Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

William769

(56,708 posts)
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:40 AM Jan 25

Presidential historian foresees "disastrous end" for Donald Trump

Presidential historian Alexis Coe has predicted a perilous four years for the Trump administration, as well as the GOP as a whole.

In an op-ed for MSNBC, Coe said former President Grover Cleveland’s second term – which she described as “a tragedy in four years” – should serve as a “cautionary tale” for Donald Trump.

“In 1892, Cleveland, like Trump in 2024, was resurrected by unwavering party loyalty despite losing the previous election,” Coe wrote. “Both men, separated by time but united in their disdain for the ‘establishment,’ demanded fealty with the fervor of medieval kings suffering from lead poisoning.”

But both leaders, she explained, proved to be incapable of handling national crises.

“For Cleveland, a Democrat, it was the Panic of 1893, a severe economic depression triggered by railroad overbuilding and shaky financing, which set off a series of bank failures. Within months, unemployment skyrocketed to nearly 20%, over 15,000 companies and 500 banks failed, and farmers in the South and Midwest faced ruin as crop prices plummeted.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/presidential-historian-foresees-disastrous-end-for-donald-trump/ar-AA1xQIZ7?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=e2b6c4bd195e420b83dd0693ee9462b1&ei=23

71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Presidential historian foresees "disastrous end" for Donald Trump (Original Post) William769 Jan 25 OP
I hope she's right, but greatauntoftriplets Jan 25 #1
Me too! William769 Jan 25 #7
As the vulture on one of my favourite posters said, "Patience, my ass. . ." niyad Jan 25 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author AZJonnie Jan 25 #29
Yes, of course! It has been a while since I saw it. niyad Jan 25 #30
eagle, or vulture? LymphocyteLover Jan 25 #45
Vulture. niyad Jan 25 #64
We hope she is correct! niyad Jan 25 #16
Don't you mean "she's right"? mobeau69 Jan 25 #18
Thanks. greatauntoftriplets Jan 25 #23
Sadly, it's the only way enough maga will learn anything. louis-t Jan 25 #2
I don't think Trump will last 4 yrs. Historic NY Jan 25 #3
I want to stick with you! William769 Jan 25 #8
I have a feeling we will not see a full four years of Trump as well. Greybnk48 Jan 25 #26
Unless they rig the election BonnieJW Jan 25 #34
IF we're allowed to have elections Wicked Blue Jan 25 #44
Musk and Vance homegirl Jan 25 #47
I thought that in 2016. Aristus Jan 25 #42
Same here Dem4life1234 Jan 25 #58
I think drugs MFM008 Jan 25 #62
I read it's bad for the heart Dem4life1234 Jan 25 #63
Vance will push him out after the mid terms. Callie1979 Jan 25 #51
Given how he looked this week, I think Father Time will be arriving soon. LonePirate Jan 25 #54
The only solace is that he isn't in his 40s Dem4life1234 Jan 26 #69
I'm looking for a quicker "disastrous end" for Trump...before he totally devastates America's economy. sop Jan 25 #4
I think he will be removed BonnieJW Jan 25 #35
Vance has a benefactor liberalgunwilltravel Jan 25 #40
Wow, what a surprise! moondust Jan 25 #5
The sooner the better. Ocelot II Jan 25 #6
Amen to that! William769 Jan 25 #11
I believe that's inevitable. I just pray the oligarchs he's installing go down with everyone else on this Titanic voyage Texin Jan 25 #24
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Mike 03 Jan 25 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author William769 Jan 25 #10
From the article at the link: madaboutharry Jan 25 #12
This! Dem4life1234 Jan 26 #68
So, a disaster for the country, and Trump stays in power if he lives that long? muriel_volestrangler Jan 25 #13
The blatantly corrupt, out of control SCOTUS will Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 26 #65
The trump steamer. Turbineguy Jan 25 #14
The disastrouser the better Orrex Jan 25 #15
I hope it ends badly for him ITAL Jan 25 #17
Trump's rash actions and massive initial assault on government pfitz59 Jan 25 #20
I'm hoping for the Mussolini or Hitler ending. Mussolini is more likely than chicoescuela Jan 25 #21
Wasn't it a bridge? BonnieJW Jan 25 #36
Post removed Post removed Jan 25 #41
Wikipedia says it was at a service station. Ok with me chicoescuela Jan 25 #61
I don't hope for this Nasruddin Jan 25 #22
I see another Great Republican Depression in the Emile Jan 25 #25
It's likely to be a Crypto Crash. LudwigPastorius Jan 25 #53
Agree. 2008 redux. Strelnikov_ Jan 26 #70
I agree with the historian except for kellytore Jan 25 #27
"Disastrous" end for Trump? How about for the rest of us? That mother fucker will bring us down too. dem4decades Jan 25 #28
That sounds like disaster for us, not Trump. yardwork Jan 25 #31
I'm not so sure SpankMe Jan 25 #32
I see issues with every one of those points, although they all, are certainly relevant. Martin68 Jan 25 #38
Unfortunately, I Fear many of Those Outcomes, Which We Might See As Disastrous, The Roux Comes First Jan 25 #33
This is pretty much what I've been saying. This administration is an empty house of cards with no coherent strategy or Martin68 Jan 25 #37
The Banks Will Fail Deep State Witch Jan 25 #39
I fully agree. Trump was bad in his first term, but his loss to Biden changed him for the worse...much worse. patphil Jan 25 #43
This is the era of TV and social media brainwashing Mysterian Jan 25 #46
Everything Trump touches dies. NameAlreadyTaken Jan 25 #48
Haven't we here already done that? ananda Jan 25 #49
That's a stretch Cirsium Jan 25 #50
This does not help us NOW though. alarimer Jan 25 #52
Yet Cleveland wasn't a felon Dem4life1234 Jan 25 #55
Mussolini disasterous? edhopper Jan 25 #56
And in 1893, Cleveland's Democratic party were also the conservatives, weren't they? Beartracks Jan 25 #57
I hope she turns out to be a better academic historian futurologist anamnua Jan 25 #59
That is assuming we'll have free and fair elections going forward... Wounded Bear Jan 25 #60
Doesn't the dotard owe Vlad and his gang some favours? IzzaNuDay Jan 26 #66
Oh please let it be true. GoodRaisin Jan 26 #67
I'll be counting the days but I'm not going to hold my breath? ArnoldLayne Jan 26 #71

Response to niyad (Reply #19)

louis-t

(23,956 posts)
2. Sadly, it's the only way enough maga will learn anything.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:48 AM
Jan 25

I think the repug party will suffer the same fate as in the McCarthy era - 40 years in the minority. Unfortunately, this country will have to go through some things before that happens.

Greybnk48

(10,471 posts)
26. I have a feeling we will not see a full four years of Trump as well.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:51 PM
Jan 25

No evidence. Just a feeling.
I also fully believe we will gain back both the House and the Senate in 26.

homegirl

(1,635 posts)
47. Musk and Vance
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 02:09 PM
Jan 25

will support impeachment and trial of Donald in two years. Vance moves into Oval Office and is eligible to run for two terms!

Though Trump is wily enough to dump Musk within six months, after squeezing another $250 million out of him!

Aristus

(69,075 posts)
42. I thought that in 2016.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 01:42 PM
Jan 25

I was wrong. I can't imagine what is keeping that lard-riddled heart going. Trump still being alive at this point is likely a testament to the power of the kind of mulish stubbornness that comes with near-total ignorance.

Dem4life1234

(2,426 posts)
58. Same here
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 02:54 PM
Jan 25

The man is hideously obese, tall (usually tall men don't live that long) AND has a terrible diet and doesn't exercise. He looks terrible.

What the fuck keeps him going? I'm convinced these evil people seem to live too long, it's as if the Devil wants to keep them playing games on Earth.

BonnieJW

(2,716 posts)
35. I think he will be removed
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 01:13 PM
Jan 25

I think that was the plan all along. Trump was merely the tool to get into the Whitehouse. Vance is the one they've been grooming.

40. Vance has a benefactor
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 01:34 PM
Jan 25

But no following. I have no doubt the oligarchs would/will try to use him, but I don’t see him being the e least bit effective.

Texin

(2,692 posts)
24. I believe that's inevitable. I just pray the oligarchs he's installing go down with everyone else on this Titanic voyage
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:45 PM
Jan 25

Response to William769 (Original post)

madaboutharry

(41,614 posts)
12. From the article at the link:
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:55 AM
Jan 25
She concluded by reminding readers that “in the theater of American politics, the most tragic plays are often those we’ve seen before.”


Hopefully, the curtain on the play we are now watch closes sooner than later. Maybe he will demonstrate such a degree of insanity that his own loyalists will have no choice but to abandon him. 🤞

Dem4life1234

(2,426 posts)
68. This!
Sun Jan 26, 2025, 10:38 AM
Jan 26

Needs to hurry up, I've never seen a president move so fast with the amount of damage he is doing. This can't last four years.

muriel_volestrangler

(103,003 posts)
13. So, a disaster for the country, and Trump stays in power if he lives that long?
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 11:55 AM
Jan 25

They don't predict how rich he'll make himself in the 4 years. That's how he'll measure "disaster" for himself - unless someone arrests him, but the current Supreme Court has given him a Get Out Of Jail Free card, so that seems unlikely.

ITAL

(962 posts)
17. I hope it ends badly for him
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:28 PM
Jan 25

I think she's being a bit unfair the Cleveland for comparing him to Trump. He wasn't anything like Trump temperamentally.

pfitz59

(11,296 posts)
20. Trump's rash actions and massive initial assault on government
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:29 PM
Jan 25

will bite him as the bureaucracy slaps back. Folks will not allow their lives to be disrupted without a fight. Lawsuits and pushback are coming. The greatest worry will be a 'Reichstag Fire' type event. The opposition may be rocked by the flurry of 'Executive Orders', but it won't last. Too much is at risk.

chicoescuela

(1,839 posts)
21. I'm hoping for the Mussolini or Hitler ending. Mussolini is more likely than
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:36 PM
Jan 25

Hitler I think.
Would love you see tsf and Melanie hanging upside down from a lamppost.

Response to BonnieJW (Reply #36)

Nasruddin

(950 posts)
22. I don't hope for this
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:41 PM
Jan 25

Because a lot of people (and camels) will be harmed, perhaps even me!
I fear it though - we have seen what he is like in a crisis.

The best we can hope for is that he is somehow neutralized or perhaps ejected off the stage, in some peaceful manner.

LudwigPastorius

(11,597 posts)
53. It's likely to be a Crypto Crash.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 02:35 PM
Jan 25

After Trump uses real dollars to establish a "crypto reserve", and loosens regulations so the banks start piling capital into the phunny munny, it is inevitable.

Strelnikov_

(7,894 posts)
70. Agree. 2008 redux.
Sun Jan 26, 2025, 11:13 AM
Jan 26

Between crypto, dropping of the post 08 regulations, and no FDIC as cherry on top, a depression level crash appears very likely.

kellytore

(217 posts)
27. I agree with the historian except for
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:51 PM
Jan 25

the fact that TSF is a cult leader and most of his followers would die for him. I'm not so sure if Cleveland had the same following.

SpankMe

(3,368 posts)
32. I'm not so sure
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 01:08 PM
Jan 25

Trump has four things that Cleveland didn't have -

1. Control of the most widespread communications network in history, in the form of the fealty of Elon Musk (X), Mark Zuckerberg (Meta-Facebook-Instagram) and Jeff Bezos (Amazon Web Services that can host the prior two).

2. Unconditional support of just over a third of the voting American electorate with another third or so committed to non-voting due to apathy, ignorance and complete indifference.

3. Total control of a law enforcement entity (DOJ/FBI) and military (DOD) that didn't exist in any full-formed way in Cleveland's era.

4. An installed base of corrupt judges who will do his bidding at every turn.

Getting Trump to "not end well" with an American public as stupid and indifferent as they are is a tall order.

I'm losing hope. This week has been a disaster. I didn't think this much damage to our federal institutions and infrastructure was possible. The parallel to the rise of the Nazi's is stunning, and we can't even talk about it on social media without being censored.

I see a strong possibility of violence entering the conversation before this term is up. I'm shaken to my core.

Martin68

(24,938 posts)
38. I see issues with every one of those points, although they all, are certainly relevant.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 01:30 PM
Jan 25

1. The communication network is run by competing egos with conflicting agendas. It is a rats nest of crossed wires and a bottomless pit of lies, deceit and misinformation. That's not a strength when it comes to communication. It just causes confusion.

2. I don't believe Trump has unconditional support from more than maybe 15% of the electorate. The rest will dump him like a hot potato when the economic pain hits. And secure economic pain is inevitable if Trump carries out his promises, particularly in the heartland that believed his lies.

3. Theoretically the president has a good deal of authority over law enforcement entity (DOJ/FBI) and military (DOD), but it is not anywhere near "total." The military, in particular, is very resistant to the whims of a fool. It is filled with people who have devoted their lives to defending the US, and if Trump does anything to put the country in danger, and you can be sure he will, they will balk.

4. Yes, corrupt judges appointed by Trump have already caused a great deal of damage, but Obama and Biden appointed many judges who will stick to the rule of law. SCOTUS is conservative, but they have a majority that will draw the line at Patently unconstitutional presidential decrees. Some of them already have.

The Roux Comes First

(1,617 posts)
33. Unfortunately, I Fear many of Those Outcomes, Which We Might See As Disastrous,
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 01:08 PM
Jan 25

Probably appear as features to this pathetic specimen, who delights in chaos and has never overdosed on attention yet. Sort of like the worst-parented kindergartner you have ever encountered.

Martin68

(24,938 posts)
37. This is pretty much what I've been saying. This administration is an empty house of cards with no coherent strategy or
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 01:17 PM
Jan 25

agenda. Their agenda is so self-contradictory that it is bound to fail. That is not to say people won't suffer while they flail about in their cesspool of conflicting ideologies, goals, and just plain greed.

patphil

(7,375 posts)
43. I fully agree. Trump was bad in his first term, but his loss to Biden changed him for the worse...much worse.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 01:52 PM
Jan 25

He's now dedicated to destroying our nation out of spite. I see revenge and retribution as his purpose now.
The sad part is that he couldn't do this without the help of Congress and the Courts, and he has that help.
That plus the Broligarchs; men like Zukerberg, Besos, and Musk, whose unbridled greed has been given free reign across the US.
I agree that this should do great harm to the Republican Party, but maybe not. There is a possibility that the rule of law, the Constitution, may be as George W Bush once said, "nothing more than a piece of paper".
They want to see a new set of laws, ones that apply to everyone but them; laws that can be broken and reformed by them as it suits their need.
When I see 90 million adult American citizens not voting, I see a diminished future for all of us.
When I see many millions of people letting themselves be lead around by propaganda and lies; voting against their own best interests, I see a a diminished future for all of us.
This is why the anti-woke movement was pushed so hard by the Republicans. The less awake a person is, the easier it is to have them fall under the spell of propaganda and lies.
It will take all the strength and determination the people of the United States can muster to stop this, and put our country back on the true path of law.
We have 4 years to do this.

Mysterian

(5,288 posts)
46. This is the era of TV and social media brainwashing
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 02:01 PM
Jan 25

No comparison to the era of Grover Cleveland. We're dealing with a cult of zombies that would see their Dear Leader take the nation to ruins and blame it on liberals.

Cirsium

(1,704 posts)
50. That's a stretch
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 02:21 PM
Jan 25

Grover Cleveland was like Trump?

As mayor of Buffalo in 1881 and governor of New York in 1882, he closely cooperated with state assembly minority leader Theodore Roosevelt to pass reform measures.

He was opposed to tariffs.

He won praise for honesty, self-reliance, integrity, and commitment to the principles of classical liberalism.

He signed the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887 which made the railroad industry the first industry subject to federal regulation by a regulatory body.

He opposed the push to annex Hawaii, launched an investigation into the 1893 coup against Queen Liliʻuokalani, and called for her to be restored.

After leaving the White House, Cleveland served as a trustee of Princeton University and continued to voice his political views. Cleveland joined the American Anti-Imperialist League in protest of the 1898 Spanish-American War.

Cleveland was not a great president by any meas, and his support for the Dawes Act and suppression of the Pullman strike were egregious. But the comparison to Trump strikes me as an historian looking for ways to advance themselves as a popular media figure similar to the ridiculous "Team of Rivals" comparisons between Obama and Lincoln made by Doris Kearns Goodwin.

alarimer

(16,807 posts)
52. This does not help us NOW though.
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 02:32 PM
Jan 25

I don't give a shit about history; I care about stopping him NOW.

He's still getting rich and his cronies are still getting rich off him and they will all get away with it and keep their ill-gotten gains, so spare me the "history will not be kind" nonsense.

Wounded Bear

(61,248 posts)
60. That is assuming we'll have free and fair elections going forward...
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 03:03 PM
Jan 25

I hope so, but repub ratfucking will continue apace.

IzzaNuDay

(851 posts)
66. Doesn't the dotard owe Vlad and his gang some favours?
Sun Jan 26, 2025, 03:48 AM
Jan 26

If anything, if the dotard doesn’t pay up, could lead to disastrous results.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Presidential historian fo...