Again, I have no idea when ALOT of us deny that nefarious things happened tht UPENDED the election....

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

For those here on DU who REFUSE to believe that there was ELECTION INTERFERENCE, CHEATING FROM ABROAD THAT HELPED THE APRICOT ASSHOLE courtesy of NEWSWEEK! Apparently reporters are also conspiracy Theorists:



en-us/news/world/donald-trump-has-obligations-to-those-who-brought-him-to-power-putin-ally/ar-AA1tX1h3?ocid=BingNewsSerp
TITLE
Donald Trump Has 'Obligations' to Those Who Brought Him to Power—Putin Ally



Lo and Behold:


Vladimir Putin aide has warned Donald Trump that he is "obliged" to fulfill promises he made during his presidential campaign to bring peace to Ukraine. The President-elect said repeatedly during his campaign to secure his return to the White House that he would put a stop to the more than two and a half years of war in Ukraine "within 24 hours."
And Nikolai Patrushev, part of the Russian president's inner circle and former Secretary of the Security Council, told the Russian newspaper Kommersant that Trump was duty-bound to act on his words.



Patrushev said: "To achieve success in the elections, Donald Trump relied on certain forces to which he has corresponding obligations. And as a responsible person, he will be obliged to fulfill them.



snip
More at the link

[Ninga]

1. While I am not going to disagree, the average walking person has no leverage. DOJ, CIA and our

allies would be the vehicles to investigate.
Our hands are tied.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

9. EXACTLY & let's just say that I KNOW peeps in the Intelligence that, although they were , um how do I put this..

the Alphabet angencies AND the 5 eyes, (if you know, you know) laid a trap because they remember the attempted overthrow OF our government & he's been monitored for a number of years, just saying. They implied that ALOT of things have been happening away from the eyes of the verage Joe Blow & Susie Average. Unlike the Radioactive Oompa Loopa, Kamala & lawyers are not going to scream from the rafters what is happening. Look at this situation like a high stakes Poker. They're keeping their cards VERY close to the chest.

If our hands are ties, it's because there are behind the scenes Biden, Kamala, the 5 eyes, (mostly foreign intelligence-UK, US, AUSTRALIA, CANADA & NEW ZEALAND) & CONFIDENTIAL BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

[JoeBydun]

2. rigged

Something definitely is suspicious about the election. I just can't believe after all the shit the orange clown did not only did he win all 7 swing states but even the popular vote. I see nothing wrong asking for a recount.

[keepthemhonestO]

7. Right

Let's pick Pennsylvania and North Carolina for instance , when we find problems there then move onto some other battleground states. Personally, I would want to do all battleground states right out of the gate. There is no way all these people came out and voted all blue except for that idiot at the top of the ballot.

I wish Truthisall was here to run through for what the probability of that happening would be. 😓

[tritsofme]

25. lol, TruthIsAll turned into a Trump 2020 truther. Utterly unsurprising.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

13. He didn't win but it looks like THIS TIME AROUND, he's not going to be able to just walze into the WH.

I had tearfilled, (panicky) phone calls from Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin & a few other states & I mean DOZENS who told me how they weren't allowed to vote after the bogus bomb email event, their ballot were rejected or just disappeared. I don't understand why so many, ESPECIALLY here on DU are being snarky bitches and Claling me a conspiracist. I'm noticing they ain't got SH!T TO SAY after I posted proof that starlink WAS connected to the voting machines. That happened in Tulare county, here in the Golden State. That area, near Fresno is red hat hell & I'm SO NOT SURPRISED! the point is that the machines were hacked beause they were connected to the Net.
ABC30 News Tulare County used Starlink with Voting Machines

Here, HOMEGIRL registrar of voters Michelle Balwin just set her happy ass down with that resting b***h face & blythly admitted that their polls were connected to Starlink & the former head muckity muck of Secretary of the Security Council gave an interview to NEWSWEEK & ADMITTED that Putin helped trump in a QUID PRO QUO situation!

Donald Trump Has 'Obligations' to Those Who Brought Him to Power—Putin Ally
https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-nikolai-patrushev-donald-trump-russia-1984360Vladimir Putin aide has warned Donald

Trump that he is "obliged" to fulfill promises he made during his presidential campaign to bring peace to Ukraine. The President-elect said repeatedly during his campaign to secure his return to the White House that he would put a stop to the more than two and a half years of war in Ukraine "within 24 hours."
And Nikolai Patrushev, part of the Russian president's inner circle and former Secretary of the Security Council, told the Russian newspaper Kommersant that Trump was duty-bound to act on his words. Patrushev said: "To achieve success in the elections, Donald Trump relied on certain forces to which he has corresponding obligations. And as a responsible person, he will be obliged to fulfill them.

snip


Read more at the link...

[stopdiggin]

21. it's a case of you clearly not understanding

the same material that you are posting.

Posters are not deliberately being mean to you - - they are just pointing out where you are clearly wrong. The connection of StarLink to voting tabulation (which to date you have made multiple times) as an example.

[Zeitghost]

71. No, Tulare county did not connect voting machines to Starlink

Voting machines in California are forbidden by law from having even the ability to connect to a network and state election officials are all managed by Democrats in Sacramento.

What Tulare County did use Starlink for is connecting laptops to State voter rolls and voter registration networks to ensure anyone needing to could vote by provisional ballot or register at a polling place on election day, even in rural areas with no reliable internet or cell connectivity.

This has been pointed out on DU dozens of times.

[ananda]

35. Yes, recounts would solve the whole problem...

one way or another.

[keepthemhonestO]

3. I'm with you

There is so much blatant , in your face evidence concerning it. Again, It's the highest office in the land and the world. Of course he want that power and money. He'll take our country even more so this time. Let alone abuse illegal citizens and he said citizens as well. Be the enemy with that he says we are.

[brush]

4. We are so in trouble. Seems our newly elected leader is oblicated to Putin and Russia.

Thanks red voters for your alleged "economic anxiety" reason for voting for the orange, Russian asset.

[Dem4life1234]

6. I'm glad this is getting traction

Cause ain't no way that idiot won fair.

We will not be silenced about it.

[Bonx]

8. Team CT hard at work

Have fun with that.

[Emile]

10. After Jan 6th, nothing would surprise me!

[marybourg]

11. I'm getting irked at the sh*t-stirring going on here today,

mostly from low-number posters. Bring some evidence of fraud. Speculation doesn’t count.

[Think. Again.]

14. I agree, investigations must be done to move this...

...from speculation to evidence of fraud or innocence.

[stopdiggin]

16. "many of the numbers don't make sense" (says some bozo on TiKTok ... )

or was it Instagram?

But, hey - if you want an excellent example of the kind of games that our adversaries love to play ....
( thinking Russians here - as that is the subject of the OP - but certainly others, both internal and external, apply ) (our friend, Elon - agent provocateur in plain sight ... )

[NJCher]

18. don't click on the thread if you don't like it

eom

[stopdiggin]

23. provide some evidence

otherwise you're providing 'push' to the 'election deniers' and conspiracy bandwagon.

[NJCher]

29. no I'm not

It's called "brain storming." Group work on figures, which you can go verify for yourself if you're so inclined.

Stop impeding my right to speech. Just stay off the thread if you don't like it.

[stopdiggin]

33. I'm thoroughly invested in this thread

(and several previous threads by this poster)
In an effort to confront and combat what I see as misinformation. (and disservice to the community)

And who(m) is out there telling others not to click or comment, "if you don't like it" ?
Free speech ?

[NJCher]

34. OK, when I get back from work

I'll go look at your answers to see if that is indeed what you're doing.

In the meantime, it doesn't help much that your user name is "stopdiggin."

[stopdiggin]

36. the fact that you interpret the username

to infer something to do with 'investigation' ...

Means that you missed the (very common) usage it was intended to reference.

when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging

[LAS14]

28. How can we register our disagreement if we don't click?????? nt

[NJCher]

31. you've made your point many times before

I'm sure others are aware of it.

[LAS14]

32. Glad to know that you've noticed!!! Thanks!! nt

[peregrinus]

52. Just saw apiece about the VFW

How they can’t young vets and new blood. With your attitude I can why things like that happen. The old guard scares away any new recruits. But by all means keep it up.

[stopdiggin]

12. the idea that the Russian (AND Chinese, and probably Iranians as well as others)

government were involved in efforts to sway the election was know well ahead of time - and thoroughly reported on by both our intelligence communities and mainstream media. In no way is/was this any sort of secret or surprise! And in fact this was not the first such efforts, or the first such election targeted - with the difference being that this time we WERE so thoroughly warned and prepared in advance.

But, at the end of the day, it was once again American citizens who marked their ballot and rendered this result. (whether 'influenced' by propaganda, or their own meatheaded impulses, or not). And that, good friends, is both the prescription and result that the democratic process calls for.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[pnwmom]

38. It wasn't Americans -- it was Russians who called in the bomb threats in PA

that shut down polling places. When they finally reopened, a judge denied the request to extend the hours.

THAT'S election interference by the Russians, and I'm sure there were other examples.

[stopdiggin]

40. "and I'm sure there were other examples"

then provide them please.

The general consensus is that this election went fairly smoothly (and with a great deal of observation and oversight) Election officials across the country are almost unanimous in calling this a legitimate process, with a legitimate result.

I hope that you can eventually find your way to that same realization. Conspiracy sucks.

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/06/nx-s1-5181834/election-day-voting-bomb-threats

[pnwmom]

44. Why are you dismissing the bomb threats that shut down polling places in multiple blue districts? nt

[stopdiggin]

45. not dismissing - saying that in the end

(according to most respected observers. and there were quite a number of them for this election) - the threats ended up having little real impact. So - while more than willing to call them disgusting and deplorable (as is any sort of effort to disenfranchise) - I'm also quite willing to side with what I consider the balanced and more 'informed' take ... And that is, "In the end - Trump won." And by margins that don't cast a lot of doubt.

[Ysabel]

48. How do you know how much impact..

it had?

I wouldn't have wanted to go vote in person (there were about 50 bomb threats here in Madison). I would have been afraid to go stand in a line (I've had people physically harass me at the polls before). Fortunately I didn't have to do that because I mailed in my ballot. I worried a lot about my son in Illinois who voted in person because they had a lot of bomb threats there as well...

[stopdiggin]

50. people trying to 'restrict' my vote ...

are making SURE that that I get my ass out there !
(but more than that - and like you yourself pointed out - in today's elections - there's about a hundred other ways ... )

Harris numbers were down .... Significantly. And that includes places where everything when smooth as silk. Woulda', coulda', shoulda', isn't going to carry us across the line on this one.

[pnwmom]

55. In NC alone the Republicans managed to purge 740K voter registrations in left leaning

Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2024, 01:52 AM - Edit history (1)

and minority districts.

No one should be dismissing the potential impact of those purges. The R's carrying them out knew they could make a difference.

[stopdiggin]

59. were those purges legal ? carried out according to agreed parameter and code?

(in which case it's not 'cheating' - nor remotely in the same category as 'bomb threats', correct? and, moreover - really doesn't even qualify as 'voter suppression'. )

Every state, by federal law, is required to update (and thus 'purge' ) voting rolls on a regular basis. My take would be (absent any solid evidence to the contrary) (and there crops up that pesky word 'evidence' again) that the vast majority of those names removed from the polls - were probably done for sound and honest reasons. And, as in any other state - anyone that is erroneously purged (not a frequent occurrence, but it can happen) - has every opportunity to validate and renew their registration for any election.

But, once again - that takes people willing to get off their butts - and go do it!

[pnwmom]

61. Targeting blue districts and blue voters is cheating, even if R leaders allow it to happen nt

[stopdiggin]

69. there are a number of factors regarding why

voting rolls in blue districts are subject to more error. Mobility for one. (districts or precincts are much more compact, with people much more apt to move in and/or out) And the next would be sporadic voting records. (people that don't vote consistently and/or miss several elections) In both cases, rural and suburban districts show less of these issues ...

Voting rolls need to be cleaned up - as function of clean and orderly elections. And, again - voters can assist in this process greatly - by doing their own part.

How many times did we hear "check your registration" - in the weeks and months running up ... ?

[pnwmom]

77. This is from the Brennan Center for Justice. "Mass purges are the new voter suppression."

Back in March they and the NYT saw the R's already engaged in this. Maybe you'll learn something.

The New York Times recently detailed an organized effort involving leaders of the election denial movement. One is Cleta Mitchell, who joined Donald Trump on the notorious phone call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger that is now the subject of two separate indictments. Another is a top deputy to pillow-magnate-turned-election-conspiracy-theorist Mike Lindell. Their acolytes are launching mass challenges of voter registrations, sometimes 1,000 at a time. They say it’s a citizen-led effort to update the rolls and reduce the potential for voter fraud. Don’t believe it for a second.

For one thing, their efforts appear to be focused on precincts that lean Democratic or are home to large communities of color. This seems to be about politics, not voter-roll hygiene.

Another clue: their methods are bogus. In one incident, activists sent a local election office a list of people on the U.S. Postal Service’s mail-forwarding list who remained registered to vote in the district. Election officials know this is a shoddy approach to roll maintenance. People can ask for their mail to be forwarded for any number of reasons, including college, temporary work assignments, or caring for sick or elderly relatives elsewhere. Sometimes voters haven’t moved an inch; they’ve merely been listed as relocated because someone else in the household asked for mail to be forwarded. In all of these scenarios, the person remains eligible to vote.

A challenge alone should not, in theory, prevent someone from voting. But it can kick off an investigation that results in removal from the rolls if the citizen fails to respond to inquiries — in other words, if they miss a piece of mail. (My colleague Alice Clapman offers a detailed explanation of the right and wrong ways for states to identify ineligible voters and of the laws protecting voters in that process.)

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/mass-purges-are-new-voter-suppression

[stopdiggin]

78. did you read your own article ?

what is described here is clearly NOT the same process as the (state sponsored) cleaning up of voter rolls.

Every time I respond to you - you appear to then pivot and pitch a different scenario. Do you imagine the silly ham-handed 'operation' illustrated above - had any real effect in disenfranchising significant numbers? Or are we just arguing for the sake of argument?

[pnwmom]

79. Why are you assuming that all the purging is normal state-sponsored purging

when we know that R's in many states have been challenging thousands of registrations?

And why do any states at all purge registrations of voters who haven't voted for a while? Do you know that many states don't do that? And they also don't purge a registration if they learn a voter has moved within their district without sending a notice to the elections office.

[stopdiggin]

80. and you are of course aware that Pennsylvania

uses both ERIC (touted in the Brennan Center article that you sourced) - as well as most other 'best practices' as recommended by the EAC ?
https://www.usa.gov/agencies/u-s-election-assistance-commission

Ballot challenges fizzle ...
https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2024/11/mail-ballot-application-challenges-pennsylvania-fair-elections/

Are the MAGA crowd a bunch of big meanies and thugs .. ? Not a doubt in my mind. Did any the chicanery that they dreamed up result in the election of Donald Trump? I (and the preponderance of objective election observers ?) am seeing no good evidence to make me think so. At least to date. And so it remains until I do.

And with that - I think we have now thoroughly established that we are two voice talking past each other.
And with that in mind, I will bid you good evening.

[pnwmom]

54. I was hearing different respected observers then. And the margins weren't as big as you think. nt

[Ysabel]

49. p.s. you can fuck off with your violin too...

you're mean!

[D23MIURG23]

15. Because they echo the conspiracy theories of 4 years ago. If something happened that altered the outcome, prove it

If you can't prove it happened it's bullshit.

If you can't prove it altered the outcome, it's irrelevant.

If all you have is speculation, then I don't want to hear it. I want Democrats to stay with the reality based community.

[stopdiggin]

17. thank you !! plainly stated - and quite necessary.

If you have evidence - then by all means, "bring it to the table."

If you do not - - - then wait until you do, or stop stirring the sh*t
(because that's all your offering right now)

[RandiFan1290]

66. * you're

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

19. How 'bout you go read this link where the former Sec of Security Co & the video where the Registrar of Voters

Michelle Baldwin, in Tulare County admitted that Starlink was connected to their voting machines...BTW, we're NOT lying or making shit up because we can't accept the outcome. Unlike maga, we DO have Receipts...
https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-nikolai-patrushev-donald-trump-russia-1984360
Donald Trump Has 'Obligations' to Those Who Brought Him to Power—Putin Ally
Read it and weep, dear.Oh & there's the Youtube vid where Homegirl SAID THAT STARLINK was connected to their voting machines. Here's the interview:
ABC30 News Tulare County used Starlink with Voting Machines

[onenote]

22. How about you read this discussion.

Here's what was stated about Tulare and Starlink:

Genya Coulter, senior election analyst for the OSET Institute, a nonprofit focused on accurate, secure and transparent elections, said she knew Starlink technology had been used to support election infrastructure in one place: Tulare County, California. Trump won Tulare County with about 60% of the vote.

"Most of the rural part of the county has little to no access to broadband, and Starlink was used to have the electronic pollbooks connected to a county voter database," Coulter said. Pollbooks are lists of digital voter registration records.

Vote tabulators weren’t connected to Starlink satellite internet, she said, adding that the county had about 28,000 in-person voters."

You know why Democratic lawyers aren't going to challenge the results based on the "starlink conspiracy"? Because they don't want to lose their law licenses or end up owning defamation damages.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/nov/12/threads-posts/no-elon-musks-starlink-wasnt-used-to-rig-the-2024/

[stopdiggin]

27. people that understand this story

say that it does not back the claims that you make for it. In short, your 'receipts' are not receipts. Again.

[LAS14]

30. Yeah. Reality based is (was?) an important part of our identity. I'm distressed by DU...

... sounding like the right nut jobs.

[Eyeball_Kid]

37. Wow. Do I disagree with this!

DU posters do NOT have the resources to bring proof. It's totally unreasonable to make that demand. The people who can legitimately question the data have resources (i.e., money and influence) to investigate. To prematurely conclude that a poster's concerns are illegitimate because s/he is in no position to conduct an investigation is irrational and irresponsible. Legitimate questions can be raised by anyone as a working hypothesis. We'd all still be thinking that Oswald was the "lone assassin" if no one questioned the data.

[stopdiggin]

46. then don't make claims

that have nothing backing them up. 'Legitimate questions' generally have some foundation. Conspiracy nonsense on the other hand ....

And the disturbing fact is - that in today's world, a lot of us are just not very good at discerning the difference.

I can 'question' whether the Dodgers really won the series ...
Question is - does that 'questioning' really deserve any serious hearing?

[Blue_Roses]

68. Oh for fuck's sake...

You are trying so hard to throw massive amounts of water on anyone who has any "speculation", as you call it. They can say what the fuck they want to as long as it's in the rules of DU.

This election has been devastating to so many of us. Everybody has their OWN way of coping and YOU are not the one to silence them! Just don't get on the thread if you disagree so much! But, trying to tell people how to think or feel is like trying to rustle a sack of cats.

And one last thing while it's on my mind.

Many great things have been invented by scientists who had a sense of "something" and by pursuing that "something" to fruition. It has resulted in good and bad outcomes. And yes, Einstein is the first to come to mind, along with many many others. Discussion of thoughts and feelings lays the groundwork for productivity and new insights. Ignoring or downplaying someone's "thoughts" on a matter that is important to THEM is what stifles creativity and freedom.

We already have that starting to happen with Trump winning this election. No one needs this here, where we come to express our fears (and there's a hellava lot of them), our hopes, our confusion, and so many other emotions right now. This is a safe-haven to us who ARE SCARED AND WORRIED.

Conspiracy theories are totally different than blatant voter suppression and I can say that with facts in this nutty state of Texas.

[stopdiggin]

70. appreciate your input

but in the end I I feel like I have every bit as much right to 'voice' my thoughts and opinion as the next. And the fact is I have a strong aversion and disinclination toward what I see as misinformation. As stated several times, I think it is a disservice to the community. And I think it deserves to be combated. 'Election denial' is after all not an innocuous thing.

So, if somebody comes of the board spouting, "I KNOW this and that ..." I think it's entirely within bounds to come back with, "Really? And just how do you 'know' that?"

[Blue_Roses]

81. I don't think you get what I'm saying

I am not trying to be rude about this, but it is not your place to demean or insult someone with what looks like "badgering". While I agree, if someone is saying things that need back up, that's fair. But, sometimes one just has a gut feeling about something with no actual proof, other than watching the nefarious things happening right in front of their eyes.

Not everything comes with proof, especially if it's not researched. But, in order for it to be researched, there has to be interest and THAT'S what I'M talking about. Not the proof you need unequivocally, for court. That kind of proof comes later, after researching.

[stopdiggin]

83. try rereading

and specifically the OP. Posts #15, 19, 22, 37 - - and you might get a better idea of the misinformation (and pushback) that I'm addressing. Check the recent postings by the author of this OP. You will find examples of not just opinion, but statements of fact that are just flatly WRONG. (and that might have been part of why I waded into this string?) With due respect, I reserve the right to confront these misstatements - and the posters that are promulgating. To my thinking taking up that stance is both worthwhile, and proper board etiquette.

And as far as etiquette, I'm sorry if that comes across to some as hectoring or badgering - that IS annoying, and certainly not the intent. But - as mentioned before this is not all just about innocuous 'opinion', but also about the spread of real misinformation. And if I have to cross swords with other posters in that effort ... So be it.

Now - lets both of us go on to having a nice morning. (or what we can manage under these trying times ..)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Blue_Roses]

67. Thank-you and well said!

[Loupe Garoue]

24. They did it a different way

https://spoutible.com/thread/37794013

[Ligyron]

56. Now that IS interesting.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[MineralMan]

26. What link? I don't see a link.

[littlemissmartypants]

39. A lot, two words. ❤️

Updated:
VP Harris needed to do better than Biden and Trump to win but the unaffiliated who we needed didn't vote for her and all the other Democrats we needed who voted for Biden stayed home.

As hard as we worked, as extensive as our ground game was, as much money as we donated and spent...it still wasn't enough to bring out our fellow Democrats who voted for President Biden and have them vote for Kamala. Our own peeps left us high and dry, apparently.

The numbers in question:
2020 JB 81,283,501
2024 KH 71,159,488
Difference: 10,124,013

Updated 11/12 @ 1440
2024 KH 71,815,611
CHANGE: 9,467,890

Still not enough voters turning up.

What happened to ALL OF those VOTERS?

PLEASE explain.

[Zeitghost]

73. You can't just compare the results of one candidate

There will be fewer voters in 2024 than in 2020. That total will likely be somewhere around 4-5 million fewer once every vote is counted.

Harris will end up with ~7 million fewer votes than Biden. Trump will get about 4 million more votes than he did in 2020. There were also about 0.5 - 1 million fewer 3rd party votes in 24.

[littlemissmartypants]

74. Sure I can.

I can compare what ever I like.

Have you seen some of the postmortem descriptions here?

I'm actually done with thinking about the 2024 election.

Time to move on. We have 2025 to plan for now.

But thanks for your reply, Zeitghost. ❤️



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_United_States_elections?origin=serp_auto

[Zeitghost]

75. You're correct

You can compare whatever you like. You just will get better comparisons when looking at the entire picture.


I do like your plan to look towards the future, many people here need to do more of that.

[JoseBalow]

41. An appeal to drumpf's "word," and his sense of "duty?"

[Orrex]

42. Right? Maybe Trump will accidentally fall out of a high window accidentally

When he renegs on his obligation.

[bluescribbler]

43. "As a responsible person"?

I don't think that description fits the slobfather.

[Blue_Tires]

47. I didn't say anything at the time, but

1. The Supreme Court Immunity decision always seemed really strange (unless they already knew TFG was going to win) because we already know the Gang of Six is bought and paid for to deliver far-right rulings, and they'd never give a Democratic president this much executive power...

2. The visits to MAL from Netanyahu, Orban, a couple other heads of state and the regular phone calls from Putin when nobody was meeting with Harris as if she was already the presumptive POTUS were also really weird (unless they already knew TFG was going to win)

3. The owners of the L.A. Times and Washington Post twisting the arms of their editorial boards in the 11th hour to NOT endorse Harris was a distinct oddity (unless they knew TFG was going to win)

4. Then there's Bezos' Blue Origin execs meeting with TFG a fucking week before the election (which he denied all knowledge of and actually claimed it had nothing to do with the endorsement decision) and his overly effusive congratulatory tweet seemed a bit improper (unless he knew TFG was going to win)

5. And TFG himself pretty much had half his cabinet selected a couple of months ago, leaking out announcements to the press about this nutbar and that nutbar being the frontrunners for such and such position... Nobody ever does this shit (unless he knew he was going to win)

6. And I'm not even getting into his "secret plan" with Johnson and "we have all the votes we need"....

[Autisminsight]

51. Audit

Dems control the state governments in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. How about they do a thorough forensic audit of voting equipment now…and shut both sides up

[tritsofme]

72. This isn't really a "both sides" thing. There is a small contingent of conspiracy theorists on the internet

and everyone else.

[Jinny]

53. But Joe welcomed Trump to the WH today? He was very accomodating and cordial.

[Tribetime]

57. Well it appears the senate race in pennsylvania will go to a recount

So maybe we will see if anything comes from it

[ecstatic]

58. I hear you. The problem at this point is that our side conceded and moved on

So who is going to investigate or do anything about it? If it's true, it's also true that they got away with it. Is there anything that can be done at this point?

For what it's worth, I think it was the stay at home folks who were mad about Gaza. We were warned that they would do this and they did.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/13-ex-biden-voters-gaza

[Polybius]

60. *A lot

[Meowmee]

64. I think there should be an audit in the three key states at least

Which includes a forensic investigation of the tabulation software. That would hopefully give us some answers, even if it wouldn’t change the result. In my mind, a lot of people seemed to know that he was going to win. They were all very confident on x. And he himself said multiple times at his rallies that people didn’t have to vote for him because he already had the votes- meaning for this election, not meaning that there would be no elections after this election…he also told them to vote by mail in ballot. Which is the opposite of what he said last time.

[TheKentuckian]

65. I don't refuse to believe anything. Where's the beef?

When one says we was robbed no matter how I wish that to be the case rather than eating the L, there is a minimum obligation to identify specifically how so that can be investigated and the facts found.

I'm not saying you are wrong at all, you misunderstand.

I'm saying there is no direct evidence or even a functional accusation.

Also, what would prove to you that the election was legitimate?
If the answer is nothing but there is no evidence, then this is not from a place of reason even if it somehow later turns out to be true.

Our incredulity is not evidence, it isn't really even much of an argument.

I think at present the stop the steal argument is somehow weaker than the one four years ago because it was way closer and Powell at least spun up dead ass Hugo Chavez hacking the machines nonsense, we don't even have a theory this time just broad, deep, and general unease.

[zorbasd]

76. My take is that pouring insane amounts of

billionaire money to flood social media with disinformation and propaganda works very well.

The US public has been flooded with RW fascistic propaganda for so many years, like 40, and the coming of social media, is enormously influential, leading to a Jim Jones cult like following. Very powerful.

[Captain Zero]

82. trump. a responsible person?

Maybe the russkies are about to find out, he does what he wants from minute to minute.