Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
(54%) of Americans between the ages of 16 and 74 read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level (Original Post) Ponietz Nov 2024 OP
I am reminded of that every day when interacting with my fellow citizens.nt. drray23 Nov 2024 #1
They tell you everything you need to know Turbineguy Nov 2024 #2
Illustrates the dismal state of our educational system. MichMan Nov 2024 #3
Amen! My wife taught public school for 21 years before moving to private for the last six... Mark.b2 Nov 2024 #6
"Social Promotion.". We cater to their self-esteem. We indulge. lindysalsagal Nov 2024 #11
Ah! That's the term my wife told me about. Mark.b2 Nov 2024 #15
But then the parents want to whine when the teacher gives the student a bad grade Dem4life1234 Nov 2024 #26
A lot of parents don't teach their kids to respect teachers' authority.... Mark.b2 Nov 2024 #47
I did 7 years public school (rural Alabama and inner city Atlanta.) bamagal62 Nov 2024 #48
I doubt it was ever any better. Elessar Zappa Nov 2024 #57
And yet, I was reading at 8th/9th grade level in second grade, not even niyad Nov 2024 #4
Snopes isn't reliable anymore but I definitely believe this is true. live love laugh Nov 2024 #5
Wut? MrWowWow Nov 2024 #7
Good grief! And we know of at least one who is in Congress. LoisB Nov 2024 #8
Another in the Senate misanthrope Nov 2024 #22
True, true. The Senator from Alabama who allegedly actually lives in Florida. His intellect is limited to LoisB Nov 2024 #23
I've alway thought: how terrible scary it must be to not marybourg Nov 2024 #9
A coworker once took me aside to ask a question. yardwork Nov 2024 #44
Most people voting on bond issues don't even know what a bond issue is Ponietz Nov 2024 #49
So, how do we improve it? I get GOPers obstruct, so what can we do? Most people I see seem relatively Silent Type Nov 2024 #10
My impression is most know their job and their hobby TheKentuckian Nov 2024 #61
In 5th grade I was reading at a senior in high school/college freshman level. BannonsLiver Nov 2024 #12
My parents were told when I was in 5th grade... love_katz Nov 2024 #21
Me too. I remember reading Jane Eyre and some of Dostoyevsky's novels. travelingthrulife Nov 2024 #55
That's all you need for comic books lame54 Nov 2024 #13
Or Hustler. rubbersole Nov 2024 #20
There is nothing wrong with comics exboyfil Nov 2024 #31
Agreed. My parents - to the horror of neighbors - let me read comics. yardwork Nov 2024 #45
Goebbels had a Phd Kaleva Nov 2024 #14
And lack of education is no guarantee of rectitude. dchill Nov 2024 #30
More like point missed GenThePerservering Nov 2024 #40
Yes Kaleva Nov 2024 #41
Yes, but lack of education .. Dave says Nov 2024 #60
The literacy rate is based on a test administered to adults between 16 to 74 in 2003. summer_in_TX Nov 2024 #16
To be fair, we do rank 125th globally for literacy, so there's that. Abolishinist Nov 2024 #17
And likely cannot even Figarosmom Nov 2024 #18
And Dotard speaks at a 4th grade level.... AZ8theist Nov 2024 #19
From my own study of private letters and hand written documents defacto7 Nov 2024 #54
And yet they're banning books?! When I was a kid, reading was actively encouraged! Rhiannon12866 Nov 2024 #24
This has been the republican bamagal62 Nov 2024 #25
"Idiocracy" was a documentary. dchill Nov 2024 #29
No, it is a Pollyannaish fairytale at this point. TheKentuckian Nov 2024 #33
I blame the Kardashians - now it's cool to be stupid. groundloop Nov 2024 #27
Incredible, yet also seemingly completely obvious. dchill Nov 2024 #28
Explains the election Old Crank Nov 2024 #32
For a certain group of people... Mike Nelson Nov 2024 #34
my kids learned to read when they were 3. they then spent almost 2 years reading everything Native Nov 2024 #35
I would say I am shocked, but even the far more educated are having "issues." Many cannot spell, have atrocious hlthe2b Nov 2024 #36
We are talking about a reading level for 11 and 12 year old children. madaboutharry Nov 2024 #37
This quote left out "cretin" GreenWave Nov 2024 #38
Damn! Ysabel Nov 2024 #39
Including the guy who just got reelected, tanyev Nov 2024 #42
America is banner headline readers Norbert Nov 2024 #43
Partially explains the serious lack La Coliniere Nov 2024 #46
Partially - maybe? MerrilyMerrily Nov 2024 #50
Thanks Ronnie, own it Rs! Clouds Passing Nov 2024 #51
That should come as no surprise to anyone who reads at an adult level. MineralMan Nov 2024 #52
This explains why a large amount of Americans are stupid. Emile Nov 2024 #53
I have long believed... The Madcap Nov 2024 #56
This does say something. republianmushroom Nov 2024 #58
My 16 year old son told me something I didn't know Bettie Nov 2024 #59

MichMan

(14,782 posts)
3. Illustrates the dismal state of our educational system.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:37 AM
Nov 2024

Yet, the vast majority were able to graduate HS anyway.

Mark.b2

(545 posts)
6. Amen! My wife taught public school for 21 years before moving to private for the last six...
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:59 AM
Nov 2024

You put a nickel in her on this subject, and you get a dollar’s worth. She’s passionate about it.

She’s always taught 2nd through 6th grades. She loves kids those ages. She says the vast majority of poor readers have parents who are not engaged in working alongside the teacher to help remedy the problem. And she’s not talking anout the single mom who works two jobs and who lacks time. Even that mom, if she cares and is determined to help when she can, can affect the child positively. My wife says she can work with mom to figure something out.

It’s the parents who frankly dont give a shit their kid cant read who are the problem. And there are many of them…at all socioeconomic levels.

To be sure, there are schools, administrators and teachers who are content to pass illiterate kids on to someone else.

Astonishingly, they dont flunk kids. In fact, she says that word is almost vulgar in academic circles.

There is no other skill more important our educational system should impart than reading.

lindysalsagal

(22,618 posts)
11. "Social Promotion.". We cater to their self-esteem. We indulge.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:46 AM
Nov 2024

Seems we can't find the happy medium between abuse and babysitting. The world is too complicated for our level of cognition and communication.

That's why they attack teachers and schools and libraries and librarians. Thinking hurts. The gqp is profiting off our willful ignorance.

Mark.b2

(545 posts)
15. Ah! That's the term my wife told me about.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:11 AM
Nov 2024

Still, at the end of every school year as she’s entering final grades, I always teasingly ask “did you flunk anyone?” I get the eye-roll! LOL

Dem4life1234

(2,530 posts)
26. But then the parents want to whine when the teacher gives the student a bad grade
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:55 AM
Nov 2024

The entitlement of some of those parents is ridiculous.

Mark.b2

(545 posts)
47. A lot of parents don't teach their kids to respect teachers' authority....
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:41 AM
Nov 2024

She had a kid that kept wearing a cap in the building even though it was against the rules. She gave him a final warning. If it happened again, she’d confiscate the hat and hold it until the kid brought a note from a parent saying they were aware of the issue.

The next day, the kid brings the note. It was from the mother. It said that if the teacher didn’t return the kid’s hat that day, the mom would be there the next day to take the hat back.

That’s a good example of what teachers deal with.

She said it was usually younger parents (

bamagal62

(3,863 posts)
48. I did 7 years public school (rural Alabama and inner city Atlanta.)
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:03 AM
Nov 2024

Then moved overseas and did 6 private/international/American school.
It was night and day between parents who cared and parents who didn’t give a sh/t.

niyad

(123,149 posts)
4. And yet, I was reading at 8th/9th grade level in second grade, not even
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:46 AM
Nov 2024

in my birth language.

LoisB

(10,063 posts)
23. True, true. The Senator from Alabama who allegedly actually lives in Florida. His intellect is limited to
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:35 AM
Nov 2024

X's and O's.

marybourg

(13,367 posts)
9. I've alway thought: how terrible scary it must be to not
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:22 AM
Nov 2024

really be able to understand the world around you, the rules, the words, the laws. And reading at a sixth grade level or lower means you’re not reading much or understanding much. Most things must be a scary mystery.

yardwork

(66,110 posts)
44. A coworker once took me aside to ask a question.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:22 AM
Nov 2024

She was an administrative assistant, and she was good at it.

She said she had a question that she was embarrassed to ask about. She didn't understand what people meant when they talked about conservatives and liberals. What did that mean, she asked. Did it have something to do with politics?

She wasn't asking a profound existential question. She literally didn't know what those words meant, or how they related to politics.

Silent Type

(8,932 posts)
10. So, how do we improve it? I get GOPers obstruct, so what can we do? Most people I see seem relatively
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:42 AM
Nov 2024

intelligent, excepting politics.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
61. My impression is most know their job and their hobby
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 06:13 PM
Nov 2024

and little of anything else especially how any system functions.

Pick a subject.

Any subject and odds are who ever you are dealing with is either blank or has made up their own understanding or borrowed an understanding from some know nothings or propagandists.

BannonsLiver

(19,034 posts)
12. In 5th grade I was reading at a senior in high school/college freshman level.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:49 AM
Nov 2024

This was in the 80s. And I was no valedictorian candidate. Okay grades. We’ve fallen a long way.

love_katz

(2,982 posts)
21. My parents were told when I was in 5th grade...
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:05 AM
Nov 2024

That I could read, comprehend and retain what I was reading, at the college level.

Reading was encouraged in my home. My dad said I could recite, word for word, the stories that my mother read to me, before I was three years old. Dad said that people might think that I was actually reading the story, but they could tell that I was reciting because I would pronounce the words and use the same inflection that my mom had, when she read me the story.
Dad started working on making me use my eyes more, by asking me to tell him what was on the page besides the words.
My parents constantly encouraged me to think. We had a Webster's unabridged dictionary, and dad made me look up unfamiliar words when I was still too small to lift it down to the table. He would get it down, but he made me search through it for the word, and he also insisted that I learn to sound words out. We had a subscription for National Geographic magazine, which I devoured eagerly each month. Mom took me to the library often enough that the librarian knew my name and helped pick out books for me. I still have two large format hardback books about nature and science that my folks bought as a holiday gift to our family.

I'm horrified at the lack of reading comprehension and logical thinking in our country.

travelingthrulife

(2,010 posts)
55. Me too. I remember reading Jane Eyre and some of Dostoyevsky's novels.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:54 AM
Nov 2024

I was not exceptional either. Just interested.

exboyfil

(18,192 posts)
31. There is nothing wrong with comics
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 04:49 AM
Nov 2024

They were a strong contributor for me learning to read. Still love them. I don't read all that much anymore because I walk 3 plus hours a day and listen to audiobooks. Will read a lot more when I retire.

I do find it interesting how the 50s comics were more narrative than the ones today (at least EC horror and SF). Growing up was a mix of comics and science fiction with some fantasy. Today it is more horror.

I live reading to my one year old grandson just as I did my daughters a quarter century earlier. I don't think my parents ever read much to me, but when I was a little older I loved reading comics with my dad (he would be reading Conan while I read Kamandi and Legion of Super Heroes).

yardwork

(66,110 posts)
45. Agreed. My parents - to the horror of neighbors - let me read comics.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:24 AM
Nov 2024

Reading is reading, they figured. I always read a lot.

Kaleva

(39,156 posts)
14. Goebbels had a Phd
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:05 AM
Nov 2024

He was well educated, articulate and very intelligent.

Neither of my grandfather's made it past the 6th grade and yet they were hard working, caring family men and solid citizens . Same with my FIL who can't read.

Education is no guarantee .

summer_in_TX

(3,540 posts)
16. The literacy rate is based on a test administered to adults between 16 to 74 in 2003.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:33 AM
Nov 2024

The National Assessment of Educational Progress isn't regularly given to Americans who are in that age group. More regular tests are needed.

AZ8theist

(6,686 posts)
19. And Dotard speaks at a 4th grade level....
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:52 AM
Nov 2024

..so what's your point?

We are a nation of MAJORITY IMBECILES.

Dotard is the perfect leader.

Unfortunately, he is surrounded by smart, evil people who want nothing more than to steal ALL THE MONEY.
And will do so, while the rubes and the rest of us argue and fight over scraps.

It's been this way for humans for thousands of years. Fortunately, this unevolved stupidity will cause our extintion, and the planet will recover and survive. We just won't be around to see it.

defacto7

(14,023 posts)
54. From my own study of private letters and hand written documents
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:46 AM
Nov 2024

from previous centuries I had the opportunity to browse in the Yale archives years ago, I am convinced that collectively, humans have devolved mentally for whatever reason since the mid 19th century. I wrote a long post on this a long time ago, but I'll not dredge that up here.

I agree with you.

Rhiannon12866

(231,963 posts)
24. And yet they're banning books?! When I was a kid, reading was actively encouraged!
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:42 AM
Nov 2024

Even in the summer, when school was out, the local library had a summer reading program for kids and my mother took my brother and me every week. We got credit for every book we read...

bamagal62

(3,863 posts)
25. This has been the republican
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:50 AM
Nov 2024

Long game all along. The less educated, the best for them. They’ve been destroying our education system since Regan. But we didn’t pay any attention. I saw it as a teacher. They’ve been working on it for years.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
33. No, it is a Pollyannaish fairytale at this point.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 05:09 AM
Nov 2024

To think we could depend on the genuine desire and determined will to do what is right for the people despite any opposition while seeking and respecting wisdom and expertise like President Comacho demonstrates is too optimistic to take seriously.

groundloop

(12,749 posts)
27. I blame the Kardashians - now it's cool to be stupid.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 04:01 AM
Nov 2024

Why put forth any effort to learn anything if you can simply wear the right clothes, say the right words, and hang out with the cool kids.

And of course everything that's been said about parental engagement applies also. I was reading with both of my kids nearly every night when they were young, and then helping with homework etc. etc. It's not all that difficult to be an involved parent.

Just for giggles, here's an example from my local facebook group:

Requestprayer for me today if details workout suppose have test and surgery on my leg wednesday

Mike Nelson

(10,536 posts)
34. For a certain group of people...
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 05:27 AM
Nov 2024

... that's good news. Education is their enemy. Look for the attack on public education to grow stronger under the next administration.

Native

(7,009 posts)
35. my kids learned to read when they were 3. they then spent almost 2 years reading everything
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 06:40 AM
Nov 2024

they could get their hands on. It was like their world had finally been opened up to them. That natural curiosity they had at that age was directed toward books. I can't fathom going through life without books.

hlthe2b

(109,062 posts)
36. I would say I am shocked, but even the far more educated are having "issues." Many cannot spell, have atrocious
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 06:45 AM
Nov 2024

grammar and absolutely cannot write. I have become very very selective in those interns and students I will agree to take on in their master's degree theses. Admittedly, I am susceptible to becoming a bit obsessive, so editing the errors becomes an immense endeavor--and that is before I even assess the content. I send it back and get another version that is scarcely any less error-ridden than the first. I sit down with them and offer some suggestions, loan them a copy of my old Strunk and White (Elements of Style--the epitome of grammatical and writing references), suggest they subscribe to an online combined spelling and grammatical corrector and then try to get past that to review what they are actually trying to say.

Social media and texting, combined with lackluster teaching (or at least "learning" ) in elementary and junior high that is never corrected in high school, result in them being passed on repeatedly. I assume they graduated college to enter these master's degree programs without anyone ever reading anything they have written.

So, the dumbing down of society from first grade through college and beyond continues. But, of course, MAGA will correct all that. sigh...

madaboutharry

(41,832 posts)
37. We are talking about a reading level for 11 and 12 year old children.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 06:47 AM
Nov 2024

Examples of books written at this level are The Secret Garden, Island of The Blue Dolphins, The Call of the Wild, and Holes.

These are books many of us, I have no doubt, remember reading as a child.

It is very sobering that 54% of adults read at this level.

A few years ago, there was a report that 100% of the books purchased in the United States are purchased by 18% of the public. It would be interesting to know if that statistic correlates with books checked out of public libraries.


https://k-12readinglist.com/reading-lists-for-elementary-school-children/reading-list-6th-grade-children-age-11-12/

GreenWave

(11,013 posts)
38. This quote left out "cretin"
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 07:25 AM
Nov 2024
The terms "idiot," "moron," and "imbecile" were once used in psychology to classify levels of intellectual disability. An "idiot" referred to individuals with a mental age below 3 years (IQ below 25), an "imbecile" described those with a mental age between 3 to 7 years (IQ of 26-50), and a "moron" indicated individuals with a mental age between 7 to 10 years (IQ of 51-70). These classifications are now considered outdated and derogatory. from wikipedia.

La Coliniere

(1,359 posts)
46. Partially explains the serious lack
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:38 AM
Nov 2024

of critical thinking skills…one needs to comprehend inferences, and the difference between facts and fiction to make rational decisions.

MerrilyMerrily

(204 posts)
50. Partially - maybe?
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:24 AM
Nov 2024

Critical thinking is a skill evident in even very young children, and it is more likely to become very well-developed if encouraged. Of course, many bright kids do not back down and accept the "Why? Because I say so!" parenting technique for long.

Your vocabulary level will help you understand what you are reading on its face. Your ability to think critically will determine how well you evaluate the material in terms of making sense, encouraging or discouraging human values, etc.

Critical thinking helps you recognize when the writer is trying to manipulate you into guilt or fear or anger, or is simply making assertions that require verification. A 12th grade vocabulary level can't really help you with that.

Case in point: the number of college students who think Ayn Rand is brilliant and then realize she's a hack and a phony a few years later.

I just looked up the vocabulary list for a sixth-grade level. It is much more extensive than man woman person camera tv! Trump's stupidity is special, let's not pretend that people reading at a sixth grade level must be his voters and it's a wonder people at that reading level can put their shoes on the correct feet.

MineralMan

(148,839 posts)
52. That should come as no surprise to anyone who reads at an adult level.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:34 AM
Nov 2024

Thus has it always been, I believe.

The Madcap

(1,089 posts)
56. I have long believed...
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:00 AM
Nov 2024

That teaching kids capital letters first is backwards. The vast majority of letters in written English are lower case. Mastering them along with their sounds would open up reading faster, it seems to me.

Admittedly, I don't have real data to back this up. It's how I had both my kids reading by age 3, but my data point isn't a large enough sample to know for sure.

Bettie

(18,132 posts)
59. My 16 year old son told me something I didn't know
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:07 PM
Nov 2024

about school.

They aren't assigned reading. They get recordings to listen to in class or they all read aloud together, the only kids who get assigned reading are told to read on their own as a punishment for bad behavior.

That "punishment" would have been the best day ever for me.

He reads, not nearly as much as I do, but he does read.

So, I guess I believe it.

We're a nation of illiterates. No wonder they love the orange asshole.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»(54%) of Americans betwee...