a woman whose anger needs to be paid attention to

[DonCoquixote]

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2024, 05:54 PM - Edit history (2)

I changed the title of this woman's op because it offended many, but just because it offends some doe snot mean the problem it outlines is not real

[hlthe2b]

1. Thank you for adding more blame and recriminations to those of us who fought as hard as we could and are

the target of MAGA as ALL women are.

I have had the worst week of my life--including directly saving lives in my ER of those who declared that my body now belongs to THEM with their MAGA hats and who now think they have license to disrespect me every hour of the day.

So now, I get to see THIS? Thanks, DonCoquixote, very much. NOT. And don't you dare patronize me further by telling me to "just watch the video and that I will undoubtedly agree with her." Well, I might on many issues, but the subject title alone is enough to make me want to throw something through my screen.

DONQUIXOTE, PLEASE STOP!!!

[wryter2000]

2. Unfortunately

White women continue to vote for Trump. Not a huge majority, but a majority.

[hlthe2b]

4. NO WHITE WOMAN (other than trolls) on DU DID and this blame is divisive as hell.

Defending it is incomprehensible, wryter2000 and not merely insensitive.

[wryter2000]

5. The speaker is not addressing DU

I guess you can take offense that someone posted it here but not that the woman made the video.

[hlthe2b]

8. It is a divisive post for a group on DU at a time when ALL WOMEN are being targeted by MAGA. That you defend

this call-out of a group on DU isitself indefensible.

[JustAnotherGen]

15. The OP chose to focus on the top of the video

2:26 seconds it takes a very different turn.

What I do agree with in the video - Blue Bracelets and Womens' Marches are worthless. Didn't do a damn thing the last time.

If that group is going to lead the Resistance - they need to do something else.

[hlthe2b]

21. It is patronizing to defend this. Shame on you. All women on DU are hurting and this blame misogyny is WRONG.

[JustAnotherGen]

24. I'm not patronizing you

Or anyone else.

I put that patronizing squarely on the OP - who chose to focus on taking a pot shot at Liberal and Progressive Women.

But in all black spaces (Sunday dinner at my house yesterday) - the women - including myself -

Were vocal at our anger about ONE selfish self-serving community who thinks I'm going to come to their defense when Trump comes for them.

Black women are not here for that. Uh uh no way. Not gonna do it.

And I'd only support a woman's march if it is going to be as brutal and chaotic as January 6th.

ETA - Angela Davis wouldn't play nice if she was a young woman today. She simply wouldn't. And neither would Shirley Chisholm or Harriet.

[hlthe2b]

29. You most certainly ARE!

and promulgating divisive misogynistic blame on this forum. SHAME ON YOU!

[JustAnotherGen]

31. See - what you are doing?

You won't let a black woman have an opinion that differs from yours.

Shame on you.

[hlthe2b]

36. I am not attacking any black woman, nor would I. DID you even read the OP subject line? Good gawd

So now you are determined to divide based on gender AND race TOO as the OP clearly did for those who are ALL under attack? Really? ALL women. ALL. Regardless of race, ethnicity, or status (while some don't realize that- who were ignorant enough to throw away their vote or chance to do so).

[JustAnotherGen]

43. You did

You are accusing me of being a mysoginist who hates white women and wants to divide us. "Shame on you is really demeaning."

I've given you so many chances over the years. No more.

[hlthe2b]

53. I reread one longer post of yours to me where you clearly put blame on the OP so I feel that I misinterpreted

the point you were trying to make. I am sorry for that misunderstanding. I see now that your were not trying to attack others as some on this thread clearly are.

[JustAnotherGen]

56. Thank you

But - I won't trust a blue bracelet. I could see Magats using one of their women to lure us - so the men can harm us.

I no longer believe that people are generally good. I just don't.

[hlthe2b]

59. I agree with you on this--totally.

[LizBeth]

111. I am not labeling myself either. I clearly am what I am every moment of my being, easily seen,

never confused.

[Odious justice]

288. the problem with your response is....

everyone can read the OP.

[LisaL]

26. And if we are talking about white women as a group.

As far as I can tell, Harris did better with white women as a group than Biden did. So clearly white women as a group is not the reason that Harris lost the election.

[happy feet]

132. Uh, no.

Biden received higher percentage of white women votes than kamala. period.

[LauraInLA]

180. I just found the AP data, and both Biden and Harris both received 46% of white women's votes.

[LisaL]

10. Then why is it posted here?

NT

[JustAnotherGen]

46. Ask the OP

[ariadne0614]

81. The OP is giving one woman space to express her true feelings.

I didn’t feel at all maligned. I only felt my heart expanding to meet her where she is.

[LisaL]

87. The OP isn't giving her a "space."

Youtube has given her this space. OP for whatever reason decided to post it here.
I am not sure what your race is, but if it is white, don't bother to meet her where she is, she clearly says you are not welcome.

[ariadne0614]

151. I meant that the OP gave her space on DU, a place that should be safe.

I’m half Norwegian and half Mexican, and I don’t expect her to make me feel welcome.

[Mossfern]

168. "She" hasn't been given space on DU - her video has

It offends me that she makes accusations and refuses to hear (read) comments from those she accuses.
There were plenty of white women who supported Harris - yet she shut them down. Why bring that here when all of the white women who post here supported Harris.

[electric_blue68]

184. It's showing a different opinion of some Black Women who feel incredibly betrayed....

expecting, hoping White Women in general would vote better in this election.

[Mossfern]

186. White women were betrayed too

Sheesh!
I don't approve of videos that insult me and then cut off communication.

Please tell me why Black women were betrayed more than white women who voted for Harris.
Yes, racists voted for Trump, but all white women aren't racists.

[electric_blue68]

189. Of couse, we as white women have been betrayed by the majority of our "fellow" white women...

but Black Women have a an extra layer of experience starting from nasty to deadly with either certain White citizens, LOEs, or government institutions blanketly or individual officials within.

As I said I'm guessing the Black Woman in that vid felt that more White Women would vote for Kamala. Didn't happen! 😑😔🤬

[Mossfern]

194. Yes, I know

but as to the topic of this thread, White women were told to shut up.

I worked in Social services as a case manager for a welfare to work type program, I know what difficulties the Black community endures.

This is a separate issue - and I don't appreciate being told to shut up.

[electric_blue68]

198. Since you worked in Social Services I'd guess you'd have certain educational background to get an initial at least...

expression of betrayal pain on a blanket level.

She may remain inconsolable, she may change her mind later.

[Mossfern]

199. You don't feel betrayed by women who voted for Trump?

I think we all feel that pain.
Discrimination against minorities is a separate issue.

Why would that woman alienate women who supported Harris?
Personally, I supported Harris because she was the best candidate with the best platform ... gender and color were not a factor.

[electric_blue68]

200. What on earth gives you that idea? Of course I feel Extremely Disgusted...

alright, maaaaybe I didn't say "betrayed" somewhere. So, yeah, that too.

And distraught over all, still in partial disbelief.

Or maybe unconsciously I thought non college white women would still go more for drumphf. Idk.
Yes, I know somewell educateed women , and men support fascists

[Mossfern]

203. Of course you feel betrayed

I was just trying to make a point.

I felt that the woman in the video wasn't understanding that, and in her fury at the situation lashed out at women who are her allies....even though they may happen to be white.

I also think that it was poor judgement to post that particular video here at DU.

As an aside: I don't personally go for the blue bracelet thing, nor did I go for the pussy hat thing. Such demonstrations may help a person to feel better, but are not very effective in changing minds or policy.
I do think that I will get more involved in my local League of Women Voters though. Where I live, they trend Blue.

[electric_blue68]

205. Like I said she's in extra pain, and lashing out blanketly. As for the...

blue bracelets, highly unlikely for me.

If I'd had been a fast knitter (oh, I am so not!😄 ) might have made hat.

[Mossfern]

256. My issue is.....Why bring that here?

When I'd bet that most of us are feeling pain.
How did the OP think that would help, except to rub salt in our very fresh wounds?

[soandso]

216. Joy Reid said the same

Link to tweet

[wnylib]

190. I object to the view of the woman in the video

that the election was solely about the issues of Black people or of Black women.

It is divisive because she is race blaming. And that is unacceptable on DU. Does not matter thst she is not directly addressing DU. It is posted on DU.

Black women, White women, Latina women, Native women, Asian women are all experiencing the devastating risk of their health and lives, with some of us dying and others horribly traumatized by nearly dying before being treated.

Aside from women's issues, all Americans, male and female, will suffer from President Felon's fascist regime. All Americans now risk losing health insurance and health care, daily life-saving meds, housing due to higher costs of everything. Immigrants risk detainment in prison camps. People who worked hard to win the election face retaliation with investigations, charges, possible imprisonment.

Staying together to look after each other is our best hope. There is no place for such division among us.

[DonCoquixote]

219. part of unity

is finding out what caused the division. There is a hole that the gop has exploited, and we need to patch it. Yes, I know many women of a light skin did vote for harris, and I appreciate them. But I am sure these same women will se that their friend voted the other way, and did not have the guts to own what they did. I want us to stay together, but as in any relationship, we need to honestly see where we are, and how we got here.

[electric_blue68]

234. If I as a white woman found out any of my white friends voted for drumphf...

I'd be shocked.
I try to pick my white friends carefully since I was young.

[wnylib]

254. The woman in the video has already decided

how we got here. She has assumed that all White women are responsible for the outcome because she has lumped all White women into one group.

And yet, we know that Latino support for Trump, especially among Latino men, increased in this election. We also know that there was voter suppression in the form of removing eligible voters from the rolls. There were bomb threats at some locations. Yes, those sites reopened after being checked, but how many people remained at those polls to vote after the site was cleared? How many people heard of the threat and stayed away?

Why did Harris get less support among Black voters than Biden did? Did White women cause that?

I can understand anger over the White women who voted for Trump. Black people are not the only ones who are angry about the outcome. Extending anger to include White women who voted for Harris is divisive and does not an answer the question of how we got here. It does not even ask the question.

Would she now reject unity in resisting the the racist, misogynistic government that is looming over all of us and reject unity in helping the people who will be most harmed by it?

[DonCoquixote]

262. I am angry at Latino men

and I AM a Latino man, although I have ceased to find any comfort or even identity as they have willingly infested themselves with the GOP parasite. I can admit this poster does lack subtlety, but questions remain. I do not to be here 2028 and find ourselves in the same spot again, where the work we all do is undermined by people who will tell us they hate trump, but then they go into the booth.

Yes, there DOES need to be an examination of vote tampering, should have been since 2008.
Yes, there DOES and I mean DOES need to be an investigation of this election where Black districts in Georgia were threated with BOMBS! We can bet the FBI won't get on that because they are too busy wondering when Trump will fire them.

But we do need a plan of consistent, persistent action to make sure we are not in this again. Can it mean that you have some unpleasant conversations with friends and family? I know from experience that it does.

and yes, I do appreciate the many women , white and black, and yellow and all shades beyond and between that did vote for Harris , that worked to get her on. All I am saying is that whatever we are doing, the GOP has found a crack in the ramparts, which we need to fix, and note, I do say we, because whatever acrimony was caused by a tiktok video, we will need to. To quote Ben Franklin, "we must all hang together, or we will all hang separetely." All I want is to work stop the Gallows from being prepped.

[electric_blue68]

231. She's feeling extremely betrayed, people can lash out in a general way under these conditions...

Of course women over all will suffer. Along with every other vunerable group of people, and those in intersecting groups you've mentioned!

Imho, her pain is important to hear, even while being uncomfortable.
She may change in time.

[wnylib]

257. I'm feeling betrayed, too. I am not lashing out

at an entire demographic. I am directing my feeling of betrayal at Trump voters. I am not directing it at Harris voters who fall into the demographic.

Now more than ever we need to be united in resisting the coming racist, misogynistic government and in helping each other get through it. Creating division at this time aids them in dividing and conquering.

[mchill]

279. She's addressing White women who "wear blue bracelets"

Wrong crowd to be directing her malice toward. This is helping nothing.

[Baitball Blogger]

19. You know how we can differentiate white women who voted for Trump vs Kamala Harris?

Blue bracelets. Yes, it's that simple.

[JustAnotherGen]

48. What if it is a trick by MAGA

To draw us close so they can grab black women and lynch us?

[electric_blue68]

230. I thought the poster above was being sacastic about the blue bracelets....

Considering the worst racists' track records, and what drumphf turned over; your fear is not unfounded. Unfortunately!

[Patton French]

67. Well, the video starts out by criticizing white women for wearing those blue bracelets.

So there's that.

[Baitball Blogger]

70. And what's your point? It's just their opinion.

They don't realize the isolation that many of us find us in. And, quite frankly, I missed the part where blue bracelets only represented support for black people. A first step for many of us in Red counties, is just to begin to make eye contact. Maybe we'll be ready to organize by the next election.

[Patton French]

74. My point is that the video is not directed to white women Trump voters, as some have suggested.

I see it as odd to attack white women who for voted for Kamala and are now doing things like wearing blue bracelets. People doing that seem genuine to me.

[Baitball Blogger]

80. Okay, and I agree with you.

I think the problem is that people are taking out their frustrations on their own allies, because we're truly confused by what happened. None of it makes sense. Frankly, where I live, no one seems to cross race or culture lines. So no one's opinions are going to affect me. When the Democratic party can figure out how to bridge that gap in Florida, they will be closer to winning elections.

[Red Mountain]

92. You can take a bracelet off

skin tone, not so much.

Blue bracelet tattoos, anyone?

[Baitball Blogger]

109. Yes, the Right has made it easier for black Americans to recognize political friendlies.

At least 80% of them will identify with the Democratic party. For Latina Americans, the percentage is much lower, and because of all the fear that exists in the world, they will be less inclined to be as friendly as they once were.

And white women? Forget it. I wouldn't venture there unless there was a clear way to identify them.

[1WorldHope]

126. "They don't realize the isolation that many of us find us in."

Really?

[Baitball Blogger]

128. They have each other.

Which is HUGE.

As a bi-cultured American, I understand both cultures, but I have no feeling of sisterhood or comradery from either.

[1WorldHope]

134. I may have misread your comment.

My point is that white women need to SDSFU when a black woman is telling them how hurt or angry she/they are. All women are discriminated against, but black women have suffered far more and far longer than we (white woman here) have suffered.

[Baitball Blogger]

145. I respect that she had an opinion, but are you saying that we're suppose to respond by NOT buying the bracelets for our

own purposes.

Look, I fully understand that it's impossible to say words of sympathy to black Americans because we can never understand what they've been through and we will always fall short. Though this is what causes hindrances to developing strong relationships, the reality is that unless we're neighbors and can have opportunities to build bonds of trust, there isn't much more we can do, besides quietly listen.

Listening is one thing. We can do that. Unless they come out and tell us what action would actually be effective, what else can we do but listen? On the other hand, if they're claiming that the blue bracelets are ineffective, which I would agree, I would also claim that they're harmless. Or, as I pointed out, it might help Dem women identify each other and make efforts to get to know each other.

[1WorldHope]

158. I'm really not focusing on the bracelet.

I guess if we (white women) would have shown up in the polls like our lives depended on it, that would have been a good action and a good 1st step to bridging our cultures. I respect her anger and I don't blame her one bit. I know that I am angry as hell and find myself trusting everyone a little less.

[Baitball Blogger]

163. Understood and agree,

[electric_blue68]

232. Since Black women carry the additional scourge of racism, it's understandible for her to feel more betrayed thinking..

more white women would have voted against drumphf in particular bc of increasingly threats against choice.

[Baitball Blogger]

293. Yes, that was understood.

We're all frustrated. Kamala Harris was a great candidate. She would have made a phenomenal president.

[happy feet]

131. Yes, really. Hi

[1WorldHope]

165. Hi.

Not sure if you were commenting to me exactly, but, I didn't want to leave you without a "hi" back at you.

[electric_blue68]

292. As someone who lives in mostly blue NYC when election results are particularly onerous and you are few in the Dem...

column it must feel dispiriting at times.

I have friends, and acquaintences in TX, and FL that are surrounded by drumphers.

[IzzaNuDay]

105. Anyone can wear a blue bracelet-- even the MAGA

So it rings hollow to me.

[Baitball Blogger]

114. Obviously, one must be cautious about these things.

The other day someone from a Latina Facebook site I belong to tried to befriend me. Her name was Anglo, and she had gone to school in a private religious high school in Texas. And her facebook page was sparse.

Do you think I friended her? Or declined her?

[wryter2000]

112. It's my understanding

The bracelets are supposed to indicate supporting Harris.

Not taking a stand on them one way or another.

[Fullduplexxx]

34. Donald Trump has won the majority of white women voters for the third straight time. Even after destroying abortion ri

Donald Trump has won the majority of white women voters for the third straight time.

Even after destroying abortion rights, even after a judge went to painstaking lengths to clarify that Trump raped E. Jean Carroll, and even as the Harris campaign targeted the imaginary “silent majority” of women hiding their political views from their husbands, 52 percent of white American women showed us who they are: Trump supporters.

[LisaL]

49. Which is an improvement over the share of Biden's and Clinton's votes.

So this one group (white women) is the group we have actually improved with, unlike many other groups.

[happy feet]

133. Not true.

Biden won higher percentage of white women votes than Harris

[electric_blue68]

235. Which is why imho the woman in the vid feels so much more betrayed now...

not enough white women changed!

[Meowmee]

83. It's just more crap and divisiveness

From an idiot trying to get likes etc on yt. Don’t watch it. 🤗

[wryter2000]

3. I have a blue bracelet for something else

I'm leaning toward taking it off.

[Elmotime]

6. Is this how we win elections?

[hlthe2b]

11. Exactly. How the hell is this appropriate when we are all (but especially women) dealing with this horrific outcome?

What next? I shudder to think what misogyny will be allowed on DU next?

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Elmotime?

[Elmotime]

65. My kids grew up on PBS

And would ask "is it elmotime?" kinda became a family phrase.

[SoFlaBro]

7. Any group that voted for Orange Bastard in the majority is to blame for the fucking messy shit we are in.

[LisaL]

9. Then blame men.

NT

[SoFlaBro]

18. I do.

[DonCoquixote]

84. I do too

and I really blamed Latino men who I have previously screamed , but I am not going to patronize black women who have fought like hell, only to go WTF?

[electric_blue68]

233. Which, imho, is why she feels extra betrayed. She thought, hoped more white women would turn against drumphf

but didn't !

[LizBeth]

265. Me too... I am so fuckin pissed, flabbergasted and outraged. I have posted a flip off on FB to ALL

the women specifically who betrayed women. Which I could post it. I am so so so fuckin angry. Why is that betrayal more profound for her? Because I am thinking cause they are such a fuckin embarassment in ,y very own social circle (Stopped hanging or talking to any rwer yrs ago) we are even MORE betrayed, I suggest. Why should white women feel the loss less. Makes NO sense.

[Meowmee]

101. Yep

Funny how they have not posted videos blaming white men, lol, and men of other groups who also voted for him.

[electric_blue68]

169. Perhaps bc we expect better from women ie empathy?

[Meowmee]

171. Perhaps because

They want to attack white women also? it could be a combination of both. But it’s not a reason to excuse all of the men is it? It’s so much easier to attack women in a misogynistic society.

I also just think this is a trollish post in my opinion I didn’t watch the video… I don’t waste my time on this type of thing and I put a lot of people on mute here after the reading what they said. I already started doing a lot of that here when I was attacked myself. I saw things like this posted here for a long time now, the karen stuff, the wipip stuff- it shouldn’t be here imo.

[electric_blue68]

176. I certainly don't excuse misogynist and racist white men.

[Meowmee]

177. Good 😀

So far, I only see people posting this type of thing about women…

[Mossfern]

12. I would sayt any PERSON

Each voter is an individual, not a group. This type of thinking is dangerous.

[karynnj]

37. I agree and it is the root of divisiveness and hatred of the other

All the things the woman in the video should fear.

[karynnj]

35. Blaming groups in their entirety is wrong

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2024, 04:48 PM - Edit history (1)

There are few states whiter than Vermont AND few states that had a lower percent vote for Trump.

Not to mention, groups I identify with were strongly Harris.

Vermont residents
Jews
Jewish women
My large family, stemming from the 9 kids my parents had - I think 100 percent Harris
College educated

I assume this woman would be among the first to react with rage if someone not from her ethnic group would criticize ALL black woman for something a majority of them did. Incidentally, I think she would be entirely correct. You are responsible for what you yourself do or fail to do.

What influence do I, as a senior VT white woman have on other white women, living elsewhere that I have never met.

[happy feet]

136. Actually, I believe she would own figuring out how to be part of the solution-as always

[Crunchy Frog]

290. Every single individual who voted for It, or for Jill Stein, or who just stayed home

is to blame, regardless of demographic characteristics. I'm not including people who were victims of voter suppression.

Groups don't vote, people do. Or maybe I should just start hating everybody in Florida and Texas.

[JustAnotherGen]

13. 2 minutes and 26 seconds in

She States:

And to the Brown Community, Palestinian Supporters, The Arab Community, Muslims . . . yeah we’re done. Were done. And you condescendingly, arrogantly using your platforms to say “Can we now get refocused?” on your issue – now that you’ve sabotaged the success of our issue, yeah – you all can go and kick rocks. Good luck to you

Dear White Women? Really? I'm looking at Dearborn Michigan and not giving a fuck. Yep - a lot of white women need their white knights to beat and suppress them - but a lot voted up and down ballot for Democratics.

What the ProPalestine groups did? They fucked themselves over. Hard.

As she said - "Good luck to you".

As I say - - it was a self-inflicted wound.

[HowlingWulf]

69. Deleted

Deleted

[jalan48]

14. Dear Identity Politics, please stop! You're not helping.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. Tell that to Dearborn Michigan

Where they want us to all come together and focus on their issues again.

I'm too busy trying to figure the right time to sell my house.

[Takket]

44. i wonder what they will say when Jared Kushner and Bibi agree to Kushner leading the redevelopment of Gaza

into an Israeli settlement.

[JustAnotherGen]

52. They'll

Ask me to not worry about the forced sterilization of the young people in my family. That's what the Nazi's did. I would not put it past the Maggot's Administration.

[hlthe2b]

22. Apparently it is fine to continue the misogyny on DU--targeting the very women who are clearly NOT to blame.

[jalan48]

27. It's a about keeping the identity groups squabbling among themselves. Don't Look Up!

[Baitball Blogger]

17. A loss for Kamala Harris, was not just a loss for the black community.

Since I live in a predominately white community I like the idea of wearing blue bracelets, because it makes me feel solidarity with Democratic principles. And it would also help me find a kindred spirit in a sea of conservatives.

So, I disagree, atleast with reference to wearing blue bracelets.

[LisaL]

20. As far as I can tell, Harris actually did better with white women than Biden.

White women isn't the reason Harris lost the election.

[FBaggins]

30. Better than Biden OR Clinton

While support from Black women was actually down three points from Hillary

[pinkstarburst]

33. Her support with white women improved compared to both Biden and Clinton

[happy feet]

137. You keep repeating this untruth

What is the source of your numbers? I,m curious because I saw the opposite (posted on DU)

[LauraInLA]

191. They both got 46% of white women's vote, according to Pew and AP.

[FBaggins]

23. Is there some reason that any of us should care whether or not she's "done"?

The arrogance to think that she speaks for all people with the same gender and skin color- or that she can paint whole swaths of the base (also based on skin color and gender).

The irony of pointing fingers at anyone saying essentially “don’t blame me - I did my part” when her entire premise is that none of this is her fault because she did hers

And while we’re at it… who the heck taught her that this was how speaking respectfully looks?

[electric_blue68]

236. The poster is showing one kind of opinion as uncomfortable as it might feel...

her feeling of extra betrayal since more white women didn't vote against drumph.

[FBaggins]

240. Yes... and I'm criticizing that ridiculous opinion

It’s one thing to feel betrayed by people who actually voted for the other candidate. It’s an entirely different and illogical (though still emotionally understandable) thing to blame everyone in a group for what the overwhelming majority of that group did (as with white men)

But to blame everyone in a group (explicitly including those who voted the same way she did) for something almost half of that group opposed? That’s just not rational. (And there remains a huge split between married/single white women and those with/without college degrees - and those in her chat are likely to be almost exclusively educated single women)

She doesn’t make me feel in the least bit uncomfortable (and my race/gender group voted against my preferences)… it makes me feel sorry for her.

The good news for her though is that it doesn’t matter. She’s preaching to her own YouTube choir. She’s likely to make more money this way than with a more rational response.

[hlthe2b]

25. STOP the MISOGYNY DIVISIVE BLAME ON DU to Donquixote for the OP and all defending the posting.

SHAME ON YOU!

[pinkstarburst]

32. One thing this loss should give us pause to thing about

Is that we need to stop with the blaming and alienating subgroups in posts like this, blaming suburban white women, blaming Hispanics, blaming Arab-Americans, blaming working class voters... only to turn around in 2 years, in 4 years, and beg them to vote for us. It's all over social media and it's not a good look for the party.

If we want those votes, we have to figure out WHY we are not reaching those voters and adjust strategy. Screaming YOU SUCK is not a strategy.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

39. Agree 100%

And to do that, some folks on the Democratic side need to stop with the "the election was stolen".

We lost, big, and while we need time to mourn that loss, at some point (sooner rather than later, I hope), we need to dive into why, and then look at how to do better next time.

[Keepthesoulalive]

51. Please tell me what these groups want

That the democrats aren’t giving them. Why would they want an incompetent white man with enough flaws to fill a New York garbage barge versus an accomplished woman. I think we know the answer.

[SoFlaBro]

113. Anybody that fucking voted for that Orange Bastard can fucking kick rocks regardless of demographic.

[Keepthesoulalive]

115. Your trying to get us both kicked off

There are certain rails you don’t touch.

[SoFlaBro]

117. Kicked off of what? Voting for that fucking turd is antithetical to electing Democrats.

[Keepthesoulalive]

255. I tread carefully

If you offend certain groups you will be suspended and many people have felt the lash.

[DonCoquixote]

89. thank you

you state my point better than I, or the lady in the video did.

We cannot act like ostriches.

[TheKentuckian]

227. Rest assured that I won't beg for a solitary vote

Preposterous, three times is an enemy action.

The excuses ran long dry 1/6/21.

It is all out here.

People will do what they do and most likely unless they can be hoodwinked out of it, stupid low life motherfuckers are going to do stupid low life shit.

[Keepthesoulalive]

38. You poked the hornets nest .

It is okay to ask why black men, Muslims, Hispanics and any other group votes against its interests. But we must say not all white women because they see it as personal meaning I am not them. So in the future please leave white women out and it will all be good.

[hlthe2b]

40. Again ALL women are under direct attack ALL. Your intent to divide won't work. THe women DO stand together

regardless of race and ethnicity and WILL. Your attempt to divide on this is atrocious and has NO place on DU.

[Keepthesoulalive]

55. I am not attempting to divide

Perhaps you are seeing something that is not there. If we can’t discuss why people vote against their interests, we cannot solve the problems we face.
I feel in your anger you are trying to shut down something you don’t agree with.
Let’s figure out why rather than you can’t discuss this because I feel uncomfortable.

[hlthe2b]

57. Read my first post on the top of the thread if you reallly care to understand.

Or not.

[Keepthesoulalive]

66. I do understand

The big picture is that the majority of white women, not you voted for a rapist, a thief, an adulterer, a misogynist and any other commandment he could break.
I want to know how we can reach them because if they joined us we would have control of our bodies, get childcare, maternity care, and no one should be grabbing our you know what’s. If discussing this is off the table . We need to figure this out and if we silence voices , we will keep going in this circle of hell.

[hlthe2b]

71. The OP posted an attack. It was not intended as a constructiive discussion of "how do we reach the group that

did vote for Trump" as you are desirous of seeing on DU. To that point, I'd suggest you cautiously and with sensitivity post a thread of your own, but more inclusive of all of the individual groups we need to reach--pointing each out for a separate discussion. But, again, if it stinks of misogyny and blaming ALL the very people most hurt by this debacle, it will not go over well--nor should it.

[Keepthesoulalive]

77. Why should I ? these other groups who voted

For chump have already been crucified and vilified. I am trying to find what we can do to reach these people and you keep trying to shut me down . If more women had joined us maybe we wouldn’t be in trouble. I don’t need to start another discussion. You have yet to give me an idea about reaching these folks.

[hlthe2b]

78. Apparently women on DU are not even allowed to defend ourselves.

Your attempts to wave us all away and dismiss us is noted as the overt misogyny espoused. I tried to meet you halfway but apparently, as in most things, only men can hold a valid opinion--even on DU. Don't bother to engage again. I'm done with you.

[happy feet]

138. I don't see how you were personally attacked?

[hlthe2b]

139. The women of DU have been. You need to read the entire thread.

If you think it is fine to treat women of DU as they have on this thread, gawd help us. It is not just MAGA.

[happy feet]

142. I differ

[hlthe2b]

147. 'Always those who will defend..

[Mossfern]

121. However.....

The woman in the video demanded that white women not comment on her video. She didn't demand that white women who voted for Trump not comment - but ANY white woman.

This is just wrong. This is throwing out the baby with the bath water. This is 'punishing' women who supported/ funded/worked for Harris merely because they are white.

This is a very important issue to acknowledge.
This is racism. Not what we need right now.

[Keepthesoulalive]

127. I have seen the video on YouTube and I gave it the consideration it deserved

She’s angry and lashing out, her problem not mine. I want someone to tell me what can we do to get the majority of white women to vote for democrats.

[electric_blue68]

174. Well... Right now she's feeling immense pain, probably fearing what may come down the pike...in time she might change...

her mind. Pain can cause people to blanketly lash out.

The fact that white women still voted ?52% for drumphf [GAHHH!!!!!] is a Betrayal!

[Mossfern]

183. The question is

why was this posted on DU where the white women supported Harris.

Did the OP assume that we don't understand the pain, not only hers, not only black women, but all women.
This is not the place to post such a video especially since the person in the video basically told us to shut up, that she doesn't want to hear from us.

[electric_blue68]

187. Imho, of course All Women, AND Black Women have another nasty to deadly layers of experiences thenselves, relatives...

friends, and community to have dealt/deal with.

[Mossfern]

188. Just a minor question...

why do you say "All women AND Black women?
One would assume that Black women are covered in "All women" Why single them out?

[electric_blue68]

197. Bc I said "And Black Women have another layer of" terrible experiences to deal with.

Mysoginy for those Black Women who feel it, and racism added!

[LizBeth]

209. But I guess that is where my argument lays. I agree there is a greater with black women.

Laso you know there is even greater with Latino women. But the greatest deprivation is with Native American women;. You know that right? So while we do not live the same element as black women, they dont with Latino women and none of us has it as harsh as Native American. Is this how we really want to have this conversation? I think we can be educated and listen, and always listen because there is always more to see and understand, but it is a woman issue.

That is what this election was for me. The barrier was woman. We had a black win, twice.... a man. We have not had a woman break the barrier. The loss as great for all women, not only blacks. Harris was as much ours and our dreams and hopes as much with her as any other woman. It was all woman still not able to break the ceiling.

[electric_blue68]

239. Native American women probably have it even worse in certain ways

[LizBeth]

264. Statistically Native American has it worse in ALL ways... lowest on the rung.

whites/asains, blacks, latinos then native american. I mean I have been educated on hierarchy so all misogyny deferred to native american because they have it the worse? Or do we recognize understand listen and work to resolve.

[electric_blue68]

237. Agreed. And it is uncomfortable pretty much all around.

[electric_blue68]

238. Terribly so.

[TheKentuckian]

228. If they take us all back to 1800, whose shoes do you want to be in?

[hlthe2b]

242. White MEN. Does anyone think otherwise?

And yet, they are the ones on this thread battering down the women posting, mansplaining, telling us we are the ones who are not being understanding of this black woman's pain. The latter is so incredibly patronizing, condescending, misogynistic, and WRONG (in terms of DU women's sympathy first and foremost toward women of color who likewise fought for Harris) that it is just plain sickening. Yet they continue to lecture us when we are all together, as women, with the most at-risk and with the most to lose from this sickening administration. Do not even listen to themselves. No, certainly, not all, or even most DU males are so lacking in self-awareness or even, for the few, fully misogynistic. But, boy is it coming out NOW for the few.

So, no. I am not putting up with the misogynistic attempt to divide on DU--especially the women on racial lines. It is WRONG. And GD it, they need to damn-well STOP.

[DooverBeliever]

41. Divide and Conquer continues

This is the second post I've seen telling white women to stop. These posts are just continuing to dividing us. We got very very strong while we were united around Kamala. Now, "they" (whoever they are) are trying to break this united front apart.

If white women need something to show unity-- let them wear bracelets, jeez. Let's regroup and focus on next steps and not buy into this tactic.

We got this... keep our focus on our goals - we must not chase every stick that is thrown at us.

[Ndp5]

62. Agree about divide and conquer

… but not the bracelets thing, which is ridiculous. Special markers for identity groups? I’ll wear a blue bracelet around as soon as male (pick a race) Trump voters have to wear a red clown nose everywhere they go.

[Groundhawg]

42. Please don't tell women what to do.

[stillcool]

45. Please don't leave out the latino males...

white men, and some black men. When you spout bull, make it a full load.

[Groundhawg]

68. The video didn't tell any men what to do, only women.

[stillcool]

156. I took offense to only blaming white women

if you're going to regurgitate the official story you should include everyone that's being blamed.

[Groundhawg]

193. Color doesn't matter when I say we have no right to tell women what to do.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

47. wow yall if it don't apply then let it fly lol

[KT2000]

50. Her glasses look stupid

That is about the level of her comprehension in this video.

[Duncan Grant]

54. Ad hominem? Really?

I’m calling foul. If I were you, I’d delete that post and never mention it again.

[FBaggins]

64. I'm confused. Did you not watch the video or do you not know what the term means?

I can’t think of a third possibility- because that was one big ad-hominem attacking membership in a group.

The glasses do look stupid… but each to her own where fashion (or lack thereof) is concerned.

But single white women were by far the largest block of Democratic voters. Attacking them does seem pretty stupid when so many other demographics have been shifting away from us.

[Duncan Grant]

72. Seems like an attack on a personal attribute, not her argument, imho.

My experience of the video is of a constituent asking me to hear them. Clearly, this woman is in pain/anger/fear, too. Let’s outline her argument (much more calmly) and refute/affirm honestly (without trivializing her looks).

[FBaggins]

75. That describes both the post you replied to and the OP

She made no argument to outline. And she didn’t ask you to hear her. She said she was done listening to you (assuming you’re one of the groups she painted with her broad brush). That she had tried too long to educate you and now she’s “done” (or better yet - you can “kick rocks” if you’re part of some groups)

[Duncan Grant]

82. "Entering black spaces to center yourself..."

You may have heard that statement, but I’m not sure it’s been understood. It is part of her argument.

Respectfully, it looks like our conversation is going nowhere. Let’s try again some other time.

[LisaL]

98. The space being her youtube channel?

She doesn't want people to be posting comments in there? I hardly think that is entering a space.

[electric_blue68]

246. Uh... i don't think so? Black women have been the most consistent Democratic voting block, with a large (but) minority

Last edited Tue Nov 12, 2024, 08:42 AM - Edit history (1)

of us white women.

[FBaggins]

252. "Largest" and "most consistent" are different measures

You could consistently get 100% of the left-handed Irish trans female amputee vote… but it wouldn’t be stupid to offend them because there just aren’t that many of them. It was stupid to offend white working-class men because there are so many of them and they used to be reliably democratic. Single white women are now the largest block of support we have.

There has to be a way to criticize actual Trump voters without pointing fingers at tens of millions of Harris voters.

[IzzaNuDay]

146. Going for a personal attack on her glasses instead of addressing the issues?

Just love it!

[KT2000]

160. OK. the issue

is that this video is vapid in its content. My comment about the glasses is also vapid. She condescends to all white women because she has tried to educate us but we don't apparently "get it." She is through with all white women. I don't even know who she is but the video is offensive to a lot of people because it was a direct attack on a select groups of people. I know she is hurting about the election but we still must maintain our critical thinking.

If I as a white woman posted such nonsense about all black women, it would be taken down. Same goes if you replace any "category" of people, whether racial or religious group.

[Polybius]

167. She's copying Nina Turner

She acts just like her too.

[electric_blue68]

241. Really? Picking on her glasses, too?.

[KT2000]

267. A few people got

what I was saying - but not everyone.

[brush]

58. Not helpful. Divisive.

[LizBeth]

60. It is all women and girls being attacked and dying. Insulted and dismissed.

Even the ones supporting merely for a longer leash. In their stupidity along with every blue color and working class person who voted for Trump, or the Latino male that could not for for a woman, not simply a black woman, ... or the black man that could not vote for a woman.

The pain after the election, i saw many black women come forward and told us to all to allow them THEIR grief, as if it is not the grief of every woman that has lived their lives and even ruined their lives for those of all sisters... across the board. A woman, still has not been voted in as president.

[electric_blue68]

243. It IS the grief of every non-Magat woman who voted for Kamala. And Black Women have the extra pain of racism which was

shown by 52% of white women

[LizBeth]

266. Black has won the presidency. Woman has not.

She did not lose because she is black. She lost because she is a woman.

[electric_blue68]

294. It might be a combination - for what ever reason

Misogyny is too much alive, and well.

[LizBeth]

298. A black was hired. A woman has never been hired and the choice was pretty clear.

A man can win. A women obviously cannot. That is ALL women.

[Lancero]

61. Might want to give the obligatory "Not all X" disclaimer, given white fragility.

[Duncan Grant]

63. *Fragility* is a defensive response.

May I suggest one listen and welcome her frustration and pain? You don’t have to agree or endorse — but if you’re a white woman (anyone, actually), listen to learn.

And yes, I think I understand how painful it is to hear. I want to be in relationship with others. When I hear, “Respect the boundary” it makes me grieve. I don’t want to be deprived of this relationship.

So, today I’m going hold my tongue. I may not be as smart as I think I am.

[hlthe2b]

73. So, a group already under misogynistic atttack dares to complain and you decide to mansplain to us?

and wave it all away as our "fragility?"

Good gawd. HOW DARE YOU?

[Duncan Grant]

76. Wow. We're going nowhere faster now.

It’s a discussion group. Thank you for your feedback. Your experience is important, but I don’t think you’re the only one who has any legitimacy in what could be an interesting discussion.

Feel free to insult me or make any other outburst as needed. It only adds to your credibility.

[hlthe2b]

79. So, your behavior being called out is something you just can't handle. Not surprised.

[Duncan Grant]

85. I can handle it just fine.

I’m simply unwilling to enable your entitlement and privilege.

[LizBeth]

86. So you are telling women to sit down/shut up/learn about misogyny?

[hlthe2b]

90. A male accusing a woman on DU as being "entitled and privileged" as he accuses us of "fragility" for complaining

about a poster making divisive misogynistic attacks-- that lump the very women under attack into one group to blame... That is just rich, Duncan Grant. I hope many many many here see your post(s). Your mansplaining could be ignored, but calling the women of DU who disagree with being under attack and our very lives being devalued "privileged and entitled" CAN NOT.

[Duncan Grant]

93. Fragility. Defensiveness. Trivializing the video.

I’m sure you’re the only voice that can be right about any of this. I’m disappointed that your anger appears to be more important to you than anything else. Happy to discuss this with you again sometime, but right now? Nope.

[hlthe2b]

95. Your voice is apparently the only one you think matters--enough that you mansplain to every woman on this thread

and have the nerve to claim WE-- those who are under attack--our very freedom and in a very real sense, our lives--by the RW of this country as "privileged and entitled." Enough so that you throw out the ad hominem to every woman on this thread and then falsely claim you were called names.

My gawd. What is wrong with YOU?

[happy feet]

140. He didn 't mansplain to me. I agree with him.

[hlthe2b]

144. Well

Candace Owens doesn’t believe there is racism and Phyllis Schafly enabled the RW to prevent the passage of ERA to now—so nothing under the sun surprises me anymore. There are always thise who will defend…

Sad, though

[Mossfern]

103. Wow!

No words.

[Fullduplexxx]

152. It's also divisive

[berkerly6240]

196. I agree with the other poster this is no time to mansplain us!!!

.

[Duncan Grant]

201. I'm speaking in this thread as I do any other, regardless of gender.

You’re seeing what you want to see. There’s no mansplainin’. You don’t even know my gender. You know nothing about me, only what you project or assume via your belief system. Engage critical thinking skills in 3, 2, 1…

[Duncan Grant]

207. **Source: Robin DiAngelo, "White Fragility" (a woman author who's not mansplainin')**

The term “white fragility” was coined by the Seattle-based educator and author Robin DiAngelo.

She defines it as “a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence and leaving the stress-inducing situation.”

It just occurred to me that some here must be unaware of “White Fragility” (2018). If so, it would explain a lot. If not, never mind. I have no interest in arguing about this important book. Especially, if you haven’t read it.

[Marigold]

88. I am a white woman and ashamed

I know I am probably going to get heat for this. I am ashamed that the majority of white women voted for Trump. I think I understand the pain this woman is sharing. African Americans time and time again have been betrayed by white people who claim to be in solidarity. Every time they put themselves out there and think that we have their backs, we let them down. Perhaps that is why you see such apathy sometimes in their voting patterns.

I think her anger is directed specifically to white women this time because we were all supposed to be voting for our rights. Women. Now our rights were being infringed upon too. African Americans have been suffering this for centuries. They thought they had a new ally in white women. They did, but not enough. It will be harder for them to trust us the next time if there is one.

I in no way mean to diminish the work and effort that many white women put in to this election. I did too, and am just as horrified. But I am also horrified that many white women who weren't uneducated MAGAT's voted for this abomination with excuses and justifications. Black women came out in droves expecting our support and we abandoned them.

[DonCoquixote]

96. this

Look, I know many white women did fight for harris, but many did not, and they were not the stereotype. If you get a tumor, you get it checked to make sure it does not become a cancer.

and if you think OI am leaving my fellow brown males out of this, read other stuff I wrote. I am actually at a point where I would rather NOT have many in my political foxhole, and if you think that does not make me cry, you are wrong. People sold their country out all because they have a promise they too can be rich, even though everybody knows that between Trump and Musk, we will be poor. if I seem to express this op, it is to show that damage is being done. Yes, many afams are MAD, and they have every right to be mad, and going "there there it was nto me4" is not helping. AGAIN, I am furious with many of my fellow brown males who should have known better, and when the op slam them, I understand why, and I do not get defensive or guilt trippy, nor do I think this post slams all brown males, the way some in this very op seem to say she is slamming all women.
If you are not willing to figure out how to remove this tumor, then spares us the virtue signaling.
I

[LizBeth]

106. Harris would have been the first woman president representing all women.

Glass ceiling broke for women. White women voting for Trump either because of support of patriarchy or racism is a conversation to be had. Harris represents all women and I think that is what is being pointed out. It mattered to all us women looking for the glass ceiling to be broken and seeing once again, so much of our society is dictated by yes racism and misogyny. We are part of and live that misogyny. Our daughters are dying from it and losing their rights.

[happy feet]

141. Thank-you

Especially for listening through empathy and trying to understand vs reflexively taking it personal and being defensive (the victim)

[GrapesOfWrath]

153. Beautifully said

Agree completely

[OneGrassRoot]

161. With you. n/t

[electric_blue68]

244. This white woman agrees w you. It feels like Extra betrayal!

52% is shamefully horrific!

Or 56%? Not being flippant just very tired now

[GenThePerservering]

91. Well, the regressive right

in already winning - we're squabbling.

[hlthe2b]

94. I can only assume this was the intent of the OP who posted and ran.

No one who cared about decreasing the factional blaming and divisiveness would post this, see the righteous anger it incited, and not delete the thread. But not even a comment to try to explain their motive in posting it? I can only assume the intent was to divide.

[DonCoquixote]

100. no it was not

It was posted so that we would stop acting like ostriches and figure out what happened, and that we could try to understand the anger that is out there, not shame it, but ask why it is there, and WHAT can we DO? Not fixing the problem will divide us more than ever, and I know we do not want to be in this same place come 2028, bemuse THAT will hurt all of us, especially women

[LisaL]

102. As we likely won't be even able to vote in 2028,

WTF does it matter anymore? And if we are going to be able to vote, posting such a divisive OP isn't going to accomplish your supposedly desired outcome.

[hlthe2b]

104. Well that is certainly the result. I thought I knew you.

This is not what I would have expected. The misogynistic divisiveness and total disregard for the pain the women on DU--who are already shouldering far more than our share of the threats to come--are feeling is breathtaking. You owe the women of DU an apology and a deletion of this highly divisive thread

[DonCoquixote]

108. why?

so that we can ignore what happened?

and to any who use this to hate all women, fuck off. That I officially will do to soften the blow, to officially tell those folks fuck off.

but black women have to deal with misogyny and yes, racism. To delete this thread is in effect to tell black women "I know you are mad, but our feeling matter more than yours, here's a blue bracelet. Please remember to vote for us again."

We owe all women, especially black women, a lot more than that.

[hlthe2b]

122. Yes. But as you see if you read down the thread, at least one is accusing the women of DU of being "entitled and

privileged," fragile, and a few other accusations I will let lie. Talk about piling on to the very people who have worked hardest together to avoid this debacle and among those most at threat.

[Duncan Grant]

130. Accusing *you* of acting entitled and privileged. Not women of DU.

You’re not even being honest now, are you?

Fragility. Defensiveness. Trivializing the video. That’s what I said about you, not the women of DU.

Is your subjective experience and anger the only thing that can be true in this discussion? I don’t think so.

[hlthe2b]

135. Accusing ANY woman of being entitled and privileged/fragile for not putting up with the attacks/misogyny?

You are just bullying now. Proud of yourself?

Lest anyone doubt what this poster is all about, please start with post # 63 where he attacked all the women on the thread.

[Duncan Grant]

150. Emotions don't win arguments.

My recommendation for readers of this thread is to view the video with the intention to learn, not react. The video has legitimacy. Also of interest are the longer comments near the end of this thread. They are thoughtful responses worth your consideration.

[hlthe2b]

154. You can take your misogynistic mansplaining to the women of DU and travel to the right wing websites more

open to such nonsense and BROS commentary. It is NOT welcome by the women of DU who do not deserve such bullshit.. And I am not the only one that will call you on it. It is purely contemptible. if that is how you seek to get attention, well shame on you, but it is contemptible.

If you learn how to be respectful I am sure you will be welcome in such discussions here. But right now, I see dozens of women on this thread with similar disdain for such attitudes.

[Duncan Grant]

170. You're not the women of DU and you don't speak for them.

Feel free to call me anything you like.

I think it’s significant that a video by a black woman has provoked a defensive (fragile) response here. An hours long, rage-filled response, vilifying anyone who calmly asks:

”Can we listen to and discuss this video calmly? Can we outline what she’s saying for greater understanding? Is there anything I can learn? Can I trust that my emotions aren’t dominating the discussion? Do other black women feel this way, too? Do I have a responsibility to understand why that is?”

There are other observations about that in this thread, too. So, you’re certainty not correct in assuming you speak for any majority here. The conduct I see in this thread, trivializing a black woman, mocking her appearance, vilifying her POV — disturbs me, greatly. Others may disagree, that’s their prerogative — but they should block me immediately. Anytime I get a whiff of this again, you’ll find me here.

I don’t think I’m off base, advocating for this black woman’s video or for the things she’d like to acknowledge. If that makes me a misogynist, right-wing, manspainer — so be it. I don’t regret going to the mat with you in defense of this woman, her opinion and her video.

[hlthe2b]

172. Yet YOU think you can speak as a man for all women, tell them what to do and think and deride them continually.

That is the very definition of misogyny. NOPE. YOU DO NOT. Your contempt toward the women on this thread will not stand. You've used all the euphemisms, but we've got YOUR NUMBER.

To any new to this thread, this poster has felt compelled to accuse those of us who do not appreciate being blamed for the election of Trump and fighting back against the loss of our rights (and perhaps our very lives) as "emotional" "entitled" "privileged" and proceeded to mansplain to multiple women on this thread as to why they are not able to think for themselves. I haven't seen worse lately on some of the BROS sites and I am NOT going to ignore it here. There are at least two dozen women posting on this thread who won't either and many more who have not yet seen it who undoubtedly will be equally appalled. It is time-consuming to do and I can't blame anyone for not wanting to, but if you doubt it, please read the entire thread and note that the OP has changed (edited subject line) which started the entire divisive controversy.

There are multiple feminist groups here who started when we experienced a period where a vocal minority of men decided they would tell the women of DU "what's what" and belittled us constantly. While this was more than a decade and a half in the past, the longer-term posters from 2001 and later remember the unpleasantness. The original administrator, Skinner did work with us to try to corral this behavior. I can only hope it is not returning and spreading among even Democrats/Progressives with the blessing of those now in power. But, DU must remain a respected and respectful space--for all. I can only hope this poster decides to adopt that approach as well. But, as I am sure he will not, I will ignore his further comments- a feature I rarely use but is well-earned in this case.

[Duncan Grant]

175. I speak for myself.

You’re putting words into other people’s mouths.

Anyone who finds my advocacy for this woman and this video so offensive, should block me immediately. The conduct I see in this thread is divisive, it mocks a black women, trivializes her POV without engaging in any civil discussion of her experience, and is so unpleasant as to attempt to shut down all discussion. As if *she* is victimizing other women.

I could go on. There’s plenty here to think about, rather than lash out about — but this thread is no longer an environment for self-reflection, empathy, the exchange of ideas or anything potentially positive. Again, I’m happy to defend the video — if for no other reason than it’s good to hear another’s experience.

[hlthe2b]

247. It would appear you speak for misogynists everywhere. Even if it is just your kneejerk response...

That is your go-to. And you are NOT even self-aware enough to recognize it. It is shameful on a liberal/progressive site--especially now. Women everywhere have lost their rights and humanity and in some cases, their very lives. But according to YOU, they are not even able to speak without YOUR permission and reframing to YOUR liking. Your comments are dripping with contempt for women and you seemingly can't (won't) even recognize it.

[Duncan Grant]

269. See post #150 and #207.

If you feel the need to respond to me again, please see post #150 and #207. Rinse. Repeat. Thank you.

[hlthe2b]

270. Here is the only one you need. Read, rinse, repeat, read again. Ponder.

The Guardian: Will the American project survive the anger of white men?
The Guardian - (archived: https://archive.ph/87407 ) Will the American project survive the anger of white men?

At key moments throughout US history, white male anger has been privileged over national security, progress or basic welfare

Carol Anderson
Tue 12 Nov 2024 06.00 EST

A friend recently asked: “Do you think the United States will survive the anger of white men?” As blunt as the question is, the core element is not so far-fetched. In fact, the majority of white men (and women) who voted in the presidential election in 2024 have rallied around a man who has called for the “termination of the constitution”, vowed to be a “dictator”, and threatened to deploy the US military against Americans. They support a man who is a convicted felon, an adjudicated rapist, a proven liar, who has been fined nearly half a billion dollars for fraud, who incited an insurrection that injured 140 police officers, and who mismanaged the Covid-19 pandemic causing hundreds of thousands to die needlessly.

The fact that Donald Trump’s candidacy was even viable, given that horrific track record, was because of the support of white men. White men, whose anger was on full display at Madison Square Garden as they spewed racist, misogynistic venom. White men who attacked poll workers and also voters of Kamala Harris. White men who chafed at the thought that their wives and girlfriends would not vote for the man who thought it was “a beautiful thing” that reproductive rights had been destroyed. And, as the New York Times reported, the downwardly mobile, frustrated “white men without a degree, [who] have been surpassed in income by college-educated women”.

And let’s be clear. Trump has laid out an agenda that will provide the “wages of whiteness” to his male supporters but very little else. The racist hate that undergirds Maga can only provide threadbare comfort. The planned enormous tariffs, the rollback on workplace, food and environmental safety regulations, the dismantling of labor protections, the planned deportation of tens of millions of undocumented people and naturalized citizens, the assault on reproductive rights and alignment with dictators – all of this will destroy the economy, explode the deficit and leave the United States severely isolated and weakened.

This is nothing new. White male anger, especially at the nation’s inclusion of African Americans, has repeatedly privileged white supremacy over the viability of the United States. During the war of independence, when the nation was fighting to become the United States, South Carolina’s government fumed at Congress’s request to arm the enslaved and give them their freedom in exchange for fending off a British force that was more than 10 times the size of what those in Charleston could muster. Government officials flat out refused and barked that they weren’t sure that the US “was a nation worth fighting for” and would rather take their chances with the king of England. In short, enslaving those of African descent was infinitely more important than the United States.

/snip

Jeff (Gutenberg Parenthesis) Jarvis
‪@jeffjarvis.bsky.social‬
Will the American project survive the anger of white men?

November 12, 2024 at 6:46 AM


https://bsky.app/profile/jeffjarvis.bsky.social/post/3laqr3sxpjk2a


Hat/tip to DUer Dennis Donnovan--a real treasure on DU and anything BUT a misogynist. Thank you for being you, Dennis.

[Duncan Grant]

271. #150, #207 rinse, repeat...

[hlthe2b]

272. You could learn an immense amount from the example of DUer Dennis Donnovan. You won't. But you should. Rinse, repeat].

[Duncan Grant]

273. #150, #207, thank you.

[hlthe2b]

274. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.... Get some original material, will you?

Pitiful. But now it is just pitiful and

And that is why relying on misogynistic comments does not serve you well. You might learn from those who are not, both men and women.

How do you like the Femisplaining? Back at ya

[Duncan Grant]

275. #150, #207, thank you.

[hlthe2b]

276. Learn from your betters and maybe learn to write for yourself. Rinse, repeat, again and again. Thank YOU.

Can't stand when a woman doesn't let you mansplain, can you?

[Duncan Grant]

277. #150, #207, thank you.

[hlthe2b]

278. Did you hire someone to mansplain for you? Thank them for me too, but no thanks

Do you never tire of such pitful tactics?

[Duncan Grant]

280. #150, #207, thank you.

[hlthe2b]

281. Pitiful. Can't even write your own messages now. Lost the art of "mansplaining, eh?"

No. Your desire for attention is ridiculous now. Enjoy your life. But if I catch you repeating your indefensible behavior toward other DU women again, I will not hesitate to defend them as well.

[Duncan Grant]

282. #150, #207, thank you.

[electric_blue68]

297. Very good article. Knew a fair amount of the history, and two things were new to me.

[electric_blue68]

250. I tend to agree w you. This is how some Black Women are feeling right now, maybe for a long time.

"I know you are mad, but our feeling matter more than yours, here's a blue bracelet. Please remember to vote for us again."

Pithy, but yeah, rather true.

I'd probably add '(And, oh), Please remember to vote for us again.'
Since Black Women have been the biggest Democratic voters demographic. Then us big but still minority of white women.

[DonCoquixote]

116. I change the name

bit we need to change the reality that brought it into being.

[hlthe2b]

119. I credit you that, thank you, but you need to indicate in the OP what the original name was to explain the reactions...

No one here deserves the attacks that will come from those who are unaware of the original issue. Thank you.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

202. I'm very confused, what did it say??

[Keepthesoulalive]

110. You are not going to win this battle

They cannot hear you nor understand.

[2 Meow Momma]

120. Who is "they" in your statement? nt

[hlthe2b]

124. Right.. Women "can't understand." Good gawd is there any limit to your misogyny?

[Texasgal]

162. Soooo... Ummm

You thought posting an extremely divisive thread about what WOMEN did wrong with this election was the way to go?

REALLY?

[Meowmee]

107. I have put the op

And several others on ignore. I suggest you do the same- there’s no point wasting time and energy on this. Ty to those who let me know with your responses to ignore you 😀

[Quiet Em]

97. I won't be wearing a blue bracelet

I'm just going to assume every man I don't know is unsafe until proven otherwise. Sure, there are lots of ahole white women, but they don't post the same danger to me.

[Nimble_Idea]

99. THE FLORIDA MODEL NATION-WIDE

coming to all 50 states. They really have no idea what about to drop on em. no fcuking(sp) clue.

[appmanga]

118. This is just one person expressing how she feels...

...but I understand because, in part, I share her disappointment and anger.

While polls say a majority of white women supported Trump, that doesn't mean (and I think it's unlikely) those white women are in this forum. And while, like her, I'm also done, I never had that much confidence this country would elect a woman, much less a black one. What galls me is the continued dismissal in so many quarters this simply couldn't be about misogyny, racism, and bigotry. There are people who continue to lament how this result simply doesn't make sense considering who her opponent was and how one of the most effective presidents in my lifetime had the incredible and consequential deeds of his administration totally ignored. At first, it was about his age, although Trump is just a couple years younger and no more lucid or coherent than Biden. He's certainly not as ethical. But once Biden dropped out, "inflation" and "the economy" became the proxies, and that has worked for the talking heads and punditry mostly because it's more palatable then the truth it seems like only black people don't mind publicly speaking.

I'm just as tired of hearing how Democrats don't know how to talk to the working class when Joe Biden walked a picket time with them. I'm tired of hearing about "elites", which is another euphemism for having critical thinking skills. And I'm tired of hearing that shit from Democrats. If being a Democrat meant being the same kind of person who could be swayed by someone's sexuality or the color of their skin, that I would have to embrace hatred and fear to win elections, I would have never joined this party.

It was a mistake to not answer the ads about transgender prisoners. Harris was going to have a tough climb, but those ads killed her chances because they hit hard and hit home with a lot of people, especially men, but also a lot of women, particularly single mothers who constantly question themselves as to how good a parent can they be when they can't truly be the man AND woman of the house. Not only did those ads flip votes, they got people to stay home.

So I understand what this woman is saying. I don't agree with her blanket indictment, but I know how she feels. I know how Eddie Glaude feels. And I say if you continue to misdiagnose the patient, which is this party, you won't cure him, and he will eventually die from the wrong prescription.

So like her, I'm out. Not because of frustration or anger at other Americans; I'm out because the damage that's going to be done will not be fixed in my lifetime, and I can't give anymore time trying to enlighten or protect those who just don't get it. We know the dangers to come, and people didn't buy what we were selling. They wanted "fuck around and find out" and now they have it. I wish them luck. I wish us all luck.

[LizBeth]

123. This election was not about a first black woman loss. A black man already won, twice.

He was a man. The race along with 2016 was the first woman could not win. That is the loss. That is what is grieved by all of us collectively.

[IzzaNuDay]

125. Based on many of the comments,

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2024, 07:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I can tell folks are up in their feelings about listening to this video. “But it’s not me”. This woman was in pain, and sharing her pain.

Have you even thought of all the cr@p black women have endured, been stereotyped, even by this dotard? For freaking centuries! They deal with stereotyping from the time they are conceived to the time they die. Think about it.

Black women went all out for Kamala because they didn’t have short memories. Like the pandemic shutdown, separating families, etc. And more recently the Dobbs decision— because it’s well documented that Black women typically have the worst outcomes for maternal care. They voted en masse because they saw the dotard as an existential threat to their lives

This all reminds me of a story from a consultant— that Black archetype tends to embrace “truth before peace”— conflict needs to be addressed, while the Anglo archetype embraces “peace before truth” - minimize conflict.

If this video makes you mad, then I dare you to forward this to any white woman or Arab American you know who voted for the dotard. Don’t be shooting the messenger. And I don’t care if you block me because you’ll be proving the point the consultant said.

And a postscript from same
https://youtube.com/shorts/FKki5Z75uKk?si=QtMvijHIiRScyGkr

[DonCoquixote]

215. if not for the hate I got on this thread

I would post that postscript as it's own op

[Zeitghost]

129. What divisive drivel.

Please remove it.

[IzzaNuDay]

148. Really? Read my comment #125

You're proving the point from the consultant.

[Zeitghost]

149. Yes really.

n/t

[LizBeth]

155. Your post was a two fold insult. Again being told to sit down stfu and learn about misogyny....

While suggesting any one of us would be cowardly harshly addressing any Trump voter, let alone women. I mean there is tons of insult in that one.... That is no challenge like you think it might be. That tells me you really do not understand much of any of this besides telling women to sit down, shut up.

[IzzaNuDay]

173. You've already proven the consultant's point (peace before truth)

It was not a question of STFU, it was listen to her pain, and learn from it.

As I said before in #125, the consultant said Blacks tend to embrace "truth before peace", vs the "peace before truth" acceptable in some white communities.

Regarding branding "all white women" -- Black women have been portrayed with stereotypes from all over the political spectrum: as gangsters (Clinton), welfare queens(Reagan), angry, criminals, (too many to mention) -- and we all know when one non-White person commits a heinous crime, it seems the media has no compunction showing the accused's face their entire population is branded with that stereotype.

So LizBeth, I guess it would have been just better if Black women just STFU and go away, eh?