Kill one person, go to jail. Kill thousands, get a bonus.

[Eko]

My Dad died from not being able to get insulin. If you want to talk to me about murder I can definitely have that conversation.

[Celerity]

1. +100000000000000000000000000

[malaise]

2. Too sad

Rec

[Irish_Dem]

3. Billionaires and politicians can kill people legally.

The rest of us not so much.

So sorry to hear about your Dad.

Makes me so mad to hear about preventable deaths in the richest country in the history of the damn world.

[Eko]

6. Thanks.

[DENVERPOPS]

46. Think of Trump,

and the RepubliCON Senators, House Members, and Governors of Red States that contributed to the hundreds of thousands of Deaths of Covid victims...................

Not only did they NOT care about them, but actually and blatantly plotted methods of making phenominal amounts of money off the Virus...................

[Irish_Dem]

48. Kushner/Trump sold needed Covid medical equipment to foreign countries.

Jared said all the medical supplies belonged to Trump and himself.

I am sure they pocketed the money personally.

[DENVERPOPS]

50. Jared and Ivanka

grifted to the max. All shipments of PPE coming into the country were confiscated for them by customs.

Remember how the Governor of Mass had to rely on a private individual to fly PPE direct from China to Boston and use his armed National Guard and State Patrol to guard the shipment from customs, and to get it to hospitals??????

Then the two of them found something infinitely easier......selling Top Secret U.S. and other countries Intel to the Saudis......
One easy trip, and Two Billion Dollars to Jared to invest in his non-existent "investment firm" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Irish_Dem]

51. Oh yes that was totally astounding.

And no one cared and elected the rotten mob family back into the WH to kill more Americans
and profit off of the deaths.

Right, the theft of the medical equipment was small potatoes. Selling classified documents is much
more lucrative.

And they could kill Americans that way too.
Higher number than average of CIA and military assets disappeared after Trump took office.

[DENVERPOPS]

52. To say nothing

about all the other countries Military Intel, etc that were auctioned off by Ivanka and Jared. I can only imagine how many hundreds of secret agents, world wide, the day after the intel was sold..........Not only ours but other allied countries spies also.
Now, no other country will ever again share intel of any kind with the U.S. government, and definitely since Trump will be back in charge with his staff of equal opportunity grifters that he is appointing.....

[Irish_Dem]

54. The damage is incalculable.

The US cannot be trusted on any level again.

Our allies and friends may hate us as much as our enemies do.

[DENVERPOPS]

55. It's like

when Cheney/Rumsfeld outed Valerie Plame's husband, as a CIA agent, to get even for him telling the public Saddam was nowhere near developing atomic weapons. Any person, in the world, who had done business with Valerie Plame's "Import/export business was immediately suspected, by every foreign country, and "dropped" within hours of the Cheney/Rumsfeld outing of her husband......

[Irish_Dem]

56. We think Cheney is evil.

But Cheney's diabolical evilness is child's play compared to Putin/Trump/MAGAs.

Yes Trump and Kushner stealing and selling classified docs will have had far reaching impact.
All of it bad.

[DENVERPOPS]

58. the worst part is

Cheney not saying ONE WORD to defend his daughter even though he knows she is right.......Pure Black Titanium Heart.....

[Irish_Dem]

59. Cheney's heart paid for by the US taxpayer.

While he was in office he was much sicker than he admitted to being.
He required daily medical care and when he traveled a team went with him or
he stopped at military hospitals for care.

Yes the man is evil to his core.

[DENVERPOPS]

60. My question, regarding his transplant is:

A person has to meet certain criteria to be eligible, he had zero positives, an numerous negatives to ever being put on the list.
He also, by some very special decision, not only got put on the list, but got put at the top of the list.

There are currently many questions being raised about the five Male Doctors who mostly decide who gets a transplant of any organ.
Statistics evidently show that it is a remarkably higher number of transplants that go to MEN, not women........
The doctors, when questioned said that it is a matter of organ "size" in many cases, which was quickly dispelled by prior research, preparing for them to use that argument...........

[Irish_Dem]

61. White males with money and power.

Just like when BushJr asked Cheney to put together a list of possible VP candidates.
Cheney handed him a list and Cheneys' name was on the top of the list.

[DENVERPOPS]

62. That,

and classically, most Dr's I have ever known are Republican voters, and remain so, no matter how the Republican Politicians take aim at them.......and many/most Republican men have the attitude that women are for childbearing and child raising, and that is it.....

[Evolve Dammit]

66. And GHW called Dubya, Rummy and Cheney" the crazies." Project for New American Century."

[Irish_Dem]

68. But now they look like pillars of sanity compared to the PutinTrumpGOP crime syndicate and buffoons.

[Evolve Dammit]

71. Yeah. The list of signators was alarming at the time but is now "quaint".

[Irish_Dem]

73. Yes now all of it sounds so quaint and old fashioned.

Last edited Thu Dec 12, 2024, 07:41 PM - Edit history (1)

But every time the GOP broke the rules and did wrong, it desensitized us for what was to come.
US being taken over by a ruthless crime syndicate

[Evolve Dammit]

75. Alberto Gonzales and the Geneva Convention torture language....

[Irish_Dem]

76. Yes illegal invasion, depleted uranium bombing of Bagdad, city with over 50% women and children.

Torture chambers carefully designed by experts.

BushJr a long time and serious alcoholic, probably cocaine too.
I never saw him sober in videos at the time.
VP Cheney running the show.

[Evolve Dammit]

65. We ain't seen nothin' yet...No guardrails

[Irish_Dem]

67. Yes first time was training wheels time.

Now they are armed and very dangerous.
No guardrails, rules of law, congressional or judicial oversight.

They can do what they want out in the open.

[Evolve Dammit]

69. "Immune." SCOTUS made an American king.

[Irish_Dem]

70. And now talk about a pardon.

Double immunity.

Yes Trump is emperor of North America for life.

[Evolve Dammit]

72. Total takeover. He will kill us all one way or another.

[Irish_Dem]

74. Yes human life means nothing to them.

The lives of Americans they are supposed to serve, and swear to protect, is of no consequence
and does not factor into decision making.

Except for the times Trump is in the mood to be sadistic and have fun.
Like he is telling his cabinet pics to "get wild and have fun."
By this he means have fun damaging and destroying as much as you want.
Trump gets turned on by this.

[mzmolly]

4. Oh goodness.

I'm so very sorry.

[GreenWave]

5. Ultra white collar crimes are not really viewed as crimes.

[LiberalArkie]

9. It is not a crime unless you hurt someone financially who is in a higher social class.

Example: Madoff and Kuschner

[DENVERPOPS]

47. Exactly

An excellent example was in Colorado during the S&L disaster. Michael Wise CEO of Silverado S&L was guilty of massive corruption and cost the U.S. Taxpayers TWO BILLION dollars for the bailout of his bank. He was smart and made Neil Bush one of his Board of Directors. A Texas judge dismissed the entire case against him the first day of the court trial in which he certainly would have been found guilty. He walked away.........

Then he started a bogus financial firm in Aspen that bilked a half dozen millionaires out of their "investments". They nailed his ass and he spent years in Leavenworth.........

[WarGamer]

7. Here's the difference.

Shooting someone on the street is ILLEGAL.

The current health insurance system operates between legal lines DRAFTED BY CONGRESS over the decades.

Blame politicians.

If it was ILLEGAL to deny coverage... they wouldn't do it.

[Eko]

10. One is a illegal murder and one is a legal murder.

Still murder. My Dad didn't deserve that in any way. Whoever decided that he wouldn't get insulin sure as shit killed him as the person who shot the CEO.

[people]

45. So very sorry to Hear about your dad

Outrageous that your dad couldn't get insulin in this country. Absolutely criminal and horrible.

[soandso]

23. This is exactly right

We have a system that enables or green lights this shit. Congress, courts and bureaucrats. I don't why it's so hard for some people to understand that while murder is wrong, corporate abuse which can result in misery or death is just as wrong and so people are conflicted about it.

[dpibel]

27. Illegal, immoral, and gray areas

You do know that, as an avid poster on these threads has pointed out, the majority of initial denials of coverage are ultimately resolved in the patient's favor (as long as the patient is still alive).

IOW, assuming this prolific pro-insurance poster is correct, the majority of initial denials are improper.

Now, here's a fun question for you: If you do something negligent--just out of the clear blue, let's say deny medical treatment that should, by contract and by law, be provided--and someone dies, is there a legal term for that?

It's not murder. But I think it's close.

You are pretending that there are clear and obvious categories. A person as smart as you knows that's not at all the case.

Obviously, no prosecutor is going to charge an insurance company, or its claims denier, or its CEO with manslaughter for causing a death through negligence. But that's not because the elements of the crime aren't there. It's because that sort of thing simply isn't done.

BTW: A whole bunch of insurance law is drafted by states, not BY CONGRESS.

[WarGamer]

34. thanks for adding that... YES State laws are equally responsible. +100

[dpibel]

36. Fair enough

But anything on the substance?

You know. The part about negligent killing?

[Blue Full Moon]

28. Germany during 1930s had it legal.

[Silent Type]

8. Sorry about your dad. Can you mention the company that denied it?

[Eko]

13. Thanks.

I'm not really sure who it was. I think I have some old bills in a box that would tell me in my closet somewhere.

[Silent Type]

17. Don't worry about it. At least nowadays insulin is somewhat affordable.

[quakerboy]

30. Sorta. They are still playing lots of games

Ive been helping a few neighbors do the dance.

They will be approved by insurance for one brand of insulin, not another. But they wont tell the DR in an easily accessable format which brands the insurance covers, nor the exact dose they cover. So then the dr writes the prescription based on what they see as the your medical actual needs. Then the patient goes to the pharmacy only to find out that dosage makes the bottle cover 35 days instead of 30, so the insurance doesnt cover it at the $35, and they still have to pay $105 or whatever.

So the patient gets that information, goes back for another medical visit, and they adjust the dosage to make it work. All good.. until the medicine manufacturers realize that with the new deals they dont make quite as much, so they stop making as much, or change one little thing so they can discontinue the "inexpensive" version. Now the pharmacy(and others in the area) is out of stock of the one insurance covers, so the patient gets to either do without or pay full price for a different brand or "model" that insurance doesn't cover.

Then I help them look on the marketplace to see if there's a plan that provides better coverage for the next year. And each plan covers one, or another, but none cover them all. Most of the time, there are several listings for the same drug (same name, brand, dosage, form, all details provided exactly identical), and 1 entry will be covered but another will not. How can one plan both cover and exclude the same exact insulin?

[orleans]

32. what a wonderful thing you do, helping neighbors with this insurance madness.

if i was in their position i know i'd be needing help and i'd love and appreciate all the help anyone could give me.

i have no doubt they feel the same way.

thank you for being such a kind hearted and thoughtful quakerboy

[Tribetime]

40. Little off subject my dog was poisoned nd destroyed her pancreas

Didn't eat for 5 weeks developed diabetes and Insulin cost about 700 per month to keep her alive from CVS...fortunately Walmart had Novalin N which was an off brand that worked which was way cheaper.. and only they had it. If not for that I don't know what would have happened to my my loyal pet who was blind for 5 yrs from that

[D23MIURG23]

11. K&R

[Hekate]

12. I'm sorry for your loss, and completely understand

Someone will be along soon to tell us how health insurance companies are only trying to protect us from cheating, over-billing hospitals and doctors.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

14. Your dad mattered less than an insurance exec according to their defenders.

After all, the exec dying was a heinous murder! Your dad? Just a meaningless statistic. (And I'm truly sorry that he had to go that way.)

Lines have been drawn in the sand. The Haves vs. the Have Nots.

And the Haves are doing everything they can to stifle the rest of us.

[Eko]

15. Yup, just a meaningless statistic.

[Arazi]

16. With you on this 100%

These healthcare CEOs are murderers just as much as Mangione.

Really sorry for your loss. Almost everyone has horror stories and they matter.

[onecaliberal]

18. Hugs. 🤗

So many of us…

[BlueMTexpat]

19. Or get

elected President!

[fierywoman]

21. Exactly: kill tens or hundreds of thousands and win a presidency.

[DENVERPOPS]

49. AND folks,

I hate to tell you, but YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET.

People talk about Trump, but those who are even more complicit are the RepubliCON U.S. Senators, House members, and Red State Governors who TOTALLY facilitated the president or he couldn't have pulled it off...................

In my thinking, they are even more to blame than Trump.............

[Disaffected]

20. That's horrible.

But may I ask, on what grounds was his treatment denied (or was the cost of insulin beyond his reach)?

[IbogaProject]

22. Horrible

Big pharma, the business focused medical pros and for prifit insurance all play their evil parts.

[Initech]

24. "The death of one person is a tragedy, the death of many is a statistic." - Josef Stalin

[Cirsium]

25. The law

The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common,
But turns the bigger robber loose
Who steals the common from off the goose.

The law demands that we atone
When we take things we do not own,
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine.

The poor and wretched don’t escape
If they conspire the law to break.
This must be so, but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law.

The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common,
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

26. I'm so sorry for your loss n/t

[elleng]

29. 'Krista Monroe, a former UnitedHealthcare employee who says she worked under CEO Brian Thompson

'Krista Monroe, a former UnitedHealthcare employee who says she worked under CEO Brian Thompson
in the Medicare department, shared a scathing account of the company’s internal practices in a now-viral video. Monroe alleges that the company’s policies were designed to maximize profits at the expense of patients, particularly the elderly. Her experience shines a light on how insurance companies exploit systemic flaws to deny essential care and leave patients struggling to survive.

“They would deny almost everything immediately, right, with very little to valid reason,” Monroe revealed in her video. “A lot of it was they banked on the fact that a lot of people were elderly, and if they made the process difficult enough, they would just say screw it and either pay for it or not get the service.”'

https://polinews.org/apparent-employee-of-united-healthcare-shares-her-experience-working-for-ceo-brian-thompson-in-medicare-department/?

[orleans]

33. it doesn't sound like the person in the video is krista monroe since

krista monroe tweeted the video and said:

ATTN: Everyone!

You have got to listen to this testimonial from someone who worked directly under Brian Thompson in the Medicare dept.

If this doesn't make your blood boil, I demand to see proof of life.

We have got to handle this once and for all. Because she's right-- it's enough to make any of us snap.

if it is the same person then she is referring to herself as "someone" instead of saying "i worked directly..."
and she's saying, about herself: "because she's right.."

it's a bit confusing ...

but that video is powerful

[Turbineguy]

31. Kill a million

get elected President.

[Baron2024]

35. Sorry For The Loss Of Your Dad

Corporate corruption is a terrible thing, especially when it comes to life and death issues and health care. We need Medicare For All yesterday. Keep fighting the good fight.

[moondust]

37. It's not slavery.

But getting wealthy by devising ways to deny other people the health care they need after they have paid you for coverage might be considered another form of predation IMO.

[Skittles]

38. THEY ARE BOTH MURDERERS

BOTH ARE WRONG

[McDivitt]

39. An Angering Disconnect

When you say “Kill one person, go to jail; kill thousands, get a bonus,” it resonates like a critique of how certain harmful actions by large entities—be they corporations, governments, or systems—often seem to have no real accountability. For example, if a pharmaceutical company sets the price of insulin so high that people can’t afford it, and that lack of access leads to preventable deaths, it can feel like those responsible are indirectly “killing” people. Yet, instead of facing prison, those at the top might get bonuses and shareholder dividends. It’s an angering disconnect.

[Emile]

42. Welcome to du!

[TBF]

41. Malcolm X and nonviolence - 60 years ago

Malcolm was talking about black nationalism (and I would argue you could make a good argument for self-defense with these words, and also apply to modern issues).

"Concerning nonviolence: it is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law."

Malcolm X: A Declaration of Independence (March 12, 1964)

Because 1964 threatens to be a very explosive year on the racial front, and because I myself intend to be very active in every phase of the American Negro struggle for human rights, I have called this press conference this morning in order to clarify my own position in the struggle—especially in regard to politics and nonviolence ...

more here -- https://www.icit-digital.org/articles/malcolm-x-a-declaration-of-independence-march-12-1964

[LexVegas]

43. Some believe those two are equivalent crimes. nt

[dlilafae]

44. Daddy died from cancer

A new med became available, and they approved it when it would no longer do him any good.

[Trellastic]

53. Condolences to you for the avoidable passing of your dad and to others who have lost loved ones in similar circumstances

This world is filled with terrible suffering and injustice, but someday the tables will turn.

New English Translation
31 The one who oppresses[a] the poor has insulted his Creator,
but whoever honors him shows favor[c] to the needy.

Revelation 18:11
New English Translation
11 Then[a] the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn for her because no one buys their cargo any longer—

Revelation 18:23
New English Translation
23 Even the light from a lamp
will never shine in you again!
The voices of the bridegroom and his bride
will never be heard in you again.
For your merchants were the tycoons of the world,
because all the nations[a] were deceived by your magic spells!

BibleGateway

[Richard_GB]

57. This has to be the perfect case for jury nullification

If Rittenhouse can walk so can Luigi.

[cer7711]

63. Reminds me of an old Wizard of ID cartoon...

(Squire rushes into throne room): "Sire! Sire! The peasants are revolting!"

King (morosely): "How true."

[Cherokee100]

64. How sad

How sad about your dad. Rich people don't go to jail. Just us peasants. This country is going to 'burn' up, while the rich fly to their private islands, on their private jets.