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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJOE, you have total immunity. Use it.
The Supreme Court has said the president has total criminal immunity for any acts he commits in his official role as president.
Right now, Joe Biden is the president. And he took an oath to "... protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America..."
Donald Trump and his fascist entourage are well along the road to destroying the Constitution. And next January 20th, Project 2025 goes into overdrive, and our Constitution and our freedoms are gone.
As of right now, Joe Biden is the only person in the world with the power to put a halt to the destruction of our Constitutional and our way of life. After all, the SCOTUS has in effect said he can do any damn thing he wants to.
(We know that Joe is not going to do a thing to stop America from becoming a hellhole. Nonetheless, he should consider the power he currently holds. Just saying.)
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JustAnotherGen
(33,821 posts)We are on our own here.
John Shaft
(808 posts)No one will save us.
Not Batman, not Dick Tracy.
Not one person of character who has power will stand up to this.
They'd bow down before a litany of Adam West Batman and Chester Gould Dick Tracy villains.
If all of you don't feel betrayed, you should.
It would be perfectly moral for an American President to strike down evil on American soil. For fuck's sake FDR confiscated US citizens WHO DID NOTHING WRONG. This was in violation of the constitution.
They can't fucking violate the motherfucking "piece of goddamn paper" for OUR sake?
JustAnotherGen
(33,821 posts)No will. The most we can hope for is the Maggots can high on their own fentanyl laced supply.
That's all I've got.
Magoo48
(5,537 posts)The grassroots are us. Those leaders in blue state governments will do something if and when they can, but it’s on us. How much do we want this democracy? How much will we sacrifice to have it?
Will we lip service this crisis like we do the climate catastrophe, or will we step up and do what needs be done?
For climate catastrophe I’ve said all along—first world countries will not be inconvenienced. Will we decide that it is also too much of an inconvenience to help save what’s left of our Democracy?
Resist
John Shaft
(808 posts)Don't worry, if you have plenty of money and are healthy, you will be just fine.
thebigidea
(13,321 posts)The COURTS decide. Good God, pleaaaaase read an actual article about the decision and not just the headline. Do you think the current Supremes are going to go along with anything Biden does?
questionseverything
(10,299 posts)
Cyrano
(15,343 posts)
KS Toronado
(19,703 posts)I think the only thing stopping Biden from using his special immunity is a possible civil war TSF would
start if it appeared he wasn't getting the White House, Joe doesn't want any bloodshed here. 
Susan Calvin
(2,153 posts)
up to the pentagon and generals to stop trump.
LymphocyteLover
(6,978 posts)known danger-- an insurrectionist taking over as president-- a core duty???
fierywoman
(8,133 posts)
Fish700
(148 posts)President Biden isn't going to become the first American Tyrant. He believes in the rule of law. We are going to get what we voted for.
LymphocyteLover
(6,978 posts)fascist from taking over
Fish700
(148 posts)Why should Joe work up a sweat. "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken
LymphocyteLover
(6,978 posts)Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)To avoid the peaceful transfer that would not be tyranical?
LymphocyteLover
(6,978 posts)and honestly, I don't think keeping a dangerous traitorous criminal from taking power is tyrranical
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Anything he does to keep Trump from taking office is an authoritarian abuse of power.
After what we saw attempted on 1/6/20, and the reaction to it here I can't quite believe I'm seeing these kinds of things.
live love laugh
(14,555 posts)It would preempt Trump’s inevitable refusal because SCOTUS will side with Republicans of course setting precedent for leaving.
They will feign a national emergency to stop him from leaving. He’s setting up the military now for that.
Response to live love laugh (Reply #4)
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live love laugh
(14,555 posts)Meadowoak
(6,294 posts)JustAnotherGen
(33,821 posts)But I gotta feeling we are going to see a real Weekend at Bernies thing going.
BlueKota
(3,727 posts)successor already in line.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)Biden not only wasn't elected, he wasn't even on the ballot.
There is no precedent to set.
live love laugh
(14,555 posts)
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)He has not a hint of legal standing to stay in office after his term.
live love laugh
(14,555 posts)FirstLight
(14,309 posts)Joe is too old school "statesman" and thnks everything can be worked out by vigorous debate, etc.
Nobody's vicious enough to take on the Cheeto's tyranny, they will all just lay down and take it...Because they dont wanna play dirty like the re-THUGs and Maggats
tritsofme
(18,708 posts)Cyrano
(15,343 posts)tritsofme
(18,708 posts)Orrex
(64,323 posts)If you caught a guy standing on your porch with a can of gasoline and a burning road flare, and he announced his intent to torch your home, how long after the house was in flames would you wait to take action?
tritsofme
(18,708 posts)BiggaThanLife
(2 posts)What ways could their even be a work around that isn't going by the book? Biden is a stand up guy who has the highest respect for the constitution and government. As much as we want to fantasize about an alternative to what's happening, it comes down to surviving the next four years (hopefully not more) and reverting everything that was done during this upcoming presidency. Some of it, we just won't be able to and it's more about acceptance at this point.
Orrex
(64,323 posts)It’s also interesting that you make up an opinion and expect me to defend it as if it were mine.
Not surprising, but interesting.
tritsofme
(18,708 posts)And stage a coup.
peregrinus
(409 posts)It’s like letting the KKK have a place at your table because refusing to do so would mean that you are intolerant. We do not have to tolerate intolerance.
tritsofme
(18,708 posts)harumph
(2,400 posts)The republicans have already made a mockery of the law and broken it. Repeatedly.
You expect people to respect the law who are being existentially threatened by horrible people who themselves have no concern for it?
The law is the people. It's an agreement on behavior and consequences for breaking it. Important as it is for
getting along as a society, in the end, that's all it is. It's not some sacred bullshit from on high.
Response to Cyrano (Reply #16)
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Silent Type
(7,334 posts)and Vance and hide them in his basement.
Biden would then have to convince courts that he did it as an "official" act to protect the country. I don't think even Obama or Biden judges would see it that way, much less trump's appointees.
The immunity ruling really doesn't give anyone much power. It did delay trump's criminal trials, but not much else.
onecaliberal
(36,331 posts)this is making me very very sick.
Srkdqltr
(7,775 posts)
FBaggins
(27,802 posts)When I hear people say there’s no difference between the parties- I didn’t think they meant this
Fish700
(148 posts)robot and Joe Biden is actually Trump masked with alien lasers from Project Nobel Helm or something.
Clouds Passing
(2,716 posts)Response to Clouds Passing (Reply #18)
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canuckledragger
(1,992 posts)The victims? The US citizens.
And that's just one of his uncountable crimes, but one of the most well known.
LymphocyteLover
(6,978 posts)Trump from becoming dictator
Fish700
(148 posts)He can't help it that the electorate decided they wanted Trump.
ScratchCat
(2,470 posts)Joe Biden has to tell America what Donald Trump took to Mar-a-Lago. He has 100% authority as President and he doesn't have to reveal any specifics that would compromise anything or anyone.
For instance, if Trump had some sort of list with "the identities of foreign intelligence assets", simply tell us that. If there was a document about an "European ally's nuclear capabilities", say so and say what country. If it is a letter from Kim Jon, tell us. If its empty jackets that simply say "Classified", tell us. If it was copies of PDB's, tell us. Tell us what documents The National Archives insisted they get back and generally what they were.
If he doesn't do this, at minimum, then all the charges look completely political. Further, Jack Smith needs to be instructed to release a public report detailing all the evidence that was to be used against Trump if they are abandoning the case. Yeh, I know this will piss off Trump to no extent and he will demand vengeance. Too bad. Biden had his chance to detain Trump for espionage last year, and frankly, the fact that Trump has never been interrogated should tell us all something(that he probably didn't take what we were lead to believe he did).
Trueblue1968
(18,258 posts)OMGWTF
(4,480 posts)I smell a rat.
Bonx
(2,235 posts)No idea how it worked, but we know he did something.
SCantiGOP
(14,302 posts)and you have no idea how it worked but you "know" something was done? And you want to use that to overthrow the Constitutional government and overturn an election?
The only difference in that nonsense and what the rioters did on January 6 is which dictator you want to install. Perhaps we can call it BlueAnon due to its remarkable likeness to QAnon.
ffr
(23,135 posts)He could do it to save America from itself, but then the voters will won't be realized. American needs to end to see how much we will have lost because of careless stupidity. A growing economy that's the envy of the world, isn't good enough in our current 30-second memory environment. America has selected the turd sandwich with shards of glass. Our country will be no more come January.
whathehell
(29,874 posts)I think not..You may need that, but I doubt the rest of us would agree.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)Aztecer
(1 post)That some people want to do the very things they accuse the others of doing. Is that wrong?
tritsofme
(18,708 posts)They are jealous they don’t have their own.
BlueTsunami2018
(4,071 posts)We have for decades now, why do anything to stop it at this point?
We just sat back and allowed them to cheat and flaunt the rules while wagging our fingers and doing nothing in return. All because we didn’t want to “be like them”.
What has that gotten us? Nothing short of a full on dictatorship coming in a couple months.
But at least we’re “better” than them.
B.See
(3,823 posts)V850i
(71 posts)And it gives sweeping powers to the incumbent President. In fact the SC took special care to point out that his interaction with the Justice Department about declaring massive fraud in the election or seizing ballot boxes would not be considered illegal in their view. They did say that the President's immunity would be tempered by those he ordered to carry it out in that they are not immune. Kind of a lame argument IMHO, he can just preemptively pardon anyone he orders to carry out illegal activities. I think Sotomayor, Brown and Kagen's dissent was spot on. We are about to be in for the ride of our lives. I think the USA, founded on the idea of the people being in power and Law being Kind (not the King being the Law) and articulated primarily on two documents, Declaration of Independence and the Constitution no longer exists. I hope I am wrong but I think we are going to find out pretty quickly here.
onenote
(44,805 posts)It doesn't give him carte blanche to commit unlawful, unconstitutional acts that don't violate any criminal statute.
You say you've read the decision. I don't know if you're an attorney by training. I hope not.
V850i
(71 posts)I did, and the three remaining moderate justices are in agreement with my understanding of the decision.
onenote
(44,805 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2024, 02:25 PM - Edit history (1)
onenote
(44,805 posts)But there are actions that a president might take that would be unlawful but not violate any criminal statute. And those acts can and will be enjoined by the courts. I've even seen DU posters contend Biden could simply refuse to leave office -- that he could declare that he is still president on January 21. Well, until now the only person I felt was insane enough to think that was Trump. But apparently I was wrong.
StarryNite
(10,910 posts)
yliza
(106 posts)They’re already preparing to prosecute Biden and his whole family. I doubt the SCOTUS will lift a finger to prevent it.
markpkessinger
(8,587 posts)The Supreme Court did indeed rule that a president has complete immunity as regards "official acts," but it left it to the courts to determine, in any given case, what might actually constitute "official acts." And if you think the current Supreme Court is likely to grant Biden the same latitude it might grant to Trump, you haven't been paying attention!
orleans
(35,261 posts)amnesty for the dreamers & undocumented that have not committed crimes, deport eloon, remove the reins from ukraine
and whatever else he can do to slow down the madness of the trump klan
DET
(1,731 posts)That Biden will do something to prevent this catastrophe. He doesn’t want to, but he knows what’s at stake. We’ve essentially been attacked by a foreign country, and they’re bragging about it. Whether it meets the textbook definition of war doesn’t matter at this point. Each day that passes Trump says or does something monumentally stupid and subversive (recess appointments, firing the generals, appointing a Fox News host as Secretary of Defense, appointing Matt Gaetz as Attorney General (!), and on and on). It shouldn’t be long until he confesses to treason (‘Whatcha gonna do about it?’) and Biden is forced to act.
Jinny
(10 posts)But he said "Welcome Back" to Trump today? Why do you think he's going to do anything?
DET
(1,731 posts)You don’t reveal your hand upfront to your opponent - except for Trump, because he’s an idiot. Between Russia bragging about stealing the election and threatening Trump, Trump’s inability to keep a secret, and the increasingly outrageous decisions Trump is making before he’s even installed, I have to think that Biden will do something to save our country. I don’t think he wants his legacy to be ‘he let America burn’. Of course, I could be completely wrong.
Hope22
(3,102 posts)I just need one thing to go right in this complete clusterfuc of a world. The man has paid his debt and in any other man’s world that would be enough. I think he owes it to all of us to show us how this fancy new rule works. Seriously throw us a bone! Oops I forgot he doesn’t need the Supremes to carry that out. OK…
markodochartaigh
(2,221 posts)has legal immunity. But those who carry out his orders would not have immunity.
No one person can stop the change of government.
What is President Biden supposed to do, pile up furniture behind the door to the Oval Office?
Ponietz
(3,322 posts)You swore an oath to protect the country from domestic enemies. Fulfill it.
Tweedy
(1,220 posts)It would be easier to behave like Mr. Trump did after Joe Biden’s election. There is no doubt.
If you believe in our democracy, use the tools we have to save our Union. Do not borrow the poisons of our opponents.
hawkeye21
(284 posts)Here's a snippet for ya:
"Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But . . . it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security . . . The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good . . .
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people . . .
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people . . .
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us . . .
A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
I guess the colonists should have just buckled under and allowed King George III to do whatever the hell he wanted.
Tweedy
(1,220 posts)Do you think the election was fair?
Do you believe in resolving our differences with elections? I do.
Our last election will no doubt cause misery to most of us, if not all of us.
Yet, our system of government, although obviously flawed, is still the best form of government we humans have managed to imagine. If Martin Luther King Jr. could find a way forward under our system in the South, we can too.
You also need to think about how your revolt would occur exactly.
Tweedy
(1,220 posts)Before deciding what it means.
The Supreme Court did not give any president “total immunity.”
Instead, right wing prejudging justice Roberts declared this in the opinion:
“Trump asserts a far broader immunity than the limited one we have recognized ….”
Roberts also correctly noted that the impeachment clause of our constitution did not provide support for absolute immunity. No doubt, Roberts noted this obvious fact to all English literate people with mealy-mouthed language. Specifically, Roberts said the impeachment clause “provides little support for such an immunity.” Truly, that clause provides no support at all.
So, what you are proposing would be struck down by the court. So, Joe Biden could ignore that. Then, Joe Biden could pre-emptively destroy the democracy we love. Which…. I mean what? Why would we want that???
It looks obvious Mr. Trump is going to destroy our military with Stalin-like purges, destroy our department of justice and unfurl all the criminals on our monetary system. This does not even include the plans to make polio smashing again or incarcerate millions of people for petty for prison profit.
This is the outcome an algorithmic driven fourth estate handed us. If we believe in democracy, we need to slug our way through it. Slug our way through because we can vote the jesters right out.
America always does the right thing after exhausting every other possibility Winston Churchill supposedly said.
Well, we are about to exhaust some terrible possibilities. Get ready. Prepare yourself mind, body and soul.
Our right to govern our own dang selves is at stake. We cannot win that fight by pre-emptive dictatorial fiat.
The GOP just flipped off our ancestors and brought along our country for the ride on the back of a bunch of misinformed people who just wanted to watch the show (apparently?).
Now it is time we stand up for our right to self govern and teach the misinformed what it actually means to be an American patriot.
Mr. Trump and company, Johnny come America latelys, sycophants and assorted hangers-on do not understand how our country works.
Remember, America always does the right thing after exhausting every other possibility.
Make it your mantra.
Please stop beseeching Joe Biden to pre-emptively declare we cannot govern ourselves.
Despite recent occurrences, that is a vicious lie.
We can govern ourselves.
Stand up and prove that a people’s Union can endure even this nonsense.
Even this, the United States of America can endure. We will thrive again.
This is not the end of our story, nor the beginning of some kleptocratic apocalypse.
That is just what the thugs-in-waiting want you to believe.
asm128
(238 posts)In the dissent that you linked to:
"Never in the history of our Republic has a President had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former Presidents will be cloaked in such immunity. If the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain, the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop.
With fear for our democracy, I dissent".
Tweedy
(1,220 posts)(Who really should resign quickly)
Yet, a dissent does not a majority opinion make.
Skittles
(160,307 posts)THEY WILL GIVE DONALD FUCKING TRUMP ANYTHING HE FUCKING WANTS
Tweedy
(1,220 posts)The Supreme Court surely helped us land here and apparently with malice a forethought (see Alito, S and his discussion of how all would be peaceful if half the country simply rolled over).
The Supreme Court has spent most of its history protecting the wealthy while hurting the rest of us. No doubt this batch of pre-judging jurists are worse in many ways.
Again, if Martin Luther King, Jr. could find a way forward without tossing our democracy in the toilet, we can too.
bucolic_frolic
(47,604 posts)be extremely disappointed if Biden doesn’t try to save our democracy while he is still in office.
bigtree
(90,287 posts)...I'm going to guess you didn't consider that with the maga majority on the ultimately deciding SC with their shifting decisions to suit Trump, that no Democrat has any reasonable expectations of any immunity from justice.
OhioBack2Blue
(32 posts)...it be Biden, under Marshall law, who would defend:
* the US Constitution,
* the oppressed both here and abroad,
* the rule of law, imperfect as it is
* Democracy, imperfect as it is
* Social Security
* Medicare
* The Affordable Care Act
* Consumer Rights
* The Environment
* Women's right to reproductive health care
* Antitrust
* the press
* the separation of church and state
* and more
This is the very definition of a national emergency.
Seeking Serenity
(3,080 posts)SWBTATTReg
(24,337 posts)feasible, but the thought is interesting.
paulrevere2018
(47 posts)and their own COMPLETE incompetence will keep then from too much of a disaster. Like a plague of locust they will be gone in 4 years and we can replant.
tonekat
(2,052 posts)onenote
(44,805 posts)But nothing he did would have any legal authority because as a matter of constitutional mandate, he won't be president any more.
We really need to work on teaching civics in this country
But I'm not sure if being frog marched out of the Whitehouse by Trump and his Secret Service detail is how he wants to be remembered.
kelly1mm
(5,413 posts)things do not. So it you want President Biden to personally go around arresting people I assume he could do so and not be subject to prosecution. I doubt many government employees would want to go out on that limb ....
Cirsium
(1,158 posts)"It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination."
“Are all the laws but one to go unexecuted, and the Government itself go to pieces lest that one be violated? Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken if the Government should be overthrown when it was believed that disregarding the single law would tend to preserve it?”
"Our popular government has often been called an experiment. Two points in it our people have already settled, the successful establishing and the successful administering of it. One still remains, its successful maintenance against a formidable internal attempt to overthrow it."
"I am a patient man — always willing to forgive on the Christian terms of repentance; and also to give ample time for repentance. Still I must save this government if possible."
"Our common country is in great peril, demanding the loftiest views, and boldest action to bring it speedy relief. Once relieved, its form of government is saved to the world; its beloved history, and cherished memories, are vindicated; and its happy future fully assured, and rendered inconceivably grand."
ElementaryPenguin
(7,850 posts)What's the alternative?
Why wouldn't he? The most powerful man in the world is going to passively sit back and watch this country he dedicated his life to be taken down by a small group of greedy thugs - propped by our chief adversary?
What would you do in Biden shoes?
Seriously.
Cirsium
(1,158 posts)I don't think there is any possibility for a peaceful solution. That ship has sailed. This has been a long time in coming. It didn't happen overnight. I don't expect anyone in the Democratic party leadership to suddenly shift course and take an aggressive stand against the conservatives. Also, I do not expect to see a wave of pressure on them to push them in that direction, judging by most of the commentary here and elsewhere from active and informed Democrats.
ElementaryPenguin
(7,850 posts)I certainly hope a serious alternative plan is being contemplated...
harumph
(2,400 posts)John Shaft
(808 posts)Just the essence of the stink of the traces of a memory of powder.
All the powder is gone.
ecstatic
(34,519 posts)investigate and indict former presidents. By the end of neverary.
Seeking Serenity
(3,080 posts)Gen. Nguyễn Ngọc Loan on Trump at the WH today? In front of the cameras? Cuz that's the vibe I'm sensing.
usonian
(14,616 posts)CIA, FBI and other assets under cover.
Because all are going to Putin post-haste if he doesn't. It really IS national security.
Agree on releasing all findings in ongoing (or not going on) cases.
And give Ukraine a gift or two.
Iggo
(48,532 posts)What crimes do you want him to commit?
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)of Republicans or to start a civil war?
Keep in mind there is no hint of evidence that Biden has a loyalist private death squad.
I'm not overly squeamish about it myself but be honest on what the something you are pleading for is and what the costs are.