Incident at church that made me want to scream; "I JUST CAN'T ANYMORE"!!!

[maxrandb]

Helping out in the kitchen for our annual bake sale. Young guy, mid-twenties is talking to another member, and is just excited about RFK Jr. being head of HHS.

He says; "he'll get all those preservatives out of our food, and quit with all those vaccines".

I made the comment; "yeah, we'll make polio and whooping cough great again".

He responds; "yes, polio is on the rise because of the vaccine"

Stunned, I said; "did you just say polio is 'on the rise because of the vaccine'"?

He said; "yes, everybody knows that".

I had to walk away because he was making my hair hurt.

How do you counter that?

[Baitball Blogger]

1. This is exactly what we're dealing with.

The Republicans have managed to twist their logic, so they can't get cause and effect straight in their heads.

[Initech]

75. I'm going to shout it from the rooftops if I have to:

A lot of people are going to die because of that fucking monster and the bullshit conspiracy theory quackery that he's peddling. Fuck RFK Jr to the hottest circle of hell.

[womanofthehills]

91. NPR - "How The Oral Polio Vaccine Can Cause Polio"

(This has been a problem in poorer countries where they give live oral vaccine- unlike in US where we get dead vaccine injection. Three different strains of polio..)

From NPR. - (2019 )
“Just last month, the World Health Organization announced that two of three strains of polio had been eradicated. It's been one of the great success stories of modern medicine. The disease, which, of course, can lead to paralysis, has been reduced to just a handful of cases around the world. But now scientists say there's been a troubling setback. One of the vaccines used to prevent polio has actually been causing some people to get polio.” https://www.npr.org/2019/11/16/780068006/how-the-oral-polio-vaccine-can-cause-polio.”


From Nature medical journal -
“When smallpox was declared eradicated in 1980, there were hopes that poliovirus might soon be next. As a result of an eradication campaign that began in 1988, two of the virus’s three subtypes have since been eradicated and the third has been cornered. In the past 12 months, just 21 cases of wild polio were reported in children across Afghanistan, Pakistan and Mozambique.
“But cases of another type of polio are worryingly high. Over the past year, there have been 665 cases of vaccine-derived polio across 23 countries. Vaccine-derived polio occurs when the attenuated poliovirus used to make oral vaccines regains its virulence.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01953-7

[ForgedCrank]

2. Ok, you got

me cracking up with the hair thing.
But yea, when faced with stupid in real life, all you can really do is ignore it like you did. I don't think I'll ever really understand the Alex Jones types.

[CatWoman]

3. we are completely surrounded by fucking idiots

[Skittles]

8. it's scary

seriously, these folk have access to the same information we do but choose to live in utter fucking ignorance - no wonder they are so easily manipulated

[mahina]

29. they kinda don't, though. I forget which journalist it was that noticed the vast right wing media environment, all of

Which is free, but if you want to read the New York Times of the Washington Post, you have to pay and give your info.

[Skittles]

36. I don't subscribe to any news outlets

and I manage to keep updated

[Vdizzle]

30. Remember, 100 is the median I.Q.

There are just as many below 100 as there are above 100. Scary as hell.

[Richard D]

62. And 100 . . .

. . . isn't all that great.

[Trueblue1968]

52. You call the man a LIAR in a really loud loud voice !!!! And tell him he is an ignorant SOB

[dickthegrouch]

65. But but but eating from the tree of knowledge is BAD!

So is being clothed, which is how skydaddy found out about the eating.

So don’t be too hard on him!

[Trueblue1968]

68. False. These people are not christians !!! They are filled with hate.

[dickthegrouch]

70. I was indirectly suggesting having some fun

With the rebuttal to the original idiotic statement
But apparently it was too devious

[Maru Kitteh]

89. If they say they are Christians, and think they are Christians, they are Christians.

That is the definition of any religious adherence - self-declaration. They might suck, but many do. They’re not alone. Those nutbars that worship with AK-47’s are Christians too, for the same reason.

[CatWoman]

86. what are you going on about?

[ClimateHawk]

4. So RFK wants to get rid of preservatives in food?

That’s fine but you got to have regulations to make that happen. Trump wants to cut regulations across the board. So that preservative thing just isn’t going to happen. MAGA just doesn’t get it.

[misanthrope]

39. What he and others don't realize is how that would escalate food costs

due to spoilage. The corporations who make and sell those foods would have costs shoot through the roof from product loss, and they would pass that monetary difference on to consumers.

Do you think those huge businesses are going to just sit by and let a lunatic like Brain Worm Bobby deflate their profits?

[UpInArms]

47. It will also reduce choices on the shelves of every store

As it returns food to basic food groups … there would be a lack of prepared foods … more people would have to prepare meals from “scratch” ( a skill not shared by everyone)

[Chellee]

90. Not to mention that everyone will need to be working multiple jobs

just to stay ahead of the tariff Trumpflation, so who's going to have time to cook from scratch?

[travelingthrulife]

59. They live on wishes and unicorn dust.

Completely untethered from reality.

[womanofthehills]

92. His big food question is - why do the same brand name foods

In Europe have way less chemicals than ours? Fruit Loops was a good example.

Fruit Loops USA

INGREDIENTS: Corn Flour Blend (Whole Grain Yellow Corn Flour, Degerminated Yellow Corn Flour), Sugar, Wheat Flour, Whole Grain Oat Flour, Modified Food Starch, Contains 2% or Less of Vegetable Oil (Hydrogenated Coconut, Soybean and/or Cottonseed), Oat Fiber, Maltodextrin, Salt, Soluble Corn Fiber, Natural Flavor, Red 40, Yellow 5, Blue 1, Yellow 6, BHT, Vitamins and Minerals: Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid),
Reduced Iron, Niacinamide, Vitamin B6
(Pyridoxine Hydrochloride), Vitamin B2
(Riboflavin), Vitamin B1 (Thiamin Hydrochloride),
Folic Acid, Vitamin D3, Vitamin B12.

Fruit Loops - Germany

INGREDIENTS: Cereal Flours (Wheat, Oats, Corn), Sugar, Glucose Syrup, Salt, Fruit and Vegetable Concentrates (Carrots, Cherries, Radishes), Natural Citrus Flavor With Other
Natural Flavors, Coloring (Carotene).

Plus the US uses pesticides on our food that are banned in Europe - like atrazine that lowers estrogen and testosterone in humans and can cause miscarriages. Europe banned atrazine in 2004. - we use tons of it on our food. Some of our grains and all our sugar crop that’s not organic are sprayed with glyphosate just before harvest so it all dies at same time & is easier to harvest.

[Skittles]

5. the ignorance of these people is staggering

not hard to see why they see value in a despicable POS like Trump

[sop]

82. But you can't tell these people they're ignorant, it would just upset them and drive them deeper into ignorance.

[Skittles]

85. seeing value in that despicable POS

it cannot much worse than THAT

[RockRaven]

6. This is one of those very annoying things where a true factoid is totally warped

into a very sticky bullshit talking point (if I am guessing correctly about his source's babble, i.e. what he meant).

An oral polio vaccine can cause, rarely and related to population-specific circumstances, new polio cases as a second order effect. The injected vaccine currently used in the US absolutely does not. There are numerous reasons why there are different types of vaccines used in different places, and lemme just say "it's complicated" meaning these such dumbasses know nothing about it.

If everyone on Earth got vaccinated for polio, any future polio vaccine would cause ZERO polio cases going forward (assuming competent immune systems all around, obviously such an absolute is counterfactual). It is because too many people in certain regions are not vaccinated that one kind of polio vaccine can but doesn't necessarily cause polio cases in people other than the ones being vaccinated.

This sort of bad faith bullshit -- leaning on a whisper of a whisper of a true thing -- being spread is so very, very annoying.

[yardwork]

56. This what the Republicans always do.

[biophile]

80. You are correct

In India, many cases of polio are from the vaccine they use there -(as you note, not the one we use here). Epidemiologists can determine if a case is from the vaccine derived strain or wild polio. You can support vaccination and still recognize that there are issues with vaccines sometimes.

[sakabatou]

7. "How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again."

-Mark Twain

You can't fix stupid, maxrandb.

[GoCubsGo]

9. You counter by saying,

"Oh look! Another one who failed Biology class." Then, make them explain how vaccines cause a rise in disease. Although, I suspect his answer would make your head explode even quicker. The stupid. It burns. Yep. We're living in The Idiocracy.

[JanMichael]

10. I hope he gets whooping cough. Or maybe measles.

[Hekate]

20. Based on my experience, a good case of RSV would mimic whooping cough...

Tho if I understand correctly, whooping cough settles its toxins deep, deep in the lungs, causing coughing spasms into the future that can double you over. The RSV I had finally cleared, for which I was grateful.

Whooping cough itself has been on the rise for quite a few years, sending babies to the hospital when it passes thru communities. Just wait.

[littlemissmartypants]

21. Both simultaneously. That's my vote. 🪄🤞

[haele]

67. Measles and Chicken pox is worse the older you get...

Both can cause Heart and Lung problems, Encephalitis, Blindness, Deafness, Sterility....the older you are when you get it, the greater chance of being left damaged with one of these issues when you recover...

Haele

[mercuryblues]

74. I'm hoping for mumps

[mercuryblues]

76. I'm hoping for mumps

[womanofthehills]

94. Adults rarely get whooping cough

It’s mostly kids under 9 yrs old and immune compromised seniors.

A healthy adult catching whooping is rare & if they catch it - it’s usually very mild.

Dying from whooping cough is mostly in babies under two months - but that’s also pretty rare.

Many think there needs to be improvement in the Pertussis vaccine as it only protects for one to three yrs.

[Yavin4]

11. Ask them if they know where the band, Iron Lung, got it's name. n/t

[JHB]

12. Well, it may not be appropriate for a church kitchen, but...

"No! Just because your circle jerk thinks it does not mean 'everybody knows that.' Vaccines are what stopped it in the first place!"

[Silent Type]

13. There is something called "vaccine-derived poliovirus." But it's a strain that affects unvaccinated populations. CDC

article:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/vaccine-derived-poliovirus-faq.html

Relatively low numbers, at least now.

[Trust_Reality]

14. Ask him where in the hell he gets his information.

"Everybody knows that" is a Trump line (of BS and manipulation).

[dalton99a]

15. Idiots should stay away from hospitals and antibiotics

[Karasu]

16. LOL! RFK Jr. is going to get rid of preservatives?

Fat chance. Preservatives are pretty much universal in this country and have been for decades...and conservatives are corporate stooges. If anything, he'll defund the FDA and lift regulations so American corporations have even MORE freedom to add extraneous chemicals than they already do.

[Hekate]

23. Anyone who does home canning, sausage making, and the like, knows that the prime preservatives...

…for centuries have been salt and sugar in large quantities. And you can still sicken or kill the whole family if you fail to boil the hell out of all your equipment and the food.

This works well enough on a small scale, but to feed an enormous non-farming population requires following Dr Pasteur’s research and President Teddy Roosevelt’s laws very closely. It’s just that this current crop of back-to-Nature idiots wants to throw out the last two centuries of Western Science, because reasons.

Oh, and ingredients like lots of salt and sugar in commercially canned foods have gone out of style — meaning they must be replaced with something to act as a preservative.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

34. RFK Jr will be getting rid of salt and sugar, I guess, since this guy says RFK Jr is getting rid of preservatives.

Salt and sugar, 2 of the biggest killers!

[Hekate]

42. Of course he will

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

44. Probably on day 1

[Retrograde]

50. Acids like vinegar help

I do a modest amount of canning, and while I can be somewhat cavalier in day to day cooking, when comes to canning I follow the Ball Blue Book religiously. I wish, though, that the USDA would provide actual pH numbers for preserving fruits and vegetables

[Hekate]

51. Right you are. My late Mom did a fair amount of canning where she had fruit trees...

But she was meticulous. My sis is too, and extends the craft to putting by entrees and vegetables.

For some reason I am afraid to do it myself, and rely on the refrigerator after filling my jam jars. However I did do a lot of reading about the processes back in the 1970s when (as I recently told my 20 y.o. grandson) some of us thought the world economy was going to flatline.

There are so many traditional methods of food preservation, because the alternative was starving to death if you didn’t. Smoking, drying, pickling, fermentation, and on and on. (And it is fun to get creative and make your own yogurt and bread and sauerkraut or kimchee when your life doesn’t actually depend on it)

It’s just that what keeps you going in a rural small-farming lifestyle must be scaled up enormously when some or all of the population moves to the city — you have to get very serious about things like transportation and shelf life. In my experience, it’s only fanatics and the terminally ignorant who can’t grasp that — horrifically, it looks like Brain Worm Man may be both.

[Mariana]

81. The magic number is 4.6.

https://nchfp.uga.edu/papers/guide/GUIDE01_HomeCan_rev0715.pdf

See page 1-8, "Food acidity and processing methods"

[maxrandb]

53. Nominated for HHS Secretary

by a know-nothing who subsists on nothing but Big Macs, KFC, Diet Coke, Alderol and HATE.

What could go wrong?

[womanofthehills]

96. You can usually buy the same foods with or without preservatives

Some ice cream lists 3 or 4 ingredients and some lists 25 ingredients. You can buy bacon, hot dogs & lunch meat with or without nitrates. Same for most all foods - peanut butter with one or two ingredients or with 20. People need to read labels.

[oldmanlynn]

17. Tell them that that's what Hannity says

And that they’ve been watching too much Fox News getting brainwashed

[aeromanKC]

18. You're a fucking idiot.

That's what I would have said.

[OldBaldy1701E]

19. Simple. Point. Laugh loudly. Walk away shaking your head. (n/t)

[pnwmom]

22. Explain to him that that can't happen if parents ask for a KILLED virus polio vaccine,

which is an option.

What is really causing the rise is ignorant parents who are leaving their children unvaccinated, so they are vulnerable to any spread of polio in the population.

[womanofthehills]

97. In the US we only have the dead virus vaccine -

No live polio virus vaccines in US.

Because the live virus vaccine is cheap and instead of a shot you get a spoonful, it’s used in poor countries like Afganistan. Our US polio vaccines won’t keep you from getting & transmissing the vaccine strain from the oral polio vaccine - but it will be mild. The wild virus & the vaccine induced polio - are two different strains.

[pnwmom]

98. Yes, thank you. Apparently there was a US case, but the person must have either

gotten it somewhere else, or gotten it from a person who was shedding virus from an old vaccine (from earlier than 2000).

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/vaccine-derived-poliovirus-faq.html

When my first child was born, I took her to the health department so she'd get the killed virus vaccine instead of the oral. By the time I had her brother, they were only using the killed virus injections in the US.

[Katcat]

24. Proof

I would have asked him to show me proof of his claims

[tornado34jh]

25. Say if we had a time machine and brought people who back then had untreatable things like polio and plague

If they knew what we have now with treatments and vaccines, they would have thought it was a fucking godsend. They would have thought it was a miracle from God. I swear, we have the stupidest people sometimes. Sometimes I wonder if I am on Earth or a different dimension.

[maxrandb]

55. I have said this about Social Security and Medicare

"It's not like America was just sitting around one day and said; 'let's give older Americans some retirement money for the hell of it'". "NO, America looked around and saw old people who built and fought for this country dying in the streets, being discarded by employers when their usefulness expired, and being sent to poor farms to live in squalor, and said; 'this must NOT stand!'"

That's why and how we put Social Security into place.

The Reich has been working to end Social Security since before the ink dried.

Those who don't know history are bound to repeat it.

[tornado34jh]

64. Also, life expectancy was much lower back then before those treatments existed

Back then, if you could survive past 40-50, that was considered great. They have no idea how easy they have it compared to now. You mention Social Security. Ask yourself this: Why have prices increased over the years while the wages have stalled? You can look at a graph and see how much it is diverging, not converging. They complain about the homeless situation, but they then are surprised when more people are becoming that because things are becoming less affordable.

[AdamGG]

26. They must have had pretty bad education to start with

I guess RFK went to good schools and he believes this shit, but in general growing up in schools with good science programs should make one less likely to buy into it.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

35. RFK may have learned it in his schooling, and then the brain worm caused a short circuit. nt

[AdamGG]

46. But I think he got the brain worm

from eating random roadkill carrion, so he was pretty fucked to start with.

[Hieronymus Phact]

27. You missed a great opportunity

to LAUGH IN HIS FACE!
Laughter is the best medicine!
I recommend laughter and ridicule for the plainly ridiculous!
Please consider it for next time.

[elleng]

28. First: 'YOU IDIOT,'

and then a quick discussion of Jonas Salk, and some statistics.

I'm with you" "I JUST CAN'T ANYMORE"!!!

[3catwoman3]

31. IPV (inactivated polio vaccine) is a killed virus vaccine that has been...

…used exclusively in the US since 2000. It cannot and does not cause polio.

One of the things I do not miss since retiring is the utter futility of trying to dissuade ignoramuses (ignorami?) like this doofus of the woeful error in their thinking, if you can call it thinking.

[generalbetrayus]

32. How do you counter that? You don't - you just walk away.

"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

37. If the peace/joy/happiness comes with targeting certain people unfairly, then not so be it. nt

[mwb970]

38. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of most Americans is simply staggering.

Before trump I had no idea it was this widespread.

[misanthrope]

40. My favorite blanket rejoinder from these types

"Don't you know? It's all chemicals!"

Guess what, Einstein. EVERYTHING is chemicals.

[yardwork]

61. I've also said, "Arsenic is all-natural."

It gets confused looks but at least they usually shut up.

[misanthrope]

66. So are bonded hydrogen and oxygen

but when you inhale water, it doesn't work so well.

[Buns_of_Fire]

41. Which one is it that makes you sterile if you get it as an adult?

Perhaps that young genius will contract it and spare the world his reproduction.

[Mariana]

48. I think it's mumps

for which this man has almost certainly been vaccinated.

[Boomerproud]

71. Mumps.

nt

[cksmithy]

88. Mumps

My mom got mad at me because I was the first one to get sick, out of 6 kids, because I might make my older brother "not be able to have kids, it was all my fault." I was 11 or 12, he was 17, and we all got mumps. Very religious house, the girls were slave labor, the boys were super special and didn't have any chores. (Too much info, but I that is was I am afraid of happening again.)

[KentuckyWoman]

43. It is amazing how SURE people are in their wrongness.

MAGA people will quote sheer stupidity with absolute authority like Jesus himself appeared fresh from the pearly gates to enlighten the planet. Got the be the dumbest people on the planet.

Walk away is all you can do. There's no reaching them.

[misanthrope]

49. Dunning-Kruger Effect

It is everywhere.

[COL Mustard]

45. That guy sounds like he believes

That if you get polio, or some other disease, it was God’s will. No thought of doing anything for yourself.

[malaise]

54. You ask him about his grades in high school

Science class

[Emile]

58. LOL, that would be a great question.

[Kaleva]

95. RFK Jr himself graduated from Harvard

and the London School of Economics. Goebbels had a PhD. Close to 50% of white males with a college degree voted for Trump

[Emile]

57. Lot of stupid people in this country.

[BBbats]

60. Just goes to show how effective the dumbing down of our educational system has worked.

I only have a high school education but I'm finding I'm better educated than so many college students.
I remember seeing my daughter's first year college literature reading list & seeing books I had to read my first year of High School.
I also see people having trouble making change in a cashier's position if the register/terminal doesn't figure it for them.
And don't get me started on how many people in the mighty USA that can't read period!

[Richard D]

63. I would bring up Samoa . . .

. . . and the 83 deaths from measles, mostly in children, that happened after RFK scared the population into not getting vaccinated.

[Mariana]

72. It would be a waste of time.

His beliefs are a matter of faith..

[kerry-is-my-prez]

69. Part of the problem is you went to church. They are mainly taken over by Trumpsters.

If you have to go to a church go to an Episcopalian or Presbyterian one. Lutheran might be ok. Do NOT give that church any money. They don’t need any more power or money.

[kentuck]

73. Next time, you will have a choice.

Take it or leave it. It's your life.

[The Wizard]

77. Thought disorders are covered by Obamacare.

[Traildogbob]

78. Small pox

I sometimes think Pooty poo and his Bull Shit Army on Social Media, are convincing the stupidest among us to never vax, so when thy release a bio warfare attack, we have no chance to survive.
Nor do we deserve to.

[TommieMommy]

79. Can't fix stupid 🙄 unfortunately

[RandomNumbers]

83. Strategize how to keep you and yours as safe as possible

(in answer to "how do you counter that" )

Let the fucking idiots reap what they have sown.

Yes I feel for the powerless that will also suffer. But any adult that stupid deserves what they get. I'm going to try to figure out how to protect myself as best as possible, and any kids that I can; because I know strongly believe that shit is going to get bad. (This is one of many things these days where I hope to God that I am wrong. I won't be wrong on the science. Whether those fruitcakes can actually implement their diabolical plans is where I hope that things are less bleak.)

[Zambero]

84. I would advise him to

Get bit by a rabid animal. A bat perhaps. Don't follow up with the rabies vaccine. Just do nothing and trust your immune system. See what happens. Because everyone knows, that the mere existence of a rabies vaccine is driveing up the number of people afflicted with rabies.

[Rebl2]

87. Should have

said so why did polio almost disappear in the USA once kids were given the vaccine back in the ‘60’s?

[Takket]

93. "How do you counter that?"

Answering that is the biggest challenge facing the DNC between now and 2028, and really, 2026.

Dems have to relentless and mercilessly pound social media/podcasts/anything else younger people are using to get information.

we're losing them... because they are being BURIED under an avalanche of tik tok videos from their crazy aunts and russian trolls feeding them this bullshit, and no one is watching traditional media anymore

[pansypoo53219]

99. but, DON'T call them stupid.