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GPV

(73,093 posts)
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 09:43 AM Dec 29

In 2016, I left the Greens to become a Dem so that I could caucus for Bernie. By that point, I'd been a Green for more

than two decades. My dad was heavily involved in the party, and was running for the Maine State Legislature when he passed away. I was drawn into the leadership email chain to receive condolences, but even there I saw evidence of in-fighting. (The Greens of the early days had been more stable, less prone to attaching people like Jill Stein to it.) You other old-timers will remember that I started out here as GreenPartyVoter. I wasn't trying trying to stir up trouble. At that time I thought the left-leaning parties should work together to minimize the damage caused by ** and crew. But I can't tell you how many people freaked out over my username, saying it was my fault that Gore lost. That Nader was crazy for wanting to burn it all down and rebuild.

Which brings me to what I see here today. Lots of infighting, not just with us but within the Dem party. Absence of strong leadership. A sense of disconnection from the top and the base, except when money and votes are needed. The top is always around to secure those. It was hair-on-fire, don't let Trump get elected before. But now that he has been, aside from a few individuals, the frantic pressure from pre-election seems largely absent. And while I don't expect leadership to tip their hand to the Repubs, stronger reassurances that they've got this would be nice.

To bring this full circle, I'm just struck by echoes of the past. Watching the Greens drift ever further from their potential, splintering. The fiasco of the late removal of Biden from the ticket. And there are posts here exclaiming that we should let Trumple-thin-skin burn it all down now so we can rebuild later. I don't know. Maybe a system can only drift so far off center before it collapses. I guess it's like the climate catastrophe that way. Human beings don't see the crisis looming over them, either ignoring it or taking pointless baby steps-- feel good now but utterly useless in the long run green washing.

I guess I'm feeling like we're at a loss. Not just because of politics, but culturally. I work in education at the elementary level. There is a fundamental difference in this fully on-demand generation. A passivity, learned helplessness, lack of resilience. I think the movie Wall-E was pretty spot on. There will always be a few, like David Hogg, who will fight on, but I am nonplussed as to what the future holds. (To be above board, my millennials, elder and younger green kids were the start of this trend. I bought into the "everything should be fair and painless mindset," and while they are doing pretty well now, I still think I could have better prepared them for real life by not wrapping them in cotton wool.)

Anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for letting me ramble.

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In 2016, I left the Greens to become a Dem so that I could caucus for Bernie. By that point, I'd been a Green for more (Original Post) GPV Dec 29 OP
i have been a green, and a libertarian rampartd Dec 29 #1
I'm less convinced that change is coming anymore. GPV Dec 29 #6
i/m out of hope that we can hold the little we've made rampartd Dec 29 #12
Same. Trump 2.0 is gonna be disastrous GPV Dec 29 #23
i think it's a huge mistake to just accept the results of this election. mopinko Dec 29 #2
👍🏼 Clouds Passing Dec 29 #4
I hear ya. GPV Dec 29 #7
I've been singing this same tune. yellow dahlia Dec 29 #11
We need a workers revolution. Full stop. Now. ColinC Dec 29 #3
Unions are dying. I'm president of my local and I had to fight hard to grow from GPV Dec 29 #5
I'm discouraged at the vitriol aimed at progressives like AOC Arazi Dec 29 #8
"Maybe a system can only drift so far off center before it collapses." stopdiggin Dec 29 #9
No, I meant the US political system. Gop went so far right, we toppled over. GPV Dec 29 #14
I too am looking for reassurances that "they've got this". yellow dahlia Dec 29 #10
RCV ought to be a welcome change for you. OAITW r.2.0 Dec 29 #13
Actually, I don't. Still feels too risky, vote-splitting wise. :( GPV Dec 29 #15
Why? OAITW r.2.0 Dec 29 #16
If too many center left voters split in the first round, but majority center right GPV Dec 29 #17
I don't see that happening at all. OAITW r.2.0 Dec 29 #20
Maybe, but it still worries me. :( GPV Dec 30 #24
I always appreciated your posts. Even when you were using your old name. Crunchy Frog Dec 29 #18
Your experience with the younger generation is opposite of mine. Elessar Zappa Dec 29 #19
The same issues propel us forward, generation after generation. OAITW r.2.0 Dec 29 #21
I don't think the kids today are terrible. I just think too much screen time and GPV Dec 29 #22
To Assuage Your Concerns, Slightly... ProfessorGAC Dec 30 #25

rampartd

(1,140 posts)
1. i have been a green, and a libertarian
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 09:51 AM
Dec 29

but change, slow and unlikely as it seems, is only possible with the democrats.

and yes, bernie is still #1

mopinko

(72,051 posts)
2. i think it's a huge mistake to just accept the results of this election.
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 10:11 AM
Dec 29

btn the laws passed, the long lines, the bomb threats, eloon, this was not a free and fair election.
dem leaders shd b demanding investigations. after 2020, intel agencies came out and said it was secure. i have not heard such a declaration this time.

they dont want to b like magats, but investigating and denying r not the same. fight for our votes, damnit.

yellow dahlia

(398 posts)
11. I've been singing this same tune.
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 01:48 PM
Dec 29

Election interference, you bet! Bomb threats on election day at targeted precincts, and some of the polling places didn't reopen. This election was not free and fair, for so many reasons. And and the campaign and leadership rolled over on asking for hand recounts, because they didn't want to look like the "other guy".

ColinC

(11,061 posts)
3. We need a workers revolution. Full stop. Now.
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 10:48 AM
Dec 29

If there is one pro worker billionaire who can fund superpacs and lobbying for the next four years, there can be some pretty solid change very quickly.

Perhaps a coalition of current unions contributing to superpacs to start airing pro worker advertising for the next four years non stop?

GPV

(73,093 posts)
5. Unions are dying. I'm president of my local and I had to fight hard to grow from
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 11:10 AM
Dec 29

2 members to 4. The unenrolled are thankful for what we do, but can't quite get over that hurdle of dues. I get it. I was there, once. But I've learned that we are close to losing this local, and if that goes a lot of what we've fought for goes with it.

Arazi

(7,169 posts)
8. I'm discouraged at the vitriol aimed at progressives like AOC
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 12:37 PM
Dec 29

While it’s not as bad as it used to be, there’s still too much animosity towards progressives who were/are inspired by Bernie Sanders imo.

Earl’s new forum should allow for a more freewheeling discussion of how to re-build the Democratic party (and I’m hopeful your post isn’t alerted on 😞 )

stopdiggin

(13,112 posts)
9. "Maybe a system can only drift so far off center before it collapses."
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 12:39 PM
Dec 29

If this references the Democratic Party (as I took it to) - please explain to me how, and on what issues, Joe Biden and the party had become so 'off center'. Frankly I just can't see it.

Anyway, "Democrats in disarray .." Ever and always.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

yellow dahlia

(398 posts)
10. I too am looking for reassurances that "they've got this".
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 01:44 PM
Dec 29

The Dem leadership has been relying on - we will live to fight another day...in 2 years and 4 years. I am worried there will not be enough of the institutions left to fight for and within. I think we are clearly facing an existential threat.

Thank you for sharing your analysis - not a ramble at all.

OAITW r.2.0

(28,896 posts)
13. RCV ought to be a welcome change for you.
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 02:01 PM
Dec 29

Now you can vote your conscience and still vote for a better alternative than the Maine Republican Party.

OAITW r.2.0

(28,896 posts)
16. Why?
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 03:24 PM
Dec 29

What's risky about voting voting Green, but choosing your 2nd option as Democrat?

GPV

(73,093 posts)
17. If too many center left voters split in the first round, but majority center right
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 03:27 PM
Dec 29

voters go Repub, then we could lose.

OAITW r.2.0

(28,896 posts)
20. I don't see that happening at all.
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 04:15 PM
Dec 29

RCV ensures that RW nutbags - like Paul LePage - don't sneak into office because the voters got fractured by splitting the vote between 2 far better options..

Crunchy Frog

(27,179 posts)
18. I always appreciated your posts. Even when you were using your old name.
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 03:35 PM
Dec 29

I feel like this country is facing uncharted territory and our leadership doesn't realize it and has no idea how to deal with it. And some of them will prefer to hold on to their Congressional seats and pretend that everything's normal.

Anyway, get ready for the ride. We could be invading Canada and Greenland soon.

Elessar Zappa

(16,223 posts)
19. Your experience with the younger generation is opposite of mine.
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 03:46 PM
Dec 29

They seem fine and ready to tackle today’s issues. The Greatest Generation thought the Baby Boomers were terrible too and they turned out fine.

OAITW r.2.0

(28,896 posts)
21. The same issues propel us forward, generation after generation.
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 04:18 PM
Dec 29

Social justice, a fair playing field, and support of American values, like Democracy, abroad.

GPV

(73,093 posts)
22. I don't think the kids today are terrible. I just think too much screen time and
Sun Dec 29, 2024, 07:39 PM
Dec 29

hand holding or neglect have left them less scrappy and with fewer social skills than older generations. Other longtime teachers and I have remarked repeatedly on this, and no, it's not a "new generation, bad" thing. It's a screens bad, no imaginative play, no hands-on anything, living in a bubble so don't know how to relate to others kind of thing. We elder educators mourn the loss of shop, home ec, business courses, senior seminar/life skills. Maybe some schools still offer these things, but not here. I can't tell you how many guys I graduated with who might have dropped out if not for vo-tech classes keeping them in school. It was a big thing to work on cars and boats in shop.

I wish I could explain it more clearly. All I can say is, I tried teaching some 6th grade girls how to play cat's cradle. They were completely baffled, and done after three attempts. They were interested, but it was just too hard.

ProfessorGAC

(70,992 posts)
25. To Assuage Your Concerns, Slightly...
Mon Dec 30, 2024, 03:25 PM
Dec 30

Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2024, 05:27 PM - Edit history (1)

...the junior high & high schools around here still offer vocational classes & business courses as granular as "Retail Sales". One of the high schools has an auto shop that is state of the art, and the staff there actually has their auto repairs done there at a steep discount. (Students do get a modest pay for working on cars.) Facility is huge!
At least 4 high schools offer culinary & 3 have a partnership with a county vocational center so classes in hair, beauty, landscaping, and so on.
So, you may not be seeing what you'd like around there, but some places still do those things you support!

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