Is America still worth fighting for? Are we just wasting our time?

[Yavin4]

Democrats gave this country Clinton who had perhaps the best overall economy in my lifetime along with a growing federal surplus., America responded by giving us Bush who gave us 9/11, two wars, and a complete economic collapse.

Democrats gave this country Obama who gave us the ACA and a recovered economy from the collapse. America responded with Trump and the covid pandemic.

Democrats gave this country Biden who piloted us out of the pandemic, rolled out the vaccine, passed the Inflation reduction act, the chips act, and was the most labor friendly Democrat in my lifetime. America responded with Trump.

What's the actual point of fighting? Even if we get through a second Trump term. Even if we elected the greatest president of all time. America will just respond with someone worse who will destroy everything.

So, what's the actual point of it all?

[Groundhawg]

1. Periods like the last 4 years is what makes it worth it.

And if you have to ask.........................

[Yavin4]

4. Even when we win, we eventually will lose and have to start over again. n/t

[Dem4life1234]

6. It's like a cycle

Hopefully it will swing back in our favor with time.

[Groundhawg]

15. Starting over is still better than being in a country where what we had for the last 4 years isn't even possible

[The Wandering Harper]

2. is America worth fighting for? I don't know . . .

Which Way to America, 1988

but all of the people I love are here and they are worth fighting for

[Keepthesoulalive]

3. We fight for others

I won’t give up on the children , for women to control their bodies, for the environment, for the migrants who do the jobs Americans don’t want to do and because I won’t let these bastards beat me down. They want us to give up so they can rule.

[Elessar Zappa]

5. Sure.

We have to keep fighting, even if it’s only to limit the damage. We owe it to the children in this country.

[Yavin4]

7. Republicans keep getting worse

From Reagan to Bush I to Bush II to Trump to...Tucker Carlson?

[Native]

29. It isn't the Republican party anymore. I don't know why they still call it that.

[delisen]

8. Democracy Shapes my time, not Wastes my time

It has provided me with fine companions, has kept my brain working, taught me to enjoy life in every moment I can, and remind me every day to be a helper to others in every opportunity I have.

It has showed me over and over that I am not alone, that shared success illuminates my life, and sharing burdens makes me stronger.

[greatauntoftriplets]

9. I honestly don't know.

[sky_masterson]

10. Ask me again in two years.

If Authoritarianism doesn't change us back, then no.
Hate won. Best we can do is sit back , take care of our own and those we can, and hope reality sinks in before more people are hurt.
Concentration camps for Migrants should be fun to see.

[Wuddles440]

40. Those camps...

may not be just for migrants, but eventually for those "enemies within". Any deportations of sources of labor will need to be replaced and probably enslaved.

[Nictuku]

11. I used to think so

[Intractable]

12. I think the alternative is worse -- giving up. One has to prioritize one's actions.

1) Your personal mental and physical health, and those of your family
2) Wellbeing of friends and community
3) Politics and DU

>> So, what's the actual point of it all?

We will never have the utopian democratic republic as spelled out in the founding documents. By fighting for what we believe in, it brings us closer to it.

If we, the Democrats, don't rebuild and fix things, all we have is the destruction caused by the Republicans.

[soandso]

21. The founders were not Utopians

There is no Utopia. The bulk of their writings were warnings about always being vigilant against tyranny and abuse of power. Their brilliance was in understanding human nature.

[OldBaldy1701E]

24. "We will never have the utopian democratic republic as spelled out in the founding documents."

Okay, fine. I can see that.

So, if this is the case, the we need to STOP WITH ALL THE PROPAGANDA SAYING THAT IT WILL!!!

Enough with the 'greatest country in the world' crap. Enough with the 'American Dream' bullshit. Stop with the 'anyone can be blah blah blah.'

It is all a lie. Stop supporting it. Stop spreading it. This delusion is part and parcel to why we are where we are. If we would stop with the dick waving and bragging we might be able to get a handle on things.

Of course, Americans LOVE to brag and dick wave, so I don't know what to do about this... and apparently neither does anyone else.

[EdmondDantes_]

13. Yes and obviously so

All positive change requires fighting for it. The civil rights movement led to anti bussing protests. The civil war led to the KKK. Life isn't a fairy tale where evil is beaten once and goes away. The only way to get a better world is to fight for it.

Trump isn't an isolated problem. Similar political movements have happened in Brazil, France, England, the Netherlands, Hungary, India, and Italy. That's not to mention look at the histories of Germany and Japan. Should the world have said that Germany and Germans should be considered a lost cause because they fell for Hitler's nonsense? Should we have written off the US because slavery was a thing?

Change happens because people fight for it. Yes it's going to be hard, but doing nothing will only result is worse hardship because some people will be fighting to make the world worse because they want power or money. The way to combat that is to do the hard work, even when it seems pointless because you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Initech]

14. Rule of law doesn't matter anymore. Education doesn't matter anymore. Facts don't matter anymore.

Am I missing anything else?

[DSandra]

16. This pattern has been going on for far longer...

The roaring 20s with Republicans led to the Great Depression, and FDR built America up and built up unions, which led to the greatest economy ever, and Americans abandoned it with Reagan, leading to the right wing neoliberal economics era, and the lowering of wages compared to productivity, and the bloating of the national debt.

[Yavin4]

17. Tax cuts and the national debt create a vicious cycle

Tax cuts benefit the rich primarily, and they also increase the national debt which also means that interest payments have to be paid on that. And where do those interest payments go to? The rich.

[Oopsie Daisy]

18. Yeah, you're probably right. Let's just give up and wait for the interment camps and execution squads, eh?

Why bother? There's no escaping our destiny. It's too much trouble, I suppose. We should take our cues from all the people who didn't vote* and do nothing just the same.


* including the idiotic and selfish "Vote Uncommitted" crowd, as well as those who voted for Stein and RFKJr.

[OldBaldy1701E]

27. I believe the situation is this.

Why bother? There's no escaping our destiny. It's too much trouble, I suppose.

Oh, there is a way to escape it. The situation is that we will have to change certain things in order to escape it.; Those changes will not be pleasant. They will alter the very setup of this nation. But, they will correct the problems, as long as we are willing to make the changes.

But, we won't. THAT is the reason why this question is being asked. Why bother when we are not addressing the underlying reason or the situation in the first place? It is not a question of 'giving up'. It is seeing that the reason for this will not be addressed and therefore trying to 'save' it is just idiotic.

[hootman]

30. You're right. The underlying reasons for THIS loss wont be addressed.

Not here.

[DFW]

19. All countries go through periods like this. So far, we can be glad to be able to express our frustrations.

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2024, 07:07 AM - Edit history (1)

There is a legend about a Russian in Germany arriving and asking for asylum.
The Germans case worker assigned to him starts going through the required interview:
"OK, we need to start with the reason for your application for asylum. Are you politically persecuted?"
The Russian: "Can't complain."
"Are you religiously persecuted?"
The Russian: "Can't complain."
"Are you starving? Do you lack enough food to survive?"
The Russian: "Can't complain."
"Then why do you want to come here anyway"
The Russian: "Here, I am allowed to complain."

Go to any of the so-called "paradise" countries, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Switzerland, wherever, and the people there will ALWAYS have something to complain about. When Bill Clinton was about to leave office in late 2000, the Europeans were telling me, "are you crazy to get rid of a leader like that? Can we have him when you're done?"

Whenever we have leadership that, on the whole, has done the country a world of good, those factions that are not so benevolent, and jealous to a fault, will always make up some ridiculous pretext to convince their followers that good was bad, and they need to make things better (or, "great again," if you prefer). Clinton, Obama, and now Biden have all been succeeded by comparative disasters. Each time, we asked ourselves, will we ever survive this? And, indeed, there have been good people, undeserving of the evil that befell them, who didn't survive.

But we can't give in. Resignation is what I heard when I visited Russia. It's not encouraging, and that was a quarter century ago. Optimism hasn't exactly flourished there, since, either, from what Russian friends tell me. I haven't been back. Resignation, or, rather, the lack of it, has been the one thing that distinguishes us from so many other countries. In France, they say, "C'est comme ça, qu'est-ce que tu veux?" (That's the way it is, what do you want?) What we want is something better. We say so, and we try to do something about it. That is what distinguishes us, take it from one who can see this from the outside. When the Trumpanzees say, "make America great again," we have to answer, "OK, but since you either won't or can't, get out of the way, and we will."

[JI7]

20. I think we need to focus more on local level

[JoseBalow]

22. "Do we have the strength to carry on this mighty task..."

(0:12)

[Meowmee]

23. It's really not a comparison

Because a psycho fascist Russian asset has been given free rein now. Millions murdered by his malfeasance, a near complete breakdown of normalcy, attempted destruction of the government etc.

They failed to do what needed to be done to stop him and the system is very faulty because it allowed it.

Souter predicted this would happen with an ignorant electorate.

[OldBaldy1701E]

25. 'America' the ideal is worth fighting for.

'American' the current reality is not. Unfortunately, no one wants to change the current reality because they are still buying into that delusion that says you can be what you want and you have the chance to be rich. Both are lies and are based in our predatory capitalism.

Which, it seems, will NEVER go away. Ever.

[Emile]

26. Trump will hand over the United States to Putin

and if we are going to do any fighting it will probably be against Ukraine.

[RandySF]

28. I'm struggling with this question.

[Dulcinea]

31. I will continue to fight.

My sister & I were texting on Election Night, & both of are worried about the nation our kids will inherit. My daughters & nephew are worth fighting for. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” --Attributed to Edmund Burke

[Littlered]

32. Nope.

[bif]

33. I'm tired of fighting!

It's really tiring. Let the next generation fight. I just turned 70 and it's exhausting.

[boston bean]

34. I am in self preservation mode at this time. That may change. Not sure.

[GenThePerservering]

35. Get knocked down nine times, get up ten. nt

[kansasobama]

36. It is not worth it but is there a choice?

It is merely fighting it to a draw every 4 years. Unfortunately, no progress will be made. It is not good for climate change and science, in general. It is going to be devastating for the TRUMPERS like Latinos and others who voted for him. Personally speaking, I think a confederation of 3 states, Pacific West, Northeast, and MAGA middle is the ultimate solution. This way, the nation will remain but within their pockets,they can run it to ground

[alarimer]

37. It is not worth it anymore.

For whatever reason, people like change for change's sake. Sometimes extreme change, even.

It will not be saved until we get rid of the propaganda operations like Fox News and the internet. Yes, I do believe we need to reform the internnet massively. How? I have no idea, but it is the instrument of our destruction.

[Laurelin]

38. Of course it's worth it

You can't just fight for good causes only when you win. You have to fight when you lose. If nobody tries to save America, or improve her, then we absolutely lose. I'm glad people were abolitionists and suffagettes and fighters for civil rights and.... even though they all lost and lost and lost some more. They made progress. The battles continue. We can't just throw up our hands and give up; it's our turn to fight. Don't think I'm happy about it because I'm not. Also I'm tired. I've been fighting for 30 years now and have lost consistently. But I am NOT giving up.

[Laurelin]

39. We can't give up

You can't just fight for good causes only when you win. You have to fight when you lose. If nobody tries to save America, or improve her, then we absolutely lose. I'm glad people were abolitionists and suffagettes and fighters for civil rights and.... even though they all lost and lost and lost some more. They made progress. The battles continue. We can't just throw up our hands and give up; it's our turn to fight. Don't think I'm happy about it because I'm not. Also I'm tired. I've been fighting for 30 years now and have lost consistently. But I am NOT giving up.

[Vinca]

41. At this point I can't answer that. I know I'm old and will be counting my longevity in years not decades and

I'm really, really, really, really sick of caring about people who don't give a shit. If they want Trump, they can enjoy the fruit of their votes. If they post any "GoFundMe" pleas because they can't afford life under Trump, I'll donate 2 cents and give them a piece of my mind.