CEO killing: They found unshot bullets on the ground where the murder took place

[applegrove]

Post by @thehill

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and a cell phone and a bottle of water in the ally the shooter ran down after he assasinated UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. They caught him on video buying a bottle of water at a Starbucks before. Potential fingerprints and DNA can be found on all these items. I hope the cell phone is his. CNN later says gunman knew certain doors would not be open till 9AM. Shooting happened before 7AM. NYPD should get videos from other days to find out if the shooter cased the street in the days before the shooting.

"UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson was shot and killed in New York on Wednesday morning, according to multiple reports".

[ck4829]

1. "I'm sorry, you have to be shot by all those bullets before you meet your deductible"

[NoRethugFriends]

4. Perfect

[Irish_Dem]

2. Doesn't seem like a professional hitman?

Or someone with adequate intelligence?

Most people would know not to be seen on camera right before committing First Degree murder.
Would not leave personal possessions at the crime scene.

Unless they want to be caught.

[yardwork]

7. Yeah. A number of amateurish details.

Wearing a light, unusually colored backpack.
Hanging around, going to a cafe, making purchases, all seen on security video.
Not wearing a full face mask.
Leaving bullets, water bottle, other stuff behind.
Not seeming to have an exit plan. Taking a citibike?

[Irish_Dem]

8. Something seems off about it.

Most people would not be so careless.

Obviously there was some degree of planning.
But very bad planning.

This almost looks like the perp wanted to be caught.

Or is quite young, or intellectually delayed.

Probably a first murder.

Or someone really angry and did this on the spur of the moment.
Didn't plan it very well.

Do you know how many bullets were fired and at what range?
Victim shot in the back or from the front?

That will tell us more about his possible anger and personal motive.

What about the bullets left on the scene that were not fired?

[yardwork]

11. I've seen the video of the shooting.

Seems like the first shots were at the victlm's back. And the gun jammed and had to be adjusted.

[Irish_Dem]

13. More amateur mistakes.

Gun jamming, having to adjust it.

Not professional.
Not experienced.
Poor planning.

Commits the murder in a busy part of a very busy city.
Leaves video evidence, fingerprints at the crime scene.

In the video does the shooter call the victim's name or shout something so the victim turns around and looks at the shooter?

Trying to determine how personal the murder was.
If the shooter was angry.

We don't even know if the CEO was the intended victim.

[Emrys]

14. Here's my amateurish timeline from a video on Twitter that was posted here earlier:

The victim came into view on the street, walking away from the camera. The assassin, wearing a hoodie with his (?) back to the camera, came quickly into view from the roadside where some vehicles were parked, then fired the first shot. The victim staggered forward against a wall and turned to face the assassin, who kept walking towards him and fired a second shot, the victim collapsed, at which the assassin fired again while nearing him. The assassin walked casually past him, then walked into the road and broke into a run as he moved to the far side.

One person was in a doorway that was between the assassin and the victim when the first shot was fired, but fled past the camera at that point. There was someone in a car parked level with where the victim finally fell as its left blinker was going and its brake lights operated as the assassin walked in front of the car. Neither seemed to have anything to do with the incident.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19789044

If he did call out to the victim before firing the first shot, the victim showed no sign of noticing, just reeled when it hit his back, after which he laid/collapsed against a wall and was partly turned round when the second shot hit him. It seemed more likely the intention was to take him by surprise.

I'll add that the assassin didn't seem phazed by the person in the doorway (a woman IIRC) who fled, nor by the fact someone was in the car he walked in front of at the end. He seemed unhurried until he'd crossed the road. If he was angry, it's impossible to tell from the footage, but nothing indicated that was so. It was 6 a.m. and still twilight, BTW, and didn't seem particularly busy.

The gun "jamming" has been attributed by others who seem to know something about guns (which I don't) to the use of a suppressor and possibly underpowered ammunition for increased stealth, which didn't cycle the rounds, which needed to be done manually.

Anyway, assuming the various clues left behind weren't deliberately planted to lay a false trail, it sounds like the police are making some progress, and they also have a partial face shot of the guy, so this may not be a long guessing game, especially if the assassin's apprehended alive.

[Irish_Dem]

15. Very interesting, thank you.

Interesting, so the shooter fires three shots.
Maybe he would have fired more but the gun jams.

The more shots, the more personal and angry the shooter is.

So the shooter may not be familiar with guns? He didn't understand
he needed different ammunition with a silencer? So more amateur mistakes.

He had to wait for the victim to leave the hotel.
So he must have known the victim's schedule.

It certainly sounds like a targeted killing.

So this is someone who is not a professional hit man.
Either young, or his first murder.

It has a personal feel to it.
But not so personal that he had to make sure the victim knew who was killing him.
Not so personal that he had to keep shooting.

What do you think?

By busy I meant this is NYC in a busy well known part of the city.
This was not Podunk Iowa at 6 am in the morning.

[Emrys]

16. As I said, there was nothing to indicate anger in the footage.

So the shooter may not be familiar with guns? He didn't understand
he needed different ammunition with a silencer? So more amateur mistakes.

The takes I've seen didn't necessarily indicate this at all. The idea was more that he knew the pistol wouldn't cycle properly with that ammo and a suppressor, so he was ready to do it manually, and did in quick succession in the heat of the moment, so unlikely to be an absolute tyro.

It's not clear whether the pistol had a built-in suppressor or was fitted with a silencer.

He kept shooting while approaching the victim until he was satisfied the victim was still, and I guess judged that wasn't going to change, then made his way elsewhere.

The video I watched is at a Twitter link in the OP here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219787370

If you view it, you'll know as much as me.

You may have to click through to Twitter to view the video. I saw a "! Not found" notice in the OP itself, but the tweet is still there as of this moment.

The footage may be available elsewhere by now, but I suspect the MSM may be coy about showing footage of an actual killing on air. I saw CNN's coverage, and they froze the video before the shots were fired. Their correspondent Rikki Kliem judged the killer to be a good shot and showing a calm demeanour throughout (that latter point was my judgement as well).

[Irish_Dem]

17. So he was familiar with guns?

But then why wouldn't he get the appropriate ammo for use with the suppressor?

Unless he did not want to be seen at a gun shop buying ammo prior to the murder?

So there appears the a cool dispassionate approach to the murder.
Perhaps the victim did not wrong him personally, but someone close to the shooter?

But obviously buying the water beforehand in Starbucks and appearing on camera
does appear amateurish.

I will look at the video myself.

But was interested in your analysis of it as well.

ETA: I cannot find the video now.

[Emrys]

22. Here's the video. Silent but NSFW, I guess, and from Twitter to boot:

Link to tweet

(Even if you can normally see tweets displayed on DU, you'll need to click through to view it. I just rechecked the link, and it still works.)

I can't answer all your questions. He was familiar enough with the gun to clear a jam or cycle it under pressure. I think any unfamiliarity with the weapon was the least of his problems.

[Irish_Dem]

23. I cannot access this video.

But I did see online just now a brief clip of the actual shooting.

Yes good points.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

34. Ammo may have been subsonic

Which is specifically designed to not cause the bullet to break the sound barrier. They are generally used with suppressors since the sonic boom of a bullet is pretty loud by itself. Suppressors can only muffle the gun shot itself, they do nothing to muffle the sonic boom. Only way to avoid that is to make sure the bullet doesn't travel fast enough to go supersonic. Down side is they can occasionally cause the gun to fail to cycle due to the lower powder load.

The shooter appears to have expected the failure to cycle, or at the very least, is competent enough that they were able to clear a weapon malfunction without any hesitation.

[Irish_Dem]

35. Thanks. So he knew what he was doing.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

36. At the very least

He's likely fairly familiar with guns.

[yagotme]

38. A suppressor ("silencer") is only truly effective if low powered ammo is used.

If higher velocity ammo is used, the "bang" is still quieted, but a loud "crack" is heard from the bullet breaking the sound barrier. I'm guessing that he bought low velocity ammo to keep the shot as quiet as possible, but it didn't have enough energy (Newton's law) to cycle the action. He seemed to be prepared for that, as he cycled the pistol by hand rather quickly.

[yardwork]

24. Or maybe, this isn't what it seems.

[Irish_Dem]

25. Yes I think we are looking at some deliberate crime scene staging and subterfuge.

The shooter may be more clever than we initially thought.

[Historic NY]

27. He had problem with the weapon, shooting him in the back

means he couldn't face him man to man. He was a sneak.

Definitely a person with a grudge, perhaps a denied medical claim.

[Irish_Dem]

32. The shooter had moved way past confrontation.

He had either tried to confront it in the past, or there was nothing to confront.
It was over in his mind.

The shooter was in "revenge is a dish best served cold" mode.

[Irish_Dem]

18. Significance of the backpack?

I think this means the shooter did not know when the victim would leave the hotel.
So had provisions to wait him out?

However we see he did not even have water with him.
He purchased it at Starbucks right before the murder.

Which if he had known the victim would be coming out of the hotel at any moment
he would not have taken the time to purchase water?

[Cirsium]

3. Breaking news

This vital news about an important event in our current ongoing national crisis sure warrants wall-to-wall breathless coverage. We need to hear every detail.

A bottle of water you say! What could that mean? Murder is so rare in the US.

I refuse to put the sarcasm smiley here!

[BeyondGeography]

5. Plus he used a Citi Bike which can only be done with a credit card

Seems he returned it to 82nd and Madison where there will be more video.

[Jacson6]

19. If this was a professional hit they would have done it with no video around and they would have used a get away driver.

Maybe they will get a break with the DNA, Cell and other video?

[TrunKated]

6. If he or she is smart, then....

They wore something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Halloween-Personalized-Custom-Reusable-Bandana/dp/B0CHVYGRXN/ref=pd_lpo_d_sccl_1/143-1583002-6764345?pd_rd_w=dGaOm&content-id=amzn1.sym.4c8c52db-06f8-4e42-8e56-912796f2ea6c&pf_rd_p=4c8c52db-06f8-4e42-8e56-912796f2ea6c&pf_rd_r=C6GHF3SNVJAS5ZE8Y3QB&pd_rd_wg=wrDfH&pd_rd_r=cf79a61a-b117-4f90-a48c-eb55a0b67381&pd_rd_i=B0CHVYGRXN&psc=1

And had someone else inadvertantly touch the bullets, etc before scattering them.

[rso]

9. Bullets

The reason there were bullets on the ground is because the gun jammed, and in order to remedy the jam, one must cock the pistol a couple of times at which time unfired bullets from the magazine are expelled.

[applegrove]

10. Yes. They said that on CNN.

[ZonkerHarris]

12. But will a jury convict when they find out why he did it?

[Jacson6]

20. Maybe space aliens told him to do it? n/t

[Cattledog]

37. Not if from denial of coverage that resulted in a death

that could have been avoided. I'd never vote to convict him.

[ZonkerHarris]

41. Same

[Liberal In Texas]

21. A couple of other interesting items:

The shooter escaped on an e-bike. E-bikes cost around $3000-$6000. (Average like $4000). They aren't easy to steal, they all come with wheel locks. You have to own a charger specific for the bike to charge the battery.

Thompson was under investigation for insider trading:

The guy wasn't exactly a saint.

[Historic NY]

29. You can rent one in NYC

https://unlimitedbiking.com/new-york/rentals/electric-bikes/]

Starting at $40 | 16+ |Hourly and Daily Rentals!

[Liberal In Texas]

40. My wife said they were more prevalent in NYC than they are around here.

Also, if the guy rented one I would guess the cops are already checking all the rentals in the last few days and all the renters.

[UpInArms]

26. In the video that CNN obtained

They said that one of things they saw was a person fleeing in the opposite direction, it would be my suspicion that the water bottle, candy wrapper was theirs, as they might have seen a man with a gun and dropped everything in their hands and ran like hell

[DenaliDemocrat]

28. He cleared a jam

Yes - those are unspent bullets. The shooter had excellent technique and knew the proper way to clear a jam. Slap the magazine rack, fire.

[Historic NY]

31. Rack, tap, bang...

A Glock perhaps

A hesitant shooter? Nervous? Poor grip?

[yagotme]

39. My guess is low velocity ammo not cycling properly.

High velocity ammo isn't as quiet through a silencer.

[DenaliDemocrat]

42. Probably limp wristed it

That’s usually the culprit. Blocks and their clones are amazingly reliable even full of grit and grime

[sop]

30. If, as some believe, the shooter left a trail of evidence because he wants to be caught,

maybe he's dying of a terminal condition, and his UHC insurance didn't cover necessary treatment.

[Oneear]

33. America needs to advance further Gun Safety

Measures that will help keep our Children and Communities Safe