Go ahead and attack me, but the defeatism on this site is out of control

[onenote]

Some of us are old enough to remember what it felt like wake up the day after election day realizing we had lost by over 17 million votes and more than 500 electoral votes. Happened twice in my lifetime. I'm not downplaying how awful Trump is. He is the worst president in our history. But there are more of us now than there were back when we were getting creamed by Reagan and Nixon. I'm not prepared to surrender, but it sure seems like a lot DUers have already decided we're doomed and that nothing can save us.

[Ocelot II]

1. Thank you for this. Things look pretty bleak right now, but

it doesn't make a lick of sense to just give up before we've even tried to resist. Giving up is tantamount to obeying in advance, which is the worst possible thing to do right now.

Do not obey in advance. Most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then offer themselves without being asked. A citizen who adapts in this way is teaching power what it can do.
~Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny

[bdamomma]

12. I was just

thinking about this book. Remember, they want to wear us down, don't let them do it!!!

[BattleRow]

33. Iow,don't be a volunteer victim.

[uponit7771]

78. Trump enters office with more power than Hitler when he became Chancellor

Let's be prepared. Not scared

[Polly Hennessey]

2. I have to agree. Too much doom/gloom and flee the

country attitude. Trump is a horror inflicted on this country by too many hateful and/or willfully ignorant people. I, for one, will continue to fight for my beliefs and stay in a country worthy of protecting.

[Kaleva]

3. Not everyone has what it takes to fight Maga and never give up

I'm already looking forward to 2026 and thinking of ways I can increase my contributions, both by donating and effort, to the fight .

[AZ8theist]

17. I'm just happy now my phone isn't blown up every morning.......

.....with 75-100 texts begging for money from people I've never heard of......

[Kaleva]

56. Agree!

[sop]

57. I''ve never received so many texts and emails asking for money as I did from the Harris-Walz campaign..

At least my phone didn't actually blow up, like Hezbollah's exploding phones in Lebanon. I hope Trump doesn't get any funny ideas from Netenyahu.

[Walleye]

4. I certainly don't intend to become a quisling, but I am depressed. I don't think there's anything I personally can do

To improve the situation. I’m an old woman I’ve seen a lot. I’m just hoping they leave me alone and don’t touch my Social Security. I donated money to these campaigns. I’ve always been a Democrat. Just allow me to be depressed for a while.

[XanaDUer2]

10. I'm hoping they leave me alone

Too and don't touch my earned benefits. I'm pretty depressed

[Walleye]

11. I hear ya

[ratchiweenie]

26. I'm right there with you. Also and old woman who's seen a lot. My biggest fear is the Supreme Court is now MAGA too so

we have never had a situation like this and it scares me for my children and grand children.

[Walleye]

39. I don't have any grandchildren, but I do have a one year-old grand niece I worry about

[BarbD]

44. At 86 years old, I am also an old woman

And, I respect the need for time to process. What shook me out of my depression was a phone call yesterday from my grandson who asked me what he should do. I realized my responsibility to encourage him to have hope and suggested he attend a local Democratic Party meeting initially as an observer. He just moved to California from Connecticut.

Recognizing that knowledge is power, I am slowly re-entering MSNBC. Right now I'm watching Velshi who just interviewed Maria Ressa -- a Philippino journalist who recently wrote a book "How to Stand up to a Dictator". I will be ordering this book from Barnes & Noble (I don't support Amazon).

[kerry-is-my-prez]

72. Yes! She warns against how dictators use hate and fear to manipulate people.

Sorry I missed it.

[DeeDeeNY]

48. Same for me

I'm 75 and don't think I've ever been this depressed in my life. It's difficult to comprehend the extreme ignorance that allowed Trump to be elected and for Dems to lose the House and Senate. I hope things change and have been fighting to see some light at the end of the tunnel, but so far I haven't been able to read newspapers or watch news on TV. I can't bear to look at that orange face or hear his voice.

[electric_blue68]

92. SS, Medicare, and Medicaid*

*provides my living arrangements.
So I have to fight off some spikes of fear, despair.

But I worry about others as well. Younger women, Black people and other POC, undocumented people, LGBTQUI community, etc. Our environment, climate change efforts. So, yeah...

[GenThePerservering]

5. I've quit reading most of the posts nt

[33taw]

6. I agree. But I also understand the mood of doom.

I was young, but I disliked Nixon, but I did not fear he would commit murder and harm thousands. I felt the same with Reagan. While I didn't agree with them, I did not believe they loathed our country and could not care less who lived or died.

[thinkingagain]

9. Me, I'm a Natural worrrier/ anxietier

And all the years that different people have been elected, local ones to the presidency.
I never worried they would destroy the country and turn into something different. Some thing that we fought against from the inception of this country. I didn’t worry that we were going to have a dictator until now.

[IA8IT]

7. Reagan reelection was when I told myself just voting isn't enough. Lick our wounds pitter-patter, let's get at 'er

Letterkenny

[Ferryboat]

8. Age gives perspective,

Having seen and lived through dire, seemingly hopeless times before, we have work to do.

Never give up, never back down. Call them out, bear witness when the thugs show up.

Am I demoralized? Check
Angry? Fuck yes
Organize, find one issue to rally around and push

Too many of us here never had to fight for anything nor really suffered enough to have to dig deep to continue.

Now is the time to learn, do I have what it takes?

[Autumn]

13. I just read your headline but maybe you should let other people discuss how they feel about

what has happened the last four years and about this devastating election that will cause repercussions in our lives for the next generation. You have no problem discussing how you feel. Other posters deserve the same respect.

[Ocelot II]

14. Discuss away. Nobody is stopping you.

The OP just offered their own opinion that defeatism isn't a good or useful approach to this dire situation. If you think it is, you're welcome to say so.

[Autumn]

22. Opps sorry, I forgot to add without complaining about it.

Better? What people post here has no impact on anything outside of here.

[Erda]

30. I agree that discussing how we feel is helpful

But immediately afterwards, we MUST return to the fight!

We can't afford to surrender our power to these baby NAZIs, who have not as yet fully consolidated their power and who do not know how to govern. They depend on us to enable them by giving up, turning off the news, and surrendering, even before the fight has begun.

A friend told me yesterday about a similar situation that had occurred in Uruguay. The country had been taken over by a dictatorship. The people resisted, fought back and finally were able to re-establish their democracy, which is now highly regarded as a "full democracy" and a model for the entire world.

We can do the same. We need to develop a strategy, a way forward. The best political thinkers on our side, I hope, will guide us. We have so much work to do and it will take all of us to pitch in where we can.

[Trust_Reality]

62. Thank you for this. If Uruguay can do it surely we can too, hopefully now rather than later.

I would be reassured if most of us (especially Democrats with power !! ) seemed to realize how serious this is. This is not Nixon. This is not Reagan. This is more than an incompetent buffoon who conned people. This is a broad movement involving many RW radical groups and billionaires whose procedures are well advanced. I agree that a declaration to "fight" is too vague and mostly useless. I absolutely agree with those who urge us not to capitulate in advance. I agree that finger pointing is a bad idea and not useful except that it may help as we to try to understand why this happened. We should keep in mind that it has taken years, not just an election cycle.

Very soon we need to get going.

We have a few weeks, a few days, to get into action. I am terrified that Biden will not use his power as president and will do nothing. I am terrified that Democratic politicians will do almost nothing of significance. I am terrified that the justice system has capitulated in advance. I am terrified that the supreme court is controlled by MAGA radicals. I am frightened by the fascists' aim to get control of the military. (That one is really serious.) I am concerned about the number of minds that have been captured by the con man. I am concerned that I am not seeing much in the way of action. OK, so it has not yet been a week. But the time is short.

And I am sure as hell not planning on giving up !

[Willard123]

15. The seething white hot hate

Isn’t helping either. It’s making people dream up bizarre horror scenarios that really aren’t likely to happen, and convince others to believe and worry about them.
Maybe it’s a coping mechanism but it has to settle down sometime.

[radical noodle]

90. I have seething white hot hate

but no bizarre horror scenarios. Are you saying they didn't mean the things they said they'd do? Because what they promised is a horror scenario, just not a bizarre one.

[B.See]

94. Seems to me, seething white hot hate

is what propelled Trump voters to elect a self proclaimed dictator day one who had run a campaign of hate and demagoguery, framed the flames of racism and bigotry, and made a lot of threats and promises of revenge.

While Harris ran on a message of promise and hope, pledging to be a President for all Americans.

But we're at fault for being outraged by that? I don't THINK so.

Btw, welcome to DU.

[wryter2000]

16. It's how some of us cope with awful situations

No matter what one posts, someone will post how hopeless any positive result is. That way they can never be disappointed.

But, seriously, we are not dealing with Nixon or Reagan now.

[lark]

18. We are in shock and rage and in deep fear and there is no one doing anything about it.

I did just see a bit of blue sky where there was a pattern discovered only in the 7 swing states where there were votes showing for only 1 candidate or proposition - only votes for tsf and there were I think 60,000 of these. Enough to change the outcomes. It was said that a hand recount would find these numbers differ from those counted at the voting places A letter was sent to the Harris committee suggesting they immediately file for a hand recount in all 7 states!!

That is the only kind of thing that can save us. What can we at DU do? March in non-existent marches?

If the Harris campaign will take the bull by the horns and file for recounts in states besides PA, we can support them by funding this effort. Again, what else can we do. The fascists have stolen the nation and all 3 parts of the government - without proof of this, we are powerless.

Do you want us to sing kumbaya and make nice with Repugs knowing they are trying to destroy us and the liberal democracies of the world? I don't think so. Maybe we will be allowed to have another election - maybe not. If not - again - ???

BTW- growing up and learning about Nazi Germany, I always admired the people who got out ahead of the nightmare - same thng goes for here.

[Willard123]

25. These things didn't happen

Last time Trump was in there, and I don’t believe they will this time.
Handmaids Tale and Stepford Wives and Soylent Green aren’t all that useful as a worldview, or to build one’s existence around.
There are better things to do to respond and win.

[lark]

29. So you think this time will be like last?

No way!

You keep putting out these vaugue sentiments but no action steps. What are you suggesting other than entropy will keep us the same, and there is strong evidence right now it's getting worse. Gaetz would never have been selected with the first go round, the Education Dept. wasn't on the block and massive chaos from deporting 10's of millions of folks wasn't scheduled. I think your assesment is just not valid, although I certainly wish it were.

[JoseBalow]

84. I am suspicious of noobs telling me all is well

Feels like trying to lull me into a false sense of security.

[Blues Heron]

38. But roe v Wade actually was overturned because of Trumps picks- your saying that didn't happen?

We are in the handmaids tale right now.

[Scrivener7]

86. DU seems to have entered the same era of casual, brutal sexism as the rest of the country.

Today I've been treated to threads that said, "No one cares about abortion, we shouldn't have run on it," and "Trump won because women are always cutting each other down."

How many, I wonder, are secretly pleased?

[Shrek]

98. In the most recent election 7 states voted to protect or expand reproductive rights

I've never read The Handmaid's Tale but I'm fairly certain it wouldn't have any similar election results.

[TheKentuckian]

40. To me you are coming off as someone so distant from the fire

that not only can you not imagine yourself being burned but don't even think it is possible for fat to sizzle in flames at all.

Or perhaps someone that is about to combust and is bargaining really, really hard.

I sure do not trust the intent and have little confidence in mystical "guardrails" this time.

They may fail but I see zero indications they are not going to try.

My best hope lies in incompetence and I can only depend on that so much but then I don't believe I am the slightest bit flame retardant either.

Telling me it is fine has no resonance whatsoever.

No, I don't believe you.

That is not an attack on your veracity but rather a statement of little to no confidence in your assessments.

We are all Jon Snow on this one and actually KNOW nothing but I am confident in the intent of the enemy and that is more than enough for vexing concern, at a minimum.

[Scrivener7]

85. Let me guess: well-off white guy?

[Meowmee]

95. My father was murdered

And so were millions of other Americans.

[Native]

101. I seriously didn't just read this here on DU. WTF?

[jaxexpat]

19. Suggestions? I've heard the word fight used a lot but all I've seen is people throwing money at candidate coffers and...

knocking on doors and talking to strangers. Since Kamala conceded, all I've heard is Trump won, we must resist......... but there's nothing much to resisting unless it's "resisting arrest", then it gets complicated.

It kinda disgusts me when I hear cheer leading and "fight, fight, fight" from folks who have not experienced the first skinned knuckle or bruised jaw. Let's be clear, when Trump gets into the Whitehouse, it will be too late for anything you might want to do. The conservative plague has overcome every legal obstacle progressives have placed before it. It's like MAGA thrives on legal obstacles. Until Progressives are prepared to back up their calls to "fight", the harsh winds of change will tear their words from their lips before they've been spoken, much less heard. It's the dawn of the era of fascism. It will not be pretty.

[MLWR]

20. Go ahead and attack me, but the defeatism on this site is out of control

We have all suffered a terrible and devastating loss. Some of us more than others. Losses must and will be mourned and grieving will take place for many of us. I think we should all be able to express our feelings as we go through the various stages without judgment.

[Blue Full Moon]

21. Run campaign rallies for all 4 yrs.

The energy was high and with this mess it would be a way to keep the energy going and not sink into despair. Have it be our rock stars, Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Adam Shiff, Josh Shapiro, Steve Beshear, Jasmine Crockett, Elizabeth Warren, Gavin Newsome, Sherrod Brown, Hillary Clinton, Barack and Michelle Obama and Bernie Sanders. Others not listed. Democratic values and when closer to primaries the individual policies. Hold press conferences non stop.

[kenziemom06]

61. Agree!

That's what the Mango Mussolini did. Never left the news cycle, announced his candidacy almost immediately, and attacked Biden mercilessly every minute. We should without a doubt employ the same strategy.

[jalan48]

23. Yeah, lots of blaming and finger pointing, like post 2016. It's what Dems do best apparently.

[Willard123]

31. Those things are normal;

It’s the endless fantasy doom porn that’s fairly unique.
It’s like this is all that a lot of people want now.

[jalan48]

34. Not when they go on for years. You're new to DU, you'll see.

[usonian]

24. A whole lot of us are seniors here, and have little to lose ...

Social Security and Medicare being tops.

But, while not advocating violence ever, I see a lot of determination not to leave this country and world in shambles.

I used to visit my grandmother's house, and her three sons were in different branches of the service in WWII. I read some of their leftovers. "The Flying Fortress", "How to make a foxhole radio" and "The Bluejacket's Manual". I later got one of my own, paperback of course, in the Coast Guard.

I also got a copy of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", not sure how and when, but I have always hated tyrants, and loved compassionate works.

Being a techie, I have unfailingly argued for technology that empowers and liberates people, even and especially when it gets in the hands of sociopaths.



They won't be riding so high when tariffs and the crash of the AI bubble take away billions.


Adlai Stevenson supposedly said "Eggheads of the World, unite. You have nothing to lose but your yolks" And Reagan is rumored to have said, "You can't make an omelette without cracking some skulls."

Seniors, RAISE CANE!

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

27. PREACH, onenote, PREACH !! Say it a little louder for the foks in the overflow...EOM

[bluestarone]

28. Ok, first off in my opinion i don't think ANYBODY here today has witnessed anything close to what just happen in America

Second, i feel IF and i sat IF this bullet ballots are true, why would anybody here be against a recount? I feel we are at a crossroad where from the very first day TFG gets back in the white House our country is DOOMED. As an American, i feel it's everyone's duty to at the very least SAVE our democracy! I personally I will do everthing in my power to stop these EVIL bastards from doing what they want to do!! Please IF we can get a full recount DO IT!

[The Madcap]

32. There is something special about

The members of this site...their intelligence and compassion. I can't really say that about X or many other social media sites. This is what keeps me here, even in scary times. Thank you all.

[bronxiteforever]

35. The Supreme Court is a right wing nut job controlled

activist branch until 2050. I don’t see how positive attitudes will change that. That is not defeatism but reality.

As to the other two branches, I am not defeatist. The Senate is always going to be a reach for us. The House can be retaken.

The attack on SS and Medicare and the modern administrative state need to fought. Whether we win, I have no idea. The National Security will be in jeopardy for the next 4 years. I am not leaving the Country.

But the darkness and ignorance that flows through our land is real and that is a hard thing to fight but we have no choice. To quote the Lord of the Rings “What can men do against such reckless hate? ' Aragorn says, “Ride out with me. Ride out and meet them.”

[edhopper]

36. I am sorry

but this is worse. We have never had an Administration this incompetent, this corrupt and in fealty to a foreign enemy. And I don't see any Democrat in power doing a damn thing about it.
We did fight, on November 5th, we lost.
For me, doom and gloom is a realistic take.

[Emile]

37. Do you support a recount?

[onenote]

54. Where there is actual evidence warranting a recount, yes.

But, for example, I need to see substantiation of the "bullet ballot" claims.
According to those claims, 350,000 ballots were cast with only a vote for the president, and only for Trump. Yet, the total number of votes cast in the Governor's race was only 88,000 fewer than the total number of votes cast in the presidential race. Maybe someone can explain how there could be 350,000 ballots cast marked just for the presidential race, but only 88,000 fewer votes for Governor than president. But I haven't seen that explanation. Nor have I seen any explanation of the source of the assertion that there are 350,000 "bullet ballots" in North Carolina. That information isn't found anywhere on the North Carolina elections site nor have I seen information as to how the number of bullet ballots was calculated anywhere.

The repubs went of on half-cocked - actually fully cocked theories that were readily debunked and that led to lawyers being fined and disbarred. That isn't a path I want to see us going down. But I'm open to challenges that are based on something that doesn't seem to be contradicted by the known evidence or otherwise seemingly plucked from thin air.

[NJCher]

66. if this is an issue for you

pick up the damn phone and call them. I've done it with similar issues and am now doing it with a couple NJ issues. I've received the information I requested.

[onenote]

67. Who am I supposed to call?

The guy making these unsubstantiated claims?

[NJCher]

68. call the state elections office

of whatever states concern you.

[onenote]

69. Call the state election office and say....

there's a guy claiming there were 350,000 instances in which a ballot was cast with only the presidential race filled out, but the difference between the number of ballots cast in the presidential race and the governor's race was only around 88,000 votes. How is this possible?

I know the answer in advance. I think you do as well.

[NJCher]

70. oh the irony

The irony! You post a thread about self-defeatism and then you post this.



If you can't do that and state it in a legitimate fashion, then it's over your head. Get somebody with real communication skills to do it for you.

[onenote]

82. Let me know when Mark Elias weighs in on the "bullet ballot" claim.

He's got the skills and would know exactly who to call.

[AllaN01Bear]

41. howdi.

1: i aint leaving this country. its my country too also. so there too
2: i am going to be a thorn in the side of the gop and prove it during the upcoming primarys and down the road 2 years .3: i am just going to smile and smile and smile. if any of them come to me and say there x has been cut , ill smile even more . it drives them ape nutz.

[J_William_Ryan]

42. "...creamed by Reagan and Nixon..."

Democrats controlled the House in 1981; they controlled both Houses of Congress in 1985, successfully checking Reagan; his ‘revolution’ was mostly a failure.

And before that a Democratic Congress successfully compelled Nixon to resign.

This comparison consequently fails.

Had Democrats retained the Senate or won the House this year, the concern among Democrats would be significantly decreased.

Consequently, great concern for the future is perfectly appropriate.

[tritsofme]

73. Democrats may have controlled the House in the Reagan years, but a conservative coalition

of southern Democrats and Republicans were able to move Reagan agenda items on the floor, especially in the earlier years. Democrats would not take back the Senate until 1987.

[Ponietz]

43. Oh, okay then

]

[Blasphemer]

45. I think it's different this time...

I hope I am wrong but Trump likely will have appointed 6 Supreme Court justices before he’s through. I do not believe there is any coming back from that with climate devastation on the horizon.

[BannonsLiver]

46. I'm sick of the "tHeRe wOnT eVeN bE aN eLeCtIon" shit.

It’s performative and super lame. We get it, you’re despondent. Maybe keep that part to yourself. (Not talking about the OP).

[WarGamer]

63. BINGO!

[uponit7771]

79. You're right, last time was fantastic with this guy it'll be even better this time

[Shrek]

97. I wish I could rec this a billion times n/t

[milestogo]

47. Then go somewhere else.

[onenote]

55. No thank you.

[bikes and bunnies]

49. I agree. Buck up, people!

Don't let the bastards get you down.

[ck4829]

50. No complaint from me, friend. K&R

[Progressive dog]

51. You arre right

There has never been a President like Trump and he has promised much worse in a second term, but we are stuck with him. A lot of what he wants to do is illegal and we can hope some R's will recognize that.
I'm trying to be less pessimistic about the horror of Trump.

[GPV]

52. We didn't know about the ticking climate time bomb. Certainly not the way we

recognized the passed tipping point now. Start factoring things like lost homes that will not get an insurance payout, a shift in our breadbasket leading to food insecurity, and then climate refugees fleeing to the far north and south of the equator. Even if the USA can weather these changes in the short to mid-term, other nations may not and the worldwide balance of power could shift during the coming resource wars.

[Blue_Tires]

53. I'm not going to surrender, but what keeps me up at night

Is with everything on the line, we still couldn't get the votes to defeat a cabal of lawless, incompetent white supremacists. All the Obama-esque levels support and enthusiasm around Harris/Walz, the 70,000 SRO crowds at rallies, Trump faltering and absolutely mailing in the last two months of his campaign, states setting new records for early voting numbers and the polls that had Harris ahead or tied in all the battleground states turned out to be a complete mirage... And 5000 shitty smug know-it-all Monday morning quarterback pundit hot takes later, I still have yet to see a single credible analysis to fully explain what the fuck just happened.

I'm not going to surrender but I *am* going through a crisis of faith in what the United States is supposed to be about right now and I *am* really struggling to figure out who I can trust moving forward...

[Dan]

58. I'm old but thinking,,,,

First from a IT perspective - as someone mentions, the probability of some 60,000 or 600,000 ballots (from only 1 of the swing states) only having checked for the POTUS without any other candidates - highly unlikely. Those were IMO computer generated ballots, and can be quickly validated by a hand count. I also would support Harris request a hand count - having said that the campaign should do it quicker rather than later.

Once Trump is in Office - there will not be a recount or investigation as to what happened.

But also something which gives me hope - Elections are controlled at the State level. What also gives me pause is that GOP Governors (and States where the Legislative body is GOP controlled) have shown an absolute willingness for political corruption to benefit their side.

Also thinking that Trump needs/wants/ and will manufacture a Trigger Event so that he can call for Martial Law - would be helpful to have a legal reason to do what he plans to do regardless of what happens.

As someone said, the potential purge of the Generals will quickly weed out those that in the military that will not support or rather be loyal to Trump.

The former GOP has demonstrated to our faces - that they are pledging loyalty to Trump over the nation and Constitution. That regardless of what happens, we should never forget.

The MAGA people are saying that we are all upset over a vote without understanding their lack of morality as indicated by their vote. They are saying we should come together for the sake of our families and friends. I would not advise anyone on this course of action - one way or the other. I would point to history - the MAGA type people will be the first ones to turn you and your friends/family into the forces that be - because it is their nature. They will support evil - and much later, like the German people of Hitler’s time, profess to not have known about the evil performed in their names.

The question that I mentally contend with is this - once the government steps over that line (whatever it might be), into illegality, full blown corruption, and other acts that the Supreme Court says are legal for a POTUS - what then? How should I respond? Am I by supporting or doing nothing, am I complicit in the evil? Should we be like the ‘White Rose (I think the kids were called that)’ and maybe perform passive resistance? I think we know what tyrants do to people that resist. Given that we are in a minority - what does resistance look like? What say our “leaders” and how would they recommend our response should be? We should know from our history that “leaders” have a way of dying when they threaten the powers that be.

Musk and the oligarchs that are running our nation (Jimmy Carter pointed that out some years ago) control the Media - so the propaganda will be discouraging, and it will actively portray ‘resistance’ as the enemies of democracies. How do you counter that - when J. Hoover was running the FBI (while cross dressing as the clubs) - he was promoting law & order against others while violating the laws to pursue the agenda of the Right.

Social Media, the Press - all are controlled by the Oligarchs and their content and positions that are represented on their sites - are determined by those in control. So at what point do I tune them out, or rather like the Soviets in the past, listen to the media because even in their lying I could find out the truth.

But then again, people elected Trump, the majority! Right now, while I am thinking I know that I am in the backseat of the car speeding toward a train wreck. Lots to think about.

I am thinking this - women, I fear for our sisters, mothers and daughters ; mass deportations which will be directed at POC; Health Care, Veterans Benefits. I know that there are no direct actions that I could do because the people he will put in charge, are like a virus destroying from within.

But I do know this - be careful what you post, think about what you post, because one of the freedoms that we have already lost - is free speech in the electronic age.

Just thinking….and always, of course I could be wrong, have to think on that too.

Excuse grammar mistakes.

[Trust_Reality]

65. I'm old also, and I too have been thinking.

A repeated comment from above...

I would be reassured if most of us (especially Democrats with power !! ) seemed to realize how serious this is. This is not Nixon. This is not Reagan. This is more than an incompetent buffoon who conned people. This is a broad movement involving many RW radical groups and billionaires whose procedures are well advanced. I agree that a declaration to "fight" is too vague and mostly useless. I absolutely agree with those who urge us not to capitulate in advance. I agree that finger pointing is a bad idea and not useful except that it may help as we to try to understand why this happened. We should keep in mind that it has taken years, not just an election cycle.

Very soon we need to get going.

We have a few weeks, a few days, to get into action. I am terrified that Biden will not use his power as president and will do nothing. I am terrified that Democratic politicians will do almost nothing of significance. I am terrified that the justice system has capitulated in advance. I am terrified that the supreme court is controlled by MAGA radicals. I am frightened by the fascists' aim to get control of the military. (That one is really serious.) I am concerned about the number of minds that have been captured by the con man. I am concerned that I am not seeing much in the way of action. OK, so it has not yet been a week. But the time is short.

And I am sure as hell not planning on giving up !

[AverageOldGuy]

59. Well, yes and no . . .

Yes, things do look bleak right now.

On the BAD side: I'll bet a lot of Germans said, "Well, how bad could this Hitler guy be? After all, we are a civilized nation from a long line of culture and history, we cannot descend into barbarism." Which is EXACTLY what the talking heads on MSNBC and CNN and their Substack blogs are saying. And we see how that turned out for Germany

On the GOOD side: We are a nation with a history of laws, a center that holds, decent people who win out over evil. At least that's the way it's always been.

We shall see.

I'm betting:
-- Trump loses some fights with Republicans in Congress but he winds up with evil, nasty people in critical positions and we start going down the toilet.
-- Much of Project 2025 is enacted causing a lot of people a lot of suffering and there's nothing like a little suffering to wake up the sleeping.
-- Things get really bad really quickly. However, the 2026 election turns at least the House over to Democrats who can keep their finger in the dike until 2028.
-- Trump dies, JD Vance and the rest go to hell where they belong.
-- At takes us a decade to fix things.

Meanwhile, I live in a red, rural VA county where Harris-Walz yard signs were shot up, burned, stolen. Already those of us known as Democrats are getting nasty comments in public, trucks cruising by our homes after midnight with the lights out, lots of middle fingers. I now have a pistol in each of my vehicles, shotguns in two, and shotgun and AR-15 in the truck that I drive regularly. Never hurts to be prepared.

[Trust_Reality]

64. Wow! You live in a nasty area. And it is the USA. Just Wow.

[electric_blue68]

91. Wow...so sorry you and others in similar areas are experiencing this harassment!

I have my ups, sort of a neutral state, and downs on all if this.

Glad I live in blue NYC (and not in a Republican/magat area, like a lot of Staten Island, parts of south Brooklyn, parts ?northeast Queens, ?northeastern Bronx. Magats in Manhattan are pretty scattered, I think)
Still, there's some (or more?) trouble on the horizon!

I did write to both Biden, and Harris for the swing State hand recounts!

[OldBaldy1701E]

99. You got it. Stay safe out there. (n/t)

[Elessar Zappa]

60. Completely agree.

This country has been through a lot, including an actual shooting civil war. We had the Gilded Age, the Great Depression, the unrest of the 60’s, etc. We’ll get through this, damaged as we may be.

[synni]

71. Yes! We must always be strong!

Push back against sexist comments online or IRL. Let people know that the rules have not changed in civilized society.

When the economy tanks, say, "You voted for this!"

Be outspoken like the RW'ers, so America knows that roughly half of us know this debacle is only temporary.

[DJ Synikus Makisimus]

74. Manchin-Golden in '28?

I mean assuming the fascists deign to have elections ever again, yeah? After all, Joe Manchin and Jared Golden "saved America" (or at least its corporations) by thwarting the radical socialist Biden "Go Big or Go Home" agenda like the $15/hr minimum wage, the child tax credit and free community college in 2021. Archetypical liberals they truly are! Save capitalism at all cost (and boy did it cost, apparently*). Manchin's rich so he must be smart, and he certainly won't have problems attracting corporate dark money, A model for the future? I mean, is it about principles or about blues beating the reds like the blues and greens of Ancient Rome?

, I hope.

The Democrats' response after the defeats of McGovern and Mondale was to move further to the right and become more like the GOP. It's one of the reasons that the GOP hates the Clintons so much: they encroached on the GOP's turf. This time you might have to toss a bunch more Jesus into the mix as well. Will history repeat? Has history ended? Could Democrats ever convince the media and internet of their sincerity if they did move right? And who would bother to show up to vote if all that happened? So many questions.

__________________________________________
* Not passing a Child Tax Credit, or something like it, seems to have REALLY stuck in the craw of the working class and underemployed lumpen. I thought it would have been the minimum wage thing (which did too, but it seems not nearly to the degree), so I'm a bit surprised. Perhaps someone on Trump's team knew what they were doing when it got included on his agenda.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

75. Sounds like a bunch of Republican talking points. Are people not concerned about Trumps nominees??!!

I agree being depressed and giving up is not the way to go but it is anger and fighting back that we need to do.

[GreenWave]

76. Some prefer to mock muslims who voted for Trump, no thought of bringing them back.

A bit tent requires many factors.

[Charmin One]

89. There is little we can do for almost 2 years

We are just about powerless

[John Shaft]

96. Sounds about white

I avoid all that, too much potential to get gang-bullied on this site.

[uponit7771]

77. Trump enter's office with more power than Hitler did when he became Chancellor, let's be prepared versus scared

[Schlocko]

80. Honest question: why does this feel so much worse?

In this century alone, America has been attacked by terrorists, started a war under a false pretext, endured an economic collapse, and lost hundreds of thousands of people in a pandemic. So why is the sky only starting to fall now?

Maybe it’s the wait for Inauguration Day that’s exacerbating our sense of dread. But at least we got a warning this time.

[FarPoint]

81. I agree .

To be honest I only come in and take a quick peek...then leave Similar to avoiding Legacy media ...

I myself feel this just is not over ..

[Ojerly]

83. I'm not feeling Doom. I'm Pissed off.

Pissed off that the Democrats are pointing fingers at each other. Pissed off that they didn't fight like we do. Pissed off that, still to this day, the misogyny is ingrained deep in the voters. Pissed off that the voters would willingly elect a P.O.S. because gas and eggs cost more than before. Pissed off that people no longer have common sense, and believe social media is a good source of information.
Yes I'm pissed off but even at 68 I'm going to fight back just like it was 1972 all over again. I suggest that all of you get PISSED OFF too.

[GP6971]

88. Whoa Sunshine!!! Time to take a break

and enjoy a DU Pizza!!

[Sympthsical]

93. The defeatism doesn't bother nearly as much as the rapid spread of misinformation

After an election that should've proved that consuming media whose entire business model is telling us what we want to hear is not great, people are doubling down. "Inject what I want to hear directly into my veins!"

Not even cursory fact checking. No questioning. Not even an eyebrow raise at claims and assertions that can't even pass a common sense check. And no matter how many corrections are posted, it just keeps chugging along. Just go all in at every random bit of internet conspiracy throw up that hits the floor.

And then there's an unironic, "The problem with voters is they can't tell misinformation from fact!" Uh huh. Weird how people do that, isn't it?

And thing is - the worst part for me - is that it dumps fuel on the fire for voters who have "both sides" attitudes and start tuning everything out. If this stuff gets a foothold and we get four years of election conspiracies, it will be tougher for us to criticize Republicans for their election conspiracies. We're draining our credibility in real time. And for what? Just one more hit of that sweet black tar belief?

It hardly feels worth it. Seems more like self-harm to relieve displaced emotional pain. Which, you know, generally not smiled upon behavior.

[GreenEyedLefty]

102. My personal form of resistance

If you will, is tuning out the news. Thanks to the powerful computer in my hand I can seek it out when I want to, but I'm no longer passively taking in the world as corporations want us to see it.

Also when I am ready I will participate in my local Democratic club. This has been the most effective way to talk to local and state politicians, by far.