My wife's warning to America

[Pototan]

Last edited Wed Nov 13, 2024, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)

My wife was born in the Philippines in 1955. She was in her late teens when Ferdinand Marcos Sr. declared martial law and controlled the country with an iron fist, following the "trigger" event of a Communist rebellion in Mindanao. There were no more elections until the "People Power" revolution in the mid-1980's. Then, in her early 30's she was on the street protesting until Marcos was driven from power.

My wife is currently 69 years old, had lived in the US for over 20 years as a voting US and Filipino citizen, before retiring with me back to the Philippines 2 and a half years ago.

She sees the similarities between the Marcos Sr. early years and the beginning of Trump's second term. What we should fear, according to my wife, is a "trigger" event. real or concocted. That "trigger" event will lead to martial law and the implementation of the "Insurrection Act". The rules of martial law are nearly identical in every country for hundreds of years. The "trigger" event could be an unexpected problem, like a pandemic or a natural disaster. Or demonstrations following a horrific event like the George Floyd murder and the BLM demonstrations. There are many other possible large demonstrations and unrest opportunities, like a Muslim ban or mass deportations.

Once Martial law is declared and implemented, it is very difficult to undo, and it gives an Authoritarian leader unfettered authority. If my wife's warning comes to pass, the irony is not lost on me that in order to escape living under a dictatorship, we moved from the United States to the Philippines.

[MadameButterfly]

1. We're pretty much already at the hard to undo

phases of this. Point to take that agitation might make things worse rather than better. But if we give up free speech in advance, that is a problem too.

[Pototan]

2. That's not the point of her warning

It's that Trump needs to be stopped well before that by Congress. They cannot allow "recess" appointments and not let Trump put people in place in key positions that can facilitate his actions.

It will not be easy, but people should be forewarned to head off Trump's ability to declare martial law. .

[wnylib]

16. The use of a trigger event is a common tactic of dictators.

It's what Hitler used for making himself dictator. The Reichstag fire was his excuse for imposing martial law that did not end until the end of WWII.

I support peaceful resistance, but if the MAGA regime announces martial law, it sounds like a call to civil war to me.

[MadameButterfly]

30. Given that if Trump wants martial law

he'll find or create an excuse, how do we prepare? Should we be buying guns?
Normally I laugh at people who think their guns are going to protect them from perceived government threats because who can prevail over tanks and advanced military equipment and training? However, it bothers me that all of our public figures are at risk, the courts may have no teeth and SCOTUS is on their side. And most of the guns are in the hands of the far right.

[wnylib]

44. I have wondered about that, too.

Having a gun would not stop the military. It might be useful for self protection in a one on one confrontation by a MAGA.

I do not have a gun. have never held or fired a hand gun. I have fired a rifle and a shotgun, but it was 50 years ago. I was a good shooter in target practices -- farsighted with good eye-hand coordination. My husband at the time did a lot of hunting. They were his guns.

[krkaufman]

39. The people *were* forewarned

… yet here we are.

[moondust]

3. Maybe a Reichstag fire.

And blame it on those evil communist, fascist, socialist cat ladies.

[Blue_Tires]

7. I'm thinking another "assassination attempt"...

He got so much mileage out of the first two...

[MuirWoods]

46. Fake assassination attempts ?

I think these events would be pretty hard to fake. How would the second one in particular be faked?

DJT isn’t known for being trustworthy, but these would be hard to be faked and asserting so leads to questioning of our own credibility

[Blue_Tires]

47. Normally I'd agree

But even someone as brain dead as Donnie wouldn't instantly pop up for a photo op right after being shot at...

And they were exploiting the incident in their fundraising emails just THREE hours later... They had t-shirts ready to go 1-2 days later. It doesn't add up.

[wnylib]

20. Something similar is likely.

If that happens, what would our response be? Would we literally fight back with weapons? Go to protests wearing protective gear and carrying weapons to defend ourselves against government troops?

Would blue state governors call on the state's National Guard and citizen volunteers to protect protesters? Could Guard members be trusted to protect people? How many would support the MAGA dictatorship instead?

Or, to avoid violence, would we find ways to adapt to military rule?

These are not idle questions because I fully expect the MAGAs to pull off a trigger event very soon after inauguration day. A shock and awe operation to seize absolute power immediately.

So, we need to think now about how we would respond, how we would cope.

In the case of such an event, communications would be a primary target. Some websites would be closed down. E-mail, phone calls, and texts would be monitored. Some individuals would be denied access to phones. Internet and phone service providers would be taken over by MAGAs. Credit cards and bank debit cards would be monitored.

The reason for cracking down on communications would be to prevent people from organizing a resistance.

[moondust]

22. Ummm...

Yes, plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Military coups seem to usually happen in "third-world" countries without a strong history of democracy and apolitical militaries. I don't know how much of the Pentagon would go along with a dictatorship.

For one thing, I would recommend everyone use a VPN when on the Internet as long as that VPN continues to be considered effective. Different VPNs do get different ratings but I don't know if anybody has cracked any of them.

I haven't given your scenarios much thought yet but probably should start.

[wnylib]

23. True that military coups usually occur in 3rd world countries.

20th century Germany was not a 3rd world country, but it was inexperienced at democracy and unable to hold onto it.

The US is an old, experienced democracy, but look how well the MAGA movement has taken hold among the people. Consider how the majority of Americans rallied around Bush II after 911 and how completely the public and the military supported the invasion of Iraq which had no connection to 911 and had no WMD.

The German military was strong, old, well established, and very conservative. They backed Hitler. The US military is not as old as the German military was, but it is old, well established, and majority conservative. It has a history of political neutrality and also a history of submission to civil authority in obeying the civilian commander in chief. So, how will they respond to orders from Trump as their civilian commander in chief?

Will the military leaders refuse illegal commands by resigning? Then Trump would replace them with his own loyal generals. What will military leaders do when Trump and a MAGA Congress change military policies and laws to make formerly illegal orders legal? Will the military brass consider it their duty to obey the new laws and policies?

Consider how many military personnel now support Trump and MAGA policies. They are mostly people of the lower rank and file. But how many General Mike Flynns are there?

[MadameButterfly]

33. Trump is planning to replace military generals

wiht "loyal" leadership at the outset. No more Marc Millies.

I have wondered how a consciencious soldier would respond to orders to arrest or kill law-abiding citizens for the crime of freedom of speech. Attacking Americans will not appeal to a lot of soldiers. But some percentage will be MAGAs, maybe the majority. So a soldier refusing to obey such orders cannot count on solidarity in the ranks. It puts them at high risk. I wonder if anyone would take the risk. The military is not designed for soldiers to make individual decisions about which orders to obey.

Any rebellion among the military would have to have leadership, and the leadership we are looking for will have been removed by Trump.

I look to the National Guard, where I assume Trump doesn't have the reach to appoint the leadership in every. state. I also assume the National Guard doesn't have as many resources as the military. They will be half MAGA, perhaps, more or less depending on the state. But they won't be likely to have MAGA leadership at least in Blue states.

[wnylib]

41. I live in a blue state, NY.

I think that Governor Hochul would call up the National Guard to protect the people, if she thought that it was necessary and that she could rely on them.

But, the rural areas of NY are deep red. There are some RW extremist militias in the state and some of them are active National Guard members. One militia near Buffalo is called The Watchmen.

Some info on western NY RW extremists in government and their ties to Trump.

https://www.investigativepost.org/2022/05/18/the-rise-of-the-radical-right-in-wny/

[louis-t]

52. His replacement of generals will weaken our military.

This is going to be a real disaster.

[MadameButterfly]

34. I didn'dt know about VPNs but I agree

this is very important and we should all do it well before Trump is sworn in

[Dan]

4. A trigger event can be anything Trump wants it to be...

Somebody spitting on his cheeseburger.

But as long as States control elections - we will vote in 2026 & 2028, unless he puts the military in the States. Maybe, that is why he is creating a loyalty Oath for the military (via his group vexing the military high command).

I think that depending on the Senate or House to control Trump is a waste of time because they are more chicken-shit than chicken-shit.

But if Trump is able to control the military - then all bets are off on whether this nation survives without Civil War.

[Pototan]

6. I don't know about that

martial law is very powerful.

[Dan]

19. Smiling,

With the Cabinet that he is currently forming, and the GOP politicians in the Senate & House combined with his proposed “Reviewing of the General Officers” in the Military; and finally with the Immunity Supreme Court - Who in a position of power will stop him?

The Press - give me a break, they created this monster.

What remains of the guard rails - are the various Blue State Governors.

The MAGA Crowd wants to kill us. They’re too hate filled and stupid to know that killing is a two-way street.

Push come to shove - be prepared.

And, don’t get me started on the Foreign aspects of what is happening - I read somewhere Ukraine is months away from having nuclear weapons. But the good news is that we have the Genius in the White House that knows everything about negotiating a deal.

I think I’m going to have a drink.

[MadameButterfly]

35. We'll need reporters to do investigations

and keep us informed because Congress won't be doing that. And we'll need new media outlets because the major ones that aren't RW will be shut down. We'll be depending on hero reporters willing to risk their lives. In this scenario that won't be sane-washing Trump.

[MadameButterfly]

36. The big if is whether we can keep him out

of the states. Blues states maybe. Depending on whether National Guard can fend off the national military. Depending on whether Blue state governors will have any power to defend. Each governor may require the courage of Zelinsky.

Swing states will depend on who is governor and/or in control of the legislature.

We have pretty much lost all red states and swing states controlled by Republicans. For any election going forward.

And yes, he will use martial law whenever he pleases for whatever reason. It seems that might be a way to get into the necessary states for an election.

We shouldn't wait until all this has happened already to consider civil war. i'm not saying we are equipped to win--I don't see how we are. But we just can't make it easy. And we need to be fighting with more that guns: mostly other things than guns. Hacking their computer systems so they can't coordinate. With-holding services and expertise they've taken for granted that is needed to make things run. The modern version of Lincoln's Blockade. Creating a network of Blue spies within the CIA and FBI and military. We have too much intelligence on our side to have this all to come down to guns.

We shouldn't be kidding ourselves that it will be life as usual. And the longer we sit around hoping, the harder it gets to resist.

[iluvtennis]

5. KnR. n/t

[rubbersole]

8. Like described in Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine"

This treasonous bs is scripted. With unlimited money.

[LittleGirl]

12. Bingo! nt

[hootman]

9. I think this would "trigger" another event.

Once he pushes this bullshit WAY too far like that then I think something is bound to happen.
And thats all I'll say about that.

[MadameButterfly]

37. is this some top secret you are keeping to yourself? nt

[hootman]

38. Not at all. Just imagine the worst thing that could happen to him

I just dont like to toss the word around.
But if he actually goes down the road of taking over the country; and not just passing policies we dont like, but doing things like suggested in the OP, I dont think its a stretch to see it happening
I think Vance is going to try to 25th him after the midterms anyway.

[MadameButterfly]

55. The Base won't stand for the 25th

[hootman]

56. I expect trump to degenerate a lot in the next 2 yrs

Even so, I'd bet the base; or much of it, could be convinced that to FURTHER the "trump agenda" its best to push it with some younger blood. Vance doesnt give a shit about Trump. He answers to the people who fund him.

[roamer65]

10. The United STATES is a large, multiethnic country.

I don’t see it staying together much longer.

It’s more similar to Yugoslavia or the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

[LittleGirl]

11. Thanks for the warning.

I believe her. Give her a hug for me.

Count me in as a member of the resistance.

[Pototan]

14. I just thought it was important

to get the perspective of a person who actually lived through a dictatorship from beginning to end. Especially a dictatorship that began with a free and fair election and needed to be ended fifteen years later with mass public demonstrations and the support of the military.

[LittleGirl]

15. It's appreciated. nt

[ms.pamela]

13. Marcos

From 1967 through 1969 I lived in the Philippines at Clark Air Force Base as a young teenager. I can remember all the shootings that always occurred around election time there. While living in that country I thought it was funny that birth control was illegal but abortion was fine, it was even advertised on billboards at the time. I remember the Philippines as beautiful, but it had a lot of poverty then. I would not mind moving back. My husband served in the Navy during the end of the Vietnam War and while his ship was docked at Subic Bay the crew would do unbelievably; crazy things. He could write a novel about those things alone. The beaches were lovely more beautiful than even Hawaiian ones. The food was delightful and the people warm. There were snakes but I never saw one but I did see plenty of Caribou. Once I went on a picnic on Mt. Pinatubo with a friend's family, Some years later it erupted and covered most of the area where I once lived with ash. During that time I also had my first experience with earthquakes and typhoons, still, I consider my time there great. You both will be safe from all the chaos which I am sure will go down here.

[chia]

17. Please thank your wife for me, and thank you for conveying her warning and her lived experience.

[Pototan]

25. She's the smartest person I know

She speaks 5 languages fluently (Tagalog. Ilonggo, Spanish, Malay and English).

[misanthrope]

18. "Once Martial law is declared and implemented, it is very difficult to undo-"

"–and it gives an Authoritarian leader unfettered authority."

And there you have it.

[hootman]

40. Claus Von Stauffenburg comes to mind...... NT

[Kablooie]

21. That's just how Hitler did it too.

It will be easy for Trump to find a trigger event.
I don’t see any we we can prevent this.
Anything anybody did to stop him could be used as the trigger event itself.

[Hassler]

24. Chump has said he'll be a dictator on day one.

I'm sure they have already schemed it out following Uncle Vlad's advice

[NNadir]

26. The real question is whether American soldiers will fire on its citizens

[yardwork]

28. They have before.

[DesertRain]

32. That is no longer a question for me.

All it takes is a little more "The enemy from within" programming.

[gab13by13]

27. People are going to be murdered,

Better not spend time talking about Democrats changing their message and start talking about survival, talking about how to fight back.

This will be a Pinochet-style regime.

[Bluethroughu]

29. He already said he was going to do this on day one.

[Blues Heron]

31. Sounds like scare mongering BS to me.

[Dan]

42. There was a book called something like 'The Rise and Fall....'

Heavy reading….but good history.

[Blues Heron]

43. yeah I once watched a great movie - it was awesome

you should see it

[Clouds Passing]

45. One of my concerns is that dump will try to usurp office before inauguration day.

[moniss]

48. Also martial law basicaly suspends the courts

and really at the heart of all of this I don't think they plan on complying with any court decisions that go against them.

[grandpamike1]

49. Dictators

All previous, and now dictators have one thing in common, the Military. The only way a Dictator can control is having the Military on his/her side. I am concerned of where The United States Military stands, in that regard. If they support Trump, then there will be, for the first time in US History , in 248 years, we will have a Fascist Dictatorship, and all of the trimmings that come with that. You may disagree with what I have posted, and only time will tell, but IMO, it all hinges on The Military.

P.S. And I wish that Biden would declare Martial Law, and a takeover by the Military, to protect the Constitution and America.

[oldmanlynn]

50. As soon as martial law happens our country will wake up

If that happens then our country will wake up and see the problem and fighting will start in the streets. Americans will not like their freedom take away completely

[CanonRay]

51. One possibility is Trump's own assassination by his own people

Vance get the office, invokes the Insurrection Act. Done. They'd be rid of a big pin in the ass.

[spanone]

53. It's only just begun.

[Betty Boom]

54. This is not news if you know any history at all

The Reichstag fire happened decades before that.

[Pototan]

57. I certainly know my history

I just was relating the experience of a person who lived through a dictatorship, as an adult, from beginning to end.

[Blue_Roses]

58. My mother was a nurse in the Army

during WWII and she was stationed in the Philippines. One of her friends from nursing school was a POW in the Santo Tomas Internment
Camp, after the Japanese took over the island.

My mother wasn't there when they invaded the Philippines, but came a year later by hospital ships.

I never knew all this while I was growing up. She never wanted to talk about it. It wasn't until much later that she told us.

[Emile]

59. Thanks for sharing.