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Cattledog

(6,371 posts)
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 05:58 PM Nov 12

Liz Cheney Was an Electoral Fiasco for Kamala Harris

The Cheney strategy was an abject failure that added few if any votes to the Democratic total, alienated voters, and stole precious time from an agonizingly short campaign schedule.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/liz-cheney-electoral-fiasco-kamala-harris/

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Liz Cheney Was an Electoral Fiasco for Kamala Harris (Original Post) Cattledog Nov 12 OP
perhaps an overbalance on that issue as well as too much on trump being a whack job which was already known nt msongs Nov 12 #1
totally disagree nt spooky3 Nov 12 #2
At this point they're just making shit up. live love laugh Nov 12 #26
They've been making shit up since the golden escalator. Initech Nov 12 #34
agreed 100% WarGamer Nov 12 #3
How do you stand being so. damned. right?? dpibel Nov 12 #37
That's a bit harsh. I don't think it helped but I don't think it alienated too many voters. Self Esteem Nov 12 #4
. Scrivener7 Nov 12 #5
As Lyndon Johnson said, cloudbase Nov 12 #6
I doubt Liz Cheney had anything to do with our loss. Elessar Zappa Nov 12 #7
I don't even like Liz Cheney but I admire her courage and appreciate her fighting for the Constitution. Jit423 Nov 12 #21
100% BlueTsunami2018 Nov 12 #8
I don't even understand. The mission was so simple. TheKentuckian Nov 12 #9
I found a few things about her campaign alienating The Wandering Harper Nov 12 #10
Nothing Harris' campaign did outweighed a goddamn thing that Orange Bastard said and did. SoFlaBro Nov 12 #15
it is possible to hold two thoughts at once The Wandering Harper Nov 12 #20
Just curious ClimateHawk Nov 12 #28
thank you for asking. It was mostly the convention that turned me off The Wandering Harper Nov 12 #31
Fair enough ClimateHawk Nov 13 #39
Right? I was like "wtff were they thinking with Oprah?" The Wandering Harper Nov 13 #42
first thing that comes to mind about the post-convention campaign The Wandering Harper Nov 12 #32
I think it was a waste of precious time appearing with Cheney Raven123 Nov 12 #11
Who fucking cares? Vote for Democrats. TheKentuckian Nov 12 #14
What a fucking joke. How the fuck do you lose "party first" people JI7 Nov 12 #17
Maybe I wasn't clear Raven123 Nov 12 #23
Guess we're at the granular stage GenThePerservering Nov 12 #12
Meh. I don't think there is good data to support such hyperbole. At some point the finger-pointing will become so hlthe2b Nov 12 #13
White women was one group where Harris did not lose support from previous elections JI7 Nov 12 #16
Not compared to Biden, but Harris lost some support spooky3 Nov 13 #44
I was guilty of giving her more credibility with Republican voters than she showed. kentuck Nov 12 #18
Why did Tester lose in Montana ? The nation is another grift JI7 Nov 12 #19
If that's true, that reaction to Cheney is as stupid as supporting Trump hawkeye21 Nov 12 #22
I thought it was stupid alarimer Nov 12 #24
She supported Allred and see what good that did grobertj Nov 12 #25
No: this is entirely on the voters who saw Trump as a Savior figure (saving them from the responsibility of decency) /nt artemisia1 Nov 12 #27
Totally agree nt Raine Nov 12 #29
Identify Politics fail. Republican women didn't cross over for Harris because of Liz Cheney. jalan48 Nov 12 #30
Didn't have a thing to do with the outcome. BannonsLiver Nov 12 #33
Liz had obnoxiousdrunk Nov 12 #35
I cringed all the way through it. But I thought... tman Nov 12 #36
For decades now, pundits on the TV have scolded Democrats to reach out to Republicans. Yavin4 Nov 12 #38
A little was ok just to thank her mvd Nov 13 #40
Recommended. H2O Man Nov 13 #41
Not wrong. Not right. IMO. notroot Nov 13 #43
Pfffft. Wingus Dingus Nov 13 #45
Oh, has The Nation backed off their anti-NATO, pro Russian "peace" stance yet? mathematic Nov 13 #46

msongs

(70,275 posts)
1. perhaps an overbalance on that issue as well as too much on trump being a whack job which was already known nt
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:00 PM
Nov 12

cloudbase

(5,795 posts)
6. As Lyndon Johnson said,
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:07 PM
Nov 12

“Better to have your enemies inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.”

Jit423

(429 posts)
21. I don't even like Liz Cheney but I admire her courage and appreciate her fighting for the Constitution.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:45 PM
Nov 12

She did more than many of us did for this election.

BlueTsunami2018

(4,071 posts)
8. 100%
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:09 PM
Nov 12

We should have said “Thanks and all but fuck off Dick Cheney, you war criminal asshole!”

These people are not our friends. They never were, they never will be.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
9. I don't even understand. The mission was so simple.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:12 PM
Nov 12

Vote Harris.

Motherfuckers are so far beyond fucking stupid, that light will take a billion years to reach whatever retrograde location of idiocy they reside in.

10. I found a few things about her campaign alienating
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:14 PM
Nov 12

but it seemed pointless and/or divisive to bring up so close to the election

20. it is possible to hold two thoughts at once
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:44 PM
Nov 12

Prior to the convention I was enthused AF.
I found the convention, and her campaign going forward
alienating and a little disturbing.
But still I filled her bubble

ClimateHawk

(344 posts)
28. Just curious
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 08:39 PM
Nov 12

What did you find alienating and disturbing about Kamala's campaign after the convention?

31. thank you for asking. It was mostly the convention that turned me off
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 09:00 PM
Nov 12

I didn't follow her campaign as closely after the convention as I did before.
I don't remember his exact words but the way the billionaire governor introduced himself,
and the enthusiasm of the cheering in response, turned my stomach.
As a poor person who's had a visceral fear of cops all their life
it was not reassuring to see a uniformed police officer speak at the convention.
Oprah, another billionaire.
The convention overall was glitz and hype to me

42. Right? I was like "wtff were they thinking with Oprah?"
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 01:13 AM
Nov 13

after she spotlighted a guy who went tried to erode Democratic influence in senate

32. first thing that comes to mind about the post-convention campaign
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 09:02 PM
Nov 12

I wondered if support from disgusted republicans would leave her feeling some kind of obligation to entertain some of their policies

Raven123

(6,154 posts)
11. I think it was a waste of precious time appearing with Cheney
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:18 PM
Nov 12

Infuriated those party-first people. I had no problem with her appearing at the convention, but it should have ended there. The “permission structure” stuff was nonsense. The voting booth is private. No one needed permission to vote their conscience and appearing with Liz didn’t endow anyone with that feature.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
14. Who fucking cares? Vote for Democrats.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:33 PM
Nov 12

Chump isn't the only narcissistic player character minded person.

Vanity over country and over people, real people with a doubleplusgood portion of weapons grade stupidity.

JI7

(90,890 posts)
17. What a fucking joke. How the fuck do you lose "party first" people
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:42 PM
Nov 12

because she campaigned with liz Cheney. How the fuck are they party first ?

Raven123

(6,154 posts)
23. Maybe I wasn't clear
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:56 PM
Nov 12

I think some ( a lot of) GOPers are party-first. Campaigning with Cheney wasn’t going to convince them to vote for Harris

hlthe2b

(106,765 posts)
13. Meh. I don't think there is good data to support such hyperbole. At some point the finger-pointing will become so
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:25 PM
Nov 12

agressive that some are going to lose their fingers.

JI7

(90,890 posts)
16. White women was one group where Harris did not lose support from previous elections
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:39 PM
Nov 12

unless you are saying she lost latino men becsuse of Liz Cheney.

spooky3

(36,415 posts)
44. Not compared to Biden, but Harris lost some support
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 10:41 AM
Nov 13

Compared to Clinton (add usual caveat about this year’s exit polls). The Pew validated voter studies re: 2016 and 2020 are better than exit polls, but they won’t be completed for 2024 for at least another year.

kentuck

(112,957 posts)
18. I was guilty of giving her more credibility with Republican voters than she showed.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:43 PM
Nov 12

I thought she might actually make the difference in the race. But Republicans mostly ignored her and voted for the convicted felon.

hawkeye21

(284 posts)
22. If that's true, that reaction to Cheney is as stupid as supporting Trump
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 06:48 PM
Nov 12

When the opposition joins your side, that's always a good thing . . . except, apparently, some people think it isn't. But why not?

Having lifetime conservatives, leaders of the GOP, publicly supporting the Democrats because the Dems are honest and decent while the MAGAs are depraved and dicatatorial is bad? That's a crazy response. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a lunatic too. IMHO, of course.

alarimer

(16,644 posts)
24. I thought it was stupid
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 07:44 PM
Nov 12

Nobody likes any of the Cheneys. Most registered R's just held their noses and voted for Trump anyway.

artemisia1

(799 posts)
27. No: this is entirely on the voters who saw Trump as a Savior figure (saving them from the responsibility of decency) /nt
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 07:52 PM
Nov 12

jalan48

(14,515 posts)
30. Identify Politics fail. Republican women didn't cross over for Harris because of Liz Cheney.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 08:54 PM
Nov 12

How long will we continue with these failed political strategies?

tman

(1,140 posts)
36. I cringed all the way through it. But I thought...
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 09:28 PM
Nov 12

maybe the campaign know something I don't know.

Yavin4

(36,613 posts)
38. For decades now, pundits on the TV have scolded Democrats to reach out to Republicans.
Tue Nov 12, 2024, 09:39 PM
Nov 12

She did, and this is the end result.

mvd

(65,530 posts)
40. A little was ok just to thank her
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 12:16 AM
Nov 13

But not that much time was needed IMO. Our base should be the bigger focus.

H2O Man

(75,779 posts)
41. Recommended.
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 12:26 AM
Nov 13

I understood having Liz on stage. I disagree with her on everything policy-wise, but she did a good job on the J6C. I found it far, far more offensive to have that war criminal Dick Cheney on stage. A lot of people I know were unhappy with that. I mean, where do you stop? If Idi Amin was above soil and endorsed the Democrat, would that be a good thing?

 

notroot

(267 posts)
43. Not wrong. Not right. IMO.
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 04:21 AM
Nov 13

The Democratic and Republican Parties are both on a knife's edge.

Democrats could win on policy if voting was mandatory, like Australia.

But, it's not. Hence, Republicans win, usually without winning the popular vote.

This time, they DID win the popular vote, and that tells us something.

It tells us that the majority of Americans are garbage people -- sexist and racist scum, undeserving of our respect.

Which means we're in deep trouble. We need to focus on social change, and not political change, if we ever hope to defeat the lying, cheating scum in the Republican Party.

Political change follows social change, not the other way around.

Republicans grokked this, where we failed to. They changed society, and won politics in the long-run.

If we want to win elections, we have to focus on changing hearts and minds.

mathematic

(1,524 posts)
46. Oh, has The Nation backed off their anti-NATO, pro Russian "peace" stance yet?
Wed Nov 13, 2024, 11:24 AM
Nov 13

The publication is manifestly bad at explaining the way the world is and articulating a vision consistent with the values of America.

So don't bother to take this ticky-tack criticism of attributing Harris' loss to campaign appearances with Cheney in the midwest seriously. They even set up some beautiful strawmen to knock down:
1) The strategy was to win conservatives and republicans (it was to win moderates and independents, which did happen btw)
2) The strategy was to de-emphasized campaigning with "working class" figures (Sanders and Fain did many campaign stops)

The truth is that the Democrats have always tried to run "big tent" campaigns. It's what you do when you believe your polices are in the best interest of everybody. The Nation wants to make the tent smaller. They want it so small they can capture it. They want to be the leftist version of the Tea Party that captured the Republicans and birthed MAGA.

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