IMO Biden really did screw up in pardoning Hunter

[Orrex]

He should have done it the moment the verdict was handed down.

Of course, the path to November looked very different, so I understand why he didn't/couldn't do it at that time, but fuck every single person who now has the nerve to question the President for shielding his son from the predatory hit job orchestrated by the GQP.

Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them.

[kelly1mm]

1. It is not going to end and there is nothing President Biden can do to stop it.

The Republican House and Senate will subpoena Hunter Biden to hearings and ask him under oath about all the alleged business improprieties along with his escapades during his addiction in order to try and besmirch President Biden . He no longer has criminal liability so he cannot (legally) refuse to answer. If he refuses he will be held in contempt of congress and AG Bondi will prosecute. (since that 'crime' will be after the dates covered by the pardon).
If he does answer and he does not 100% tell the truth, AG Bondi will prosecute for lying to congress. (again, since that 'crime' will be after the dates covered by the pardon).

Any objection to a contempt of congress prosecution by Democrats will be blunted as President Biden's DOJ prosecuted Bannon for the same thing.

Hunter Biden and President Biden will not be able to get this behind them until the Republicans have got their pound of flesh, one way of the other.

[Blues Heron]

4. they will just look like they are flogging a dead horse if they go down that idiotic path

they might just try though

[RockRaven]

9. If they cared about not looking like idiots they would do less than half of what

they do do.

[rampartd]

78. look like idiots?

in an ideocracy like trump's america

they can hold a nazi rally at madison square garden and not lose a vote.

looking, to us, like idiots is a "feature."

[Quanta]

12. Contempt is mild

If the court is rotten and corrupted, it is by definition, contemptible. Fuck them. Let's rock. We need to stop being such pearl clutching strategists and just start taking out the hypocritical power-hungry authoritarians. We HAVE TO STOP PLAYING NICE!

[Self Esteem]

55. Tell that to Susan McDougal.

22 months spent in a federal prison is not what I'd call mild (well sentenced to 22, spent 18).

[Walleye]

26. So what, Joe Biden didn't do anything wrong. Republicans said you can't impeach a president after he's out of of offic

[kelly1mm]

65. 1) you certainly can impeach a President after he is out of office. The 2nd President Trump

impeachment was after he was out of office. Even if (as is likely) they find no wrongdoing by President Biden, every trip up to testify in front of some one or another congressional committee fishing expedition cost Hunter Biden somewhere in the neighborhood of 500k. That's even before the DOJ/FBI investigations. That is how lawfare works. It's main objective/benefit (except for the biggest fish) is to bankrupt the targets, not actually get a conviction.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

41. I would sit there and answer every single question "I don't recall. I was pretty messed up back then"

And every answer would take 20 minutes of whispering to my attorney before I say I don’t recall - pull a Leo McGarry

[walkingman]

2. He did the right thing - any decent father would have done the same.

The hypocrisy by the GOP is so in your face.

[Orrex]

7. Yes, that's my point exactly.

When he issued the pardon, he should have repeated his earlier correct observation that Republicans are garbage.

[BootinUp]

3. Biden doesn't care what you or almost anyone else thinks. Does that not

register with all the opinionated people?

He has friends and family and he cares what some of them think.

It was his perogative.

And I hate that Bobby Brown song. lol.

[Orrex]

6. I'm sure he cares what I think as much as I care what you think.

Especially since you seem to have replied to my subject line.

[BootinUp]

8. Yes, yes, you want to have it both ways. Very magnanimous. nt

[Orrex]

10. I get that you didn't read my post before you replied

But did you read your reply before you posted?

[BootinUp]

11. You have a decoder ring for that?

[Orrex]

13. Sure. Follow along with me.

Last edited Tue Dec 3, 2024, 12:16 AM - Edit history (1)

1. I posted in full support of Biden's pardon, admittedly with a twist of a subject line
2. You replied to my subject line without apparently reading the post
3. I pointed this out
4. You tried to gaslight me for your failure to read the post before replying
5. I asked if you bothered to read your own reply before posting it.
6. You again tried to gaslight me for your clumsy attempt to shift blame.
7. I called you out for your gaslighting and for your failure to read before replying.

Clear? If not, then that's a you problem.

[BootinUp]

14. Well, I definitely see it differently. nt

[UniqueUserName]

42. This is your opportunity to explain your reasoning. 6 people have "misunderstood" you

Wouldn't you like to clarify your meaning?

I was one of the 6 who interpreted your exchange as Orrex has explained it.

You say that Orrex is incorrect in assessing your meaning. Please explain what you meant.

I would encourage you to post in response to Orrex as opposed to me. So that Orrex can understand since that person was who your exchange was with. Of course, you aren't obligated to explain anything.

[BootinUp]

43. Hilarious. 5 people who won't say anything?

[BootinUp]

44. I'm busy .

[BootinUp]

47. I would encourage Orrex to restore the original

Title to the Op. and then we can continue, me against a bunch of Orrex defenders gleefully attacking Biden but not really. Wink wink.

[herding cats]

67. The OP has not been edited.

This is public information when you click on the info link at the bottom left of the OP.

[BootinUp]

68. Not true at all. Why do you think you know how the system actually works? I saw the mother fucker get changed.

[Orrex]

70. You have made an accusation at odds with material fact. I did not edit the OP.

Last edited Tue Dec 24, 2024, 04:12 PM - Edit history (1)

I did edit post #13, specifically because I originally typed "you" when I meant to type "your." You can check this for yourself by viewing the edit history.

I shudder to think ponder how the extent to which so grievous an error has cleaerly lessened your enjoyment of DU.

[BootinUp]

71. The OP had the words "fucked up" in there. I don't care how much heavy bold face type you have readyu LOLLOLOL

[Orrex]

73. Ah yes. I apologize. I did indeed make that change.

Curious that it doesn't show in the "edited" history, but you are correct.

I made that edit moments after posting, and before any replies were posted. The body of the post did not change, nor the overall meaning or intent. I simply toned down the subject line with a PG synonym.

What do you suppose would be different if I were to change it back? Please be specific.

[BootinUp]

74. No. There is enough information above for you to understand my complaint already. nt

[Orrex]

75. Classy move, shitting on someone after they've apologized.

I know a tree surgeon who can take care of that stick for you.

[herding cats]

77. Ok, cool.

Whatever you say I wasn't trying to fight with you. I was just pointing out a more than a decade old feature of the site.

[Orrex]

79. In fairness, they were correct about that.

I'd forgotten that I did change the subject line, toning it down to PG language lest someone take umbrage at my too-saucy word choice in regards to the current President. Not the next one, though; he can go fuck himself so hard that he collapses into a singularity.

I was surprised to discover that an edit to the subject line apparently doesn't show up in the "edit history." Honestly never noticed that before.

As for the rest, they really seemed motivated to be super-angry for no good reason, but I'll leave that to them to sort out.

[Straw Man]

5. It was the right thing to do.

The election is over. Throwing his son to the wolves would do nothing to help the Democratic party. Any Republican who is blathering on about the rule of law, etc., is a big fat fucking hypocrite, and everyone knows it except the terminally stupid, i.e. those who chose to return Trump to the White House.

[brush]

15. Don't worry, once the orange turd criminal pardons all the J6 traitors...

it will make it look like the just thing it is.

[kelly1mm]

17. 'Hey man, all the cool kids are doing it .....' nt

[Orrex]

19. Watch the media praise Fuckface47 for "helping to heal the nation" when he pardons the traitors.

[JHB]

16. Noted, logged, ignored

Joe didn't screw up anything on this matter.

[Orrex]

18. Tough room.

I invite the reader to recognize that I posted IN EXPLICIT AND OBVIOUS SUPPORT of President Biden's decision to pardon Hunter.

[Sundance1220]

28. And YOU know that

what would be considered a controversial headline would be the only thing read so perhaps the fault in not wanting to read past that is your own.

[Orrex]

63. If we got rid of all the controversial subject lines...

DU would be an empty front page with a handful of cat-related posts.

Not my fault if someone replies to a subject line without reading further.

[Initech]

20. Fox News is the worst thing that's happened to this country since the Civil War.

None of this shit would even be a thing if that wretched network didn't exist.

[Orrex]

21. Yes, it's absolute poison and highly addictive

I've mentioned before that my job takes me into a dozen or more homes each week, and here in western PA you'll find Fox News airing in many living rooms. But the amazing thing is how people watch it.

If CNN or MSNBC is on, it's a sort of background noise while people go about their day. But if Fox is on, at least one person is parked in front of it, unblinking and hardly moving. I've done more than a few jobs that lasted hours, during which these viewers hardly budged. They just sit there, sucking down the bullshit as fast as Fox can pump it.

It'll make for a fascinating study, if there's anything left of the world in 50 or 60 years.

[Initech]

58. I've said for years that Fox News is like a drug.

And it's rotted almost as many minds as the most powerful drugs put together. If we're to get anywhere, we need to have a serious discussion about the damage that Fox is doing to this country and to the planet.

[IA8IT]

51. Rupert's Rabies epidemic running wild

[EarthAbides]

56. EXACTLY!!!!

I keep hoping for a computer virus that will destroy their network.

[JohnSJ]

22. This is the perfect example why the corporate media is losing viewers. I have blocked CNN, MSNBC, and the other

Cable/Satellite so-called news stations into my house since November 5.

They are not news, but entertainment, if you call that entertainment, and I will not waste any time on their dribble, and I will NOT be watching that junk again. It is a waste of time.

I get my news from newspapers, or local news.

[no_hypocrisy]

23. The classic dilemma of "Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Biden was going to be condemned for the Pardon no matter what.

If Biden hadn't given the Pardon, his son would have been persecuted by the incoming Trump DOJ, "to be made an example of". Vicariously attacking Joe Biden through his son, knowing the burdens Joe has endured with losing his daughter in the car crash and Beau due to cancer. Unthinkable.

Joe Biden took the less of the two evils and spared his son. Sort of a Greek Tragedy.

[Sundance1220]

30. I honestly don't think the pardon itself is the problem

It's that he kept saying he wouldn't do it which, no matter how much respect I have for Pres Biden, makes him a liar. I think everyone with a brain and heart understands the pardon. He shouldn't have lied and that's what has put other Democrats in the bind they are in.

[Solomon]

32. I will never understand for the life of me why someone who changes his mind is then called a liar. Made me check

your post count. Because the right wing has been calling Biden a liar ever since he did it.

Have you ever changed your mind? Did it make you a liar?

[Sundance1220]

33. You can cast doubt on my sincerity all you want

I'm telling you what I'm hearing not only from elected Dems but from my own circle of friends (who are all Dems). He put other Democrats in a huge bind by constantly claiming he wouldn't do it and then did it. This isn't an evolution issue - this was saying one thing just a few months ago and doing something else now. I hear practically nobody trashing the pardon itself, any decent parent would have done the same, it's the lie that's getting ALL the attention. If it makes you feel better to report or ban or whatever happens when someone has trouble with another's opinion around here, have at it. I'm not one to tiptoe around issues.

[NoMoreRepugs]

34. The reality of the situation changed. A Harris administration wasn't going to pursue Hunter to the ends

of the Earth to severely punish him, once the SlobFather won that all charged.

[Sundance1220]

35. Understood

He should have just said he can't predict the future, can't say what future events may unfold. He said, straight out, he would not pardon Hunter. Now other elected Democrats are being asked to pretend that didn't happen and they can't without looking like squirming sycophants.

For Heaven's sake, if the past election has taught us anything it's that Dems are held to an impossible standard while freaking cons are held to NO standard. It's disgusting but that's what is. Be mad at THAT.

[Sundance1220]

49. Agree

And while what he should have done is say "let's see what the situation looks like after the election", he would be fine but it would have hurt VP Harris. Tough situation all around. I 100% agree with his pardon.

[Fish700]

45. A majority of voters just told us they don't care about lying as long as their team wins.

[Sundance1220]

50. That doesn't mean I have to emulate them

I have no desire to copy the behavior of filthy magats.

[LisaL]

24. Who else could Biden pardon that will make GOP mad?

I say, go for it and piss them off. What does he have to lose?

[Vinca]

25. I think Democrats need to chill the fuck out and concentrate on the future. It's pretty much been agreed by retired

federal attorneys that the charges were BS in the first place, so we ought to just let it pass and start looking to 2026. By then enough damage will have been done that we should easily get the House and Senate back. Let MAGA stew over there in crazytown about the pardons. It'll give them something to do.

[jeffreyi]

27. I thought this post made good points.

https://www.meidasplus.com/p/the-big-reason-why-hunters-pardon?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=email

[Orrex]

69. That's a very solid article.

For my part, President Biden chose to pardon him, and that's the end of it.

Every single critic can fuck off, especially those who stood silently by while Trump sold pardons (and medals) to his cronies et al.

[Walleye]

29. At least he wasn't charging $1 million per pardon the way Jared was

Of course that’s just fine with these assholes. As long as you make a ton of money, it’s moral.

[delisen]

31. We have a country to save. and this is a distraction

Biden did the right thing and will be respected for it by tons of MAGA voters who took drugs and said they did not when filling out their gun purchase forms.

[Trekologer]

36. If Republicans have a problem with it they should draft a Constitutional amendment to limit pardon powers

Make it clear that the President cannot pardon themself while they're at it too.

[Clouds Passing]

37. Joe pardoned Hunter. He did it. Can we move on now to fighting the real villain?

[Paladin]

38. Couldn't agree more with you. Fuck them. (nt)

[doc03]

40. I have not heard one person Democrat or Republican even mention President Biden

pardoning Hunter. I don't think anyone cares other the real MAGA crazies. If most people had the
power to pardon their son over some Trumped up witch hunt they would do the same.

[Ninga]

52. Michigan Sen Gary Peters and Colorado Gov Pollis

made very public statements of disapproval

[mvd]

46. It's so ridiculous

This is the President’s son - he’d be a bad father not to - and Hunter was not convicted of serious crimes. Pardons are also at the discretion of the President. Even the Huffington Post has had 3 nonsense pardon articles since the pardon. I wonder if they are going right wing. Never really liked the one author, Delaney.

The President has not been treated right by the mainstream media. Screw them.

[LeftInTX]

48. He sent a strong message by waiting

Right after Patel's nomination.

By waiting, he showed that he trusted the Rule of Law, until it was obvious it was no longer there.

[Ocelot II]

54. Bingo. He realized that Trump's DoJ and FBI would never leave Hunter alone.

There was an op-ed in my morning paper, which I will not link to because it pissed me off so deeply, in which the author stated that Biden disregarded the Rule of Law (as to which concept, see my rant at https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219783695) by choosing his son over his country. WTF? How does pardoning Hunter hurt the country any more than Trump's pardons of all manner of miscreants, with more certainly to come? Like it or not, the Constitutional power of a president to pardon is absolute, and there have been many controversial pardons over the years (Clinton got a lot of blowback for pardoning Marc Rich, an act that seems almost comically inconsequential vs. Trump).

No president has ever pardoned an immediate family member before; but it's never even been an issue before, since no presidential family member has ever before faced ongoing punitive prosecution intended to harm the president himself. The country vs. the son is a false choice. There will be and already is political blowback, as was expected, but actual harm to the country? Any harm arising from inappropriate pardons has been done; that ship has sailed beyond the horizon. Did Joe weigh the very real, anticipated harm to his son against the illusory and largely imaginary harm to the country? Clearly he did, and he chose his son. Hunter wouldn't have been prosecuted as he was if Joe hadn't been president, and certainly Joe wasn't going to throw his son to the wolves so the wolves could have the pound of flesh they couldn't get from Joe himself. How could he have done anything other than what he did and live with himself? Fuck the blowback and fuck the self-righteous blowhards who suddenly believe in a rule of law they never cared about before.

[EarthAbides]

59. Normalizing it all

Sadly pardoning Hunter won't matter once trump is in office, but it was worth Biden to do it. Thinking that pardoning someone is going to make that person safe in our future with trump is normalizing everything trump is doing. No one will be safe once trump is in office... no matter what. None of this is normal, please stop thinking that way...

[Ocelot II]

60. I expect they'll try to ruin Hunter with civil lawsuits if they can't prosecute him criminally.

Maybe nobody is really safe, but at least we shouldn't make it easy for them.

[dpibel]

81. Neil Bush

As Charlie Pierce pointed out today, anyone who is sad about pardoning a clearly guilty family member must remember that George H.W. did just that.

Apropos: "No president has ever pardoned an immediate family member before;"

In point of fact, Neil's crimes were much more serious than Hunter's.

Not trying to be smug or argumentative. We're on the same side.

[Ocelot II]

82. Actually, Bush the Elder did not pardon Neil. Pierce got that wrong.

Neil was an outside director at Silverado, a failed savings and loan association that was investigated by regulators in the 1990s. He was accused of conflicts of interest but he did not face criminal charges. He agreed to help settle a civil case brought by the FDIC as one of a dozen defendants in a negligence suit. Since he was never charged with a crime he did not need pardoning. Here's a list of the people Bush I pardoned; Neil isn't on it. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-george-h-w-bush-1989-1993

[dpibel]

83. Well, damn

I didn't think I needed to fact-check Charlie.

Let that be a lesson to me.

[GreenWave]

53. But the GQP was so set on tormenting Hunter for the next 4 yrs.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

57. I would be upset

if he didn't pardon Hunter.

[marble falls]

61. You left out the fourth "Fuck them", the most important one ...

?si=UfHeLoMkdMOm15DX

[Orrex]

64. Ah, the classics!

[LoisB]

62. He did the right thing. I would think Joe meant it when he said he would not pardon Hunter, thinking that Kamala

would do it when she became President. Unfortunately, that did not happen, so President Biden had no other choice. I wouldn't have left the fate of my child to the Orange Abomination.

[cadoman]

80. under-rated point

If she had won he could have served a bit of time for optics and gotten his pardon.

When the results came out the way they did he was boxed into a corner and had to make a choice. And he chose his son.

I'll miss this amazing Biden family.

[LoisB]

86. I will miss them too. I think the entire country will soon realize what a huge mistake was made in this election.

[Orrex]

87. Half the country already knows it was a catastrophic mistake

The other half will never admit that it was. They'll do whatever they have to do in order to pin the subsequent chaos and hardship on Democrats.

And all the while they will continue to worship the festering orange prolapse as their risen savior.

[Polybius]

66. I think he should have done it in late July or August, then have Harris publicly disagree with him

Hear me out. This way, those who said that they were the same candidate with no policy differences wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. Would it have been enough to win the election? Probably not, but it would likely have helped.

[surfered]

76. He's still a father who already lost one son

[B.See]

85. There's a community article written today

on Dailykos about those who are condemning Biden for Hunter's pardon but didn't post it because it might've been construed as bashing some democrats.

But re. Biden's pardon, I for one am thinking it's about fkng TIME.