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Yavin4

(36,488 posts)
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 03:16 PM Nov 12

The truest thing you will read today.

It bears repeating that shit like OANN, Newsmax, Infowars, hell even Stormfront, NEVER had a paywall. Meanwhile you get 2 free NYT articles per year if you create an account and sign up via email and start your free trial by inputting your credit card information and email activation code and the reason people believe dumb shit and conspiracies is because the dumb shit is free and the truth costs $9.99/mo



https://bsky.app/profile/infomercial.bsky.social/post/3larg5di2z22p
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The truest thing you will read today. (Original Post) Yavin4 Nov 12 OP
Can Jones start broadcasting again under a different name? peregrinus Nov 12 #1
With NYT, you get plenty of BS plus the privilege Bluetus Nov 13 #56
You must mean SANEWASHED truth costs. And it does. dchill Nov 12 #2
Truth plus several grains of salt with the NYT? brush Nov 12 #3
Also, media is all controlled by about six people Bettie Nov 12 #4
THANK YOU!! It is REPUBLICAN OWNED--"corporate" is not descriptive of ownership. live love laugh Nov 12 #10
The media is only as liberal as the conservative corporations that own it. CrispyQ Nov 13 #51
Would someone please list the 6 people? Seriously, I don't know who they all are. OverBurn Nov 13 #52
Some dumb shit is free and other dumb shit costs $9.99/mo, apparently. ECL213 Nov 12 #5
Closer to the truest thing than the other. ❤️ littlemissmartypants Nov 12 #9
Caveat: littlemissmartypants Nov 12 #12
Hear Hear! OldBaldy1701E Nov 12 #6
deleted. palinny Nov 12 #7
It's designed that way, I suspect. calimary Nov 12 #8
I wouldn't say NYT provides "the truth". Fiendish Thingy Nov 12 #11
I wouldn't either. Nor the Washington Post soldierant Nov 12 #36
True but few of the dumbass kinfuckers read that Yankee rag the NYT. Ligyron Nov 13 #46
FOX has been included in cable packages for free since the get-go MomInTheCrowd Nov 12 #13
PBS Mr.Bee Nov 12 #17
As I understand it markodochartaigh Nov 12 #21
yup! nt LittleGirl Nov 12 #28
I pay for cable and it includes Fox News Progressive dog Nov 13 #50
Fox ReadItnWeep Nov 12 #30
Their shit is free LeftInTX Nov 12 #14
The truth will set you free, but it'll cost you..... lastlib Nov 12 #15
Yeah, but it's gonna cost 'em more than $9.99 a month after Anal Fistula gets through with 'em. 3Hotdogs Nov 12 #16
I dispute that NYT is "the truth" Renew Deal Nov 12 #18
Agreed. The NYT is right-wing lies they want you to PAY for N/T Steven Maurer Nov 12 #19
MSNBC is difficult KT2000 Nov 12 #20
Yep. Discount on cable bill for 24:7 fox Ninga Nov 12 #24
FOX comes included in my basic cable package Ohioboy Nov 12 #22
i have been saying this for a long time. Liberal billionnaires are not willing to invest in free media samsingh Nov 12 #23
When all vetted and researched info is behind paywalls, the majority will see only lies, CT's and hate posts. usonian Nov 12 #25
This is the most important observation I've read DaBronx Nov 12 #26
RW Own the Media DownriverDem Nov 12 #27
How many of you use Google? Ndp5 Nov 12 #29
Bunk. They can make their online editions free with ads. Yavin4 Nov 12 #35
YouTube and Spotify don't have to spend the kind of money to get content that the online newspapers do. LauraInLA Nov 13 #40
Spotify pays for Joe Rogan Yavin4 Nov 13 #47
But many people pay for Spotify. A family account is something like $16 per month. LauraInLA Nov 13 #54
I'm not saying get rid of the paywall entirely. Yavin4 Nov 13 #55
Ok. I can't think of a realistic way to place a "must-read-or-view" ad in the middle of an article. It LauraInLA Nov 13 #57
They really cannot Ndp5 Nov 13 #44
I'm sorry. This is a cop out. Yavin4 Nov 13 #48
Comparing apples and Cheetos Ndp5 Nov 13 #58
Yep. I was just reading about Baumol's cost disease: LauraInLA Nov 13 #62
Related to our discussion: "Journalism's fight for survival in a postliterate democracy" LauraInLA Nov 13 #61
Thank you!!! LauraInLA Nov 13 #39
I don't use Google if I can help it jfz9580m Nov 13 #43
They're all over YouTube Montauk6 Nov 12 #31
Buffett tried to save local news but couldn't fix the ad biz Ndp5 Nov 13 #45
Everything I know about Trump did not come from conservative media ItsjustMe Nov 12 #32
Moonves 3:16 - "It may not be good for America, but it's DAMN good for CBS." Montauk6 Nov 13 #60
54% of Americans are literate to just below a sixth grade level. NYT written at too high of a grade level for most. Hotler Nov 12 #33
EXACTLY. SunSeeker Nov 12 #34
Kick dalton99a Nov 12 #37
I started to set up a spot on BlueSky The Wandering Harper Nov 12 #38
I like the name you're using here ;). Would that work for you? LauraInLA Nov 13 #41
thank you :) The Wandering Harper Nov 13 #42
I find lots of competent news in other countries RainCaster Nov 13 #49
I wouldn't exactly call the NYT true. lees1975 Nov 13 #53
Possible solution... Josiesdad Nov 13 #59
We need to do a huge info campaign about using your library membership to access e-periodicals. LauraInLA Nov 13 #63
It costs money to research for the truth. Lies are totally free. nt LAS14 Nov 13 #64

peregrinus

(336 posts)
1. Can Jones start broadcasting again under a different name?
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 03:20 PM
Nov 12

I saw that he was crying/begging for help yesterday and claimed that auditors were coming in his studio and selling off the equipment today. Can he regroup or will all future business endeavors be subject to asset forfeiture?

Bettie

(17,175 posts)
4. Also, media is all controlled by about six people
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 03:25 PM
Nov 12

all of whom are right wing, so the "truth" isn't usually truth either.

CrispyQ

(38,366 posts)
51. The media is only as liberal as the conservative corporations that own it.
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 10:38 AM
Nov 13

That's a bumper sticker I saw many years ago. Another one I saw & liked was "Tax cuts don't matter if you don't have a job."

littlemissmartypants

(25,635 posts)
12. Caveat:
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 03:57 PM
Nov 12

There are several ways around pay walls.
And...
I just don't believe people know how to think as well as they used to say, ten years ago.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses when they are bombarded with propaganda and don't know how to think.

If thinking was more like urination we might not be in this mess.

Fluid, produces urges, can be examined on sight for problems with health...

People don't do abstract brain things anymore, apparently.

❤️

calimary

(84,445 posts)
8. It's designed that way, I suspect.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 03:47 PM
Nov 12

To get people hooked in. With lies that reinforce everything they want to believe in.

And some of ‘em don’t even feel it when it’s happening. Pox Noise glitzes it up really nice ‘n’ fancy, with lots of fancy decorative women thrown in - to look at, too, and these chumps don’t feel a thing.

Unfortunately, their stupidity and gullibility fucks over ALL of America.

Fiendish Thingy

(18,620 posts)
11. I wouldn't say NYT provides "the truth".
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 03:53 PM
Nov 12

They consistently sanewashed Trump for the whole election campaign.

That is a bigger problem than their paywall.

soldierant

(7,922 posts)
36. I wouldn't either. Nor the Washington Post
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 11:45 PM
Nov 12

Some trtrh, but so mixed with "normalization" that it's almost unrecognizable

markodochartaigh

(2,172 posts)
21. As I understand it
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 04:27 PM
Nov 12

Fox is not free. I think that cable companies must pay Fox to carry Fox's content. If I understand it correctly, everyone who has cable which carries Fox is, in effect, subsidizing Fox because the cable companies do not charge separately for Fox.

So Fox isn't free, it is just that, all bundled up, cable subscribers do not realize that they are paying for it.

ReadItnWeep

(52 posts)
30. Fox
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 05:22 PM
Nov 12

And isn't Fox the default station on the television at our military bases?

I remember reading this years ago and thinking it was an incredibly irresponsible policy.

KT2000

(20,879 posts)
20. MSNBC is difficult
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 04:22 PM
Nov 12

to get on streaming services. Meanwhile, fox plays in waiting rooms all over the country. I would love to know what deal they make with the streaming services. Fox probably pays them.

samsingh

(17,900 posts)
23. i have been saying this for a long time. Liberal billionnaires are not willing to invest in free media
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 04:43 PM
Nov 12

republican and maga ones are.

we have a huge disadvantage.

usonian

(14,100 posts)
25. When all vetted and researched info is behind paywalls, the majority will see only lies, CT's and hate posts.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 04:56 PM
Nov 12

I posted this earlier.



But changed it recently.

DownriverDem

(6,663 posts)
27. RW Own the Media
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 05:05 PM
Nov 12

TV, talk radio, local news stations (some areas) & podcasts. They get their message out 24/7. Rich liberals need to step up. We had some balance when Air America was on the radio. There is no balance.

Ndp5

(82 posts)
29. How many of you use Google?
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 05:17 PM
Nov 12

Look, I’m sorry, but the reason the NYT and other publications are behind a paywall is because they can’t support a serious news gathering operation on ad revenue alone.

And the reason online advertising is so out of whack is Google, which through anticompetitive practices sucked up $237.9 BILLION in online ad revenue in 2023. Together with Meta and Amazon, it accounts for the majority of online ad revenue in America.

The reason those right wing outlets can operate on the cheap is because they mostly spout bullshit and react to real news generated by newspapers.

You could see this problem coming a mile away. I remember talking about it with fellow door-knockers on the first Obama campaign, who agreed it was sorta troubling that news outlets were starting to disappear or slash staff, but said they hadn’t given the issue much thought. And these were thoughtful people.

Fast-forward nearly 20 years and there’s been no public pressure on Congress to follow other countries’ lead in reining in Big Tech to help truthful news organizations.

Upset about the state of our news ecosystem? Write your Congressperson or Senator and ask them what they’ve done to support the Journalism Competition and Preservation Act. Or stop supporting Google, which a judge recently found has been lowering the quality of its products because it can. But don’t complain about news orgs putting up paywalls to survive. No shit, propaganda and bullshit are cheap.

Yavin4

(36,488 posts)
35. Bunk. They can make their online editions free with ads.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 10:35 PM
Nov 12

And still make a profit. They can just run ads before and during each story like YouTube and Spotify do with their content. Advertisers would pay dearly to put ads in front of their readers.

Paywalls are a cop out.

LauraInLA

(1,309 posts)
40. YouTube and Spotify don't have to spend the kind of money to get content that the online newspapers do.
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 02:46 AM
Nov 13

So YouTube/Spotify etc. can get by with the amount of ad revenue they generate. The newspapers absolutely CANNOT, because they have to spend a lot more money on content. In addition, now advertisers do not need to pay the premium to place ads in the online NYTimes, etc. — they can target that same audience on YouTube (as per my techie husband who spent a good part of his early life career developing the field of online advertising).

Yavin4

(36,488 posts)
55. I'm not saying get rid of the paywall entirely.
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 12:26 PM
Nov 13

I'm saying offer it without the paywall but with ads like Spotify does with Rogan.

LauraInLA

(1,309 posts)
57. Ok. I can't think of a realistic way to place a "must-read-or-view" ad in the middle of an article. It
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 12:48 PM
Nov 13

would probably be end up as three or more ads per ads per article. And how many people would stop reading the article, complain about it, and use archive.ph to finish the article if they really cared to? With Spotify or YouTube, if you want the content, you really have to pay or put up with ads — there’s usually not a real “free” option like archive.ph.

Ad revenue alone is simply not enough to pay for a news organization. When my grandfather was the business manager of a newspaper, ads could cut it because the only alternatives for advertisers were radio and later the beginnings of tv. Now advertisers get the same audience or better by supporting content that much cheaper or even free to produce.

TV news generally doesn’t do that —they have other revenue streams or owners with deep pockets. As a recent example, MSNBC is been spun off with other low-earning properties — the owners aren’t happy with their ad revenue.

PBS/NPR get some government funding, but the great majority of their funding comes from supporter donations and grants from foundations. I think that might be a viable alternative, but we’d need to get Congress to pay something, and then we’d need some foundations to donate. And we’d still need a lot of people to make donations.

Ndp5

(82 posts)
44. They really cannot
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 08:55 AM
Nov 13

Contrast the quality of sites running on ad revenue alone to those that also rely on paywalls and subscription revenue. I am familiar with how both types of news operation work and there just is no comparison in terms of quality.

The fact is, print advertising was lucrative. Online advertising for news publications is cheap, cheap, cheap.

If you don’t like it, again, look to Google, which has a monopoly in search advertising. The judge in the trial underway now may also confirm that they have a monopoly in ad tech, the plumbing of the online ad world, and have been illegally manipulating how ad rates are set for everyone online.

Read the behind-the-scenes account from content creators trying to engage with Google that someone else posted in this thread. Google is a bad-faith actor that has shafted us all to make a buck. Or three hundred billion of them, to be more precise.

Ndp5

(82 posts)
58. Comparing apples and Cheetos
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 01:01 PM
Nov 13

Murdoch’s NY Post breaks very little news on its own and mostly traffics in aggregation and clickbait. There’s no real substance there.

That said, it is (or was) a free country. If you don’t want to pay for news, don’t. Your taxes support NPR, so until Trump and his cronies go after that, you can get their news without a paywall. But there is no way for newspapers of the caliber of the NYT to drop their paywalls without drastically cutting back their newsgathering operations.

Personally, I will continue to support a handful of newspapers. Not as many as I’d like to read, but until better group subscription options evolve, it’s the best I can do.

The vast majority of local news reporters are hardworking true believers who could make more money in PR but choose to stick it out trying to inform their communities. They don’t deserve the abuse that’s slung their way because people confuse them with rich pundits in Washington. I am happy to contribute modest amounts as long as I can.

LauraInLA

(1,309 posts)
62. Yep. I was just reading about Baumol's cost disease:
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 03:49 PM
Nov 13

This economic problem of quality news production — where the really good stuff only gets more expensive because technology can’t make it more efficient — is called Baumol’s cost disease. It’s the same reason your local symphony orchestra, if you still have one, is reliant on philanthropy, corporate sponsorships, or hiking ticket prices for an inevitably more elite audience whose own wealth has been increasing from productivity increases in other parts of the economy. For journalists, when your job is to bring the facts to the biggest audience possible — when we’re already trying to climb out of a hole of historically serving affluent/whiter audiences — this dynamic is toxic. Baumol’s cost disease also the same principle why shifting newsrooms to be nonprofit rather than for-profit is not going to fix the underlying economic issues making quality journalism harder to fund.

From https://mattdpearce.substack.com/p/journalisms-fight-for-survival-in

LauraInLA

(1,309 posts)
61. Related to our discussion: "Journalism's fight for survival in a postliterate democracy"
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 03:47 PM
Nov 13

“The work of obtaining facts has a major economic disadvantage against the production of bullshit, and it’s only getting worse. I’m a pro-labor person, so I often think about the problems of our journalism through a lens of how we do our work, why it’s done, and who’s paying for it. After many years of watching my fellow journalists suffer at legacy newspapers, digital startups, big commercial newsrooms, small nonprofit outlets and public media all alike, here’s what I learned the hard way: America’s marketplace of ideas has a competition problem. The biggest story about media and the internet is that new technology — AI, social media, smartphones, etc. — keeps driving down the cost of producing bullshit while the cost of obtaining quality information only goes up. It’s getting more and more expensive to produce the good stuff, and the good stuff has to compete against more and more trash once it’s out on the market.”


https://mattdpearce.substack.com/p/journalisms-fight-for-survival-in

jfz9580m

(15,523 posts)
43. I don't use Google if I can help it
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 05:00 AM
Nov 13

FWIW
https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/tech/google-creators-event.html

I recently attended a funeral. It was called the Google Web Creator Conversation Event and took place on October 29, 2024, at Google headquarters in Mountain View, California.

Google invited some of the most vocal independent site owners who’ve been shadowbanned by their brutal updates of the last two years, and 20 of them came to pay their respects. We had no idea what the purpose of our visit was going in, but we knew by the time we left.

Google has never done anything like it before. After this account, they likely never will again.

Danny Sullivan hosted the event. He may be the most knowledgeable and helpful person still left at Google, though he has no real power to effect change.

The day before, he led the group on a tour of Google’s biggest office during the busiest part of weekday work hours and seemed slightly embarrassed that at no point during the tour was anyone there. The building was empty, a shell designed as a hub of activity, drained of people willing to engage in being active.

——————————————————————————
The idea that this might be a funeral, was put forward as a half-joke by one of the shadowbanned attendees during our first Q&A session, in which we asked questions and got no answers. Her funeral joke should have been funny. Only the Googlers laughed.

Most of these site owners seemed certain the funeral they were attending, was their own.
—————————————————————————
Google Sucks Us Dry And Throws Away The Husk
We spent the morning politely answering questions from Google, questions designed to help Google improve its search engine, questions that in no way benefited any of the shadowbanned attendees. After, we were given a chance (we thought) to get something useful out of the trip. We split into small breakout groups divided up by category.

We few Entertainment site owners rearranged ourselves into a corner semi-circle, and sat drinking mint lemon water from cups made of recycled Kale. We were joined by four Googlers, who began pumping us for information.

During this small group discussion, I and others tried to get our Googlers to address the biggest problem facing our industry: Google giving big brands special treatment. Each time a site owner brought up the topic, we were quickly steered in another direction.

Undeterred, we then asked the only question that mattered: Why has Google shadowbanned our sites? Google’s Chief Search Scientist answered this question using a strategy based around gaslighting and said they hadn’t. Google doesn’t ever derank an entire site, only individual pages, he said. There is no site-wide classifier. He insisted it is only done at the page level.

Many of the shadowbanned site owners attempted to politely push back and point out that the reason all 20 of us were there was specifically because our entire site was deranked from Google in a single night.

He continued insisting this didn’t happen and then looked confused that anyone would disagree with him.

When asked what was wrong with our sites, as if we were jilted lovers in an abusive relationship being kicked to the curb, one Googler actually said “it’s not you it’s me”.

Finally, someone bluntly asked, since nothing is wrong with our sites, how do we recover?

Google’s elderly Chief Search Scientist answered, without an ounce of pity or concern, that there would be updates but he didn’t know when they’d happen or what they’d do. Further questions on the subject were met with indifference as if he didn’t understand why we cared.

He’d gotten the information he wanted. The conference was over. I don’t think he even said thanks.

Instead, Google’s wise wizard of search science wrapped things up with a self-congratulatory speech about what a great job we were doing at helping Google deliver better search results to his users.

Search results without any of us in them.

It was then I realized this wasn’t our funeral, it was Google’s.


Montauk6

(8,707 posts)
31. They're all over YouTube
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 05:33 PM
Nov 12

I notice this because I don't log into YT when I'm posting to the Music Appreciation (for fear that my links while logged in won't be accessible to someone without an account): it's like I get welcomed by a lot of right-wing suggestions off the bat.

Conservatives understand that deploying their improperganda is a major investment, one that may not even be profitable on the balance sheet but worth every dime to destroy as many brain cells as possible.

If only we had overzealous billionaires willing to part with that kind of cash to disseminate THE TRUTH. (And, sorry/not sorry, THE TRUTH has a notoriously liberal bias)

Ndp5

(82 posts)
45. Buffett tried to save local news but couldn't fix the ad biz
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 09:02 AM
Nov 13

Haha, that last line is from Colbert’s WHCA speech, no? “Now I know some of you are going to say, I did look that up, and that’s not true. That’s because you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut.”

ItsjustMe

(11,730 posts)
32. Everything I know about Trump did not come from conservative media
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 05:57 PM
Nov 12

It all came from liberal media.
Trump, Trump, Trump, 24 hours a day. They gave Trump unlimited facetime.


Hotler

(12,255 posts)
33. 54% of Americans are literate to just below a sixth grade level. NYT written at too high of a grade level for most.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:01 PM
Nov 12

When the words get hard they give up.

RainCaster

(11,578 posts)
49. I find lots of competent news in other countries
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 10:21 AM
Nov 13

Their view of us is one we must look at and take to heart. I pay for subscriptions to several, but most I do not. I read about events that we never hear about in our press. I see a selection of news stories that shows a very different world view. And then there are the editorials- it can be educating to read these viewpoints.

Josiesdad

(50 posts)
59. Possible solution...
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 01:15 PM
Nov 13

Actually, our constitution anticipated a need for the people to be able to communicate with each other in a free and low friction format. To this end, our founders created a federally protected postal system.

If the second amendment can be construed so that it recognizes assault weapons which are beyond the wildest imagination of our founders, why can't the concept of the federally protected postal system be expanded to cover internet communications? Mail fraud has been proven to be a pretty good deterrent against people lying to you to make a gain.

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