General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhere the Democratic Party goes from here. Some important discussion, imo.
Ruhle show, Max Rose: Jeffries best uniter, Spanberger race, uniting message? = RAMPANT repug corruption. and crazieness.
AND effect on Bond Market will get tmp's attention.
https://www.msnbc.com/11th-hour/watch/rebirth-over-resistance-where-the-democratic-party-goes-from-here-224642629722
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)about how the Democratic party alienated the working class and he's not exactly wrong
elleng
(136,095 posts)'Something very big was happening: a rebellion against the establishment.'
via Robert Reich.
*In 2016 and then again in 2024, Trump galvanized millions of blue-collar voters living in communities that have never recovered from the tidal wave of factory closings and loss of good jobs.
Big money in politics has been the root of the problem. Campaign donations from wealthy individuals and big corporations have turned the economy over to large corporations, CEOs, and billionaires.
Large corporations, CEOs, and billionaires have embraced global trade without giving blue-collar workers any means of coping with it.
They have turned Wall Street into a gambling casino without insuring the rest of America against the risk that those bets would turn bad.
They have allowed giant corporations to monopolize without giving workers the countervailing power to unionize.
This was the premise of Bernie Sanderss 2016 campaign. It was also central to Trumps appeal (Im so rich I cant be bought off) although once elected he delivered everything big money wanted. And, of course, his promises were empty ones.
In the 2016 primaries, Bernie Sanders did far better than Hillary Clinton with blue-collar voters. He did this by attacking trade agreements, Wall Street greed, income inequality, and big money in politics. Sanders sought to remedy the disease of the Democratic Party its abandonment of economic populism and of the American dream.
Now that Trump has been reelected and his Republican lapdogs are in control of the Senate and likely to be in control of the House, its critically important for Democrats, progressives, and everyone concerned about social justice to see where the anger in Americas heartland has come from, to channel it toward its real causes, and to commit to taking power back from the big corporations, CEOs, and billionaires.'
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)Sarah Smarsh?
elleng
(136,095 posts)The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)and it really caught my attention around 38 minutes
elleng
(136,095 posts)Interesting. I have no idea about 'solutions,' and no idea how to identify 'the' problem(s.) May go back to Robert Reich.
Part of Reich's findings:
'Trump has been able to channel the intensifying anger of the white working class away from the real causes of working-class distress away from the big corporations, wealthy individuals, and denizens of Wall Street whose money has rigged the game against average working people.
It was not the first time in history that a demagogue has used scapegoats to deflect public attention from the real causes of their distress, and it wont be the last.
In 2016 and then again in 2024, Trump galvanized millions of blue-collar voters living in communities that have never recovered from the tidal wave of factory closings and loss of good jobs.
Big money in politics has been the root of the problem. Campaign donations from wealthy individuals and big corporations have turned the economy over to large corporations, CEOs, and billionaires.
Large corporations, CEOs, and billionaires have embraced global trade without giving blue-collar workers any means of coping with it.
They have turned Wall Street into a gambling casino without insuring the rest of America against the risk that those bets would turn bad.
They have allowed giant corporations to monopolize without giving workers the countervailing power to unionize.
This was the premise of Bernie Sanderss 2016 campaign. It was also central to Trumps appeal (Im so rich I cant be bought off) although once elected he delivered everything big money wanted. And, of course, his promises were empty ones.
In the 2016 primaries, Bernie Sanders did far better than Hillary Clinton with blue-collar voters. He did this by attacking trade agreements, Wall Street greed, income inequality, and big money in politics. Sanders sought to remedy the disease of the Democratic Party its abandonment of economic populism and of the American dream.'
I agree that the Democrats need to be the populist party of the working class, but I think those blue collar felon supporters wont get onboard until the leopard bites their faces, no matter how strong and relentless the Democrats are in taking on the oligarchy. We also need a strong media presence to counter the overbearing 24/7 message of the right. Rich liberals desperately need to finance new radio and television stations or we might never be able to reach those we need to make positive change.
Scrivener7
(52,751 posts)EVER done for the working class?
I'll wait.
And when the answer doesn't come, let's all remember the untold number of things the Democrats HAVE done for the working class.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)nor the Democratic party's in talking to me like that
it is ALIENATING. Get it?
no republicans don't do shit,
but democrats at the very least need a better message.
W_HAMILTON
(8,495 posts)This is the anti-PC -- excuse me, I suppose the new catchphrase is "anti-woke" now -- crowd that just loves them some strongmen. They love people that "tell it like it is" rather than the typical pandering politician.
So, in that vein, I wholeheartedly agree with the other poster: your friend is an idiot.
He apparently can't read and think for himself or he would clearly realize that Republicans are no friends of the working class and any actual gains the working class has made in recent years has come as a direct result of Democratic policies -- often fought against tooth and nail by Republicans.
So, it sounds like he is one of those types that have to learn through firsthand experience -- he has to touch the stove to find out it's hot because he ain't gonna listen to no one tellin' him what to do!
He's going to learn quite a bit over the next few years.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)may very well be Democratic.
He voted for Harris because he knows what Trump is.
And he's pissed at the Democrats.
Both these things can be true
Scrivener7
(52,751 posts)I can't do anything about people who are determined to cut their own throats. I've learned that lesson all too well.
You seem to think I owe you something about the opinion you are presenting. An opinion that, apparently, you agree with. Fact is, I don't owe you anything. If you're going to spout nonsense, the solution is not for me to change my behavior so you won't feel ALIENATED. Get it?
I presume you're an adult. If you or your friend are going to cut your own throats, and then when the bleeding starts, place the blame where it obviously doesn't belong, that's on you.
You know who isn't helping their case? Those who insist we smile and nod at this bullshit.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)my friend voted for Harris
Scrivener7
(52,751 posts)That insults Democrats. That ALIENATES me from whatever the hell point you're trying to make.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)like you're infallible
that's arrogant
not unlike the president-elect
and you're telling me I'm the one who's alienating
Scrivener7
(52,751 posts)the working class. Which opinion, frankly, IS idiocy.
So that makes you think I'm arrogant. I did search my soul over that, but it turns out I don't care.
What now? Am I supposed to beg you to stop feeling alienated?
Have a lovely day.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)now welcome to my ignore collection
Scrivener7
(52,751 posts)"Democrats alienated the working class" I'll be sure to let you know. Till then, save it.
yardwork
(64,377 posts)snot
(10,705 posts)"The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion
From the Bottom 90% -- And That's Made the U.S. Less Secure":
"There are some who blame the current plight of working Americans on structural changes in the underlying economy--on automation, and especially on globalization. According to this popular narrative, the lower wages of the past 40 years were the unfortunate but necessary price of keeping American businesses competitive in an increasingly cutthroat global market. But in fact, the $50 trillion transfer of wealth the RAND report documents has occurred entirely within the American economy, not between it and its trading partners. No, this upward redistribution of income, wealth, and power wasn't inevitable; it was a choice--a direct result of the trickle-down policies we chose to implement since 1975.
"We chose to cut taxes on billionaires and to deregulate the financial industry. We chose to allow CEOs to manipulate share prices through stock buybacks, and to lavishly reward themselves with the proceeds. We chose to permit giant corporations, through mergers and acquisitions, to accumulate the vast monopoly power necessary to dictate both prices charged and wages paid. We chose to erode the minimum wage and the overtime threshold and the bargaining power of labor. For four decades, we chose to elect political leaders who put the material interests of the rich and powerful above those of the American people."
Working people used to see Democrats as their advocates, but too often Dems seem to have colluded in bringing about the changes that have facilitated the looting of the working class (see, e.g., the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the decision not to regulate credit derivatives, the bank bailout after the 2008 crash, et al.) I've felt frustrated that Dems haven't even been trying to make the case for helpful reforms. Why did we have to wait decades for Bernie Sanders to start talking about this stuff, before other Dems bothered even to give it lip service? Of course the Republicans are as bad or worse, but I think many voters are desperate for change; and to many, Trump seems prepared to disrupt both Dem and Republican establishments that's part of how he's sold himself.
It's ironic and unfair that Biden probably tried to do more for workers than many other recent Dems, but I'm afraid the damage to the party's image had already been done, and Biden's efforts were too little too late to turn the ship around.
yardwork
(64,377 posts)Workers became convinced by Republican lies and propaganda that the Democrats abandoned workers. It's a Big Lie.
Yavin4
(36,394 posts)Whatever the Jon Stewarts-DNC-consultants-Robert-Reich-MSNBC panelists want to do, let them do it. I'm all for it.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)yardwork
(64,377 posts)Be specific, please. Cite the actual piece of legislation, the year and who was in the majority, who proffered the bill, and exactly how it "abandoned workers."
I'll wait.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)I can look for more if you'd like
yardwork
(64,377 posts)27. lol! Republican majority Congress. Newt's contact on America.
2:48 PM
From Wiki:
Both chambers had Republican majorities for the first time since the 83rd Congress in 1953. Major events included passage of elements of the Contract with America and a budget impasse between Congress and the Clinton administration that resulted in the federal government shutdown of 1995 and 1996.
Scrivener7
(52,751 posts)passed a law.
This seems - er - unserious and intentionally provocative in a non-Democratic way. If you catch my drift.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)I would've been even more fucked.
And my mom worked her ass off
yardwork
(64,377 posts)I remember it well. Newt Gingrich. And there's when AM hate radio went into full swing.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)yardwork
(64,377 posts)He had to sign it. The Republicans shut down the government over and over as it was. Down ticket Democrats were vulnerable. We'd lost the House for the first time since the 1950s due to right-wing propaganda about welfare queens. The Republicans maintained a relentless witch hunt against Clinton.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)I don't remember the details,
I was 23 trying to figure out how to put my life together.
I was very angry that it passed though
yardwork
(64,377 posts)They were furious when Clinton beat George H, W. Bush, denying them a fourth Reagan term. They ramped up the disinformation machine - AM radio, Fox News - and went after the Clintons. The Republicans won big in the midterms and went right work.
Newt's Contract on America had three purposes (1) typical Republican cruelty to the poor, plus (2) a chance to blame the Clintons plus (3) launching the GOP disinformation machine to unite Republicans in righteous indignation, fed by lies, and confuse and divide Democrats.
With the influx of foreign billionaire funds made possible by the USSC decision in Citizens United, this strategy works better and better. It's pure evil.
yardwork
(64,377 posts)From Wiki:
Both chambers had Republican majorities for the first time since the 83rd Congress in 1953. Major events included passage of elements of the Contract with America and a budget impasse between Congress and the Clinton administration that resulted in the federal government shutdown of 1995 and 1996.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)when I say alienated, I don't mean abandoned.
The interview with Sarah Smarsh I linked in reply #5
explains my position better than I can
yardwork
(64,377 posts)Democrats fight for the workers but we lose against the disinformation machine. Which, I hate to say, you're contributing to.
The Wandering Harper
(632 posts)I'll sincerely think on that.
I don't want to be a disinformation vector.
Specifically, do you regard the video I mentioned as disinformation?
yardwork
(64,377 posts)Look, I understand where some people are coming from when they say the Democratic Party isn't far enough to the left for them. We can't expect Socialists to agree with Democrats all the time. I wish we had a parliamentary system here in the U.S. where more than two parties got seats in Congress.
Unfortunately, we have a binary choice. When Democrats are in power we can get things done. When Republicans are in power they wreck and steal. When Socialists do the Republicans' talking points, we lose.
Yavin4
(36,394 posts)I say, "go for it". The Democrats can run however they want to run, wherever they want to run it. Do whatever you got to do.
Blue_Tires
(55,848 posts)When the Democratic party has to always reinvent the wheel and Trump literally ran the same campaign with the same message for nine consecutive years...