General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEveryone just chill.
The Trump administration is NOT going to be deporting millions of people, illegal or not. Think about it. How many thousands of busses would be needed? How many bus drivers? And assuming those being deported will helpfully go to the Place of Deportation and quietly board those busses, it will take many, many months, nay years.
Same with a lot of the nonsense Trump and those around him are saying. Cut Social Security and Medicare? I guess not a single Republican has an elderly parent who relies on those things.
poli-junkie
(1,157 posts)pat_k
(10,883 posts)...is going to be far more destructive than any legislative horror or overt executive action.
Just peruse the list of agencies to get an inkling of the far reaching consequences:
https://www.usa.gov/agency-index
The damage will not be immediately seen or felt by the nation as a whole.
And it will not spark the kind opposition that we will see to overt action through the legislative branch or via executive order. But without a functioning executive branch to execute and enforce, law matters little.
But somehow, we must find ways to convey the message about the devastating effects of crippling these agencies. It goes so far beyond worries about social security and other safety nets.
Perhaps this is finally our opportunity to expose, for once and all, the BIG BIG BIG lie that "Government" is "the problem."
Get Civil Servants out there talking. They are the unsung heroes and need to be heard. Our government is about hard working people doing jobs critical to all of us. Find ways to demand that CNN and FOX actually talk about the consequences. Find the things that are going to shit that they take for granted.
If the decimation is not exposed and opposed, the extent to which the welfare of individuals and businesses, large and small, rely on the effective functioning of executive agencies and the public resources managed will start to become increasingly clear. My completely uninformed guess? Within 18 months. There will be 'inexplicable" crashes in the stock market. There will be a sharp uptick in deaths as our food supply is tainted without intervention. Bizarre and unpredictable effects of massive insider trading will manifest. Just peruse that list and consider what the consequences of purging the people with experience and talent from the various agencies could be.
FOX News and right wing noise machine has demonized "Government" as the problem. They have no clue the extent to which the collective functioning of the massive executive branch civil service keeps their pockets lined and ensures so many things the nation simply takes for granted.
I see this as a possible opportunity for the polity to get clear about our collective reliance the public resources that make up our government.
Elessar Zappa
(16,077 posts)But anythings possible with these clowns.
LeftInTX
(30,594 posts)bdamomma
(66,720 posts)guardrails.
magicarpet
(16,955 posts)..... for the elderly. The next generation is going to have to pick up the tab for parents and grandparents.
40 and 50 year olds are not going to be too happy about that cost being dumped in their laps.
beaglelover
(4,111 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(24,097 posts)GusBob
(7,603 posts)Its already been discussed
Hence the loyalty pledge/purge
The armed forces can handle the logistics
And if you can't see the fascism coming at this point, you are willfully blind.
The *only* reason to do a pre-emptive purge of the military is to remove oofficers who will remain loyal to the Constitution. They are an obstacle to be pre-emptively eliminated.
MDN
Macrophylla
(150 posts)It's doomsday porn.
multigraincracker
(34,324 posts)Isaac Newton, "to every action there is always opposed an equal reaction".
The Madcap
(574 posts)After Stalingrad, the Russians poured it on Germany ruthlessly in revenge. That's the danger MAGA will face if it goes too far.
multigraincracker
(34,324 posts)Then they were the first to get sent to the Russian Front.
choie
(4,703 posts)Anybody who can do that, can do anything.
Joe_Gadway
(49 posts)Nigrum Cattus
(228 posts)Yes, he can do those things. Mussolini & Hitler were restrained until
they had control of the military, look it up. Search "night of the long knifes"
Jit423
(429 posts)Lots of footage and live video of the Nuremberg trials. Mind blowing. Hitler's inner circle has a clone of everyone of them in the Trump proposed administration.
The Madcap
(574 posts)That I have seen is War Against Himanity on YouTube. It is a bunch of episodes done in chronological order. Not just the Holocaust, but Japan, Italy, Russia, etc., in the runup and during WW2. Can't recommend it highly enough if you can carve out an hour a week for several months.
greyl
(22,997 posts)The Wandering Harper
(772 posts)rec'd
Silent Type
(7,325 posts)Its just not necessary to hurt good people.
The Madcap
(574 posts)Them figuring out that a few backhoes and cases of bullets are cheaper than going through the proper process. Abbott would likely allow a few thousand trenches to be dug in West TX.
LiberalLoner
(10,221 posts)ecstatic
(34,515 posts)I was worried about torture camps and slavery. But you're right.. they could resort to just killing folks. That's a terrible thought.
The Madcap
(574 posts)If correct, the cost to deport 10 million people would be $100 billion.
LeftInTX
(30,594 posts)NickB79
(19,662 posts)They're talking about deploying the military and Special Forces along the border.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19709087
They're talking about raiding workplaces.
https://thehill.com/latino/4984064-trump-administration-workplace-raids/
They're talking about de-naturalizing US citizens so they can be deported.
https://theimmigrationhub.org/press/gop-plans-to-turbocharge-trumps-denaturalization-project-threaten-the-nations-core-values/
The US already deported 1.1 million people in 2023 under Biden.
https://usafacts.org/answers/how-many-people-were-deported-from-the-us/country/united-states/
I have zero faith that this administration isn't going full fucking Nazi in it's 4 years.
Im amazed that after all weve seen that people continue to underestimate him. Will they get 10 million? I have no idea. But Id bet the house theyre going to try.
Frank D. Lincoln
(648 posts)That's Trump's real slogan, not Make America Great Again.
And it's full fucking Nazi forever, not just for four years.
Bad times are coming.
edhopper
(35,041 posts)He will put them in camps. I am not "chill".
Nimble_Idea
(2,476 posts)moonscape
(5,405 posts)experts in fields across the board. I cannot imagine the cluster it will be for the next Democratic administration, supposing there again will be such a thing, to try & put a functional govt back together again.
The mind boggles.
ecstatic
(34,515 posts)He's assembling a collection of thugs to implement mass deportation and yes, all the buses and hired thugs will (ironically) boost the economy, at least temporarily.
tenderfoot
(8,879 posts)EleanorR
(2,434 posts)If you need something, like money for the care home of an elderly relative, you must have something to offer. Everything will become transactional. Jesus look at Russia and Hungary. It's the mob on a political level.
Klarkashton
(2,285 posts)Quiet Em
(1,184 posts)where they can just chill.
Diraven
(1,092 posts)Foreign countries aren't going to cooperate with taking back millions of people that left decades ago. So the vast majority of the immigrants they arrest will just be held in detention camps for years. And probably made do perform forced labor for rich American companies.
BlueKota
(3,727 posts)do you not understand? Whose going to stop him? His six flunkies on the SC?
carpetbagger
(4,882 posts)It's not like we're going to need it to protect the world from tyrants any more. Also, it's not like undocumented laborers can just stay at home like it's covid or something. They've got to be on the worksites and in the fields.
As to Social Security and Medicare, the programs get f'd over first, then the cuts happen. I think you're still living in a world where a debt default isn't more than a 50-50 prospect.
When they try to raise the retirement age to 70 and transition Medicare to a premium support program, I can guarantee you it's all going to be thought of by Serious People as quite reasonable when the deficit floats to the sky on the helium of supply-side tax cuts.
J_William_Ryan
(2,264 posts)Correct.
In addition to being logistically impossible, immigrants are entitled to due process of the law; each individual immigrant subject to possible deportation must be afforded a hearing before an immigration judge.
Adjudicating each individual case would take decades.
What will happen is that millions of immigrants undocumented and lawful resident aliens will be subject to unwarranted harassment and intimidation, their lives needlessly disrupted.
dpibel
(3,439 posts)Due process of law?
Have you missed the part about how we don't bother much with that silly stuff anymore?
I do admire your rose-colored optimism.
LiberalLoner
(10,221 posts)soandso
(1,631 posts)said they're going to concentrate on those who have already been ordered out of the US by courts.
LeftInTX
(30,594 posts)Latinos. Including all citizens. That's 65 million people!
People on DU don't even grasp the population if the Latino community!
That's 1/2 the population of Mexico!
Nazis built crematoriums because of all the bodies. Is Trumo gonna have furnaces for 65 million going?
misanthrope
(8,295 posts)The prison industry is licking its chops at possible detention contracts.
applegrove
(123,610 posts)in the nomination race. They've had castes in India for a long time and it didn't go well. These are the types of people Trump is putting into decision making roles. They know nothing about the person on the street in the USA. They are the swamp.
brush
(58,022 posts)and will persuade some other nation to take the " undesirables."
LudwigPastorius
(11,072 posts)IbogaProject
(3,776 posts)The Nazis started with the disabled, the indigent, and labor organizers. They got around to other groups later. Dark times coming rapidly barring an act of God.
2MuchNoise
(6 posts)and I just chilled.
valleyrogue
(1,191 posts)corporations didn't want them here for the cheap labor.
This is why the "immigration issue" is so utterly stupid. It is a deliberate misdirection of where the problem lies.
jgmiller
(449 posts)The problem is not Trump, he really doesn't care if he deports more than a bus load and gets a photo-op. It's the people that he appoints who are the true believers who will do the dirty work with glee.
notroot
(267 posts)Aussie105
(6,467 posts)Your logic is not applicable.
His deplorable minions fully expect him to do what he promised.
They won't care about logistics, they won't care about the labor market imploding, they just want it done.
Ship the illegal non-Americans out now, today!
To them, the vulgarian utterings from Trump are Golden Promises, and they are likely to take matters into their own hands when they get impatient.
Otto_Harper
(775 posts)Not only here, but figures like Michael Popok and Meidas Touch all talk of Courts and laws as though they mean anything.
I do not think that a Writ of Hocus Pocus, having been issued by a Federal judge, will mean diddly squat to these people. And, what will the judge do next, speak harshly to them?
Crunchy Frog
(27,121 posts)He and his allies want to make America into a fascist country, and they may very well succeed. And a lot of really fucked up things happen in fascist countries.
0rganism
(24,752 posts)There was once a European regime that opted for deportation of undesirable outlanders as its plan A. When that failed for several entirely predictable reasons, they went with a backup plan B, a "final solution" as it were. So far, history has taken a dim view of said regime and its policies.
You're vastly understating the chance that Trump implements any particular one of his nutty fiscal policies that spell doom for millions of people, including those that voted for him. First, he's Donald Trump, the once and future president of an information-age superpower. Second, he's Donald Trump, and he doesn't get held accountable for the horrible disasters he causes. Third, he's Donald Fucking Trump, and he'll do this shit for fun just so he can brag about it for his mass-media toadies.
Don't underestimate the power of propaganda, or the pervasiveness of stupidity. All he has to do is go on a Fox News morning show, talk up his amazing plan, call the critics liars, claim no American is ever hurt by his policies, and blammo! 50%+ support. This is the nightmare we're dealing with.
Faux pas
(15,421 posts)having some kind of Trail of Tears March leaving from each state. I also see something like going on for years.
Blue_Tires
(56,730 posts)They're going to start the mass shootings like that El Paso Wal-Mart, that's what... To make things even worse, they'll be fully expecting a pardon from King Donnie after being convicted...