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[polichick]

This message was self-deleted by its author (polichick) on Sun Dec 1, 2024, 05:06 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[spooky3]

1. Mallory Morrow (D-MI) said she believes the election was legit but

that standard procedures in MI are being followed, to doublecheck, audit, certify as needed (my wording).

[Fiendish Thingy]

4. Most states do spot check audits

But don’t publish the results unless there was a problem.

[stopdiggin]

23. the fact that you are not hearing anything

is the answer that you seem unwilling to hear.

This was probably one of the most heavily scrutinized elections ever held. Anything significantly out of order would not have gone unnoticed, or unremarked. Final results (and any audits necessary) will come about as they come about. But at the same time, the handwriting on the wall is both clear, and fairly inescapable ....

[pnwmom]

30. "Most" is not good enough. nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

2. I trust Marc Elias.

He won’t waste any time or energy going down kooky conspiracy rabbit holes.

None of his post election newsletters have had a single word questioning the legitimacy of the election.

If there was something there, he would have recommended to Harris to not concede and to take legal action.

He didn’t, she didn’t, and that’s the end of the story for those of us in the reality based community.

[cilla4progress]

3. He's a lawsuit expert

not a tech expert.

[Fiendish Thingy]

10. He works on a team

If there was credible evidence of tech malfeasance, he would have acted.

These conspiracy theories divert energy that could be better utilized to prepare to support those most vulnerable to the onslaught coming from Trump’s second term.

That is what I expect Elias is doing, along with other lawyers- preparing to file injunctions against Trump’s first wave of fascist assaults on the American people.

That’s a better use of his, or anyone’s time, as Inauguration day approaches.

Unless he dies, Trump will be the next president.

[Dennis Donovan]

11. I would think a tech expert would get through to Elias if there was something there

I have to agree with Fiendish Thingy - there's been no movement legally on the Harris side so I have to think that there's nothing to even stall the process over. There's nothing there. VP Harris didn't prevail as we hoped.🥹

[cilla4progress]

12. tsf won

all the battlegrounds.

[Dennis Donovan]

13. Unexpected, but not impossible.

I agree - it defies logic.

[EdmondDantes_]

17. Did it defy logic when Biden won those same 7 states in 2020?

[onenote]

46. Biden won six of them in 2020, not seven. And it no more defied logic when Biden won 6 that Trump won in 2016

Biden won Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
Trump won North Carolina.
These states are called swing states for a reason. They are closely divided and can go either way. Indeed, Biden's margin of victory in 2020 in these states was small -- he got less than 50% of the vote in four of the six he won and less than 51 in the other two. And four years before that, Trump won all of the swing states that Biden won in 2020, losing only Nevada.

In short, the fact that Trump won swing states in 2016 and then lost them in 2020 and then won them again in 2024 doesn't defy logic.

[DET]

39. Elias Works for the Harris Campaign

Harris still takes direction from Biden. If Biden chooses not to pursue further investigation (a huge mistake, IMO), then Harris and Elias will not. There is also the slim possibility that investigations are actually taking place behind the scenes and they want to lull Trump into complacency.

[Fiendish Thingy]

40. Harris the VP takes orders from Biden

Harris the candidate does not, and neither does her staff, including Elias.

Their decisions regarding the election are their own.

[Srkdqltr]

5. Who would setup this panel of experts? What powers would they have?

I think you should set something up.

[2naSalit]

6. Not making sense...

To me yet so I am not buying.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. DEM leaders? What about GOP leaders? Election deniers are silent

after years of screaming. Now suddenly they're not interested in the issue.

[Kaleva]

37. We weren't interested 4 years ago

We laughed at them .

Now all of a sudden, some here are interested.

[notroot]

44. YUP. Which only feeds further conspiracy theories...

It's the stages of grief. Bargaining is a big one for some folks.

I'm letting it slide for now. I've been doing some of that myself, tho I'm trying to hang onto the anger stage. It brings a certain clarity that the other's lack. It's the looking in the mirror then punching the mirror out phase of self-transformation.

Something, apparently, that we Democrats really kinda need.

[Kaleva]

45. +1

[bucolic_frolic]

48. They made it a brand and an industry.

We have no such organization. We'd just like them to * account for the votes * .

[Kaleva]

49. Which will happen soon when the states certify their election results

The votes will be accounted for then

[jimfields33]

52. Because all 50 states tightened up the election process.

That’s why you virtually don’t hear anything at all about cheating on either side by politicians or state officials.

[ColinC]

8. Democrats nearly won the house. The same votes that voted them in also elected Trump

As well as all down ballot races of people we need to block horrible legislation to come.

If we want to question the legitimacy of his election, we need to also question the legitimacy of our own elected officials. Doing either is not worth it, and lacks any credibility.

[Hope22]

9. As far as I can see everything is fine...

…well VP Harris made some mistakes if I hear the Dem leaders correctly. For me I’m waiting patiently for someone to match the voted ballots with the reported numbers in the battleground states. Who checks that these days. I’ve attended more than one election recount. Worst / best possible case is that everything comes out fine.

[Blue Owl]

14. It seems on the ballot level, things were legit... BUT...

It's the ESS tabulators that seem suspect where hacking and manipulation could have occurred, and it should be checked out. If the "one line of code" that Elon Musk talked about was able to flip vote totals that could have robbed Kamala from winning, and I don't trust him or tRump one goddamned iota. There was also Russian interference in every swing state that should be investigated.

We can't just toss the keys to the insane drunk guy without making sure everything was legitimate because we're the "nice guys" -- there is too much at stake to roll over that easily.......

[Sympthsical]

15. Because party leaders probably don't rely on Twitter and TikTok as information sources

Just spitballing here.

[Prairie Gates]

16. People voted. They counted the votes. Trump won

What's to explain?

[hard2figure]

36. Now you sound like Trump in 2020

Don't you think that is a little bizarre? The election wasn't even close.

[Lulu KC]

60. As it turned out

Very close.

[Skittles]

31. yes, we need to accept the results just like they did after the 2020 election

oh wait.....

[Prairie Gates]

38. I mean, if you want to be a Dem version of a 2020 MAGA

nobody's going to stop you, but it seems not the best response. Weren't 2020 MAGAs foolish idiots?

[Skittles]

59. HELLO

I was pointing out they were fucking foolish idiots.

[intheflow]

25. Biden could demand it with his immunity.

I mean, if there’s anything to be learned from Trump it’s that power is meant to used. C’mon, Joe! Use your power!

[TheKentuckian]

26. Immunity does what here? It conveys no ability to make anyone do anything.

It means that if he does something criminal then he cannot be sanctioned.

If you want him to use his immunity then you probably need to identify what criminal actions you are asking for.

If the response is "I wouldn't want him to do anything illegal", then immunity cannot help.

[tritsofme]

28. What does this even mean? Do you think the immunity ruling means Biden can wave a magic wand and erase the election

or something? I have no clue.

[intheflow]

47. Sorry.

I forgot the for the sarcasm-impaired among us.

[Sympthsical]

56. People have said stuff like that unironically so many times

That it is legitimately difficult to figure out if it's sarcasm without a tag, lol.

[stillcool]

27. maybe it's not a home-grown crime

that would change things a wee bit

[keepthemhonestO]

29. If they don't fight

Damn it, if they don't fight for our election, they are going to make it so people won't feel it's worth it to come out and vote. Although, that probably was our last election with any semblance of a normal one.

[hard2figure]

32. What I don't understand is how Harris had TWELVE MILLION fewer votes than Biden in 2020

WHERE did these voters go? Every friend I talked to was eager to vote for Kamala.

[totodeinhere]

42. A lot of people didn't like either Harris or Trump so they did not vote.

The fact that the administration refuses to stop the genocide in Palestine is one of the main reasons I think.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

54. Simple

Partisans on both sides were fired up to vote. Those in the middle were not. Additionally, 2020 is an outlier. Many states mailed out ballots to basically everyone. Due to quarantines, lockdowns, business closures, social distancing, etc a ton of people had little to do beyond watch the news, sit on social media, and fill out their ballot that got mailed to them. This year, everything is back to normal. If yoi look at vote totals from 2012 to now, every election is within the same range, with slight growth, except 2020, which spiked. 2020 sits as the outlier. This year was the return to normal turnout.

[King of the sheep]

55. 5.6 million fewer:

Updated estimate:
Harris 75.7m votes (48.5%) cf Biden 81.3m votes (51.3%)
Trump 77.9m votes (49.9%) 2020 74.2m (46.9%)
other 2.6m votes (1.6%) 2020 other (1.8%)

Total turnout 156.1m votes (vs 158.6m in 2020)
Trump margin +1.4%
Tipping-point state: PA (Trump +2.0%)

[onenote]

57. Not all the votes have been counted counted.

There are millions of votes yet to be included in the reported totals, particularly in California where the official state website reports that there are nearly 5 million unprocessed votes. Other sources give a smaller number, closer to 4 million; those sources all suggest another 4 million votes from other states are still to be reported. A significant chunk -- probably a majority -- of the uncounted votes are from states that Harris won. So, in all likelihood, Harris will end up with fewer votes than Biden got in 2020, but not anywhere close to 12 million. Indeed, at present, she is down 9.5 million votes below what Biden got. When all the votes are counted, I expect she'll be within 5-6 million of Biden's total, maybe even closer.

As for where the votes that Biden got "went" -- exit polling indicates that 7 percent of the last year's Biden voters switched to Trump or a third party this year. If you assume 155,000,000 votes will be the total number of votes this year when all is said and done, that's 4.8 million votes that Biden got that Harris didn't get. If Harris ends up with 74 million votes, those 4.8 million will make up most of the "missing" Biden votes. The remaining difference reflects the fact that millions of voters who participated in 2020, including millions who voted for Biden, didn't vote at all in 2024. That's not surprising -- it happens every election cycle. For example, 10% of this year's voters didn't vote in 2020. And the 2020 exit poll indicates that 11 percent of the voters in that election didn't vote in 2016. In 2020, a majority of those voters supported Biden. But in 2024, Harris did not do nearly as well with voters who hadn't voted in 2020, but voted in 2024.

It also should be kept in mind that 2020 was a "surge" year -- the number of votes cast was up by 16% over 2016. A drop off in the next cycle isn't that surprising. For example, in 1992, the number of votes cast was up 14% over 1988, and then dropped 8% in 1996. The drop in the number of votes from 2020 to 2024 probably will be less than 4% when all of the votes are counted.

[ancianita]

33. Well... think about this... No. And for damned good reasons.

WHY are Dem leaders so quick to hang up their gloves?! It’s absolute insanity. If they are not going to use every possible tool at their disposal with so much on the line, they need to retire those gloves for good.

.Is it possible that their people are still collecting evidence? Yes, it is!

I mean, come ON, the last day for counting votes isn't until December 11.

So what's the hurry in thinking we should already have the whole picture from macro to micro? Huh?

Let's show some adult patience around here.

[Oliver Bolliver Butt]

34. I was a volunteer poll observer in a swing state

I saw nothing suspicious. The poll workers did excellent work, were dedicated to helping people to vote, and to counting those votes accurately.

[voteragain]

35. Harris

I don't like the results either...but.... until Harris says she is going to challenge the election results that gave trump the win, there is nothing going to happen.
my mother used to tell me nothing is black or white. there is the grey to everything. I never accepted that.
Harris has to say something in my opinion to get Dems to pull together to fight what is coming. a yes or no to all this grey area theories.
if if's and but's were candy and nuts, we would have a merry xmas is an old saying............

[totodeinhere]

41. After spending billions and campaigning her heart out do you think that Kamala would not be all over this

if there were even the slightest chance that the election were not legit? Come on now. She has access to much more information than we do. You need to face it. Trump won. Now start working on the 2026 midterms.

[Meowmee]

43. No

And my prediction is they never will. More of the same.

[Kid Berwyn]

50. Weird silence on that.

Swing states all went to Putin for President, yet sent DEMs to the Senate (still awaiting PA).

[Abnredleg]

51. NC voters often split their votes

We vote GOP for president and Dem for governor

[LucasD]

53. The results should be examined

Since mid-2023, Trump has been saying: "Don't bother voting, we don't need the votes."

I've found five documented instances of him saying this; mostly at rallys, but also during at least one fundraiser.

Then he just started phoning it in at his rallys. He didn't want to be there, because he knew he didn't need to be there.

Trump has a history of saying the quiet parts out loud. We know this, but now we choose to ignore it?