2 3 4
Betty Boom
(223 posts)…was to say those numbers will be useless. We will have either no numbers or no accurate numbers to which we can compare them.
Raven123
(6,154 posts)Stock market, quarterly reporting and such. I would assume that regardless of the stats, people will know if they don’t have a job.
spooky3
(36,423 posts)
LiberalLoner
(10,221 posts)Betty Boom
(223 posts)I believe I said that we will viscerally feel the economy tanking. But that’s not the same as the point I was trying to make, which is when people say oh we have numbers that we can use to prove it, don’t assume those numbers are going to be there as backup. The ruling principle in an autocracy is, who are you gonna believe? me or your lying eyes?
gab13by13
(25,408 posts)I watched Groucho Marx on TV. On his show he said, "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" I laughed because it was a joke, not a joke any more.
not fooled
(6,114 posts)they were able to somehow get lots of people to disregard or ignore hundreds of thousands if not over a million unnecessary deaths caused by red don's mishandling of COVID.
Even mass suffering can apparently be propagandized away.
People will believe what they are being told, and even ignore their own lived experience.
Septua
(2,613 posts)I see a difference between blind belief of propaganda and acceptance of propaganda supporting an existing belief.
A large segment of the 51% needed some reason to not vote for Harris and when Trump made some preposterous claims, like Haitians eating cats, it was a reason to vote for Trump. And because gas isn't $2 a gallon, you got to vote for Trump. And when Trump exaggerates an isolated incident of a crime committed by an illegal, he is the obvious candidate to run the country.
My thoughts are "weaving" and off topic...I guess the point is I never believed Trump or his sicko-phants before 2016, 2017-2020 or 2021 to now. I have no reason to think anything coming from him or his administration will be factual but the 51% will most likely believe it...
bdamomma
(66,720 posts)caused a lot of PTSD, and amnesia with what we all had to go through. I think we will see a lot of death and chaos. And in chaos they can steal.
ananda
(30,937 posts)It's going to be ugly.
IrishAfricanAmerican
(4,185 posts)
FranklinsTower
(10 posts)Betty Boom
(223 posts)But I’m also not just talking about economic numbers. For example, during Covid, Florida stopped reporting numbers on Covid cases. Trump is going to keep his Republican governors in line and there’s all kinds of numbers we won’t be getting out of the states. And because states feed federal numbers they will use that as an excuse for why they don’t have accurate information and so oh gee we can’t release the morbidity and mortality Index this month.
My main point though was to say, don’t assume that we are going to have the factual tools in our hands that we have had in the past. That’s why I thought that Meidas touch Report was incredibly naïve, and felt that I needed to address it.
ananda
(30,937 posts)We can get information from the blues.
LSparkle
(11,807 posts)As in “People’s Republic of” led by Gavin Newscum as he will be known going forward. VIVA CALI! VIVA NEWSCUM!!!
ananda
(30,937 posts)I was just telling my sister I'm so glad she
and her family live in Washington State.
At least that's a few people less I have to
worry about right now.
A Trump appointed judge just overturned Illinois' assault weapons ban. The judge's rationale was a scene from Indiana Jones, when Jones' sword wasn't long enough to reach the evil doer. Now, Illinois' fascist militia can legally carry these weapons. For what purpose?
Deuxcents
(20,147 posts)stollen
(590 posts)That will suffice when the next massacre strikes?
coprolite
(312 posts)Jake declares, "I hate Illinois Nazis"
Raven123
(6,154 posts)
Diraven
(1,092 posts)The media will totally toe the line when Trump threatens to shut down any outlet who reports facts.
luvallpeeps
(1,134 posts)Loudly.
Magoo48
(5,538 posts)
repukes don't care about the suffering of THOSE PEOPLE but when MAGAts start getting hit, no amount of whitewashing the numbers will stop them from squealing
karynnj
(60,014 posts)It is not necessarily lower if unemployment goes up. Those of us in large companies in the 80s and 90s remember our company stock moving up Everytime a major layoff was announced.
In general, it goes up when inflation goes up. Yet in this election, PAST inflation that raised costs was why many saw the economy as bad or at least not good.
However just as the stock market will not show what the normal economic statistics do, the economic statistics can differ from people's lived experiences. What I am rethinking given this election, is whether there are better measures that reflect how people are impacted by the economy. This might include some of the 'softer' measures like consumer confidence and metrics like the median cost of housing in an area vs the median income or the trend of the CPI adjusted average income in an area. (If area is defined as a state, these might be possible, but I don't know of any state that has attempted to measure it's own price index, but they must exist because there are comparisons of cost of living by statem)
What is very clear is that the assumption that each generation would do better, on average, than the former started to become false for non college educated whites in the 70s and 80s and for almost everyone by this century. It was far easier to get ahead coming out of college in 1972 when many good companies had great benefits and were considered jobs for life
The Wandering Harper
(772 posts)but we just kept getting poorer and poorer
jeffreyi
(2,095 posts)Tuition in the California university system was very cheap.
scarletlib
(3,499 posts)I believe if he does even half of what he said he would do then this country will have a massive depression.
They are indeed going to goose the numbers to cover up their failures. The one number they can't fudge is gas prices. But they have no fear here as I'm sure the Saudis and Russians are going to throw open the taps on their oil production and combined with a slowdown in demand as the economy tanks gas will get back down to below $3 a gallon and the rubes will cheer.
Leghorn21
(13,753 posts)Punks like Johnny McEntee and Garrett Zeigler will be grooming their little frat brothers to oust anyone who seems a little…suspicious
I simply cannot bear it, but here we are
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/26/johnny-mcentee-trump-purge-civil-service-deep-state
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-garrett-ziegler-rant-january-6-committee-clip-1726586
underpants
(187,362 posts)He created a non-profit that solely released Hunter info from the laptop. Worked under Navarro writing actual government reports that COVID was planned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_Ziegler
Baitball Blogger
(48,431 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:26 PM - Edit history (1)
The Right gave them a gift when we began to lose elections because they planted the fear of socialism in the minds of many people, especially latino Americanos. And you know what, we should have tackled that from the beginning. We should have discussed how socialism in Latin America could never be duplicated in the U.S., and that the Right had a better chance of creating an autocracy that they all feared.
We can still do it, but fuck, where are the brainiacs with the money to do it on the Left?
DownriverDem
(6,680 posts)the right owns the media in all its forms. We need the rich liberals to step up. When we had Air America folks heard both sides.
krkaufman
(13,759 posts)… relative to RW talk; it was something, but such a small voice relative to the magnitude of RW radio, Fox News, NewsMax, OAN, and now social media targeting.
And now … anyone trying to build any competing media mechanism can expect the full force of the government brought to bear on their other businesses, if not directly. It’ll take some very wealthy, very brave souls.
Envirogal
(176 posts)They came too late in the game. So many of the networks and stations had been gobbled up that they were forced to have to PAY stations with really weak signals to carry them, and even that was limited.
But we do need a podcast system to boost the great podcasts we already have but the following and money they earn just is not even close to the right’s. However, even they rely on news done by others, meaning journalists.
And don’t forget, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. had a show in AA. Ring of Fire.
AZ8theist
(6,555 posts)...and he was mearly part of the "vaccines cause autism" imbeciles.
Now he is full-blown anti-vax of ANY KIND.
Bring on the smallpox!!! 
I'm just greatful I was vaccinated against polio and MMR as a child.
I had chickenpox, but have been vaccinated for shingles. I urge everyone to do the same if need be. I watched my departed FIL suffer with that disease. NOT FUN.
But think of all the Americans who will die of influenza in the years to come due to the "anti-vax" hysteria. Sad.
appalachiablue
(43,099 posts)that a block of radio stations was up for sale. He hoped that a more liberal wealthy person like Tom Steyer would buy them. Didn't happen, too bad.
underpants
(187,362 posts)I’m cementing myself at my current position. I was thinking about moving around in the organization but I think I’ll just ride it out where I am. My boss and I are tight. She’s retiring in 5 years or so and we protect each other.
Car rental. I remember hearing about a similar story about a guy who’d run/owned a muffler shop getting an instant position basically because of his on line support for Trump. Not that running a business isn’t hard but it’s different than a public sector situation and all that goes with that.
I wonder how hard it’s going be to just fire Fed employees and how that grievance/law suit system works.
Betty Boom
(223 posts)Under the current system, it is extremely difficult and requires many many steps to termination. But I’m sure that they have ways that they are planning to bypass that. I can’t really say more than that because I don’t want to reveal things that current federal employees have told me And I don’t want to get too technical here, but there are different categories of employees Such as the senior executive service who can be reassigned at will, and thus could be marginalized and replaced with people who will do trump’s will.
I do want to make something very clear, however The federal workforce is non-partisan. I worked for Democratic presidents and I worked for Republican presidents and my performance, and the things that I provided at the request of the White House and other political entities did not differ based on who was sitting in the White House. But I did operate under certain government regulations and long-standing policies. It is those regulations and policies that they will seek to get rid of and/or ignore. And it will be easier for them to do so, if the people at the top of agencies are in their pocket. If their loyalty is to Trump and not to the Constitution. Federal employees take an oath just as the military does
Beck23
(246 posts)Protections for government employees, and the handbook that goes with them, will be the first to go. We will return to the spoils system.
My guess is that their first step will be to reassign SES employees, as they can be involuntarily reassigned. They will move them someplace where they will be marginalized or basically have nothing to do and no power. Then they will put Schedule C people in those slots.
Solly Mack
(93,210 posts)
Native
(6,676 posts)Blue Full Moon
(1,326 posts)They are going to implement crypto currency. Destroy the economy cause hyperinflation. Musk wants more even though he has more than he will ever need. This is the largest bank heist ever.
Yavin4
(36,615 posts)Every asset you own, your house, stocks, and even cash becomes absolutely worthless over night. Also, without the dollar as the reserve currency of the world, the entire international global economy collapses and wars will soon start.
Yavin4
(36,615 posts)Without honest data, faith in the markets will erode. The basis of the 2008 financial crisis was hiding bad data among the good, and it got to the point where no one could trust the data. So, people pulled money out of the market. That was the genesis of the collapse.
FakeNoose
(36,008 posts)We're never going to be told the truth about how bad the economy is under Chump. We might as well find a way to deal with this right now. We'll be lied to for the next 4 years non-stop. It's just like he tried to lie about the Covid outbreak, until he couldn't deny it anymore.
republianmushroom
(18,179 posts)gab13by13
(25,408 posts)republianmushroom
(18,179 posts)The convicted felon will not last 4 more years.
He has proven there are some above the law, the question is how many.
DownriverDem
(6,680 posts)when they go to the grocery store. They will know when goods are higher because of tarrifs. They'll know.
defacto7
(13,646 posts)
Dave says
(4,974 posts)… intends to increase pain for the 99%. He’s openly declared that. We’ll know when published numbers don’t jib with the pain we and our neighbors experience.
Maybe we turn to vast quantities of vodka, like the citizens of Russia, numbing our pain as we face generations of struggle and declining prosperity.
surfered
(3,741 posts)and just like Biden’s low favorability was a drag on Kamala, Trump’s eventual lower favorability numbers will adhere to Vance.
Dave says
(4,974 posts)Incredible that more than half the citizenry believes Republicans are better stewards of the economy. It’s just not true. What Republicans have become are a handful of talented demagogues who are much, much better at manipulating the feelings of the low-information, slow thinking population into embracing “ideas” that injure themselves while opening the spigots for grift, kleptocracy, and consolidation of power while facing little interference.
Jmb 4 Harris-Walz
(1,049 posts)Betty Boom
(223 posts)I hope you understand that I need to be somewhat protective of myself and my friends who are still in government
Jmb 4 Harris-Walz
(1,049 posts)jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)we got it, already.
Could be the beginning of a new game show.
It's time to play, "What Bullshit Have You Been Fed Today?"
Multiple choice format, only pre-iron-age weapons in the studio, surviving audience will receive the home version.
Identify the following from a news network broadcast, Facebook text, or stand-up comedy set:
100 Points: the kernel of fact which provides plausibility to the primary lie
75 Points: degree of shamelessness/annual salary of the talking head
50 Points: the individual or group the lie was designed to appease
25 Points: the primary lie
10 Points: the lie's contribution to mass psychosis on a 1-10 scale
Betty Boom
(223 posts)But I think the larger part of what I was trying to say is stop basing your plans for battle on assumptions that will not necessarily be true during the next Trump administration. I thought it was terribly naïve of that person on my Meidas Touch To advise people to write down the current numbers so they could compare them to the future numbers. That tells me that even people who are engaged politically don’t really have a clue about what autocracy really means. Judging from this humorous post from you, I think that you do understand what autocracy means but that’s not true for everyone
I’m also seeing a lot of posts here that say things like well “I’m in California or I’m in Oregon so I’ll be OK. Or I live in a blue state and My governor is a democrat.” There are so many ways that the federal government can hurt states and punish states. And Trump is a revenge machine. Sure, he believes in cutting the federal government, and sure musk is going to do terrible things to the federal workforce. But it’s icing on the cake for them that they can economically decimate an entire region that didn’t vote for Trump. DC, Maryland, Virginia. The federal government is the life blood of this region. It’s not just people who are employed by the feds. It’s thousands upon thousands of contracts And businesses that support people with healthy incomes.
mucifer
(24,931 posts)maybe they can.
haele
(13,648 posts)Or if you own your own home outright, get some tools and maybe turn yard space into low-cost storage sheds for your neighbors who are forced to live on the streets to store their stuff.
Unlike the early 30's, this time, we won't need a dust bowl to aggravate the employment crash. We'll have Mobsters in charge, with no charities left to help people unconditionally. Instead, we'll have camps or freedom cities.
Haele
markodochartaigh
(2,221 posts)Bush II. The USDA Horticultural Zone Map was due out in 2005. It routinely shows that the average winter low temperature is warming across most of the US. The Bush administration held the map up and it wasn't released until 2012 under Obama.
And the covid mortality statistics being manipulated under DeSantis was a particularly callous example of course.
Mr. Mustard 2023
(257 posts)Justice matters.
(7,591 posts)And will remain 1984 for a "you won't need to vote ever again" because the convicted felon will "fix it" 
BonnieJW
(2,605 posts)Like even if you leave the country, it won't matter. Every country is going down
Glaisne
(546 posts)either from increasing global authoritarianism or climate change. It will suck almost everywhere.
I too am a retired USG employee, ex- State Department/Foreign Service Officer. My experience while overseas was not as disturbing as your’s, perhaps because of being far from DC, but also because Tillerson and to a lesser degree Pompeo were actually well-versed in foreign affairs and kept things under control from the kooks. One thing I do worry about, is someone like Musk going after federal pensions.
gab13by13
(25,408 posts)but I believe it was a private prison that just promised it could house millions of people if need be.
Just heard it yesterday.
Betty Boom
(223 posts)I have the same concerns and I’ve been trying to find a source to confirm what they might be able to do. I have been trying to stay away from newspapers and social media for the most part until today, so I’m not sure whether or not fedworld has addressed this or not. I do know that I did a little research last night about how safe my TSP is and whether they could in anyway get their greedy hands on any of it. I don’t think they can, but what they could do is change the composition of the board and the board could then put in place rules that would limit how we could invest in the different funds.
If you have any insight into that, I would love to hear it
Ysabel
(2,080 posts)We are preparing / we've been preparing for a while already but we have to prepare more quickly now...
We are getting ready to buy a generator real soon and perhaps some new space heaters too and a bunch of tools...
Unfortunately most of the food that I bought ahead of time in 2020 expired last year and a lot of the extra toilet paper was infested by mice (I had to stock up some because we have no car and we were running out all the time the store across the street ran out for about six to eight months)...
haele
(13,648 posts)We started going into Continuing Resolution mode after Biden's debate.
We're already expecting cuts. Supervisors are trying to paint a rosey picture, but we're already seeing changes in work policies being introduced that suggest furloughs and reduction in both benefits and autonomy to innovate are coming down the line.
Management and Leadership have been preparing best case/worse case for changes coming in January, which means we're going to expect the Worse Case going forward. Hiring freezes, lower level workforce will be contract only, mid level management and workforce reduced and overloaded with frivolous quotas and oversight.
What I'm concerned about is petty internal security sabotaging honest work.
Modern Tech Bro "leadership" believe that the best work comes from employees competing against each other for the biggest bang, and don't care about support or infrastructure. That BS "disruption" idea in the early 2000's has lead to far more failures than the few innovations it produced.
Haele
Thanks for these further insights, Haele
GULP
haele
(13,648 posts)But I've been around the government a while, Military, Contractor, and now Govvie.
When the Government management under a Republican administration starts talking about changes in workplace policy, there's going to be reductions. BRAC. Consolidations. Senior Management retirees with political buddies starting up "small" businesses that just happen to have all the points (disabled veteran, minority owned) to get preferences in contracts. Programs consolidated and "restructured" or terminated because they're "redundant" compared with a program in another agency.
I'm at retirement age, but I need to stay working for at least another 5 years to make 30 years, not to mention take care of my family.
Of course, if they privatize or otherwise get rid of pensions and SSI; or have Crypto replace the dollar, it won't matter. I'm living in a tent with my family after all my possessions of value are sold and my money is gone anyway. Or dead due to lack of health care access and medication I can afford.
Sorry for being pragmatically pessimistic, but the organizations and people behind the GOP at this moment are Plantation Economists and Mobsters.
To them, human life is fungible, money is power, and people in general are NPCs worth only their bank account or entertainment value.
All this being said, we still must fight for hope for a better world for everyone. Even if a lot of us aren't going to be able to make it.
Haele
Leghorn21
(13,753 posts)Living in a tent, scrapping around for edible plants in the nearby forest: you are describing what I’m pretty much anticipating as this Great Experiment is cruelly decimated by this incoming pack of slobbering jackals -
(My one bright thought is, hey, I’m so glad my parents checked out way before the emergence of dump and his minions)…but also, yeah, we’re still here and, meager as our means may become, we’ll be looking after our fellow brothers and sisters as best we can, DAMMIT!! 
Best wishes and many thanks to you!! 
Betty Boom
(223 posts)RIFs. Furloughs. Hiring freezes. No COLA years. There will be relocation of agencies, causing turmoil in the DMV economy, people being forced to uproot families and move elsewhere A lot of that is gravy for them and being able to punish DC Maryland, and Virginia for not voting for him.
And there will be something like the old GPRA effort to try to reallocate jobs to contractors (Which we know, ends up costing the government more — That’s been proven over and over)
Get ready for the shit show. I’m glad I’m out of it
Genevra
(35 posts)That felt like a kick in teeth, even though you are 100% right. Is it reasonable to hope that the MAGAts will "feel" it when their groceries keep getting more expensive? When they lose their ACA/Medicaid? I'm beginning to wonder if anything AT ALL could get through to them.
Betty Boom
(223 posts)I’m sorry I don’t really know what to say in response to that. We’re all going to feel it, them included But they have delivered us into the mouth of the beast, and the beast is all consuming. Once autocracy has overtaken a country, it’s very difficult to regain power.
I guess what I wanted to say is that we need to abandon any old assumptions we had about the way that the world operates. Even the assumption that we will have another election in four years. I’m not going to say that that’s what’s going to happen. I’m just saying that we cannot suffer from a failure of imagination.— and fail to imagine it COULD happen. And then we must plan for battle accordingly.
Hekate
(95,290 posts)Response to Betty Boom (Original post)
ShazzieB This message was self-deleted by its author.
Jose Garcia
(2,921 posts)They were angry because they noticed that their grocery bills were higher.
Betty Boom
(223 posts)Or perhaps you didn’t read all the way to the end. The point is that we should not assume that we will have facts to use in countering their propaganda. And they have already proven that people will ignore their own lived experience. How many people even have encountered a recent immigrant or were in anyway negatively affected by an immigrant? And yet Trump managed to make them believe that they were under threat and the immigrants are something to fear. So if the price of eggs stays the same or even goes up? They will just manipulate the facts and tell them that something else is to blame or somebody else is to blame. They will distract distract distract
Lulu KC
(5,017 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:46 AM - Edit history (1)
It was a major employer in my former city. The morale was terrible. The government shutdowns. The no raises. Oh, man. Bad bad bad. But nothing compared to future possibilities, as you have described.
3825-87867
(1,152 posts)of all the replacement employees and ANY other information that can identify.
Those names must be kept in a number of safe places.
And yes, we're no longer playing by Democratic rules of the last 60 years.
There will be no excuses in the future for "just following orders."
And anyone who thinks we need to take the "hight road" otherwise we'll be just like them, Fuck Off!
SunSeeker
(54,063 posts)
Bengus81
(7,496 posts)we'll just see what that does to the economy and thus the DOW.
Wiz Imp
(2,453 posts)I retired 2 years ago. There is a high level of coordination between the states & Federal government on these programs. The states basically act as contractors for the Federal government. We knew that the integrity of the data at both the state & national level was the most important aspect of the programs. No political employees were part of the chain of command of these programs whatsoever. I bring that up because I still know and have contact with a bunch of people working on these programs. So if the integrity of these programs becomes compromised, I will have have several "informants" available to let me know what is going on. I hope they don't mess with the integrity of these programs, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect the Trump administration to do something nefarious.
I think I said elsewhere and another response here that federal data is an aggregate of data provided by the state. That said, Ultimately, it is up to the federal government as to whether or not they want to release those regular reports. There was pressure on the CDC not to release the morbidity and mortality index during Covid, for example.
And overall validity of the national level report can be affected by states refusing to report their numbers. And so it would be easy for them to put pressure on states not to provide numbers, and then turn around and say oh well we can’t report this quarter or this month because we don’t have complete data
Thank you for your perspective and information though
KT2000
(20,950 posts)back in the day - Reagan administration changed how employment numbers were calculated. As I recall it had to do with military employment. For a time, they presented both numbers but then quit so the new way was the new norm.
Betty Boom
(223 posts)To make comparison of data more difficult
Wiz Imp
(2,453 posts)According to your timeline, it would have been before I worked on the programs but I don't remember ever hearing about such a change. (There was a major redesign of the current population survey in 1994). Do you have any more information?
As far as I'm aware, the employment data from both surveys (Household (CPS) & Business (CES) surveys) have never included military employment. In fact the data from the household survey are explicitly called "Civilian labor force data" (explicitly excluding military personnel i.e. non-civilians)
KT2000
(20,950 posts)Wiz Imp
(2,453 posts)Apparently they reversed their position at some point after that because the definition of civilian noninstitutional population explicitly says it excludes active duty armed forces personnel.
https://webapps.dol.gov/dolfaq/go-dol-faq.asp?faqid=111&topicid=6
Frequently Asked Questions
Question: How are the labor force components (i.e., civilian noninstitutional population, civilian labor force, employed, unemployed, and unemployment rate) defined?
Answer: The official concepts and definitions of the labor force components used in the Current Population Survey (CPS) are described below. For a complete description, see Definitions of Labor Force Concepts.
Civilian noninstitutional population: Persons 16 years of age and older residing in the 50 states and the District of Columbia, who are not inmates of institutions (e.g., penal and mental facilities, homes for the aged), and who are not on active duty in the Armed Forces.
Civilian labor force: All persons in the civilian noninstitutional population classified as either employed or unemployed.
Employed persons: All persons who, during the reference week (week including the twelfth day of the month), (a) did any work as paid employees, worked in their own business or profession or on their own farm, or worked 15 hours or more as unpaid workers in an enterprise operated by a member of their family, or (b) were not working but who had jobs from which they were temporarily absent. Each employed person is counted only once, even if he or she holds more than one job.
Unemployed persons: All persons who had no employment during the reference week, were available for work, except for temporary illness, and had made specific efforts to find employment some time during the 4 week-period ending with the reference week. Persons who were waiting to be recalled to a job from which they had been laid off need not have been looking for work to be classified as unemployed.
Unemployment rate: The ratio of unemployed to the civilian labor force expressed as a percent [i.e., 100 times (unemployed/labor force)].
Thanks again for the info!
KT2000
(20,950 posts)at the time. It was a big issue then.
We were alert to Reagan's manipulations as we will be with trump's. Our asst. Director told new management hires how to pad their travel vouchers. I audited them and caught them - disallowed. The system changed under Reagan where travel vouchers were no longer audited (I think in all of Commerce) but just sent to a sub contractor for processing.
It's the little things.
Mark.b2
(490 posts)my company is heavy with retailers. The consumer isnt buying like this year. This should be our peak season as we ramp up for Christmas. We and our competitors all have capacity.
I really hope the latest Fed actions help in coming months. I do see more ‘for sale’ signs in front of houses. That helps.
Jit423
(429 posts)You won't miss your government until it's gone.
qazplm135
(7,528 posts)At 80 percent disability I'm already looking at jobs because I know there's a good chance my disability payments are going to disappear in about a year, two tops.
keithbvadu2
(40,514 posts)
Ruby the Liberal
(26,330 posts)the colder runs my blood.
I remember him ranting about banning the death toll from being published during COVID.
Being cynical is my default position (for ill or good). Its already going into hyperdrive and its only been 4 days.
Lord help us all...
wishstar
(5,493 posts)Once Reagan took over, official SS govt pamphlets started being printed that were notable for their attempts to convince public of how Social Security was in danger of running out of funds. Unlike Carter and Ford Administration publications that touted the security and benefits provided to Americans by Social Security Insurance coverage, the Reaganites were actively working to convince Americans to distrust Social Security presumably because of their dislike of payroll taxes and desire to privatize the system.
So absolutely we can expect repercussions with regard to public information if their plans materialize to politicize the civil service and convince public to believe in their plans.
mjvpi
(1,575 posts)I may not be remembering correctly.
Evolve Dammit
(19,069 posts)Hassler
(3,782 posts)Record the price of eggs and bacon. Maybe pics of them. Then a year from now go back and see where the prices are at. Useful info to confront MAGAt relatives with
markie
(22,950 posts)
alfredo
(60,149 posts)That has a strong economy. Can you think of one?
Lucky Luciano
(11,487 posts)…which is why people tolerated the autocracy.
ancianita
(38,874 posts)ancianita
(38,874 posts)Keep the people trump fires, and their current information systems running parallel to the trump fake numbers system.
It will end up being two competing sets of books -- one real set that reflects reality on the ground, the other fake set that reflects the trumpian "reality by consensus" that he demands.
Will the corporate media and press be aware of this change? Or will they fall for this?
Will we have journalists who keep a stalwart pool of information and data sources that challenge the trumpian reality?
We have to keep a lookout for them, whoever and wherever they are, and share them here.
Peregrine Took
(7,512 posts)To describe the world of hurt we would be entering if he was elected ..described it in everyday words like living in a police state and children spying on their parents,,etc
M_o_o_n_dust
(6 posts)This is terrifying. I just got hired at a VA hospital and I would never sign a loyalty oath to any President.
This attack on the agencies in charge of data collection reminds me of when Trump wanted to get the Covid infection rates down by simply not testing.
Betty Boom
(223 posts)…to go into government service. Please don’t let this disillusion you because we need good people in the government. I don’t think that you will ever have to literally sign a loyalty oath, but I would urge you to be very careful about any statements you make on social media using your real name. Of course your training has probably told you that you always need to include a disclaimer stating that you are not speaking on behalf of your agency and that you were speaking as an individual… But if I were advising you, I would say just don’t do it at all. Even with the disclaimer. Also, if you contribute to candidates or to Organizations that need to report those contributions so that there is a public record of it,ask if a family member or a friend who is not the government employee would be willing to make that contribution under their own name on your behalf. I would also urge you if you are registered as a Democrat to change your registration to independent.
I don’t say these things to alarm you or make you paranoid. I’m simply saying that in a dictatorship and an autocracy, big Brother will be watching. I’m sure you’ve already realized that people don’t talk about their politics in the government work setting. Double down on that. Good luck to you and thank you for your service
pnwmom
(109,636 posts)
Jack Valentino
(1,510 posts)And possibly eggs, milk and butter. And MEAT.
Otherwise, I agree, magats don't understand economic numbers at all, or economics.
If they did, they would not have voted to elect Trump's program-- but
doubt they understood any of that either.
After all, the guy wasn't incredibly 'clear', was he.
PRICES they may understand..... especially when it becomes harder to
have beer with their Doritos, or harder to have Doritos with their beer.
Dollar General just raised the prices on their cheapest beer...... again....
Mark.b2
(490 posts)We usually eat a steak one night a week. Two weeks ago, I bought my usual six ribeyes, having my butcher put them in three pckages. $87! When we moved here in mid-2019 and started using this butcher shop, six steaks ran $60-65.
A $200 visit to the butcher is common now.
Hieronymus Phact
(518 posts)In 2 years they will be saying that Trump fixed Biden's inflation. Nothing will change their minds about it.
Nimble_Idea
(2,476 posts)it's sad to see really
yeah take note of all those numbers, sear them into your super big brains. where the rest of America dgaf.
Betty Boom
(223 posts)…to insult my original post. It literally says, don’t be under the illusion we can use government data to battle them. That’s the entire point of my post - that the Meidas Touch podcast was trying to arm listeners with tools that will be useless.
Some of the responses, i agree, don’t show a clear understanding of that. And I tried to clarify within the thread in response.
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,623 posts)
IronLionZion
(47,121 posts)that's harder to hide. So when people are impacted personally, the reported numbers won't matter as much. Plenty of GOP doubted the "seasonally adjusted" numbers from the socialist sounding Bureau of Labor Statistics during Dem administrations. 
Plenty of voters didn't care about the reported numbers this year because they were still complaining about high prices. 
pansypoo53219
(21,789 posts)minions.
jfz9580m
(15,584 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:30 AM - Edit history (1)
That you simply have fewer reliable resources.
We will fill your world with illusion as the aliens in 3-body promised. Only it will all be so much duller..Elon Musk etc fudging numbers as described in the OP..
The war on our attention can be fixed by just tuning out trump’s threats and posturing and only following trustworthy sources on facts, science and reality.
Betty Boom
(223 posts)Their propaganda machine will create a new reality. People will begin to doubt the reality of their own lived experience. Whatever the State tells them is reality is what they will come to believe.
58Sunliner
(5,003 posts)
liberalla
(10,091 posts)There'll be many surprises (or bombs) along the way that we don't anticipate, and will be unprepared for...