There are legitimate questions being asked about the validity of the voting outcomes....

[Think. Again.]

...especially considering the involvement of elon musk's starlink company in transferring the final count data.

But I thought post-election audits are done by the vast majority of states, or are any audits being done?

Here's some general info on post-election audits, but doe anyone know if these audits are actually being done, especially in swing states?

https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/post-election-audits

[WarGamer]

1. extreme tin foil hat territory right there...

https://www.newsweek.com/starlink-musk-trump-election-conspiracy-theory-spreads-online-1983444

[JoseBalow]

2. Just asking questions!

[WarGamer]

4. State 2 of grieving... subscribing to crazy ass conspiracy theories?

[Think. Again.]

7. There are valid reasons why post-election audits are mandatory in most states....

...and those reasons don't involve tin foil.

[lostnfound]

132. Documented example of flipping votes from voter's intention. 20 counties, PA

BMDs - ballot marking devices — here’s a letter that explains what happened in November 2023.
Ballots were printed in such a way that the voter selected candidate A, the bar code that was printed corresponded to the opposite candidate.

https://stategovernment.pasenategop.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/141/2024/03/Skoglund_PA_Sen_Govt_Cmte_Hearing_Testimony.pdf

Northhampton County is one of 20 counties that requires all in-person voters to use BMDs. On Election Day, their BMD’s printed ballots with the opposite of what some voters selected on the touchscreen….Some polling places did not notice and kept voting. Some told voters to come back later.
To get the ballot text to match the screen, some voters were advised to select the opposite of their vote choices on the touchscreen. That is creative and understandable, but tragic. The bar code and the ballot text did not match, and the barcode was counted. The ballot text that voters could see was irrelevant. Any voters who tried to work around the problem had their votes counted against their preferences.

As an aside, hand counting ballots is not permitted, at least not by township election judges. I do not know whether the issue is security or its opposite, but publicly visible hand counting is tried and true method. https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/judge-says-pennsylvania-township-cannot-conduct-hand-count-of-ballots/

[reACTIONary]

133. They don't involve starlink either.

[notroot]

10. No, I consider CTs to be stage 3 "bargaining". I prefer the purity of stage 2 anger.

It brings a certain clarity (like most Americans really are sexist, racist garbage people... not enough has changed since our founding), without asking for cognitive-dissonance-inducing rationalizations to explain away the FUCKING RAGE

[live love laugh]

28. Insults to discourage discourse are worse.

[Kaleva]

36. We should always push back against misinformation

[live love laugh]

98. "We" who? And what misinformation?

Last edited Tue Nov 12, 2024, 12:23 AM - Edit history (1)

[reACTIONary]

140. Unsubstantiated rumors based on...

... fear, uncertainty and doubt.

[live love laugh]

164. Is it a rumor that Starlink was only connected to battleground states?

[reACTIONary]

173. You tell me...

... where did you hear it? Facebook? Twitter? A podcast?

[Kaleva]

157. What actual evidence has been provided that the election was stolen?

None. Just conjecture and wishful thinking.

A distraction from discussing the real reasons why Harris lost and how to correct them.

"Misinformation occurs when someone inadvertently spreads false information. Unlike disinformation, people who share misinformation do not intend to lie or deceive. Misinformation is simply false or inaccurate information — nothing more, nothing less."

https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/misinformation-versus-disinformation-explained

[live love laugh]

162. You didn't answer my question yet you want to quash questions.

If you don’t like the topic then ignore it but “we” who wish to WILL ask to our satisfaction.

[Kaleva]

166. I'm asking "Where is the evidence that the election was stolen?".

[live love laugh]

167. You don't answer a question with a question.

[Kaleva]

169. So you don't have any actual evidence to support your claim?

With no evidence, then it's just misinformation.

That answers your question to me

[live love laugh]

171. What "claim"?

[live love laugh]

165. You don't get to chart the course of discussion about the election.

[Kaleva]

168. It is your right to believe falsehoods

It is my right to challenge people who believe such.

[live love laugh]

172. You have zero proof of falsehoods.

[Kaleva]

176. The fact that there is no proof of actual election fraud is a biggie

[live love laugh]

184. Questions are being asked and you don't want that. What's wrong with

asking questions?

Even the Harris campaign is asking questions. AND she has a FB page so it IS on FACEBOOK. 😂😂

[XorXor]

202. That's a good point that you made. What is wrong with asking questions?

A good question to ask is if there is any evidence that supports the theory of manipulation.

So far the stuff I've seen from people is either completely unhinged and divorced from reality claims that is on par with My Pillow Guy's brand of cray-cray, vague claims that require a lot of assumptions and leaps, or people who ask questions and then ignore or actively reject any answers that don't fit what they already want to believe.

[tritsofme]

58. Well we certainly shouldn't encourage Trump-style baseless conspiracy theories.

That should definitely be discouraged.

[reACTIONary]

143. Calling BS is...

... an important aspect of discourse.

[NJCher]

121. It's "stages," not "states"

And the second one is anger.

Where is the anger?

[WarGamer]

123. I know... g and t nearby on keyboard :)

[Jarqui]

6. This gave me some pause on that

https://abc30.com/post/tulare-county-sees-larger-voter-turnout-during-2024-presidential-election/15519472/

"I just wanna say thank you to all our poll workers, inspectors for making yesterday an amazing day. We didn't have long lines after 8pm, everyone got processed and through those lines quickly. And that is due to all their hard work and dedication that they do out at the poll sites," said Tulare County Registrar of Voters Michelle Baldwin.

Baldwin says access to connectivity was improved this year thanks to Starlink satellite internet.

Elon Musk's Starlink is involved with connectivity to poll sites?

It seems stupid not to take a look. Musk was all in for Trump & his disinformation on twitter

[RandomNumbers]

62. As an IT person (but NOT networking expert)

it makes no sense to me that "Starlink satellite internet" was needed, or that in ANY way it should have been used, given the potential conflict of interest factor.

NOTE: at home I use a VPN. I have been operating on the assumption that my internet service provider cannot read my traffic or influence it in any way, other than throttling or accelerating throughput.

I don't know enough about this "Starlink satellite internet" service, or about networking technical stuff in general, but it strikes me that a) no municipality/county/state should EVER sign up for a service where there would be any concern like you are suggesting; and b) if there is a technical basis that such a concern actually COULD arise, then for DAMNED sure the service should not be purchased from someone with a clear conflict of interest (i.e. ELOON).

Unfortunately I don't trust the competence of the average government IT department or leadership to handle a), so I'm left to wonder if there is a way b) could be a thing.

(Oh and Tulsa is probably the closest to a blue spot in Oklahoma that there is, for what that's worth.)

[Jarqui]

96. Tulare County is in CA

I'm an IT person as well but not what I would describe as a networking expert though I've been messing with them for over 30 years. I feel the same way:

"it makes no sense to me that "Starlink satellite internet" was needed, or that in ANY way it should have been used, given the potential conflict of interest factor."

When it needs to be very secure, we don't put the server on a network.

[Jarqui]

12. This anecdote gave me a little pause too

Joe Rogan Says Elon Musk Created an App and He Knew Four Hours Before It Was Announced that Donald Trump Won the Election
https://grabien.com/story.php?id=499986

[liberalla]

19. Well isn't that interesting?

Things that make you go Hmm....

[littlemissmartypants]

105. Debunked.

This is what he's referring to ...
Polymarket. That claim has been debunked already.

https://polymarket.com/trump

[Jarqui]

131. Where did Rogan bring up Polymarket?

Where is the debunking?

[littlemissmartypants]

103. Rogan is an idiot.

This is what he's referring to ...
Polymarket. That claim has been debunked already.

https://polymarket.com/trump

[reACTIONary]

144. Well if Joe Rogan says it...

... then it MUST be true! I mean, he's some guy on the internet.

Oh, and since the M$M isn't reporting it, it must be doubly true!!!

[LAS14]

3. I'll wait until the DNC and the Harris/Walz campaign start asking questions. nt

[NJCher]

114. I'm betting they're asking questions

But due to the insane track record of the republicans in the area of questioning results, you will not know anything until Harris/Walz has something substantial. There will be no filing 60-odd lawsuits, no claims of stolen elections without evidence, etc. No screaming to the media that the election was stolen. Nope; if there is anything there it will be handled discretely and professionally.

I'm speaking as a person who handled communications for large corporations and who wrote speeches for CEOs of Fortune 100 companies. These kinds of people know how the press can cause major damage. If there is anything there, the public won't know for quite some time.

And if/when something develops, it will be brought up not by Harris/Walz, but introduced by some third party who holds a high degree of neutrality. It will come out in a way that that seems non-partisan.

Harris is smart. She is also not afraid to take on big interests; as you all know, she took on the mortgage servicers in CA and got enormous settlements for the people who had been cheated. She's taken on JP Morgan Chase, Quest, Comcast, and more. I don't have to convince anyone here that Harris is smart.

Releasing this news would fall into the category of "crisis communication." There are a few people who specialize in this and you can be sure they'll be consulted.

What we do see a lot of, however, is fellow posters who criticize anyone for questioning. "Don't go down that path!" ""Wishful thinking!" Most likely that is because they fear Democrats repeating the idiotic way trump behaved. That is not--repeat NOT-- how this will be handled. People the calibre of Kamala Harris know how to handle this.

[yellow dahlia]

135. I am SO hoping...

that the campaign and/or others are looking into this. I like your premise.

It is unfortunate that the unhinged claims and nonsensical audits from the grifter created an atmosphere that makes the Dems overly cautious about requesting recounts or investigations.

[GreenWave]

5. For weeks Harris visited the battleground states virtually non-stop.

She also had the Obamas, Clintons. Biden come in to help out,
IQ 47 had no such help.
This means Harris was aware she was trailing in those states.

[pnwmom]

13. Michael Moore knew Hillary was trailing but he thought Harris was not. nt

[GreenWave]

14. Well why did Harris keep bringing the big guns to those 7 states?

It follows that they were necessary to turn the tide.

[pnwmom]

17. Because those 7 states determine the election regardless of the popular vote.

[live love laugh]

29. Question: why didn't Trump keep bringing big guns to those states or doing much at all??

[Ace Rothstein]

31. Trump wants all the attention for himself.

[live love laugh]

34. That doesn't answer the question.

[TheKentuckian]

51. Hulk Hogan and Kid Rock were around.

They have no "big guns" other than Chump.

Dude's own cabinet and VP wouldn't support him.

[whathehell]

53. Because he knew he didn't need to?

[yellow dahlia]

137. Because he knew it was in the bag for him. n/t

[jimfields33]

201. I'm sure the democratic governor and democratic AG

would be rather insulted if they thought their election was fraud. They are responsible for the elections and did a fine job. It was the voters who gave the win to trump not the great job of handling elections in most of the swing state Governors.

[live love laugh]

32. Why did he hold a hate rally at MSG instead of focusing on swing states?

[NJCher]

129. No, because in an important election

You pull out all the stops.

I respect Harris for what she did. By enlisting the presence of these important Democrats, she showed she was committed to the goal of winning the presidency for the Democratic party.

You, however, seem to be implying she knew she was going to lose. If that's what you're saying, do tell us how she knew that? And don't tell me "internal polling" unless you can provide a source who admitted to the results of the internal polling and when they did so.

[tritsofme]

60. lol, is Moore supposed to be some sort of sage or fortune-teller?

I’m not sure how his guess being right about something once and wrong another time….means anything?

[pnwmom]

64. The pollsters and other prognosticators strongly predicted a Hillary win in 2016 -- except for Michael Moore,

who disappointed many Democrats before the election by saying that he wasn't seeing the kind of support she needed in Michigan. And he turned out to be right.

[tritsofme]

67. Ok...his guess was right once and wrong another time. Happens to me too sometimes.

I just can’t see how one guy’s guess is in any way significant.

[LeftInTX]

136. And Michael Moore knows everything?

He's no more magic than you or I.

[stillcool]

78. this means she was campaigning

Democratic candidates need to do that, because they need way more votes than their Republican counterparts to win.

[NJCher]

128. not necessarily

It could simply mean that she had priorities and those priorities were the swing states. Anyone with good time management skills would do this.

trump, on the other hand, has no time management skills nor does he have executive ability to determine such priorities. He went to MSG when he should have been in the swing states.

There were times when he played golf and didn't even campaign.

[LymphocyteLover]

186. and she did close the gap with her visits

[EndlessWire]

8. Wut???

...especially considering the involvement of elon musk's starlink company in transferring the final count data

What is this about??

[Think. Again.]

9. That's a legitimate question.

Edit to add:

See reply #6

[EndlessWire]

11. I don't know anything

at all about it. I want to know about it. Are you kidding?? Did we send voting results somewhere using STARLINK???

[Think. Again.]

15. According to Tulare County Registrar of Voters Michelle Baldwin....

....yes, they used starlink...

"Baldwin says access to connectivity was improved this year thanks to Starlink satellite internet."

Source: https://abc30.com/post/tulare-county-sees-larger-voter-turnout-during-2024-presidential-election/15519472/

[EndlessWire]

16. OMG! n/t

[Abnredleg]

20. Voting machines and tabulators don't have modems

By default. You do need connectivity for voter processing.

Please take the tinfoil off.

[Think. Again.]

21. That would be good to verify...

...do you have a legitimate link that verifies no voting machines nor tabulators are internet capable?

[Abnredleg]

26. It is a Government Standard

The guidelines are labeled “voluntary” but they reflect best practices that have been adopted by all states.

https://www.eac.gov/voting-equipment/voluntary-voting-system-guidelines

In North Carolina, for instance, it is against the law for voting machines to have external connectivity. This is such an obvious security measure that I’m surprised we are discussing it.

]https://www.ncsbe.gov/voting/voting-equipment

[Think. Again.]

27. Oh, so it is NOT a steadfast, across the board fact. Scary.

[Abnredleg]

37. It is the standard

All states have their standards on line and they all address connectivity - feel free to explore them. You can also look at the sites of the manufacturers while you are at it.

Once again, this is such an obvious security measure that you are going to have to provide some facts rather than waving your hands about and spouting vague arguments.

[Think. Again.]

46. Unless I'm mistaken....

....this very obvious security measure has been a concern since the birth of computerized voting machines, has it not?

[onenote]

52. Does this mean you think Trump, Rudy and Pillow Guy were right to be suspicious of the result in 2020?

What you're expressing concern about are the same things they claimed resulted in a "rigged" result. Dozens of experts testified otherwise and we justifiably ridiculed the Trump/Giuliani/Pillow Guy for their claims.

[Think. Again.]

54. Yes, they are well-known to use projection to ....

...blame others for things they themselves are doing.

[Abnredleg]

66. It is a concern for those who don't understand IT security

I worked in government IT for decades and understand the measures in place.

[Zeitghost]

55. It is in Tulare County CA

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=ELEC&sectionNum=19205

[Think. Again.]

56. There it is! The Tulare County Registrar of Voters Michelle Baldwin....

....has admitted to breakng that law when she said "access to connectivity was improved this year thanks to Starlink satellite internet."

(c) (1) No part of the voting system shall receive or transmit wireless communications or wireless data transfers.

(2) A network connection to any device not directly used and necessary for voting system functions shall not be established. Communication by or with any component of the voting system by wireless or modem transmission at any time is prohibited. A component of the voting system, or any device with network connectivity to the voting system, shall not be connected to the internet, directly or indirectly, at any time

[Zeitghost]

61. It's not the voting system

It's the voter system. They need internet to access state voter information for provisional ballots and same day registration.

Starlink is being used to help ensure everyone can vote, not to transmit voting information.

California has no system to electronically transmit votes from County officials to State officials. Who exactly would Tulare County be sending the votes to illegally if they were doing so?

[lostnfound]

88. Duval county: "Tabulators only connect to internet after the polls are closed"

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/verify/duval-county-ballot-tabulators-only-connect-the-internet-after-polls-are-closed/77-d40816fb-0340-423a-85d4-a6ebb17ca50d

It doesn't transmit anything until the end of the night when we close it out," Holland said. "And also when we start the tabulator, we have to run a zero tape, which means there's no votes on it. And then at the end of the night, we'll print the results and actually post those there at the precinct."
ES&S tells First Coast News in an email that modems, which provide internet connection, are not on tabulators by default and are only installed in tabulators in states that allow them, such as Florida.
This is the case for the new tabulators that will be used in Duval County. Holland says the tabulators are a newer, upgraded version of the tabulators currently used, but work faster.

[reACTIONary]

148. Thanks!

[live love laugh]

30. That you know of.

[Abnredleg]

40. Any facts, or do you only push conspiracy theories?

We lost, and it really shouldn’t be a surprise.

[Think. Again.]

48. Why would you be so vehemently against post-election audits?

[Abnredleg]

65. Audits are part of the certification process

Right now the results are unofficial until that process is complete. The fact that you don’t know this should be reason for you to take the time and effort to understand the process.

[Think. Again.]

74. Audits are not mandatory and I have not seen any indication they are being done.

[Abnredleg]

80. Then it is time to educate yourself

https://www.eac.gov/sites/default/files/bestpractices/Election_Audits_Across_the_United_States.pdf

[Think. Again.]

82. I still see no indication that audits are being done.

General best practice recommendations are not verifiable instances of those practices being excercised.

[Abnredleg]

84. If they weren't being done as required people would be yelling

It’s just routine procedures that get done without fanfare.

[Think. Again.]

95. Audits are not necessarily "required".

[LeftInTX]

130. They were when I poll watched during a recount

[stillcool]

99. every state has different election laws...

different voting equipment, and different rules for conducting audits, and/or recounts. A recount and an audit of a percentage of the vote isn't the same thing.

[reACTIONary]

149. Thanks again!

[live love laugh]

145. You have no facts.

[ElementaryPenguin]

170. Unfortunately - some voting machines DO HAVE MODEMS - and ARE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET!!!!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/online-vulnerable-experts-find-nearly-three-dozen-u-s-voting-n1112436

[EndlessWire]

23. Do you know how this would work?

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/california-2024-election-results-map-shows-county-by-county-live-count/

How would we find out how they did it, if they did? We'd need a forensic software analyst, wouldn't we?

I just cannot fathom Trump winning the popular vote. How can we find out how many states used Starlink? We should demand a hand recount, if it turned out that Elon's Starlink was used. GHC, I can hardly stand all this crap.

Why isn't the United States using its own satellite system? Didn't we find pieces of Starlink in Russia?

The entirety of California used Starlink? Or just Tulare County? (Tulare County is just below Fresno, sort of in the middle of Cali--find it on the map at the link.)

[Think. Again.]

24. I agree that due to musk's company being in the middle...

...that should be enough to require "risk limiting audits" (RLA's) to be performed in any precint where this "connectivity" was used, for national peace of mind if nothing else.

More on post-election audits: https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/post-election-audits

[Zeitghost]

57. Nobody in CA uses Starlink to transmit voting data

It is illegal to do so.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=ELEC&sectionNum=19205


Starlink is used in rural areas to provide internet access to poll workers to access state voter data so that provisional ballots and onsite registration can be done.

In other words, Stalink is being used to ensure anyone who is eligible can vote. Not as a nefarious plot to get Trump extra votes.

[Quakerfriend]

18. Yes, I heard it was used in all the battleground

states- sorry, no link.

[LeftInTX]

139. No! Starlink is internet. If you have a Starlink ISP, you get

your results via Starlink.

Here we have USB drives that are driven to elections office.
The results from each USB drive are then added up. They are then released to the unofficial media report. The resuls you see on election night are always unofficial BTW
Media results are sent via internet to various media sites.

[reACTIONary]

147. Starlink is an internet service provider, like...

... Comcast or Verizon. It's like having a cable or fiber optic connection to the internet. If some county is out in the wilderness and needs broadband service, they might use Starlink because Verizon and Comcast are not available. Folks in rural areas may have limited connectivity, and this is an option.

One county out in the boondocks using a satellite ISP isn't a big deal. It isn't even a little deal. It isn't anything at all.

BTW, Voting machines are not connected to the internet.

[SoFlaBro]

22. If you encrypt the data end to end with PGP signatures, there is little way to tamper with the data packets.

[Think. Again.]

25. But it is still possible, isn't it? And wouldn't it be worth doing audits anyway?

[Think. Again.]

43. I agree.

[SoFlaBro]

63. If you throw enough money and resources at any encryption algorithm, it can eventually be fucking defeated.

Much like if you start walking, at some point you will reach Brazil.

[Zeitghost]

68. There is no encrypted signal to intercept and change

The systems are not connected to a network or the internet. They are air gapped. It's like trying to hack my microwave.

[Think. Again.]

72. The Tulare County Registrar of Voters Michelle Baldwin....

...has stated " access to connectivity was improved this year thanks to Starlink satellite internet."

[Zeitghost]

76. Connectivity to the voter registration system

There is no vote calculating/reporting system to transmit to. It doesn't exist.

You want people to be able to cast provisional ballots and register at polling sites right? You need internet for that to happen and many rural areas of Tulare county are in mountainous areas without internet or cell reception.

[Think. Again.]

77. Well, I hope post-election audits are done....

...as advised by The National Conference of State Legislatures...

https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/post-election-audits

[Zeitghost]

79. They are

This is California. We have a robust voting system.

[LeftInTX]

134. That's for epollbooks. Checkin data.

It maintains lists of registered voters, wait times, indicates who has voted etc.
It is not connected to ballots.

[reACTIONary]

150. More like if you start walking, at some point....

.... you reach alpha centauri.

[tritsofme]

69. No, because she is not a fan of baseless conspiracy theories.

Don’t you think if she thought something was there, aside from some folks on the internet with over-active imaginations, that she might want to do something about it…and…you know, become president?

Come on people, this isn’t so difficult.

[tritsofme]

90. Sometimes the truth hurts. This nonsense sounds exactly like the Trumpers four years ago.

Zero evidence in both cases.

The difference is that Democratic leaders do not indulge their fringes by validating baseless conspiracy theories and then proceed to exploit them for money.

[tritsofme]

102. So again, why do you suppose Kamala Harris accepts the results?

It can only mean a few things.

She and her entire campaign are too stupid to realize it was “stolen”

Or she was somehow complicit in “stealing” the election.

Or she understands she lost, and has no interest in spreading Trump-style baseless conspiracy theories.

I’m betting on the latter. How about you?

[tritsofme]

111. That's because it is a conspiracy theory. I'm still curious why you believe Kamala is not questioning the results?

[tritsofme]

199. If folks want to live in fantasy-land, that is certainly their prerogative.

[LeftInTX]

141. Donate to Jill Stein, so she can scam for recounts

and pocket the money!

Why isn't Mark Elias and Kamala involved!

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

106. Actually, She and her campaign are raising monies for to do recounts. I believe that she announced it almost an hour &

a half ago ...& she must have expected that pumpkin head was going to cheat because TURNS OUT that her fundraising commitee has allocated some of the funds toward a "RECOUNT ACCOUNT"...LO & BEHOLD...

https://www.baltimoresun.com/2024/11/11/kamala-harris-fundraising-committee-allocated-donations-to-recount-account-fine-print

https://kmph.com/news/nation-world/harris-fundraising-committee-allocated-donations-to-recount-account-fine-print-shows-harris-victory-fund-campaign-in-debt-actblue-kamala-trump-presidential-election

[tritsofme]

108. Is this not standard practice for any campaign?

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

120. Apparently, NO it's NOT something EVERY campaign does...In fact, it appears that this happened 4 times & it's always

has happened when the REPUBLICANS have cheated:
1 Gore V Bush
2 trump V HIllary Clinton
3 trump v Kamala Harris

[tritsofme]

70. Is Kamala Harris insane for "believing" the results? Or just stupid? Perhaps complicit in the steal?

I really don’t understand how some folks work out this nonsense in their heads.

[Cetacea]

178. Is Garland too slow?

[tritsofme]

200. Is he part of this goofy conspiracy theory now too?

lol

[Zeitghost]

71. Audits of voting machine systems

Are a regular part of the voting process carried out by State and local officials.

That not a single one has come forward, even in Blue States like CA, MA, NY, NJ, MD and IL where Trump improved by 8%-11% and indicated they have some irregularities is our clue that no widespread plot to install Trump is afoot.

[Think. Again.]

122. Only one out of the seven swing states has audits that are "binding" on the outcome...

https://verifiedvoting.org/publication/recounts-audits-2024-verified-voting/

[Zeitghost]

125. How many have reported issues that have come up during the non binding audits?

??

[2naSalit]

39. For reference...

Here's a compilation of the voter suppression / vote manipulation evidence so far...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219693337

[ananda]

42. OK, here's the thing.

Recounts would solve the whole thing.

[Think. Again.]

44. Yes, why not simply do audits?

[reACTIONary]

153. What, exactly, is the "thing" that needs to be solved?

[ForgedCrank]

45. There are flaws

in the election system. But in my opinion, not what is being suggested.
The real issue is that it is somewhat sloppy in record keeping and solid identification requirements. When it is all said and done, there should be verifiable evidence for each and every vote that can be audited and traced back to the voter if need be. It's not that I think there is vote cheating going on, it's just that these measures would once and for all make all of these conspiracy theorists shut up and accept the results. There should be opening left that allows elections to be contested when it is done.
I know that it seems like giving them what they want, but it's the only way to make this bullcrap stop once and for all.

[ForgedCrank]

193. And?

[ForgedCrank]

195. Well, you

apparently had something important to say but appear unwilling to say it.
I stand by it. When the Trumpers were screaming about stolen elections, I called them what they are. This is no different. If you disagree that we need a system with security good enough to discount and eliminate this silliness, then say it.

[ForgedCrank]

198. Ok, then

I'm glad we agree.
you as well

[Meowmee]

47. I don't think they're done unless there is a reason

But I could be wrong. If you want to do a recount, you have to meet a certain standard in the percentage of the votes. In order to find out if anything went on in programming, you have to do a forensic examination of the digital events not just ballots.

[Think. Again.]

50. I believe post-election audits are highly recommended...

https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/post-election-audits

[pnwmom]

73. In my state audits are automatically done. My state also has paper ballots

and if hand-audits of the tabulations ever indicated a problem, they could count the rest by hand, too.

And in WA there was no shift to Trump. He lost to Kamala by virtually the same margin as he did to Biden.

[Meowmee]

75. Good

They probably have them here too, but I’m just not familiar with it. The problem is, though if there were a program in the software designed to shift votes, you would have to do a forensic examination of that- there’s a post here about that by someone who is a software programmer. Also ballads can be destroyed and not counted. We all know that. I’m not saying enough of all of this happened to change the results but I am suspicious.

A lot of people on Twitter apparently said their mail in ballot was never counted and that’s just a few that I noticed not everyone would even be there or post about it.

Red states like Texas were stopping people from watching at polls, etc. I think it’s naïve to think there is not some level of cheating by whatever means in each election the question is how much and did it affect the end result?

At x everyone was sure that he would win and I mean his supporters. In my area, there were no signs this time- almost none. The only signs that I saw were for Democrats in this area and nationally on one house. I saw some flag signs for the psycho on a bridge and that was pretty much it.

[pnwmom]

87. If there had been that kind of problem in our tabulation machines,

it would have been revealed in our automatic hand counts of paper ballots -- which are securely held at all times. And there are observers from all parties at these proceedings.

New Mexico, as I understand it, has a similar system. And they also ended up with 2024 results very close to those of 2020.

[Meowmee]

91. Not necessarily according to the programmer

Because they can program it to look normal only do what it’s supposed to do at the time of the election and then maybe even change back to whatever the paper ballot counts was. Plus if ballots were not counted in large numbers that is a whole separate issue obviously.

Also, I’m not sure about this, but I don’t think all of the states use paper ballots anymore. Do they? I already was very unhappy about the use of digital devices in our elections. We have a paper ballot, but then it is counted on a machine and we also have to sign in on an iPad now.

I always take a photograph of my ballot now before I take it to the machine ever since 2016 because I don’t trust the system anymore.

[pnwmom]

92. No, I'm not talking about testing the tabulation machine itself. I understood what Spoonamore said.

I'm saying that they hand-count samples of the paper ballots and if there were a discrepancy between the paper count results and the tabulated account, they could recount by hand all the ballots.

[Meowmee]

101. Yes I see

I guess no one will investigate what he said.

[pnwmom]

107. I wish they would investigate, too. If Democrats were falling for Trump all over the country,

why didn't it happen in New Mexico or Seattle, which don't have much in common except paper ballots that can be re-counted.

[Meowmee]

112. Sadly they won't imo

They are just handing the country over to a a fascist, for good now, without a fight.

[Cha]

59. AND THIS....

Link to tweet

[stillcool]

81. first thing I've read that makes perfect sense

from the outcome of the election, to the non-response. The quiet is so loud.

[Cha]

89. Yes and we knew it.. We Got Enough HINTS. questions about HOW they did

It?

And, incredible that they Announced it on Russian State TV.. Exposing TSF. I guess they're Thumbing their ugly Nose at America and the CIA.

[stillcool]

104. you just know it isn't right

the ramifications are certainly global, and who knows how that affects things. Too big for me to ponder.

[Cha]

115. That one thing is Everything!

Now We RESIST. Now We Fight.

[Cha]

127. Aloha, Chin music

💙

[Kid Berwyn]

197. Air Putins

Teamwork.



Trump says what happens in Putin meeting is 'none of your business'

Trump smiles like a serf for Putin



As the World Burns, All Roads Lead to Putin

Find me a conflict zone, and I’ll find you a Kremlin operative with a blowtorch.

GREG OLEAR
WhoWhatWhy.org, 10/12/23

Taken together, the momentous events of the past month — the Russian “scorched earth” tactics in Ukraine, the Azeri offensive in Nagorno-Karabakh, the abominable Hamas terrorist attack in Israel, and, yes, the GOP dysfunction in Congress that has hamstrung the U.S. government at this critical moment — represent “an existential threat to the post-Westphalian world order,” as former British diplomat Arthur Snell characterized the war in Ukraine.

SNIP…

As president, Trump allowed Sergei Lavrov and Sergei Kislyak, high-level Kremlin officials, access to the Oval Office. He joked around with them. And he shared with them top secret intelligence from Israel, regarding Iran. For all we know, the piece of intelligence Trump gave the Russians that day was subsequently shared with the Iranians, who gave it to Hamas, which used it in planning its attacks on Israel over the weekend.

SNIP…

The Kremlin contagion has only spread. Republicans in Congress seek to obstruct, to weaken, to starve funds for aid to Ukraine, to leave vacant ambassadorships and key military appointments.

I don’t know if “Putin pays” the likes of Sens. Rand Paul (R-KY), Tommy Tuberville (R-AL), Ron Johnson (R-WI), and Reps. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), Jim Jordan (R-OH), and Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA); or if Moscow has enough kompromat on them to pull their marionette strings; or if they are just dumb fascists who sincerely hate democracy and have a hard-on for weirdo strongmen; but, by behaving the way they are, they are actively helping the Kremlin.

SNIP…

Curious, is it not, that tensions escalated in Ukraine, and Armenia/Azerbaijan, and Israel/Palestine right after McCarthy was ousted, during an interregnum where the speaker’s chair is vacant, and Congress therefore cannot function? The primary reason the Republicans tried to shut down the government, remember, is that they objected to sending aid to Ukraine. Gee, I wonder who benefits from that?

CONTINUES…

https://whowhatwhy.org/politics/international/as-the-world-burns-all-roads-lead-to-putin/

Inside Joke:

Then Pee-resident Trump gestures to Russia's then-ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Kislyak, as he speaks to still-Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in the Oval Office on Wednesday, May 10, 2017. (Alexander Shcherbak/TASS/Getty Images)

“I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job," Trump said, according to The Times. "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off.”

"I'm not under investigation," he added.



They all laughed.

Sources:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/10/527755991/trump-meets-with-russias-lavrov-at-the-white-house-today

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-nut-job-james-comey-russia-2017-5


Inside Job:



IMPOTUS: "I actually took one when I -- very recently, when I -- when I was -- the radical left were saying, is he all there? Is he all there? And I proved I was all there, because I got -- I aced it. I aced the test. I took it at Walter Reed Medical Center in front of doctors. And they were very surprised. They said, that's an unbelievable thing. Rarely does anybody do what you just did."

Sources:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/politics/trump-hannity-coronavirus/index.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russias-state-tv-calls-trump-their-agent

What’s another word for being Putin’s Agent? Traitor.

And NOT SEEN on TV:

[Cha]

203. Thank you, Yse they do.

[stillspkg]

85. Let's Go

Investigate please!!

[Botany]

86. Short Answer

They cheated and I am sure Musk and his Starlink were in on it along with Russia too. The #s make no sense.

[ColinC]

93. There were a lot of ways in which the election was "rigged"

But they don't have anything to do with mysterious vote switching or shadowy schemes to manipulate the votes after they were cast. They are mostly baked into our campaign finance laws (or lack thereof), dillution of the VRA, and completely legal.

[Think. Again.]

97. I guess audits would show that.

[ColinC]

100. Audits likely did show that. Audits are a part of most state's voting laws.

[Think. Again.]

118. Only one out of the seven swing states has audits that are "binding" on the final outcome...

https://verifiedvoting.org/publication/recounts-audits-2024-verified-voting/

[Zeitghost]

151. How many of the non-binding audits show irregularities?

??

[Think. Again.]

154. Have they even started audits yet?

I know they're still counting votes in some states, can't really audit if you haven't finished counting.

[lostnfound]

116. GOP access and copying of tabulator software deemed "serious threat to election security"

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/voting-experts-warn-of-serious-threats-for-2024-from-election-equipment-software-breaches

December 2023

The letter sent by nearly two dozen computer scientists, election security experts and voter advocacy organizations asks for a federal probe and a risk assessment of voting machines used throughout the country, saying the software breaches have "urgent implications for the 2024 election and beyond." The breaches affected voting equipment made by two companies that together count over 70 percent of the votes cast across the country, according to the letter

Authorities in three states — Colorado, Georgia and Michigan — have charged people in connection with breaches at local election offices, but there has been no public indication of a federal probe.

The letter sent this week outlines what is known publicly about the efforts to access those voting systems, which began in the weeks after the Nov. 3, 2020, presidential election won by Democrat Joe Biden. It cites a Dec. 18, 2020, meeting in the Oval Office in which Trump allies, including lawyers Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, discussed a desire to access voting machines in presidential swing states Trump lost, according to congressional testimony. It also details subsequent efforts to secure that access.

[Think. Again.]

119. And that doesn't even address the stolen voting machine from Georgia last year.

...or the fact that other stolen machines have shown up on ebay.

[tenderfoot]

126. Every gaslighting disrupter on this sight cannot imagine such a thing

eom

[Igel]

138. Every state I've been in has a nice systematic process.

Early results, which are unofficial and potentially meaningless. Mistakes happen and if they're going to happen, this is the place.

Official canvassing. These are done in person. They compare the final first results with the careful results obtained from the machines or from hand-counting/machine-counted ballots. If there's a problem, they double check. Until the initial canvassing the machines are sealed (i.e., secured with an official seal) and then resealed until all's clear or they're needed for the next election. Ballots are secured and under seal, as well, if they're on paper. Each jurisdiction does its own count--no need for much to over over risky internet, but if it does it's just aggregate numbers.

Many states do spot checks to make sure machines are accurate and there are no glaring errors.

In the event of a mandatory recount, it's good that the machines are sealed and paper ballots are secured (because a "recount" is just a recanvassing; if machine, that's quick; if paper recounts, that takes longer).

If a losing party wants to foot the bill (in most states) for a recount, and it's within any margin that the state legislature imposed, sure, why not. But SCOTUS said there's a drop-dead date for having results certified and submitted to the EC and after that there's no guarantee the state's Electors will be seated.

A week or two prior to elections, everybody was shouting how the federal government said that the elections were secure and sound and never more secure--because it shouted down Trumpsters bellowing otherwise. The discourse has pivoted on a dime (and, personally, it fells, cet. par., like when I first signed up to DU, post-election '04).

[Think. Again.]

142. Wasn't '04 the election where Ohio shunted it's results....

...through an unofficial server in a Tennessee warehouse before shunting them back to be officially counted?

Almost gave carl rove a heart attack on national television when he realized the cheat had been superceded.

[Cetacea]

177. The Central Tabulating Office in Warren County was shut down

...due to "a threat from Al-Qaeda" . Really. Ohio was 2004's Florida.

[Think. Again.]

180. And it's beginning to seem like the lower atmospheric orbit is 2024's Ohio.

[reACTIONary]

152. Thanks!

[Algernon Moncrieff]

155. Hi! This isn't hanging chads and dead people voting in Miami

We got whipped. Kamala didn't get the job done. Accept that and figure out the next move.

[Think. Again.]

156. I believe there is a chance trump may have cheated, and would like to...

...verify the results through post-election audits or recounts.

I accept that and I am hoping the next move is verification of the voting outcomes.

Thank you for your input.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

160. Kamala got thumped square and fair

Misogyny? Yes
Racism? Yep
The Economy? Mostly that.

[Think. Again.]

161. I respect that opinion, do you respect my opinion that trump may have tried to cheat in some way?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

163. Nope. Americans are idiots. And Harris ran a weak race

I posted several months ago that we should have had an open convention and I got juried. I hate to tell DU I told you so....

[Babajida]

174. Harris ran an exemplary race, especially given the time frame

[Think. Again.]

175. I disagree...

I believe there is a far better chance of trump and friends cheating than there is of Harris' campaign being so disliked by the majority of American voters.

[Cetacea]

179. I suppose that you don't know that Gore won

It wasn't the hanging chads. It was suppression of the black vote.
Then SCOTUS stopped the counting.
Five major newspapers eventually counted the votes. Gore won. Nobody cared at that point due to to 9/11 and Bush's 90 precent approval rating.

[questionseverything]

185. Yes he did win

And you are correct, it was in black neighborhoods, voters would darken the oval by his name and also write in his name… even though the intent of the voter was clear the machines didn’t count them because there were two votes

[kerry-is-my-prez]

158. I'm looking at the exit polls. Haven't seen anything so far.

[Think. Again.]

192. That's one indicator that works sometimes...

...but obviously audits and recounts are the only way to know if anything is amiss.

What's the old saying? "Trust, but verify".

[yellow dahlia]

159. I keep singing the same refrain.

RECOUNTS - hand counted paper ballots.

[Dem4life1234]

188. I ask the same thing

This is a thief, a conman who needed to win to keep his ass out of prison and to continue to grift.

It almost seemed too good to be true for him to go away. This monster will try to win at all costs. I remember when he announced he would run again, he just will not go away. He craves it. This is not your random generic GOP candidate. He is a grifting conman along with the nefarious characters who are backing him.