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struggle4progress

(120,371 posts)
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:25 PM Nov 10

James Carville: why we lost

James Carville focuses on the challenges faced by the Democratic Party, the importance of winning elections, and the need for a strategic reassessment of their approach. He reflects on identity politics, missed opportunities in recent elections, and emphasizes the necessity of a strong campaign infrastructure. Carville calls for unity and action among Democrats to effectively address the current political landscape and regain power.

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James Carville: why we lost (Original Post) struggle4progress Nov 10 OP
Go Away!! SoCalDavidS Nov 10 #1
100% Babajida Nov 10 #4
That was mostly here. Fish700 Nov 11 #62
Didn't watch the video but Elessar Zappa Nov 10 #2
Post removed Post removed Nov 10 #3
What do you disagree with? flamingdem Nov 10 #10
He has ForgedCrank Nov 10 #21
Your second to last sentence misanthrope Nov 11 #46
That's fascinating flamingdem Nov 11 #50
Well said flamingdem Nov 11 #49
Yeah I wonder if he has Bell's palsy BannonsLiver Nov 11 #69
I've seen ForgedCrank Nov 11 #71
Did he mention "woke" as a problem? ThePartyThatListens Nov 10 #40
Do ANY of the experts who are telling us what the Harris Team did wrong start Tadpole Raisin Nov 10 #5
People thought she would win because she kept proving herself as decent and competent JI7 Nov 10 #12
I'm more interesting in hearing from Michael Moore Polybius Nov 10 #6
This is from before the election and no longer flamingdem Nov 10 #13
No, he's hiding Polybius Nov 11 #44
Moore supported Nader in 2000 GoreWon2000 Nov 10 #23
Professional yakker wins either way, more to yak about. CoopersDad Nov 10 #7
The first president in decades to slightly lower income inequality is Biden karynnj Nov 10 #28
More accurately, Bill Clinton. marble falls Nov 11 #57
None of them ever addressed the deep down seething hate for Dem & LIbs that gnaws at them 24/7. Hotler Nov 10 #8
hmmm Kali999 Nov 11 #53
I'm refering to specific policies inacted by Dems & Libs that actully harm the repugs quality of life. Hotler Nov 11 #60
What Rush Limbaugh did until the day he died. Kid Berwyn Nov 11 #55
Agreed fmdaddio Nov 10 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 10 #32
Joe Rogan is a stupid motherfucker. He bent the goddamn knee when Orange Bastard smacked the shit outta him for RFK endo SoFlaBro Nov 10 #38
There was a guy named Howard Stern at one time. Klarkashton Nov 10 #34
She is a woman. That is all Freddie Nov 10 #11
That's obviously not all flamingdem Nov 10 #14
Obama was never a woman. LisaL Nov 10 #17
Women are always at the bottom GoreWon2000 Nov 10 #24
I am not buying it. Women Senate candidates in NV, MN, WI, and MI outperformed VP Harris. Why? nt kelly1mm Nov 11 #41
They weren't running for the top job GoreWon2000 Nov 11 #42
If the 'good old boys network' is limited to just the Presidency of the United States then thats kelly1mm Nov 11 #48
Disappointing you don't understand the hardships GoreWon2000 Nov 11 #67
If your following statement is true then how do you explain MN, WI,MI women Senators all kelly1mm Nov 11 #70
You just don't get it GoreWon2000 Nov 12 #75
Forget it, Jake. This is DUtown. Abolishinist Nov 11 #43
Hillary won the popular vote angrychair Nov 11 #45
She's a Black woman Bettie Nov 10 #29
And there 2024 code words... OhioBack2Blue Nov 10 #31
Not that simple IMO Wavelight Nov 10 #16
So at some point either we have to find a way for women to win or fucking not run women. I fucking like option A. SoFlaBro Nov 10 #39
Maybe go back to Howard Deans 50 state strategy TheDemsshouldhireme Nov 10 #15
We lost because the administration had a 40% approval rating and 70% of Americans thought we were on the wrong track. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 10 #18
Yes, hard to make it work flamingdem Nov 10 #19
Random thoughts DemocratSinceBirth Nov 10 #22
Exactly. Xolodno Nov 10 #37
We need better internal polling flamingdem Nov 11 #63
What part of that 70 percent were people who displacedvermoter Nov 12 #76
There is definitely some truth to that. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 12 #81
Again, if 75 or 80 percent of the Republicans you displacedvermoter Nov 12 #82
Has James Carville done anything post-1992? Self Esteem Nov 10 #20
Carville disenfranchising 14 million dem primary voters isn't a good look GoreWon2000 Nov 10 #25
He needs to be put out to pasture. yourout Nov 10 #26
We didn't lose....the Country lost. OAITW r.2.0 Nov 10 #27
Please don't let him on sky. ... Lovie777 Nov 10 #30
We lost because Americans have been fed Trump propaganda by the news media 24-7 for the whole four years since he lost. lees1975 Nov 10 #33
Fuck you, Carville. (nt) Paladin Nov 10 #35
Identity politics? White people haven't voted for a Democrat in 50 years Yavin4 Nov 10 #36
So not long after Nixon misanthrope Nov 11 #47
Exactly. Talk about identity politics! yardwork Nov 11 #59
White people... yardwork Nov 11 #51
We should have known this flamingdem Nov 11 #52
I don't think it was folly on our part. yardwork Nov 11 #54
Then why didn't the convincing work? flamingdem Nov 11 #56
It didn't work because Trump voters were misinformed. or selfish or irrational. yardwork Nov 11 #58
Yes but if we look only at the abortion issue flamingdem Nov 11 #61
I hope the DNC can do that. yardwork Nov 11 #65
The abortion issue mercuryblues Nov 11 #68
Looks like southern Democrats have done the best. Renew Deal Nov 11 #64
Listening to Carville is like panning for gold, oasis Nov 11 #66
Carvel needs to go away 4th gen blue Nov 11 #72
Carville always has the answers after the fact townie Nov 11 #73
WHY ! republianmushroom Nov 11 #74
Why we lost: social media Initech Nov 12 #77
And this ...... Hotler Nov 12 #78
Jon Stewart answered this critique Ndp5 Nov 12 #79
👀 underpants Nov 12 #80
 

SoCalDavidS

(10,599 posts)
1. Go Away!!
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:27 PM
Nov 10

It is fucking pathetic how all these people who told us 5 days ago that Kamala was certain to win, now have to keep their Bullshit going, to support themselves.

I'm done believing or even listening to their Bullshit, and I'm not going to click on a single one of these, so they can get clicks.

Fish700

(148 posts)
62. That was mostly here.
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 10:17 AM
Nov 11

All the MSM reported it was going to be a very close run race. The certain to win folks were mostly a segment of posters here and on Reddit. It got my hopes up two after first being very doubtful after Joe dropped out.

Elessar Zappa

(16,002 posts)
2. Didn't watch the video but
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:29 PM
Nov 10

what’s clear to me is that we need a left wing media ecosystem like the right has built up over the decades. Many Americans live in an alternate reality. We need a way to break through.

Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
10. What do you disagree with?
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:47 PM
Nov 10

I find myself agreeing with most of what he says.

Maybe I'm an old crank too!

ForgedCrank

(2,277 posts)
21. He has
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 04:54 PM
Nov 10

a lot of solid points, if you can ignore the drool running down his chin.
He knows the fundamentals of politics well (yea, an understatement). I've never been a big fan of how vulgar he can be, but he knows what he's talking about.
I think each of us builds a view of what the world should look like in our own ideal conditions, and we are always trying to apply it to other people. And those other people are doing the same thing. We forget about that all to easily and expect complete unity on everything, and when we encounter someone who isn't in step, we reject them outright. That isn't a good strategy at all. In the end, you don't get half of what you want through compromise, you get absolutely nothing. I think that is the premise of what he is saying.
Of course campaigning is a different animal and in his eyes, it's a cut-throat process where you say or do anything necessary to secure a win. while that may be somewhat true, it's a hard one for me to swallow.

misanthrope

(8,268 posts)
46. Your second to last sentence
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 02:08 AM
Nov 11

Is something he learned long ago in the South where politics has always been a "contact sport." It is also part of the reason Southerners can make particularly adept politicians, because they grow up in a place where labyrinthine social custom and superficial cordialities have an exalted role, but those same people can just as easily stab you in back while smiling about it.

It is also the edge Republicans have shown in electoral politics over the last 40 years. They can't govern for shit but when it comes to running for office or maneuvering for position, they are ruthless.

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
50. That's fascinating
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:11 AM
Nov 11

As a northerner now living part time in the south that helps me get this culture better. I really have to wonder how they pull it off.

For this reason Carville still has something to offer..

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
49. Well said
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:09 AM
Nov 11

Thanks for the points. You got to the heart of the matter. I think politics is pretty transactional and idealism cannot get in the way of necessary and smart compromises.

We'll be called hypocritical regardless..

ForgedCrank

(2,277 posts)
71. I've seen
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 02:10 PM
Nov 11

it before, possibly a mild stroke at some point in the past, he didn't even realize it. I don't know his medical history, but that was my first guess.

Tadpole Raisin

(1,561 posts)
5. Do ANY of the experts who are telling us what the Harris Team did wrong start
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:33 PM
Nov 10

the discussion by admitting that THEY were wrong and spend even a few minutes (seconds?) explaining why they thought she would blow the election out of the water.

We lost, ok I know we have to look at all the factors but I don’t want to listen to anyone who isn’t willing to spend at least 50% of the time telling us why THEY were wrong.

If you want to be brutally honest start with yourself!!

JI7

(90,669 posts)
12. People thought she would win because she kept proving herself as decent and competent
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:00 PM
Nov 10

And Trump was a fucked up mess.

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
13. This is from before the election and no longer
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:04 PM
Nov 10

has relevance. Maybe there's something new from him after Kamala lost.

CoopersDad

(2,902 posts)
7. Professional yakker wins either way, more to yak about.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:36 PM
Nov 10

I dismissed him back when he took our party from responsible stewardship to "it's the economy stupid".

I'm a Jimmy Carter Democrat. We have not been doing what we need to do, which is to lean all the way in and challenge income disparity and tax wealth and massive incomes back into submission.

As it is, we might have to wait for an extinction-level event to get things right.

karynnj

(59,980 posts)
28. The first president in decades to slightly lower income inequality is Biden
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 07:05 PM
Nov 10

He might have been more like Carter on that issue.

Hotler

(12,284 posts)
8. None of them ever addressed the deep down seething hate for Dem & LIbs that gnaws at them 24/7.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:39 PM
Nov 10

Sure they dislike the brown skin people but they really, really hate us, why I do not know, maybe it's the 8-hour work day????

Kali999

(60 posts)
53. hmmm
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:18 AM
Nov 11

Forty years of propaganda. Why they hate us. Limbauh O Rielly Tucker pucker Joe Rogan Alex Jones Glenn Beck. O Rielly got a abortion doctor killed. Kock and billionaires play the long game. demonization

Hotler

(12,284 posts)
60. I'm refering to specific policies inacted by Dems & Libs that actully harm the repugs quality of life.
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:46 AM
Nov 11

I know who told them to hate. I was try to narrow the reason down.

Kid Berwyn

(18,125 posts)
55. What Rush Limbaugh did until the day he died.
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:19 AM
Nov 11

Now Putin and his puppets spread the hate via social, TV and everything else that can lie 24/7/366.

fmdaddio

(222 posts)
9. Agreed
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:39 PM
Nov 10

However we do need to find a way to build a media infrastructure that will attract more people. MSNBC is not it. So many people I know spend their time on social media. We need better and entertaining but smarter version of a Joe Rogan for example. The man has a brain the size of a pea, but is wildly popular.

Response to fmdaddio (Reply #9)

SoFlaBro

(3,356 posts)
38. Joe Rogan is a stupid motherfucker. He bent the goddamn knee when Orange Bastard smacked the shit outta him for RFK endo
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:08 PM
Nov 10

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
14. That's obviously not all
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:05 PM
Nov 10

Hillary won in effect and won the popular vote.

Obama won twice.

There's more to it.

GoreWon2000

(1,031 posts)
24. Women are always at the bottom
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 06:53 PM
Nov 10

Both Hilary and V.P. Harris have proved that. A black man is less objectionable than any woman in the wealthy, white, anglo male hierarchy.

GoreWon2000

(1,031 posts)
42. They weren't running for the top job
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 12:07 AM
Nov 11

I have 24 years of experience working on dem election campaigns. I know all too well the bias that women have to deal with and the much harder time they have raising money. Have you not heard of the good old boys network?

kelly1mm

(5,301 posts)
48. If the 'good old boys network' is limited to just the Presidency of the United States then thats
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 08:49 AM
Nov 11

some real progress, no?

My take is it is more of the albatross of the cumulative inflation that occurred during the Biden/Harris administration around her neck, her inability to separate herself from President Biden (the now famous 'The View' clip) and the trans issues that were effectively used as a weapon against her - particularly the inmates and the she's for they/them, he's for you ad.

GoreWon2000

(1,031 posts)
67. Disappointing you don't understand the hardships
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 11:54 AM
Nov 11

that women continue to face in running for office. This is why Emily's list was started in an effort to try to help bridge the campaign funding gap for women. There are too many people who won't vote for a woman for President. That was true in 2016 and now in 2024. It's only been since the early 1990s that women have slowly begun to show up in greater numbers in the Senate. It's been a long tough battle to break through the good old boys network. Women don't get anything close to what the good old boys get in campaign funding. This is also true in business. White men are the preferred group for donating business start up money. Have you ever worked on any women's campaigns? I have and having enough campaign money was always an issue.
The 2024 election was not about the economy as the pro repug media is trying to fool us with. The 2024 election was about maintaining the wealthy white, anglo, christian male patriarchy that has controlled our country since the beginning.

kelly1mm

(5,301 posts)
70. If your following statement is true then how do you explain MN, WI,MI women Senators all
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 01:32 PM
Nov 11

way outpacing VP Harris?

You wrote:

"The 2024 election was not about the economy as the pro repug media is trying to fool us with. The 2024 election was about maintaining the wealthy white, anglo, christian male patriarchy that has controlled our country since the beginning."

How were voters not voting for VP Harris and voting for women Senate candidates on the same ballots reflective of that statement.

Lets even assume for arguments sake that misogyny had a (significant?) effect. Why again was VP Harris and not the others particularly effected?

I posit that all of them were effected by misogyny similarly but VP Harris had other problems that did not effect the others which I detailed before.

GoreWon2000

(1,031 posts)
75. You just don't get it
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 10:36 AM
Nov 12

You don't understand what a big difference running for President is from running for Senate. You clearly don't understand that too many people don't view women as being leaders. You clearly don't understand that women candidates have a much harder time raising campaign money. You also don't seem to be aware of the significant funding disparity between the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts. You don't understand that women earn 83 cents for every dollar men earn because they are perceived as being less valuable. I suggest that you join a women's rights group and work on some campaign's of women running for office to see the disparities women face first hand. I've done exactly that so that's how I know.

angrychair

(9,779 posts)
45. Hillary won the popular vote
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 01:58 AM
Nov 11

And once all the votes are counted Harris will when the popular vote as well (71 million and counting). The majority of Americans wanted both of them. TSF will be the first candidate in history to lose the popular vote three times in a row.

Wavelight

(461 posts)
16. Not that simple IMO
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:24 PM
Nov 10

It's probably one of the factors, but it's down on the list.

The postmortem on this will take a while but put me in the camp of disinformation/misinformation. The right-wing media machine is unparalleled—Fox News, X/Twitter, Newsmax and then all of the streamers. I heard online that the top 10 in “traffic” for streamers who express a political affiliation were all on the right. These are impossible hurdles for lower information voters to overcome.

SoFlaBro

(3,356 posts)
39. So at some point either we have to find a way for women to win or fucking not run women. I fucking like option A.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:09 PM
Nov 10
15. Maybe go back to Howard Deans 50 state strategy
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:31 PM
Nov 10

I work for an organization in south central PA covering 10 counties. I bet there is only one or two of those counties that has a democratic office. The votes in just these 10 counties wiped out the gains in Allegheny County(Pittsburgh). As Obama said you have to lose those counties by smaller margins, where Hillary did much worse than Obama and Harris did worse than Biden. We have to start having a presence and talking to people in rural counties. If not, enjoy losing them by 70-30 plus and being in the minority where your only power is the filibuster. In 2008 we had a county office, no more.

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,330 posts)
18. We lost because the administration had a 40% approval rating and 70% of Americans thought we were on the wrong track.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:28 PM
Nov 10

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,330 posts)
22. Random thoughts
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 05:42 PM
Nov 10

Kamala ran the best campaign she could facing strong headwinds. She had the wind at her face, not at her back. I'm lucky. The high prices didn't really bother me but I can see them bothering the less fortunate. Still I could see the price of food rising and some times by a lot. I always buy the generic alternative except when it comes to pop. I shouldn't really be drinking pop anyway. Every incumbent party has lost the their bid for reelection when the president had low approval ratings. Stevenson lost, Humphrey lost, Carter lost, Bush Pere lost, and John McCain lost. Trump's awfulness makes the pain worse. Racism exists. Misogyny exists. Paternalism exists but what ultimately sunk us was Biden's low approval rating, undeserved in my opinion but my opinion isn't dispositive and so many Americans thinking we're on the wrong track.

Xolodno

(6,728 posts)
37. Exactly.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:07 PM
Nov 10

When you are using your credit card to buy necessary groceries, its not going to turn out well. Add to the fact there were polls that put Harris in the negative and everyone here pissed on them. Maybe some should have listened before we believed our own bullshit? I'll say it again, some probably didn't bother to vote or lodged a protest vote. And again, it doesn't make sense, but people don't make rational decisions when emotional.

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
63. We need better internal polling
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 10:18 AM
Nov 11

at a minimum.

I'd like to know more about why people didn't vote.

The right wing media exhausted them?

displacedvermoter

(3,123 posts)
76. What part of that 70 percent were people who
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 11:49 AM
Nov 12

thought the country IS "on the wrong track" because one of our two major parties is composed of crazy people, and the voters seem happy with that.

And the media never, ever, frames this particularly stupid stat in that context. And people on DU or in the media who want to bash our party never do either.

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,330 posts)
81. There is definitely some truth to that.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 01:17 PM
Nov 12

A lot of people are unhappy with Trump hovering over our politics. That being said Biden's approval ratings are less ambiguous.

displacedvermoter

(3,123 posts)
82. Again, if 75 or 80 percent of the Republicans you
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 02:39 PM
Nov 12

ask about Biden's performance all tell you it sucks, as they are duty bound to say so, and only a quarter of the Dems you ask say the same thing, the numbers are skewed even before independent voters are factored in.

But it doesn't matter, his poor approval ratings were baked in and rehashed during the weekly trips to the diners of Kentucky and Indiana made by the media. It was part of the narrative. Hi

lees1975

(6,019 posts)
33. We lost because Americans have been fed Trump propaganda by the news media 24-7 for the whole four years since he lost.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 07:46 PM
Nov 10

We have no free press any more, and few qualified journalists who are articulate enough, and can think critically enough to report fairly.

We lost because we did not get out in front of the issues of inflation and the price increases that came with it, and we did not have the ability to do any real mass saturation of media to counter the flagrant lies of Trump.

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
52. We should have known this
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:17 AM
Nov 11

It was folly to think white women would change their party vote because of the abortion issue.

yardwork

(64,546 posts)
54. I don't think it was folly on our part.
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:19 AM
Nov 11

Hoping that people will be reasonable is not folly, especially when so many people worked so hard to inform voters.

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
56. Then why didn't the convincing work?
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:22 AM
Nov 11

I think abortion was low on the list compared to the economy and immigration.

The it can't happen to me thing. Repubs don't have much room for empathy in their brains.
Studies have been done..

yardwork

(64,546 posts)
58. It didn't work because Trump voters were misinformed. or selfish or irrational.
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 09:39 AM
Nov 11

Who knows all the reasons people chose to vote for Trump. All I know is that it's not because we had bad candidates or bad messaging.

People are using sports metaphors to say that "the losing team" needs to figure out what they did wrong. That approach works well when you're playing a game on a level playing field, with rules both teams follow that are enforced by objective referees, where all the spectators see what's happening on the field. Nothing could be further from this past election. Throw that metaphor away. It's not relevant to this election.

Part of the road to fascism is discouraging the rational people so that we lose confidence and question ourselves. Don't fall into that.

Those of us who voted for Kamala Harris and enthusiastically supported her ticket did not engage in folly. We engaged in rational, thoughtful optimism. Good for us!

flamingdem

(39,936 posts)
61. Yes but if we look only at the abortion issue
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 10:14 AM
Nov 11

there could be some conclusions there about what people will and will not vote for - and how the messaging has been interrupted by right wing media.

IMO, we have to learn from this and make changes to the messaging and focus.

Also, we were pretty convinced that she would win. Somehow we need better predictive tools.

mercuryblues

(15,132 posts)
68. The abortion issue
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 12:39 PM
Nov 11

trump has said many different things.

He took responsibility for appointing the judges then struck down RvW.

He said that his plan was to leave it up to the sates, and he disagreed with how far some states are going, but it is up to them to decide.

He wants some sort of punishment for women who seek abortion.

Wants a national abortion ban.

republicans choose to hear, that the states can decide the issue and if a woman wants an abortion, she can get one.

States are trying to pass travel bans for women the suspect are pregnant. They are also trying to get medical records of women who seek medical care out of state.

Then they are freaking shocked when they have a pregnancy crisis and can't get an abortion to save their life.

Democrats have tried to tell them women would die because of these laws, and they will not give a shit until it happens to them.
They can justify it happening to other women, because they weren't pure enough to carry a child. God's will and all.

Republicans are all the same, they can give a shit about anything unless it happens to them. That is what trump counts on. Men will never die because of a bad pregnancy.

republianmushroom

(17,853 posts)
74. WHY !
Mon Nov 11, 2024, 03:06 PM
Nov 11

16M non-voters, 12M-D, 4M-R. 11% of the vote. No one mentions this.
3/4 Democrats,
1/4 Republican,
..hmm, how does that happen? Do I hear De-registration fraud.

I keep seeing reports of single digit percentages making the difference. Worthless!

They successfully deleted our win.
To de-registration,
Add WSJ-FOX, WP, X, ... giving credibility to bothsiderism.
Add social media recurring memes' every few minutes versus one of our on one visits ONE time in many many months.
Add laser guided social media hitting a ripe susceptible target over and over again.
Add compelling lies from think tanks.

It doesn't have to be our message that fails.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219704186

Initech

(102,172 posts)
77. Why we lost: social media
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 11:50 AM
Nov 12

Seriously, Trump was every other post 24 hours a day since January. Never heard one fucking peep about Kamala or Biden. Not one.

Saved you a watch.

Hotler

(12,284 posts)
78. And this ......
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 12:02 PM
Nov 12

54% of Americans are literate to just below a sixth grade level.
51% of those voting chose fascist dictatorship over democracy.

Ndp5

(87 posts)
79. Jon Stewart answered this critique
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 12:28 PM
Nov 12

Ok, I don’t have time to listen to the entire play-by-play of which op-eds Carville wrote when and who said mean things about him in response.

I will say that Carville seems a lot more engaged and knowledgeable about the gross paleo-macho social circles that Trump inhabits — because they mirror the gross social circles that Bill Clinton inhabits — than he is on the fate of the broader country. Also, who cares how old Kimberly Whatshername is? By the looks of things, gravity has been at least as unkind to Carville and Clinton as it has been to her.

I don’t agree with everything Jon Stewart has said about this election and find it unconscionable that he’s laughing about the result when he has a young daughter who has to come of age in Trump’s America. But Monday night, he gave a good answer to some of what Carville said. Which basically, as far as I can tell, boils down to the old Clinton team standby: steal the Republicans’ playbook.

Also, whatever you think of the handoff from Biden to Harris, there’s just no way Democrats could have given the nomination to a white candidate over her or a male candidate over her and not lost a lot of minority and female voters. And besides, there was no time, thanks to Biden.

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