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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAny Garland Defenders Watching Rachel
Witnesses watching Gaetz having sex with the 17 year old, plus the 17 year old testified under oath that Gaetz had sex with her when she was 17.
We are supposed to believe that the witnesses weren’t reliable. Give me a fucking break, Garland is complicit.
CREW is suing to get Garland to turn over the investigation file of Gaetz.
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qazplm135
(7,629 posts)He's just ridiculously conservative and tentative in everything he does.
He's a fine choice pre 16 but a horrible one in the Age of Trump
brush
(58,980 posts)jailed. He's gotten away with his many crimes, 34 felonies he was convicted of, the MAL stolen docs case, the Georgia case, J6 case, all will be erased by his AG come Jan. 20, 2025.
Great job, Garland 
H2O Man
(76,200 posts)cannot be overturned by the president or his AG.
brush
(58,980 posts)The pressure on that judge to not move must be tremendous...possible thteats of bodily harm too.
H2O Man
(76,200 posts)And remember the maga cult members point fingers of rage at the judge's daughter.
What I suspect is that the sociopath's legal team will get the state convictions before the USSC. And the court has been corrupted.
LudwigPastorius
(11,737 posts)would probably let Trump defer serving his sentence until out of office.
UniqueUserName
(324 posts)I live in a very red part of the country. In my county Trump got 79% of the vote. In the general election, I only voted in two races, the presidential race and the House race (for the Democrat, of course). I voted in the Republican primary because that is where all local representation will be decided. I've been seeing someone for about a year---a dedicated Democrat. I tried to convince him to vote in the Republican primary to keep out the super crazy MAGAts. Fortunately, the lesser cray 'publicons won. Understand that ALL of the local races were Republican candidates running unopposed.
I only mention voting in the Republican primary for reference on how red the area is. (Please don't say I should've run to oppose a republican as a Democrat. This area will not knowingly vote for a gay candidate).
At this point, I can't even argue with the local opposition because I would have to acknowledge reality. Biden, Harris, well, all of the Democratic leadership, has signaled that we are to accept the election, oppose the R ideology, and do better in the upcoming elections (2024, 2028, etc.)
Although the MSM sane-washed Trump and gave him much more airtime, Democrats successfully messaged to me that this was an existential election. We were voting to continue democracy itself. With this less than enthusiastic pushback, I don't have an effective comeback to, "The prosecutions against Trump were largely political. If the various alphabet agencies of the government (FBI, CIA, DOJ, etc.) thought that the documents held at Maralago were damaging to national security, why didn't they act with more urgency? Why did the Democrats rollover and surrender?" You can imagine that one or two bad actors might exist, but NOONE in the entire government with knowledge thought the country worth saving?
=======
Devil's advocate cap off: I am truly puzzled. I feel like I'm quantum-entangled into several timelines here --- That fairly soon actual observations will be made and it will be clearer to me which timeline I am in.
1) It was just politics. If that's the case, I'm probably finished with participation other than voting.
2) It really is dire. Biden, et. al, are doing what they think will cause the least destruction. The country is lost and they don't see a point in having a violent civil war.
3) It really is dire. Biden, et. al., are keeping the powder dry. There will be major surprise actions that will be unprecedented that will happen around some of key dates (certification of electoral college, swearing in of new congress, registering the electoral college results on Jan 6, swearing in the president, also how Congress signals it's going to handle the debt ceiling coming in effect Jan. 2)
4) It really is dire. But no one opposed to dictatorship knows what to do.
I think Trump successfully acted as if his legitimate concern was for the country. Citizens believed his worried delivery. His only good acting skill was convincing them he was concerned for THEIR outcomes when he was really concerned about his. His desperation was real. He channeled it to fool his voters that his concern for them. ---Plus a lot of misogyny and racism.
Irish_Dem
(64,742 posts)Especially since more evidence about various crimes and criminals keep coming to light.
Garland is in all of this up to his neck.
And he doesn't even appear to have one ounce of shame.
paleotn
(19,979 posts)Don't give me that bullshit.
milestogo
(19,622 posts)gab13by13
(26,665 posts)Response to milestogo (Reply #2)
radical noodle This message was self-deleted by its author.
Clouds Passing
(3,843 posts)dchill
(41,426 posts)Baron2024
(1,236 posts)And now we all have to suffer. Trump should have already been prosecuted and convicted over the January 6th Insurrection. It is squarely Garland's fault. He is a joke, and a bad joke at that.
hadEnuf
(2,977 posts)Garland has been a beached whale since taking office. Oh wait, he threw a bunch of sewer trash in jail while the ring leaders regrouped.
Garland is so wrapped up in trying to look non-partisan that he fails to see that the partisan GOP hates his guts too.
BigMin28
(1,603 posts)prosecuted were charged with BS charges. Had any other group attacked the Capitol, the charges would have been the most severe. After the bloodbath, of course. You've got to cut the head off the snake to kill it. Garland should have started at the top.
dsc
(52,805 posts)there would be two big problems with the case, that may, or may not, have been insurmountable. One is that the victim was 17 which means that in many states his conduct would be legal (though not in FL). The second problem is that all the witnesses were people who had done illegal acts. I still think a case should have been brought but it was hardly a slam dunk, especially if the jury pool would have been largely his constituents.
BigMin28
(1,603 posts)Than to just give up. And here we are.
Bluethroughu
(6,957 posts)17 years old is close to 16, close 15, close to...
They were under age of consent. If a Congressman was giving my 17 year old drugs, liquor, money, and sex....I would have done the citizens arrest myself. 
speak easy
(11,234 posts)Bluethroughu
(6,957 posts)gab13by13
(26,665 posts)to get it to release the investigation file on Gaetz.
Sex trafficking of a minor is a felony case.
speak easy
(11,234 posts)Yes it is.
But to establish it you need the testimony of Joel Greenberg, a not so reliable witness.
He pleaded guilty to six federal crimes, including identity theft, stalking, wire fraud and conspiracy to bribe a public official. Prosecutors said he paid at least one girl to have sex with him and other men.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joel-greenberg-sentenced-sex-crimes-freind-matt-gaetz/
atreides1
(16,534 posts)Why is Greenberg a not so reliable witness, say compared to organized crime killers who testified against their bosses, or jail house rats who provide information to investigators?
uponit7771
(92,448 posts)brush
(58,980 posts)
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)I'm not sure what happened in this case.
speak easy
(11,234 posts)The person who could establish that Gaetz knew she was trafficked was Joel Greenberg a criminal who ran a prostitution service. The DOJ apparently considered him to be an unreliable witness. The case is not clear cut.
He pleaded guilty to six federal crimes, including identity theft, stalking, wire fraud and conspiracy to bribe a public official. Prosecutors said he paid at least one girl to have sex with him and other men.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joel-greenberg-sentenced-sex-crimes-freind-matt-gaetz/
Even if Gaetz could be pinned down on paying the Girl for sex (not a Federal offence, his defense would be that he had no reason to believe the girl was a minor
JMCKUSICK
(1,066 posts)speak easy
(11,234 posts)The person who could establish that Gaetz knew she was trafficked was Joel Greenberg a criminal who ran a prostitution service. The DOJ apparently considered him to be an unreliable witness. The case is not clear cut.
He pleaded guilty to six federal crimes, including identity theft, stalking, wire fraud and conspiracy to bribe a public official. Prosecutors said he paid at least one girl to have sex with him and other men.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joel-greenberg-sentenced-sex-crimes-freind-matt-gaetz/
Even if Gaetz could be pinned down on paying the Girl for sex (not a Federal offence, his defense would be that he had no reason to believe the girl was a minor or coerced.
Irish_Dem
(64,742 posts)This is how the system works.
People without a criminal background don't hang around with criminals.
So they are not the ones testifying.
So the second excuse you make for Garland is not legitimate.
Everyone in DC knows of Gaetz's sordid and illegal behavior.
There are many witnesses.
And they know that he is quite dangerous.
Garland couldn't be bothered to protect the public.
gordianot
(15,552 posts)When all is said and done Comey should take the heat for Debacle 1and clearly Garland for debacle number 2.
Dave says
(5,038 posts)gab13by13
(26,665 posts)of course I blame Garland, he is at the top of my list for TSF being able to run for office.
Also, who else in Trump's inner circle did Garland indict? Some states are trying to prosecute a few, but when the J6 select committee sent criminal referrals to Garland for Mark Meadows and Ken Chesbro, he shit canned them.
usonian
(16,120 posts)I think a similar one was whacked, perhaps for promoting this:
https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-state?r=d569l&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true
Disclaimer: I neither endorse nor deride the article.
gab13by13
(26,665 posts)You certainly did deride my thread so now I ask you politely to tell me what I posted that is not factual?
The ball is in your court, explain to me why my thread should be deleted?
Garland allowed Hunter Biden to be investigated on a bogus Russian hoax perpetrated by Rudy Giuliani. Hunter Biden was prosecuted under Barr and garland for 5 years but druggie, sex trafficker Matt Gaetz was more believable than numerous witnesses, including the victim.
usonian
(16,120 posts)Uncle Leo defense.
I was referencing a deleted thread, so I was working from memory, which has its flaws.
I *believe* that it included the link to "servants of the mafia" substack. I have no way of vetting that substack post, so I posted the disclaimer on it.
I open links in a new tab, and there was the substack post, with the now-deleted OP in the adjoining tab.
And I concluded that the criticism in the substack OP was beyond DU rules. I COULD BE WRONG.
If the similarity is in calling out Garland, that's what I concluded. I never call posters out. My rules. I might send a DM instead, so no criticism of your OP was intended.
As with all my posts, corrections are welcome. And if I post something that confuses people, I delete it.
I really just wanted to post a link to the substack post in case it was obliterated. And the disclaimer says to "judge it yourself"
I thought that your OP might be deleted for the same reasons, and saved it. Quite the opposite of asking it to be deleted.
And if my post is misconstrued or confusing, I'll gladly delete it. On Hacker News, after a short time, one can't edit or delete a post.
Takket
(22,900 posts)but i recall being outraged at the time they did not prosecute and i thought someone on DU said that Gaetz friend (forget his name) was unreliable because he had a ton of legal issues of his own, but that the real problem was the victim refused to testify, and there was no case without her. Not that she was "unreliable". Though I don't know why she would testify to congress but not the court????
Bluethroughu
(6,957 posts)Gaetz was said to be doing with him...no gaetz though.
Tribetime
(6,424 posts).
Evolve Dammit
(20,144 posts)
NotHardly
(1,696 posts)
0rganism
(24,875 posts)17-year-olds cannot legally consent
kerry-is-my-prez
(9,600 posts)
Fiendish Thingy
(19,023 posts)Like moths to a flame…
gab13by13
(26,665 posts)Matt Gaetz. Greenberg was his partner in sex capades, but his daddy wasn't a judge and when Greenberg pleaded guilty and turned state's evidence on Gaetz he immediately became an unreliable witness, how convenient. There were more witnesses than Greenberg who watched Gaetz rape the 17 year on a gaming table.
You bet it is rinse, lather, and repeat with Garland, it's sickening.
The 17 year old's lawyer was on Rachel tonight, I should get the segment and copy it here but I'm going to bed, good night.
Scrivener7
(54,224 posts)hands and pretend nothing is happening.
Repeat.
And repeat.
And repeat.
Ad infinitum. Ad nauseam.
Then watch as those who are saying, "Do SOMETHING" are told nothing is wrong by people who, in their hearts, know there is something desperately wrong but who simply can't admit it.
Fiendish Thingy
(19,023 posts)Over and Over and Over again.
But they were thwarted by the kind of due process hundreds of millions in legal fees and being a former president making claims of Executive Privilege can buy, thwarted by Roberts and the MAGA court, and ultimately, by the voters.
Garland isn’t the villain of this story.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219707013
While I’m not that surprised at threads scapegoating Garland (low hanging fruit), I continue to be astonished at the almost complete absence of threads taking Roberts and the Trump SCOTUS to task. Aside from the initial reaction to the immunity ruling, there has been none.
Until/unless we approach something resembling a shared sense of reality, the simplistic circular firing squad will continue, and nothing will be learned from the 2024 election to prepare us for the challenges ahead because, hey, it’s all Milquetoast Merrick’s fault, so what can you do?
Scrivener7
(54,224 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(19,023 posts)It may require you to stop shaking your head for a moment.
You may think I’m defending Garland, the man, but I’m actually defending verifiable reality.
Scrivener7
(54,224 posts)The fact that you wrote a post about verifiable reality doesn't change the fact that you are insisting on a fantasy that is in direct opposition to verifiable reality.
But I know, I know. Emptywheel says. And shit about grasshoppers, and I should get a job at the DOJ.
It's over now. And you were wrong.
Fiendish Thingy
(19,023 posts)Trump got away with crimes because Garland dragged his feet/was too weak/was too slow/refused to investigate and prosecute Trump
Reality:
It is indeed a fact that, so far, Trump has escaped any consequences for his crimes.
However, hollding Garland to blame for this is not based in evidence or fact. The claims of “dragged his feet/too weak/too slow/refused” are subjective opinions not supported by the public record and available evidence.
The facts, including those in the famous, but incomplete report by the WaPo, show that a preliminary investigation was launched before Garland was sworn in, and a formal investigation with dedicated staff and resources was launched, despite resistance and obstruction by career staff at DOJ and FBI in June 2021.
As the investigation progressed it encountered resistance and obstruction in the form of Executive Privilege claims and attorney/client privilege claims, which Garland, and then Smith, was eventually able to overcome in court, but the timeline of the court rulings was in the hands of the judiciary, not Garland, Smith and the DOJ.
Myth:
If Garland had only gotten Trump convicted before the election, a second Trump term would have been prevented
Reality:
Once indicted, the timeline of Trump’s trials was in the hands of the judiciary, including all appeals, including immunity, to the Supreme Court. A non-MAGA court would almost certainly have moved more quickly, and would possibly have ruled against immunity, and yet…
Even if Trump had been indicted, tried, convicted, sentenced and incarcerated on January 21, 2021, of all the crimes he was eventually charged with, those convictions would still not have prevented Trump from running for and serving a second term, as the bipartisan SCOTUS ruling in the Colorado case affirmed that only a conviction of the federal crime of insurrection, which Trump was never indicted for, or a congressional resolution, would have disqualified Trump under the 14th amendment and prevented him from serving a second term.
Now, some might say “if Trump was convicted and incarcerated, no way could he have won a second term!”, but that is merely a speculative opinion, not an evidence based fact. In fact, the available evidence tends to refute that opinion, because Trump was elected with the public knowing he was a convicted felon with a history of sexual assault. In any case, the answer will never be known.
Scapegoating Garland is just a way to avoid the painful emotions of the stark reality we now find ourselves in, and a diversion from the challenges that lie ahead, and which will require us to unite in a shared reality in order to be most effective.
Scrivener7
(54,224 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(19,023 posts)Unless reality disagrees.
But, regardless of reality, you are free to believe what you wish, just as millions do, and did in the lead up to this election.
Trueblue1968
(18,381 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2024, 11:27 PM - Edit history (1)
He could have nailed Trump and evil POS Repukes !!!!!! He could have saved our country.
Joe should have fired garlands slow as molasses do nothing ass.
rubbersole
(9,405 posts)Kaleva
(38,941 posts)It doesn't matter what we think of Garland. The only opinion that matters is Biden's.
Jit423
(965 posts)Damn if only one the SCOTUS Trump appointments would leave for. I would love to see Kamala as a SOTUS Justice.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)to him and get all emotional and protective and don't even even see him there.
It is ridiculous!
Response to gab13by13 (Original post)
Post removed
gab13by13
(26,665 posts)
AllyCat
(17,534 posts)Assaulting a minor!!!
Kaleva
(38,941 posts)Has anyone called the WH to find out?
kansasobama
(1,647 posts)About the bomb threats in swing states that could have turned many voters away. Not a word.
returnee
(431 posts)…is also a big factor. A favorable ruling would have led to a landslide of coattail filings by other States.
Evolve Dammit
(20,144 posts)orangecrush
(23,298 posts)Justice seems to have a weird coincidental failure rate, going all the way back to Mueller.
republianmushroom
(18,794 posts)Enough said.
Snarkoleptic
(6,089 posts)They protect their own above all other duties.
Is there an oath or affirmation that Federalist Society member swear?
If so, how does that intersect with public service vs. the impending broligarchy.
czarjak
(12,664 posts)There's A-L-W-A-Y-S an oath of allegiance between rich white-boys and their secret societies. W said it was so secret, he couldn't even talk about it. With a straight face too.