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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsExit polls reveal why Trump made huge gains with blue-collar union members
Trump ran up large margins among White voters without a college degree who belong to labor unions and also significantly improved among unionized non-White workers without advanced education, according to previously unpublished results from the exit polls conducted by Edison Research and the AP VoteCast survey conducted by NORC. Those are the two major data sources measuring voters’ behavior in the election available so far.“
Look, the Democratic Party has lost their way to some extent with working class voters,” said Ted Pappageorge, secretary treasurer of the powerful Culinary Workers Union Local 226 in Las Vegas. “When we were (knocking) at the doors … it was pretty clear that Trump was winning the fight about dealing with inflation and kitchen table issues and Democrats essentially were being viewed as the party of abortion.”“To be honest, Biden has not been a credible messenger for a really long time,” Rosenthal said. “So despite the huge accomplishments, he was not communicating that. And I think it’s really difficult for a union to do that on its own. In the case of Harris, (rank-and-file union members) had no idea she cast the deciding vote on the pension bill, or she cast the vote that created tens of thousands of union jobs with the Inflation Reduction Act.”
Pappageorge said one issue essentially eclipsed everything else Biden delivered for working families and organized labor. “All of those things are important, but the No. 1 issue on the mind of working-class people, including union people, was inflation and the cost of living,” he said.
Pappageorge described Biden as “my hero” because of all of his accomplishments for working people, but he believes the president dug an insurmountable hole for the party by trying for months to emphasize the economy’s positive aspects rather than challenging companies raising prices and rents, as Harris forcefully did immediately after she entered the race. “Kamala had the best message we saw; we think her message was on point,” Pappageorge said. “If Biden had been running on Kamala’s program earlier, I think they would have reaped the benefit of that. But they didn’t. They tried to tell working class people the economy is setting records.”
https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/10/politics/trump-blue-collar-workers-analysis/index.html
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NoMoreRepugs
(11,024 posts)50%+ of American adults read at under a sixth grade level. Would you trust a sixth grader to elect the President??
Septua
(2,722 posts)
Probatim
(3,101 posts)republican plan to break unions and the middle class, these nimrods will never admit/know they boned themselves.
Blue Full Moon
(1,807 posts)Because they vote for candidates that cause it. That somehow magically they will be the billionaire and get to call the shots. The most venomous MAGA I know was in need of help after her husband died. Didn't receive any. Blames the Democrats, then proceeds to vote republican to make sure no one can get help. But it's the limits imposed by the republicans that have caused the problem.
DSandra
(1,501 posts)You are stuck with this system. Marketers learn how to talk to people of different classes, why can't Democrats and other educated people?
Jack Valentino
(1,657 posts)and Republicans wanted to take the vote away from them....
I think we mostly need to simplify our "messaging" down the bumper-sticker level,
and repeat it incessantly the way the Republicans do---
Democrats have won the debate wars, and the oratory wars,
but they've lost the messaging wars because we refuse to recognize the fact
that the average American voter has the attention span of a gnat---
and to get through to those people, you need simple messages
repeated until the cows come home and go out again...
Polls have shown that the majority of the public agrees with the
Democratic positions on most issues, when questions of party are left out of it....
"Republicans want to kill Social Security!" that would be ONE position repeated over and over,
which resonates with the public, but we only use it intermittently....
yardwork
(65,637 posts)Just looking at DU, I see some issues that are a problem with our party's messaging.
For one thing, people don't like being told what to think and feel. Somehow, the Democratic Party has become a party of people scolding others for how they feel.
Take the UHC assassination. DUers reacted with a wide range of opinions and emotional responses, from "the killer is a sociopathic murderer" to "the killer is a hero." I respect every one of those opinions. They're sincere feelings. What I don't like are the scolders, the posts that say "We should be ashamed of ourselves for expressing such and so opinion."
That's not a good strategy for winning elections. We need to stop telling people how to feel about things, and start offering clear solutions. Who cares if the solutions will be difficult to achieve? The Republicans make big promises all the time.
We are too cautious and too scoldy.
Septua
(2,722 posts)"..he believes the president dug an insurmountable hole for the party by trying for months to emphasize the economy’s positive aspects rather than challenging companies raising prices and rents"
What was he supposed to do? I heard Joe say time and again, companies were price gouging but Presidents can't dictate business' pricing. And there are still some supply issues affecting prices...and it's a global issue.
If Trump magically gets a big drop in the price of gas and groceries, it will be the result of him cutting some kind of deal, like a tax cut, where business wins again.
And it all goes back to voter mentality...presidents get blamed for whatever the hell the voters unhappy about. And, "it's the economy, stupid."
markodochartaigh
(2,384 posts)US media is 99% either reich-wing, far reich-wing, or "let's hear from both sides".
Reagan was a bobble head, but as an actor, he had a great delivery and a willing media. The Democratic party needs candidates who are bright and shiny enough to get their message across on very reluctant media. In a country of style over substance and fake it 'til you make it, what you can get voters to believe is even more important than the truth.
BComplex
(9,278 posts)And they have for the past 30 years or more.
valleyrogue
(1,783 posts)As long as there are these aggrieved white males, no woman will ever be elected president of the United States.
kelly1mm
(5,632 posts)1) Get rid of males (or at least the white ones). Problematic at best.
2) Acquiesce to their grievances which seem to be 'Of course I am in charge! Respect my authority!'. Again, problematic at best.
3) Don't nominate a woman in the top spot for ....... basically ever.
I am putting my bets on option #3
EdmondDantes_
(299 posts)Obama won many of those voters in 2008 and 2012. Biden won enough of them in 2020 with Harris on the ticket. Granted that will be hard given how fundamentally broken our legislative process is in that it's hard to get policy through that would make changes for those voters, but I don't think it's a lost cause.
Blue Full Moon
(1,807 posts)They do what the laws allow them to do. I thought that there was laws against price gouging. Not enforced.
MichMan
(14,317 posts)Unlike what some candidates suggested, they were never designed to determine if a box of Cheerios should cost $3.29 or $3.99 or what the fair market price of a Pickup Truck or Cell phone should be.
Blue Full Moon
(1,807 posts)MichMan
(14,317 posts)Even though laws were already on the books, it was very few if any. There may have been some instances for things like masks. Maybe someone buying up a lot of TP and selling it on Craigslist.
Again, it is to cover price increases of something like 200-300% in a very short timeframe due to scarcity, not for a jar of Peanut Butter going up 50 cents. None of those laws would have ever applied to increases due to inflation in the big grocery stores.
Bluetus
(710 posts)Note this item from the OP:
Frankly, I don't remember Biden EVER saying anything about the economy during the campaign, and I remember little of what Harris said about it. That doesn't mean that they were silent. It means they were not IMPACTFUL.
On the abortion issue, Harris seemed to give that issue about half the bandwidth of the campaign, and she was at least a little specific. She said that we would somehow return to the Roe standard, but never said how. On the economy, I challenge anybody to find a single moment during the campaign when Harris, Walz, or Biden ever talked about any specific measures they were willing to fight for. For example, did any of them ever mention a windfall profits tax? Or any other specific response to the price gouging? If they did, I never heard it.
For that matter, were there ANY specific proposals for legislation or executive action that Harris campaigned on? I don't remember any.
Compare that to Trump. He talked specifics:
* Deport 20 million "illegals"
* Put tariffs on every imported product
* etc.
We can all say Trump's ideas are not practical and he isn't sincere about them, but they are MEMORABLE, and sound like a person trying to do something.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)When Donnie's message was literally an endless loop of:
"Haitians eating your pets..."
"Mass deportations..."
"I'm the greatest person to ever do anything in recorded history!"
"Everything is rigged!"
"The weave..."
"30 million illegal Mexicans voted for Biden and that's why we need to deport them..."
"Military tribunals and firing squads for my political enemies..."
"Hannibal Lecter is having us for dinner..."
"I don't know what Harris' race is..."
"TARIFFS TARIFFS AND MORE TARIFFS WILL FIX EVERYTHING!!"
"I really admire Arnold Palmer's glorious white peener..."
When some smug smartassed pundit finally tells me WHY the blessed working class thought this was campaign strategy that earned their votes, maybe I'll give a serious listen to his criticisms of Harris and Biden...
Bluetus
(710 posts)an affirmative plan -- even an insane one -- beats vague, noncommittal, passive platitudes.
You don't need people to stop talking about messaging. You need to learn what it means, and then demand that from your candidates. It doesn't mean what I think you think it means.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)I'm gonna need you to read this to yourself really slowly and contemplate on it for awhile...
That's really where we are as a country now? Even if this insane affirmative plan leads everyone off a cliff like lemmings? Wow... Well fuck me, we might as well run a Hollywood celebrity next time if the public is that fucking shallow... Brad Pitt 2028!
But thank you for confirming that the election had Jack Fucking Shit to do with "the issues" and Kamala Harris' true sin (besides having the improper ethnic background) was not being entertaining enough....
And I'm not making jokes or poking fun at you, I'm honestly 100 percent curious: What was the last affirmative but insane plan that you unquestioningly followed??
Bluetus
(710 posts)But over 70 million did. You don't seem to understand why, and I'm trying to explain it. Trump gave specifics, repeated often, and delivered in a cocksure, arrogant way. Americans are not very good at critical thinking. They rely on boastfulness as a proxy for reason.
Many people, perhaps you, scoffed when Trump said he could murder somebody on 5th Avenue and get away with it. You might have thought it was hyperbole. It was not. He meant it because he understands how limited the intellect of the American public is.
So when we present candidates who run on platitudes and values without stating any affirmative plans (insane or well-reasoned), well, this is the result. Don't blame me. Trump figured this out a long tome ago. Isn't it time that the rest of us understood that and changed how we go about things?
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)I **DO** understand why the angry orange idiot won, and that's racism/sexism plus a tidal wave of lies and disinformation. Any other discussion is just a waste of time and bandwidth.
Donnie had zero fucking "specifics", nor could his cultists give any specifics about why they love Dear Leader so much -- Believe me, I've asked them and I've never gotten any answer more substantial than "Because he's going to make America great again!" or "Because he really loves his country and wants to put us first on the world stage!"
Bluetus
(710 posts)It is all in the P2025 doc. Apart from the project 2025 document, Trump continuously mentioned many outcomes he expected to achieve. I can list 50 of them for you. He did not talk about how he would do that or what the negative consequences might be. But that's a different issue all together. He promised people results and that's what they remembered and voted on.
The only thing I remember Harris saying specifically was something about a tax credit to help first time home buyers. That's not very compelling. Everything else I remember from the campaign was broad platitudes. You don't move anybody with platitudes these days.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)That Project 2025??
The Project 2025 that openly wants to eliminate the EPA, DOJ, Education, anything having to do with citizen rights, consumer protections or a social safety net? THAT PROJECT 2025?
The Project 2025 that plans to even eliminate DOG PARKS? The Project 2025 that's planning to install a Taliban level of oppression on all women?
Yeah, I can see why the blue-collar union guys would be totally in support of this, even though Project 2025 plans to also eliminate worker's rights and labor unions... 
This is the part where I once again ask why working-class white folks love voting against their own interests so much... But I know now that they'll happily burn down the country and suffer as long as they are assured that non-whites are suffering even worse than they are...
Bluetus
(710 posts)Last edited Thu Dec 12, 2024, 05:00 PM - Edit history (1)
Only 5% of Americans give a shit about civics and only 20% have the critical thinking skills to figure out that these things are entirely against their interests.
It doesn't do any good to try to reason with them. We have to give them promises that they can understand and not get hung up on the minutia required to implement. I know this is hard for "good government" Democrats to understand and accept, but we will continue our 60-year decline until we learn how this works today.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)Regardless of how tethered it is to reality?
Maybe we can even get disinformation campaigns working for us instead of against us in the next election... I'm on board with that
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)DSandra
(1,501 posts)Now Trump will get the credit for them!
DSandra
(1,501 posts)You surely should be able to come up with something.
Democracy is under siege around the world, partly because of its relative ineffectiveness to deal with big problems compared to autocracies. Politicians have to get their act together or the world will eventually all live in tyranny.
C_U_L8R
(46,491 posts)But they'll blame everyone except themselves
Thrill
(19,321 posts)Just complete dumb asses. They’ll learn. The hard way
Emile
(32,871 posts)
doc03
(37,522 posts)were always Republicans. They complained about the union and having to pay union dues, but they were the first to run to the union with their grievances. The first job I had back in the 60s was in a small shop, we had about 35 employees. This was in Virginia a "right to work state". We had one employee that wouldn't even pay union dues, but he was the first one to run to the union if he didn't get an overtime shift. The older employees said they had a strike one time for a couple days and he crossed the picket line.
walkingman
(8,887 posts)For 24 of my 33 years at my former employer I was a union member and then took a mgmt job. For years it was common practice for my fellow members complain about union dues, some even stopped paying them. They thought they didn't need the union. They were glad to get the negotiated benefits, pay increases, and pension benefits but because they might get along with their 1st line supervisor that he would take care of them.
But what they didn't understand is although their 1st line or even 2nd manager might take care of them - they prety much had a lot of responsibility but very little decision making authority.
After taking the mgmt job I saw first hand some of the underhanded sucking up they would do without regard to the contract or their fellow worker. And if they wanted say a transfer somewhere they would beg the union to support them - back their back dues - whatever it took to get what they wanted.
I live in a right-to-work state which basically killed the union movement - especially in the South.
A lot of workers in America are only in it for themselves and everyone and everything else is expendable.
Response to Thrill (Reply #4)
Prof. Toru Tanaka This message was self-deleted by its author.
JT45242
(3,175 posts)Period.
End of Statement.
They don't want to say out loud that they didn't like an uppity black man as president for 8 years and hells to the no to some uppity black mixed woman.
Celerity
(48,263 posts)Proof?
Biden would have lost by greater numbers than Harris did. His favourabilty and polling numbers were cataclysmic.
Of course racism and sexism played some role, but not the largest roles. Trump was drawing more from minorities, men in general, and younger voters before Harris was the nominee.
I say this all as a mixed race black female, btw, so I am damn well aware of what Harris faced on the the misogynoir front.
MotownPgh
(430 posts)breakdowns for union membership. I only know local number in Western Pa
SunSeeker
(54,879 posts)37.4% are African American, Hispanic, AAPI, or other nonwhite workers. https://www.epi.org/publication/who-are-todays-union-workers/#:~:text=Almost%20half%20of%20workers%20represented,AAPI%2C%20or%20other%20nonwhite%20workers.
However, Black workers have the highest union membership rate. Among the major race and ethnicity groups, Black workers continued to have a higher union membership rate in 2023 (11.8 percent) than White workers (9.8 percent), Asian workers (7.8 percent), and Hispanic workers (9.0 percent). https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf
MotownPgh
(430 posts)DSandra
(1,501 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 4, 2025, 03:47 AM - Edit history (1)
[post deleted]
doc03
(37,522 posts)day one.
And the trump virus.
Iris
(16,292 posts)I just don't get it.
doc03
(37,522 posts)tycoon for 4 or 5 decades. If you repeat a lie and the bigger lie people start believing it.
Cosmocat
(15,103 posts)When people do stupid things?
canuckledragger
(1,992 posts)You don't expect idiots to take responsibility for themselves, do you? Especially when a con man gives them a scapegoat.
DSandra
(1,501 posts)Republicans are the aggressive bullies, and unfortunately we are in this position of having to not make mistakes.
Sorceress
(310 posts)No one wants to admit the electorate is the problem.
kelly1mm
(5,632 posts)JI7
(91,459 posts)was not recieved in the way it would have if Biden or some other man had been giving it.
It comes down to the same thing.
Right now we are talking about people's frustrations with health care but Trump actually tried to take away what we had and years later says he only has a concept of a plan.
So regular people are full of shit also.
Passages
(2,032 posts)I have recalled here when WNYC asked callers to explain how the economy worked for them and the responses were rather stark.
Many had two jobs, some three, and some single parents, etc.
WNYC had economists on and discussed these stories, and their responses were that the economy is good, there is growth, etc.
People are telling you one thing and you're telling them they're wrong.
In addition, Trump always had an advantage with corporate media, even that MSNBC some seem to like....but that was never going to help Biden nor Harris.
Why would they ever brag about what Lina Khan was doing at DOJ for working people?
They didn't. In late Oct. 60 Minutes did a piece with her, that was it as far as I know.
SunSeeker
(54,879 posts)Most educated people realized Trump was telling a lie, and also knew his tariff plan would only make prices go up, so they voted for Harris.
But the Fox watching Blue collar folks just saw one candidate promising them lower prices and the other making no promises to lower prices.
It's not like they were sure Trump could do it, but they were so desperate for lower prices that they decided to take a chance with the guy making the promises they wanted to hear...and their decision was also spurred on by Trump's appeal to their racism and/or sexism.
Even if they don't get lower prices, they're racism/sexism will stll be validated by Trump for the next 4 years (because he will always be a racist & sexist fuck) and that's still a win in their mind.
Passages
(2,032 posts)They are indeed culprits, they were sued and paid over 700 million dollars due to their lies.
But we have IMO, an accumulative effect and losses can be attributed to Manchin and Sinema gutting BBB.
Biden knew people were losing faith in the government as a vehicle for improving their lives and wanted that legislation to fill that deep void.
There are plenty of culprits, and M$M is another culprit, even the ones who are considered fair. They can't get over how so many are gleeful regarding the cold-blooded murder of Thompson...because they don't often report the tragedies of the healthcare system.
Racism and misogyny are fallback tactics the GOP has used for decades...Trump is a marketer and better at it than Reagan was, unfortunately.
Perfect storms are complicated but they can be pulled apart to see how they're formed.
bucolic_frolic
(49,038 posts)but all they cared about was grocery prices
valleyrogue
(1,783 posts)crooked, and incompetent MAN remain “in charge.”
kelly1mm
(5,632 posts)minimum wage as when he came into office.
Jose Garcia
(3,093 posts)
bigtree
(91,500 posts)...directed at all of the folks those whit uneducated voters have been targeting for decades now.
This isn't something Democrats can address by 'appealing to the working class' or any other economic canard on a blaming record growth economy.
These people are racists, homophobes, xenophobes, and misogynists.
Making like their vote had to do with their education or the economy is bullshit. They knew the differences between candidates and chose the convicted felon rapist, so that makes them despicable people, not voters we should be giving a minute of fealty to the excuses they gave for voting to put a convicted felon in the White House.
What are we doing? People are focusing all of their criticism on the good people for blame in the election instead of the cretins that voted for Trump.
Can't folks see that's the aim of the morons who make a career writing this drivel?
LittleGirl
(8,584 posts)
Aviation Pro
(14,021 posts)Around their fucking kitchen table not a fucking word was ever said about living within their fucking means.
Nope, not a word.
Prof. Toru Tanaka
(2,475 posts)How many of these people hollering about high grocery prices live in houses with a high mortgage payment, huge SUVs or tricked out pickup trucks in the driveway with big monthly payments and one or more credit cards with balances of thousands of dollars?
One of our favorite grocery stores has some high prices normally but they also run a lot of good sales. I went there yesterday and stocked up on some Marie Callender dinners and Progresso soups along with some other items. After everything was rung up, the discounts kicked in and the $129 bill became $79.81. I couldn’t help but smile as I left the store.
usonian
(16,227 posts)
People with position papers and statistical analysis software see things one way.
People whose grocery chains jacked up prices despite lower costs see
an excuse to play out their racism and misogyny.
DownriverDem
(6,754 posts)machine like the repubs. Rich Dem supporters need to step up. repubs have been using their media machine since the 1980s starting with rush limbaugh. They have convinced folks we are the enemy.
valleyrogue
(1,783 posts)It was white male entitlement that made these idiots vote against their economic self interest.
Polls have consistently shown blue collar white men vote for Rs. Union membership or not has nothing to do with their voting habits.
Their entire lives revolve around grievances, real and imagined. Trump's rhetoric was designed to play to that.
Meadowoak
(6,407 posts)
JohnSJ
(97,831 posts)from that fiasco.
This is the second time they have voted against their own interests, and as far as I am concerned they deserve musk and the sociopath for that, and they will no longer get my support in any form.
uponit7771
(92,476 posts)Paladin
(29,597 posts)Here's hoping you suffer for your stupidity. God knows the rest of us will.
Abstractartist
(198 posts)We need to face facts here. In my opinion, the reason why we lost was….
President Biden was horrendous in the debate. He looked confused, feeble and way too old to run this country. The beginning of the end was when Pelosi and other important democrat politicians came out for replacement of Joe Biden. I tried to go full tilt on it. Read some of my past posts. I was very big on Harris/Walz…. I live in the very very red state of South Carolina. They elect “people” like Nancy Mace and Lyndsey Graham…🤢… but what is worse is how democrats are treated here, and most likely in other red voting states…they think we only care about abortion, transgender in women bathrooms, tax and spend, welfare, “letting them damn illegal get away with murder”, etc.
Until we can change that view of our party, with young progressive candidates. I’ll just say, look at that last election map and think about trying to turn some red to blue….
CousinIT
(11,031 posts)EVER.
I still think a lot of "economy" was about racism and sexism. It's a cover word for all that. Or, even likelier - most voters are just stupid.
SunSeeker
(54,879 posts)I fully expect these dipshits to be fine with the high price of eggs after Trump takes office.
ananda
(31,285 posts)And misogyny.
That's why people were willing to believe the lies.
get the red out
(13,688 posts)When the question will be "how about that omlette"?
MichMan
(14,317 posts)Courting union leaders does little to reach the concerns of those voters in any meaningful fashion
NNadir
(35,245 posts)As for kitchen tables, it's not entirely out of the question that they may lack an essential element, under Trump, food.
Dem4life1970
(724 posts)It's really not that complicated
displacedvermoter
(3,553 posts)dchill
(41,483 posts)And they wouldn't even know I was talking about them.
travelingthrulife
(1,706 posts)accomplished those things to the other union members before the election? They must have communication tools. Newsletters or blog sites? Door knocking??? Sheesh.
Again...the Democrats didn't do this or that.
Americans themselves need to be responsible to know what is going on in their own backyard. It is your union, INFORM your members.
Americanme
(154 posts)So I'll vote for the party that will bust my union and lower my pay. Brilliant.
DSandra
(1,501 posts)And the time off being nothing more than have some much needed entertainment, basic living chores, and deal with bills and other living issues. Many Americans just don't have the time to follow politics and be politically aware outside of headlines.
Beck23
(354 posts)Trump is REALLY dumb. He really believes other countries pay the tariffs. His handlers know better but they let him believe this because the tariffs are a tax on the lower and middle class, and that's what his rich handlers want.
I mean Trump has said he wants a tariff on cars imported from Mexico. Those are GM cars made at GM plants in Mexico. It seems Trump doesn't understand that these tariffs on 'Mexican' cars are a tax on GM.
His uneducated supporters are just as dumb as he is and they think he is smart because he played a businessman on TV so they will believe anything he says.
DSandra
(1,501 posts)People especially in the top 20% can't understand the economic complaints compared to the people who are actually hurting, the people who are struggling to make ends meet despite insane cost of housing, cost of everything else being 30% higher than they were a few years ago, and now the evisceration of jobs by AI.
"Nearly 40 million families, or 29% of the population, fall in the category of ALICE — Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed — according to United Way’s United for ALICE program, which first coined the term to refer to households earning above the poverty line but less than what’s needed to get by.
That figure doesn’t include the 37.9 million Americans who live in poverty, comprising 11.5% of the total population, according to data from the U.S. Census Bureau. "
- https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/29/29percent-of-us-households-have-jobs-but-struggle-to-cover-basic-needs.html
"GREENWOOD VILLAGE, Colo., July 2, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- Some 37% of Americans can't afford an unexpected expense over $400, and almost a quarter (21%) have no emergency savings at all, according to new Empower research.
"Not all surprises are good, and people know it. The study suggests financial precarity at a time when household finances may be stretched due to rising prices and inflation," says Rebecca Rickert, head of communications at Empower. "Life happens, and people are stressed about the surprise expenses that could tip them off-balance."
"For 62%, having a dedicated emergency savings is a priority, yet nearly half (47%) of people say regular monthly expenses are too high for them to put money away.""
- https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/37-of-americans-cant-afford-an-emergency-expense-over-400-according-to-empower-research-302187157.html
W_HAMILTON
(8,777 posts)The most recent data shows the percent of Americans that say they are "at least doing okay financially" is at 72%, which is where it was right before the pandemic and not out of line with where it has been over the past decade (62% at its lowest, 78% at its highest).
PS - Who exactly is it you are suggesting that is blind to the lives of people outside their economic class? Because you seem to be implying that someone isn't understanding the economic complaints from these union workers, but the fact of the matter is that many union workers -- including many "blue collar" union workers -- are in the top 20%. But of course, maybe that jives with your first article, since the poorest Americans voted for Kamala, but many of these well-to-do union workers voted for Trump.
DSandra
(1,501 posts)Sounds a lot like Republicans saying that we were in a “mental recession” in 2008.
W_HAMILTON
(8,777 posts)I take it you have not seen the complete 180 in polls on what Republicans think about the economy now?
By the numbers: Heading into the election, Republican consumer sentiment, as measured by the index, was at about 83 overall— any number under 100 indicates negativity. Now, a week post-Trump victory, it's at 107.5.
...
Overall sentiment (with everyone included) is higher, and is into positive territory for the first time since June 2021...
Taken from: https://www.axios.com/2024/11/13/consumer-sentiment-republican-democrat-switch
So, it sounds like Republicans were wrong both in your example from 2008 AND now -- gee, who would have thunk it?
Johnny2X2X
(22,462 posts)I think the chart on education level and financial well being is a little revealing. People with degrees it's basically no change, just noise. People with high school or less than high school it seems like it is noticeable, and surprisingly, so is the people with 2 year degrees.
Overall, it's not a lot of difference, but I do find that this all peaked in 2021 when people were still getting the expanded child tax credit, there was still enhanced unemployment insurance, and there was more aid coming to people. That is very telling, basically, people did great during Covid, but when the Covid aid went away they noticed. This suggests we need expanded help for low income people and for people with children. More Democratic policies.
Basically, we had more socialism under Covid and then people were hurt and got pissed off when that socialism went away. The eviction moratorium seemed to be an example of this, people were more secure for a while, but then when it was lifted, people got angry and there was a build up of pending evictions that then all hit quickly.
Johnny2X2X
(22,462 posts)You had millions of Americans who were objectively doing better claiming they were doing worse and the economy was awful.
Polls are odd in that how you word the questions for the same general concept can greatly change the answer. For instance, when people were asked about the economy, most answered it was bad. When people were asked if they were better off, most answered no. But if you were a little more detailed and ask them if they are doing better finiancially, most would answer yess. Specifically if you asked them about their savings and their debt, most would answer they were doing better. And most also realized income gains that exceeded inflation, that's just a plane fact.
So you literally had people who had more wealth, more money, less debt, and more savings saying they were worse off because the economy is bad.
And you watch too, the proaganda is just as powerful going the other way. These same people could lose their jobs, lose their houses, and be broke and they'll answer these same types of polls with, "Well the economy is doing good, even though I am struggling, but I'm still better off than before because the economy is so good." Wait for that, it's coming. And The Ruling Class has convinced them that all the economic numbers are fake anyway, so when UE rises to 8% while wages fall, they won't believe it. They'll also blame Biden for the Trump inflation that will come from his tariffs.
I've had discussions with these people. People I know well enough to know for a fact that they're doing much better but they'll still claim they aren't. One friend who I know for a fact makes $75K a year more than he did 5 years ago, but he's really upset about the price of McDonald's McDoubles.
dpibel
(3,534 posts)ThePartyThatListens
(340 posts)Democrats need to have a bad guy to point to for all the problems.
e.g. Big Corporations for gouging etc
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)because he's insulting my fucking intelligence if he's seriously saying Biden had a credibility problem while Trump didn't...
underpants
(189,014 posts)
LonePirate
(14,027 posts)America is easily the advanced economy with the highest percentage of dumb citizens within its borders.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)1. Trump has never done anything to help so-called blue-collar union members, so why would they possibly think they'd benefit from a second term?
2. WHAT did these blessed blue-collar union members find so appealing about Trump's "economic message" WHEN HE LITERALLY HAD ONLY TWO FUCKING DETAIL-FREE PROPOSALS -- MASS DEPORTATIONS AND HEAVY TARIFFS ON ALL IMPORTS?!
3. WHY am I able to independently research complex issues for myself when tens of millions of people need it spelled out for them, and even when it IS spelled out for them, they'd rather choose to believe the disinfo they saw from some edgy meme or viral tweet instead?
4. Did any of these blue-collar union members even watch Harris absolutely mop the fucking floor with Donnie during the debate? Were they not convinced when Donnie completely shit down his leg and 100% chickened out of doing any further debates unless it was on Faux News in front of his own hand-picked panel??
ecstatic
(34,652 posts)Point blank period. They were conned by an obvious con man.
When the horror stories are rolling in, my first question will always be: who did you vote for? I will not waste a shred of sympathy or empathy on people who voted for him.
republianmushroom
(18,882 posts)
Initech
(103,948 posts)We cannot deny that the alpha male dude bro sphere (Dan Bongino, Andrew Tate, Dana White, Joe Rogan, etc) was a huge influence on uneducated white males. And if we don't work to counter that influence, we can kiss that vote goodbye for the next century. 
LetMyPeopleVote
(159,338 posts)Is Donald Trump going to succeed in lowering grocery prices? In successive weeks, the president-elect answered the question in two very different ways.
https://bsky.app/profile/stevebenen.com/post/3ld4pnzlrks2g
Trump to Time magazine: "I'd like to bring them down. It's hard to bring things down once they're up. You know, it's very hard."
Link to tweet
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/comes-grocery-prices-trump-suddenly-changes-tune-rcna183958
That was the message the public heard on Sunday, when the “Meet the Press” interview aired. Four days later, Time magazine published the transcript of its latest interview Trump, which included a rather pointed question: “If the prices of groceries don’t come down, will your presidency be a failure?” The president-elect replied:
I don’t think so. Look, they got them up. I’d like to bring them down. It’s hard to bring things down once they’re up. You know, it’s very hard. But I think that they will.
For context, it’s important to emphasize that the interview was conducted on Nov. 25. In other words, shortly before Thanksgiving, Trump told Time that it’d be “very hard” to lower grocery prices, and he wasn’t sure whether he’d be able to achieve that goal. The following week, the Republican sat down with Welker and publicly committed to bringing grocery prices “way down.”
In the same interview, Trump added that he “can’t guarantee” that his trade tariffs won’t actually raise prices......
In other words, before Election Day, the Republican struggled to talk about his plans for grocery prices, and that hasn’t changed in the election’s wake.
WarGamer
(16,570 posts)The DEMOCRATS can't make a coalition out of recycled neocons, billionaires and celebrities.
DEMOCRATS can't all of a sudden be pro-war, anti-free speech and pander to the rich.
SunSeeker
(54,879 posts)Here's some truth:
It is the REPUBLICANS who have cobbled together a coalition with billionaires. Trump is populating his cabinet with them. Their net worth is $383 billion – higher than the GDP of 172 countries. Trump’s first Cabinet total net worth was about $6.2 billion. By comparison, Biden’s Cabinet total net worth is about $118 million. https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/how-many-billionaires-are-in-trumps-administration-and-what-is-their-worth#google_vignette
It is Democrats who have campaigned on taxing the rich, while REPUBLICANS have been pandering to them, calling them the "job creators" and promising them even more tax cuts than they have already given them under Trump. That is why the rich poured $4 billion of their money into dark money pacs to flood the airwaves and internet with propaganda against Harris, swamping the $1 billion Harris got from individual donors.
It is REPUBLICANS who brought us the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars (George W. Bush started both, in 2001 and 2003, respectively). It is DEMOCRATS who ended them (Obama pulled us out of Afghanistan in 2011, Biden pulled us out of Afghanistan in 2021).
It is REPUBLICANS who have been banning books and blocking attempts at tolerance through their "War on Woke."
The economy is in fact in great shape. The rich have never had it better. Working people's lives are hard because of wealth inequality. And the reason we have wealth inequality is because REPUBLICANS block every Democratic attempt to make life better and more affordable for working people, like childcare subsidies, paid family leave, free state college/student loan forgiveness, single payor or government option healthcare, $15 federal minimum wage...the list goes on and on.