Please don't spread Spoonamore hoax

[creeksneakers2]

I usually debunk right wing frauds but this time I want to debunk a left wing one, the latest nonsense from some guy named Steven Spoonamore that the 2024 election was hacked and stolen. His claims have gone viral, including a link to something called " Duty to Warn Letter - to VP Harris - Re: Election 2024."
I take pride in the fact that my side engages in far fewer kook conspiracy theories and accepts the will of the people without trying Fascist coup attempts. And I love to point fingers at righties for doing those things and don't want next time to end up with them pointing fingers back and saying: "Your guys do it too." Spreading misinformation would hurt our side.

My debunking is at this link: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/11/20/2287695/-Election-fraud-hoax-by-the-left?_=2024-11-20T19:59:39.000-08:00

[Skittles]

1. easy to see why people are so susceptible to such claims

it is deeply disturbing and hard to understand why so many Americans are embracing fascism

[creeksneakers2]

2. Yes. A great many people choose what they believe by

choosing what they WANT to believe rather than weighing facts, evidence and logic. Many shady people use the Internet to take advantage of those who can be fooled that way.

[Skittles]

4. repukes are easily manipulated

they worry about Soros and trans folk while dismissing climate change and the war on women

[wryter2000]

5. And...

Polls said nothing about who would win. Plus, all other indicators suggested Harris would win. I’m in favor of doing all reasonable inquiries. After that, let it go.

[creeksneakers2]

7. Not that easy to inquire

Unless its really close if you want a recount you have to pay for it. Some lady told me she suspected fake voters. I told her the lists of people who voted are public and to have at it. Really doubt she would find anything. Don't know what else can be reasonaby done.

[Skittles]

8. problem is, none of it would make any difference

FASCISM won. America lost.

[creeksneakers2]

10. Absolutely! And lies work!

[Sympthsical]

3. He's attacking Harris now

It's really a shame to see his material get repeatedly posted (and highly recommended) on DU the way it has.

It's a poison pill. And people are asking for water to help swallow it.

[Miami Blue]

6. It happened in Florida

https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=the%20guardian%20hundred%20of%20thousands%20of%20ballots%20in%20florida%20were%20rejected&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5

[creeksneakers2]

9. Yep. Lots of voter suppression going on

That's not fraud though and its not a hoax. Here in PA they are getting away with tossing out mail in votes that arrive without a date on the outer envelope, even if they arrive by election day and there is no doubt they were legitimate votes. The crooked US Supreme Court is letting them get away with it and it may make the difference between Senator Bob Casey winning or a complete jerk winning. Just awful.

Not what I was talking about in my OP though.

[radius777]

17. +1. Voter suppression is the real issue,

we don't need conspiracy theories to see how the R's have been rigging the game. The RW Supreme Court allows them to, has since 2000 when they helped W win. Those are legitimate issues. But election conspiracy theories on the left only make us look bad, as it allows the media to say that 'both sides' do it.

[creeksneakers2]

18. Exactly!

And with the GOP in firm control of all three branches and a dictatorship at the top its going to get far worse.

[Silent Type]

11. I'll believe Spoon when Biden, Harris, etc., say vote result appear bogus.

[creeksneakers2]

12. I'll believe that if they have evidence.

Spoonamore is not evidence.

[MFM008]

13. How could our side

Be any more damaged?

[creeksneakers2]

15. By having the media doubt our future claims

like they do for Trump''s. I want our voters to trust us too. Lying to them hurts that. Lots of ways these things hurt.

[FoxNewsSucks]

14. Yes, by all means, let's take republicon's word for everything.

Because they would never lie, cheat, manipulate or steal anything.

Right?

They've been cheating since 2000 and before. They've only honed their ability to cover it up. Who is naive enough to think they stopped???

[creeksneakers2]

16. I'd be glad to look at any evidence you have.

Tons of ways they cheat. What I'm talking about isn't one of them.

[carpetbagger]

24. I'm taking the words of Democrats here.

Our elections monitors, our elections officials and chiefs, Democratic governors in MI, WI, PA, AZ, NC.

There's no deus ex machina here.

[Blue Full Moon]

19. Computer security expert not just some guy.

[creeksneakers2]

20. No reason to recognize the credentials

of a con artist.

[LauraInLA]

22. I'm not sure he's an actual computer security expert -- he calls himself a "computer security expert."

[stopdiggin]

29. there's thousands of those in this country

and 1 guy that has made a 20 year career out of peddling this .... Basically innuendo and junk science.

Curious how the rest of the people in this field are not rushing in to bolster and confirm ...

[Mountain Mule]

21. I don't know what to think anymore

The Republicans have proven that they will stop at nothing to gain and remain in power. Low information voters only care about the price of eggs, making sure that xenophobia becomes the national policy, and putting gay and trans people in their place. I'm pretty sure that there were any number of irregularities in the election, but how widespread they were, I don't know. A recount of at least the swing states would make me and a lot of other people around here feel better but I guess that's not in the cards.

[garybeck]

23. Sorry but your critique of Spoonamore has as many holes as his letter.

With all due respect, It says at the beginning that the article is not subject to review by The Daily Kos staff.

You talks about only being able to get the vote totals by opening up the back of the machine. DREs are pretty much extinct (see verifiedvoting.org) . You talk about having to have physical contact with machines in order to manipulate them and fail to recognize the most important vulnerability of the machines which is the memory cards. Spoonemore mentions this specifically and you ignore it

We should all be skeptical but we should also be objective and open-minded.

I'm my opinion your critique of spoonamore is no better than spoonamores letter itself

Science is being Objective, Skeptical, Open minded

[pnwmom]

25. Spoonamore isn't the only computer expert calling for a recount. There is also the group of computer security experts

who have signed a letter describing breaches in election system software that were brought to light in 2022 and never addressed.

After describing the breaches, it concludes:

The facts around the voting system breaches are not disputed; it is well documented that there were severe, multiple voting security breaches before the 2024 election. To ensure that voters can have confidence that the breaches in security did not taint the results of the 2024 election, we recommend pursuing hand recounts in, at minimum, Michigan, Nevada, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania as they will provide insufficient safeguards against threats posed by the breaches of the election software and will not provide important information in a timely way.

Thank you for your time and consideration of this important matter.

Sincerely,
Duncan Buell Ph.D.
Chair Emeritus — NCR Chair in Computer Science and Engineering
Dept. of Computer Science and Engineering
University of South Carolina*

David Jefferson Ph.D.
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory* (retired)
Election Integrity Foundation*

Susan Greenhalgh
Senior Advisor for Election Security
Free Speech For People

Chris Klaus
Founder
Internet Security System*

William John Malik
Malik Consulting, LLC*

Marilyn Marks
Executive Director
Coalition for Good Governance

Peter G. Neumann Ph.D.
Chief Scientist,
SRI International Computer Science Lab*

John E. Savage
An Wang Professor Emeritus of Computer Science
Brown University*

https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324-1.pdf

[garybeck]

26. Yes thank you. This article calling spoon a hoax is not objective.

[creeksneakers2]

28. What makes you say that?

Did he not lie about the bullet ballots?

Is it not impossible to hack a voting machine if its air locked and you don't have physical access to it?

If real voters were being impersonated wouldn't some of the impersonated voters also show up to vote?

What is not objective about these things? They look like solid facts to me.

[Mountain Mule]

27. Thank you for this!

There should be a recount in the swing states at the very least, but our leadership is failing us in that regard.

[creeksneakers2]

32. Please don't blame them.

I doubt they could get recounts if they tried.

[creeksneakers2]

31. I was quite worried about this

Trumpsters were caught breaking into voting machines eight times and photographing They said they were looking to prove fraud rather than commit it, but of course I don't trust them. Fortunately, others knew this and I'm pretty sure some precautions were taken to prevent them from gaining access to the machines. Without access they could not be hacked.

If the entire systems were rigged I'm pretty sure they would not have gotten away with it. The machines are tested prior to elections. Also, the differences would have shown up in exit polls. Those polls showed serious problems for Harris that explain her loss.

Your letter states: "We have no evidence that the outcomes of the elections in those
states were actually compromised as a result of the security breaches, and we are
not suggesting that they were." I think before you can get a hand recount you needs some evidence. Generally, recounts are limited to races where the results are very close. When they aren't a candidate that wants the recount has to pay for it . The Trumpsters would go wild if one was requested and would swear up and down we were trying to steal the election. It would not be pretty, and we'd probably lose. Even if we won its very unlikely we'd find anything. Cheating is not really possible.

I understand why after the break ins we should be suspicious. I don't see a winning remedy for it though.

[pnwmom]

34. All the evidence you need is that the breaches did occur. They had the opportunity. And the remedy is simple.

Knowing everything we know about their efforts at voter suppression, and their actual breaches of the voting machines by Trump people, it would be nuts just to trust that nothing happened.

It would have been perfectly possible, as Spoonamore explained, to write software designed to only change results on the day of the election and return to normal afterwards.

The only way to be certain is to do a partial hand recount in the states listed by Prof. Buell.. If serious discrepancies are found, then recount everything in those states.

[DET]

35. Thank You

This is so obvious to me. They stole 2016, they tried to steal 2020, and they remedied their deficiencies in 2024 with the help of Elon Musk - the richest man in the world with access to unlimited financial and intellectual resources. The fate of the world literally hangs on this. How can anyone not demand further investigation?

[pnwmom]

36. They spent 4 years training us to defend the 2020 election, then all elections -- even though

circumstances CHANGED with the revelation of the 2022 breaches.

I guess some of us were too well trained.

[Blue Full Moon]

30. There are more than this

An example

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2142428-hacking-a-us-electronic-voting-booth-takes-less-than-90-minutes/

[creeksneakers2]

33. I've seen demonstations of machines being hacked in minutes

But that is when hackers had physical access to the machines. That's not easy to get. They are locked away and have tamper proof seals. Your article says its possible to get into them with wireless technology. My article says it isn't possible: https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.32N26ZV

[pnwmom]

37. They don't need physical access to the machines on the day of the election. They could have tampered with

the coding months or even years before.