I've been listening to a book called "Men Who Hate Women" on audible

[milestogo]

It was free.

So the chapters include men who: hate women, prey on women, avoid women, blame women, hound women, hurt women, etc.

One of the early chapters talks about the "incel" movement which started with a website. It was started by a female in Canada who was lonely and looking for a partner, so she created a space for unattached males and females to talk about it. Eventually it morphed into something she no longer recognized- a space for angry young men without the social skills to attract a woman.

A lot of of the book is repetitive, but it makes the point that huge social waves can be generated on the internet. There are a lot of people who do not interact with anyone in real life, so the conversations they have on the internet are amplified. The "hate" comes from a sense that women have somehow stolen power from men. As a woman this seems ridiculous to me, but I think I am starting to understand the thinking.

Men used to initiate sex, and women generally did not. The fact that women have the right to say no to sex has somehow been interpreted to mean that women control sex.

Men used to say and do whatever they wanted to women in the workplace. It has taken a long time for women to be taken seriously and even now, the results of reporting harassment are not always good for the victim. Women who report can be fired, demoted, or slandered. Now that women have recourse some men believe that their careers are endangered. They worry about being falsely accused, and losing their jobs and reputations. I think the reaction is much worse than the reality, but this is what some men think.

More women are reporting sexual assault. Some men, rightly or wrongly, fear that they are going to be wrongly accused. So they see women as all-powerful enemies who deserve to be punished.

Its hard for me to wrap my head around some of this, but I've had conversations with men who said things along these lines. Its like we see the world in totally opposing ways.

[Walleye]

1. Poor little butt-hurt boys, are they afraid that women will beat them or kill them. Because that's what we're afraid

Men will do. And they do it. I can’t even really acknowledge their hurt feelings. I have put up with so much harassment in the workplace. I worked in a male dominated field. You just learned to let it bounce off of you. What is it? Boys have to behave themselves? That’s so tough.

[cachukis]

4. C students don't see anything wrong with C students.

[Walleye]

5. I am blaming this whole attitude on poor upbringing

[cachukis]

8. Years ago I went through a long mental study on

how elections work. My thought was we should choose the best candidate.
I discovered the candidate had little to do with the vote. It was the electorate voting for their world view.
As a now retired teacher, I studied the lives of my students. Once they became post pubescent, they were set as clay. Their world view was established.
If an arm was broken, it could be mended or repaired, but that piece of clay had its world view modified by the healer.
Everyone in this world is self taught. Some take this to heart while most lapse into the path of least resistance that becomes their comfort zone.
Most voters know little to nothing about how their vote affects their own lives. They see it through the eyes of their educators, today, mostly peer groups.
We are lucky our peer group supports transformation to a better society. Another peer group prefers a transactional approach to show their evolutionary strength.
I put our country's leadership on the voters. There are transformative leaders and transactional leaders.
Capitalism is the art of the transaction. I did not want to say the d word.
We live in the big eats small dynamic.
While still teaching, I saw the young women out performing the young men by leaps and bounds. I sensed a resentment that is always expressed by those unable to find a way forward.
While some of that resentment was aimed at the woman candidate, it mattered not who she was, it was the resentment. It was the world view.
When you put up Tester and Brown and they lose to creeps, it is not the candidate. It is the voter.
Until we raise better voters, we have to live with how the majority elects.
Upbringing.

[valleyrogue]

20. Yep. You can't change them. There is no point in people talking about trying

to get their votes..

[Ocelot II]

2. Thanks, I just added it to my Audible library.

[BigMin28]

3. The advent

Of DNA to definitively prove paternity doesn't sit well with some men. Add that to the list. I've heard it.

[milestogo]

6. Used to be that men didn't have to take responsibility.

Just say it must be somebody else's kid. Now you're on the hook for 18 years.

[chowder66]

7. These men need coping skills.

That would help a lot of them. They may even have some but they are either unaware of them or don’t know how to tap into them when needed. Therapy is a great way to discover these skills especially if you start with letting a therapist know this is your goal (to develop or expand your coping skills). Once they exercise them, their lives will become calmer, more enjoyable and it would most likely result in better socialization. A decent psychologist (or psychiatrist if medication is necessary) can help people discover new ways to move through life’s challenges.

[Irish_Dem]

9. As s therapist I used to joke that I was going to start a therapy boot camp for males.

To teach men basic social and relationship skills and it would be a like a military boot camp.
I would have a little bullhorn and shout at them for the first couple of weeks until they started
acting like civilized human beings.

Actually I liked working with men in therapy.
Their needs and wants are fairly simple, and they are a lot less nuanced and complicated than women.

Of course as a female therapist I liked working with women too.
I am wired and socialized like they are.

[chowder66]

10. If only!!

The biggest hurdle is just getting some men to not be afraid of therapy. It’s just healthcare and education that can have a great effect on quality of life.

[Irish_Dem]

11. Actually I think that some men like therapy once they enter the process.

They like someone doing hard talking and reality testing.
And getting advice on how to navigate the world in a safe environment.

Some of the men actually wanted a female therapist.
They didn't want to get into a competitive contest with a male therapist.

And it was fascinating from a therapist point of view.
Entering the world of the male psyche is like visiting a foreign country.

[chowder66]

21. Yes! I know some who really liked it and benefited from it.

That's why I said "some" ....but I've also known more who scoff at the idea. Those are the ones I'm referring to.

Thank you for doing the work you do. It's important work.

[Martin68]

12. Conservatives always blame the system or a particular group of people for whatever problems they have in life.

Conservative men who lack the social skills to initiate, establish, and continue a relationship with a woman blame women for their failures. Conservative men who lack the education, skills, and ability to find a good job and keep that job long enough to be promoted blame immigrants minorities, or women for their failures.

[milestogo]

13. Exactly.

Perpetual immaturity.

[The Madcap]

14. I think part of it is

Our "win at all costs" society. Let's face it...not everyone is going to win all the time. We have become a society where one loss makes you a "loser." I think that's at the root of it, but going the opposite direction where everyone wins makes winning a consolation prize.

When relationships and dating are conquests to be won, there are going to be lots of losers. I have been there like most of us.

[multigraincracker]

15. Lots of labels tossed around.

I’m an old,75, Straight against Hate, Feminist
, pinkish gray guy.
Most of my close friends are females and lots of them lesbian. Took a lifetime to get here and that’s the mold I fit. Those that judge me by my cover have to adjust. It takes time and an open mind. I try to have both.
So read the book before you judge.
I have my faults, most from my ADHD and PTSD from childhood trauma. Just more chapters in the book.

[txwhitedove]

16. Thanks for heads up. Book now on my library list.

[spooky3]

17. Change is hard for most, and if you have power you

Don’t have to change how you treat others. That’s one reason those with power do not want to lose it.

[GenThePerservering]

18. I think it's a giant temper tantrum

Because men now have to earn what used to be automatically given: respect.

[Hope22]

19. They take a page out of the T playbook.

Intimidate women and take their power for years and then point their fingers at the women and say they are stealing men’s power. I’m so old I remember if someone had to be laid off, a man or woman, they chose the woman because the man had a family and had bills to pay. The woman could live off of her husband anyway. We Can’t steal it if it wasn’t yours to begin with! Sorry, not sorry!