Trump didn't really win; Kamala lost.

[Septua]

I know, it's a nonsensical comment.

Trump got the same number of votes this time as last. We know he lost some number of supporters, so he had to gain that number back. Where did he get them? Misogynistic Blacks or Latinos or Independents or maybe even some Democrats?

If Biden hadn't lost the confidence of voters and dropped out, would he have won?

[LisaL]

1. We will never find out if Biden would have won.

My feeling always was we should have stuck with him. It was too late to change course at the time our own party forced him to drop out.

[FarPoint]

2. I found her campaign to be

Magnificent ... I want a recount ... It just is not over ...

[LisaL]

3. She isn't even asking for a recount.

And clearly there were issues with the campaign, not that it would have changed anything as far as I am concerned.

[Meadowoak]

4. just like magic! only the Muskrat knows

[Dennis Donovan]

5. No, I think people just wouldn't buy that the economy was better here than anywhere else

They went by their pocketbooks and felt the party in charge did little to resolve why they were broke half the time.

[In It to Win It]

29. ...and most voters probably don't care about "anywhere else"

They don't care of the country recovered better than everywhere else. People only care if they, individually, feel like they've recovered.

[Silent Type]

6. Fact is, Biden did lose confidence of voters. Think he would have done much worse than Harris.

[LisaL]

7. Could be relentless press and his own party be the reason for why Biden lost the

confidence of voters? Everybody would have forgotten about that debate in a week if we didn't have press harping on it day in and day out, and democrats demanding he drop out. Trump lost a debate to Kamala, that didn't change anything, did it?

[Polybius]

11. There was another debate planned too, in September

Perhaps he would have done much better.

[Silent Type]

15. I'm sorry, no one was going to forget about that debate. I watched it and was shocked, and I'm close to Biden's age.

Everytime Biden walked slowly, stiffly onto a rally stage, people would be reminded. It was over for him, and the excuses were really weak.

I love Joe Biden, but it was over for him. Harris was our only hope at that point.

[LisaL]

16. Why aren't all the stupid things Trump said and did make it all over for him?

Trump can't even speak in coherent sentences anymore.

[oldmanlynn]

19. With a open primary maybe a better candidate would have come through

Biden chose harris and it was done. I backed harris the entire time but i felt Gavin Newsom was a better candidate.

We have to put the best candidate forward not just the best woman or the best African American. We have to put the best candidate forward.

But it way more than that. A convicted felon who called fallen military veterans suckers and losers win because of heavy propaganda and misinformation.

We did not counter that properly or even Harris would have won

[riversedge]

20. Pres Biden aged over the 3 plus years--and it was noticeable. ...

And you are right--I do think we would have lost even more had Biden run.

I am reminded that Biden had to leave the campaign trial --I think it was Nevada--it was a state out West because Covid caught him the second time--this was before the debate. Having Covid the second time was not good for Biden--as we can see. It just was not his age is what I am saying.

[krawhitham]

28. Sure he had a bad performance, but he clearly won the debate, he was the one NOT lying EVERY sentence

Reading just the transcript makes it a lot clearer, Joe won hands down

[Silent Type]

38. Love Joe Biden, but the biggest clip from that debate was trump saying, "I don't know what he just said, and I don't

think he does either" after the awful response to a question.

[krawhitham]

31. Biden's poor debate performance had almost no impact on voter preference, say report

from Northeastern, Harvard, University of Rochester, Rutgers

https://news.northeastern.edu/2024/07/09/biden-debate-performance-voter-preferences/
https://www.chip50.org/reports/no-change-evaluating-the-short-term-impact-of-the-presidential-debate-on-voter-preferences

[Silent Type]

39. We were all trying to explain away Biden's debate performance when that article was written on July 9.

[Septua]

22. I agree with that.

But I kept thinking all the wouldbe Biden votes would go to Harris. Was I ever wrong...

[kentuck]

8. But why?

That is the question that has to be asked.

[BeyondGeography]

9. Harris made the race respectable IMO

And I doubt we hold onto four battleground Senate seats in WI, MI, AZ and NV without her.

Biden was headed for epic blowout territory after the June debate. We had major turnout problems even with a candidate who destroyed Trump in a debate and campaigned her butt off. Biden couldn’t do either of those things and if he had hung in there we would have lost not just the battlegrounds but places like NM, VA, MN, NH and even NJ as it turned out.

[Septua]

23. ..major turnout problem...

And that's probably what beat Kamala.

[ificandream]

10. The Repugs painted everything in a false light. And you had Fox cheerleading for them.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Democrats ran a great campaign. It's the stupidity of the voters that failed them. As I said in 2016, the stupids won (again).

And I know a lot of people are saying we'll never come out of this. I disagree. We will. And it will start on Jan. 20. Slowly but surely, we will.

[onetexan]

12. Stop this blame game mudslinging crap

[FBaggins]

35. A laudable goal - but there is no way for that to occur

We lost fairly substantially in a race that many expected to win. There is no way to avoid the painful process of figuring out how the party should respond.

[valleyrogue]

13. People stayed home. Again it is their own fault, not Kamala's, not Joe's. Voters. Period. n/t

[LisaL]

14. Turnout was better than in 2016.

Certainly not the lowest on record. I don't think we can blame low turnout for this.

[FBaggins]

34. Indeed - turnout was the highest in the last century except for 2020.

67% vs 65% is not a turnout problem.

[JohnSJ]

17. Actually the American people lost. They are just too dumb to realize it yet.

[FBaggins]

18. It is indeed nonsensical

Closer to reality to say that Biden didn’t win four years ago… Trump lost. So many millions showed up to vote against him who would otherwise not have votes at all.

[LisaL]

21. Why did they not show up this time?

[FBaggins]

24. They were no longer motivated to vote against him

Fascism/Hitler/End of Democracy wasn't something that resonated with them. And they probably no longer blame him for Covid

Note that we should not just compare this vote with 2020. The population of registered voters has not changed all that much from 2016 either - yet (with millions of votes yet to be counted) Harris outperformed Clinton by five million votes.

Harris got Democrats to turn out. What she failed to do was get the non-democrat anti-Trump vote to care enough to show up this time - and she lost a not-insignificant number of people who used to vote reliably democrat

[NNadir]

25. No, the United States and the World Beyond lost.

[Rigpa108]

26. Kamala did not lose.

She ran a great campaign. She was a very qualified candidate. She did everything right. It is the electorate who lost. It is the American people who lost.

[magicarpet]

27. Team trDUMP capitalized on the discontent of the young male voting block.

The incels, the White supremacist, the frat-boys, the militia groups - most of these boys were so upset that White male privilege no longer seemed to be working for them - but no political party seemed to care.

djt the consummate circus ring Grand Master or ceremonies promised to fill that gap. Helping the poor, lonely, stuck in a rut incels feel better about their lives. Giving them the green light to be rude, ruthless, hurtful, hateful, threatening, while vomiting up their venemous male toxicity in polite and civilized quarters.

Along came the Orange Messiah who promised to give them everything they desired,... validated their hate of the "OTHERS", then with groups like Turning Point with Charlie Kirk registered these disaffected males to vote. Played the songs and music these boys wanted to hear while turning this messaging up full blast during the duration of trDUMP's 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 presidential campaign.

²Talk about a well grease propaganda and brainwashing machine Team trDUMP, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel and a shit boatload of others hyper rich played their cards just right. Hooked the DISSATISFIED younger male demographic in, registered them to vote - (which they were not inclined to do previously), spoon fed them the poison and hatred they already had an appetite for, them marched them to the polling booth to vote for Team trDUMP.

Here we are today.

Team trDUMP and Project 2025 will now inflict massive austerity programs to slash anything considered an "entitlement" or "discretionary spending" program so more trillion tax breaks can again go to the hyper rich - that are soon to expire.

The Fascist trDUMP Bros who push djt over the finish line will not gain one benefit from these Christo-Fascist slash and burn austerity programs dreamt up by Team trTUMP, The Heritage Foundation, and/or Project 2025.

A world of economic pain will raindown on the 99% professional and working class Americans. While the filthy rich stuff trillions upon trillions more money in their pockets and bank accounts.

The Fascist younger trDUMP Bros will not be spared from the economic hurt and pain soon to come crashing down upon us - after having returned djt to the White House with little to no restraints or guardrails remaining in place to stop this Fascist madness.

[CentralMass]

30. An alternative narrative is should Biden have been thrown under the bus after that debate ?

I don't think so. I believe he would have overcome the setback. No knock on Kamala Harris who ran a great campaign but the day that Biden dropped out I expressed my doubts that the otherside would vote for her. It looks some of "our side" didn't vote fot her either. There is too much misogyny and racism.
I think Nancy Pelosi threw Biden under the bus and now she is trying to back it up over him. This is on the Dem hierarchy/elite, not Biden.

[Initech]

32. I still don't buy that a record turnout had 15 million fewer votes than 2020.

Something does not pass the smell test.

[FBaggins]

33. Your numbers are incorrect

There were 155.5million votes between the major party candidates in 2020.

The current count between Harris and Trump is 145.5 million. So it's far too late to be talking about 15 million fewer votes.

California alone has between five and six million votes still uncounted - and those are not the only votes missing from the total.

[Septua]

36. "California alone has between five and six million votes still uncounted"

I had not been considering yet to be counted votes. Kamala could end up winning the popular vote?

That would severely upset Trump's "mandate" and get him back in the rigged election mode.

[FBaggins]

37. Not much of a chance there

She's dominating in California—but not by that much. California appears to have shifted red like much of the country. Biden won the state by about 30 points, but Harris is winning by closer to 20 points. He probably wins the popular vote by about two million.

[Septua]

40. If I'm reading the link right, the uncounted votes are 10M

But it won't change the electoral win for Trump.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/verify/elections-verify/unaccounted-2024-votes-20-million-18-million-fact-check/536-4a6cb71e-fb8d-4616-a848-f22c53ccf3b2