Is Monica Lewinsky's blue dress a relevant issue when discussing Hillary Clinton?

[geek tragedy]

A very prominent critic of Senator Clinton (prominent at DU) has argued that the fact that a certain stain found on a blue dress turned out to have originated from the Clenis, that this means we should be less trustful of former Secretary and Senator Hillary Clinton, referring to the cumstains on the blue dress as a "relevant fact."

Personally, I think blowjobs that took place almost two decades ago are irrelevant and unworthy of discussion. If one wants to oppose Hillary Clinton's candidacy, there's plenty of other stuff (Iraq war vote, palling around with Kissinger) to talk about.

Which is correct?

26 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes, the fact that Bill lied about a blowjob is relevant to Hillary's candidacy
	0 (0%)
	No, the fact that Bill lied about a blowjob is irrelevant to Hillary's candidacy
	26 (100%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[AtomicKitten]

1. Why not? They sold themselves as a package deal.

If by dress you mean the sordid mess surrounding the dress.

[msanthrope]

12. So Hilary can claim the success of the Clinton Presidency is hers? nt

[AtomicKitten]

18. she already has and does

[msanthrope]

20. Well....then I look forward to her third term. nt

[AtomicKitten]

25. she is inevitabler than ever

[Scootaloo]

58. Well, if Gore had done so, we wouldn't have had to deal with Bush at all...

[geek tragedy]

19. So every job created under the Clinton presidency also counts in her favor then? nt

[Beacool]

23. Gee, I didn't know that she was Bill's mother.

I thought that he was old enough to be responsible for his own actions.

[hrmjustin]

34. So according to your logic you give her credit for his successes, right?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

60. Something is wrong with this board, I see your question but no answers...what happened?

Did the software break with that question? Or more accurately, did it break when nobody could answer your question?

[hrmjustin]

64. .

[AtomicKitten]

72. I answered it for the 1st responder to my post

Odd that others chose to ask the same question. Do you need me to draw you a map to the response?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

75. Can I download it onto my phone? LOL no thanks, I can bet what your answer is

[AtomicKitten]

76. or you could like read it

[hrmjustin]

82. Actually you didn't answer my question.

Do you personal give her credit for his successes?

[NaturalHigh]

115. That works for me.

I'm looking forward to Clinton 3.0!

[hrmjustin]

116. Me too!

[wyldwolf]

80. you didn't vote in the poll. Why not go on the record?

[AtomicKitten]

84. It's a badly worded poll.

And I answered your question in the post you responded to.

If by dress you mean the sordid mess surrounding the dress.

[wyldwolf]

85. Yet you're arguing a position.

[uponit7771]

98. said conservatives

[still_one]

105. Bullshit. As the OP stated there are legitimate criticisms, but this is just a straw man and only

Points to the irrational thought process of the Hillary haters

[bigwillq]

2. Yes

solely because I find it hysterical that this much attention is being given to a critic on a message board. WTG, Critic! You've earned my YES vote!

[stone space]

3. I thought it was yellow. (nt)

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. The dress? No.

Her response and role in the aftermath, though, probably does still affect how some voters perceive her, whether or not anyone on DU feels it's of any importance in current discussions. Not every voter gives as much attention to 'wonky' political things, some simply read checkout counter magazines.

[geek tragedy]

6. certainly some think it's relevant. The question is whether people at DU think

raising the blue dress is a legit discussion in the Democratic primary, or whether it's superfluous crap.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

13. I don't think it's going to change a single vote that wasn't already decided years ago.

Whatever impact it has or had is already baked into the electoral math.

So you can discuss it, but it's a waste of time to do so.

[Beacool]

22. Yeah, like what, choosing to remain married?

That's her business and no one else's.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. It's great that you think so.

But that doesn't mean that every voter agrees with you.

Reality is taking into account how other people actually DO think, not how they SHOULD think in an ideal world.

[Beacool]

39. We live in a puritanical country where hypocrisy reigns.

Including on this site (I'm not referring to you). The only affairs that tick me off are the ones committed by those who then have the unmitigated gall to point fingers at someone else for their failings. I'm talking about weasels like Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde and a slew of other Republicans. I would also include John Edwards, who back in the 90s had the nerve to extol his own marriage and point a finger at Clinton.

It's not the sin itself that drives me nuts, it's the hypocrisy of people who have sinned even worse, but still think that they have the right to judge others.

[Hekate]

44. Bingo

Thank you

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

46. While I mostly agree with that,

I think there is some value to hiding your own feet of clay if you're otherwise inspirational. If you actually can inspire others to be better people than you yourself secretly are, there's value in that for them. Finding out the truth about you might cause them to disregard and abandon the other good things you were a part of leading them to do. But as you say, if you're going to do that, you shouldn't be throwing stones at others who also fall short of being perfect humans, especially in the exact same way.

[Still Sensible]

5. Let's talk about Bibi's blowjob instead

did Boehner and McCain clean that shit off their chin yet?

[geek tragedy]

7. now there's a real scandal nt

[hrmjustin]

11. .

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

65. LOL

[uponit7771]

99. that's not right!!

[hrmjustin]

8. No Hillary is her own person and not responsible for his sins.

[Beacool]

9. I find the issue utterly sexist.

I don't care if it's Hillary or any other woman, no wife or girlfriend is responsible for her man's penis. I'm only responsible for my conduct, not my partner's.

[hrmjustin]

15. Agreed!

[geek tragedy]

17. That's my take, DU jury disagreed nt

[DawgHouse]

26. +1

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

66. The definition of sexist.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Geek, this board is a place for some people to exhaust their negative energy.

If you take them seriously they win.

[geek tragedy]

16. .

If a person takes a 1995 blowjob seriously, I tend to not take that person seriously.

[Beacool]

30. I'll take Bill's 9 BJ's (yes, Starr took note of the total number)

over the Bush years and subsequent lousy economy and high unemployment.

Then, that's just me. I don't give a flying fig who's getting serviced as long as it's not my guy.

[geek tragedy]

35. Bush fucked the entire country plus a good chunk of the planet nt

[In_The_Wind]

14. This

[Autumn]

21. The bj certainly is irrelevant. If it's in response to another poster bringing Monica

up in their post or OP about criticism of Hillary it would be an appropriate response and a reasonable discussion since if Hillary becomes President then Bill would be First Man and the bj is a fact. Which the bj was a fact

[msanthrope]

42. Discussion of a twenty year old blowjob is a "reasonable discussion?" nt

[Autumn]

45. If a poster responds to a post where it is referred to yes it is. n/t

[msanthrope]

47. Can you cite where that blowjob was referred to? nt

[Autumn]

49. I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night so I'm not interested in citing

anything. You would have to look for that yourself.

[msanthrope]

50. So you are suggesting a hypothetical, then? As to when it would be appropriate

to discuss a 20 year old blow job?

[Autumn]

52. The OP stated it was brought up by another poster on DU so I guess it's someones hypothetical. n/t

[hifiguy]

24. Absolutely and completely irrelevant. nt

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

68. It is relevant in that anyone who would bring it up, in this context, is telling us much about who

they are or what their agenda is.

[Cha]

27. I voted NO since you didn't have

"Hell NO". We know who will be bringing that up though.. the desperate teabagger candidates IF she's the Dem candidate.

[William769]

29. The only people it was relevant to back then were the psycho repukes

And only people it's relevant to today are the same people.

They lost back then, they will lose again now and they will keep losing because that's what loser's do.

[TexasProgresive]

31. No the dress was never relevant.

It should never have been brought up by Ken Starr in the 1st place and he never should've asked Bill Clinton about having sexual relations with Lewinski, since it was immoral but know illegal and had nothing to do with the case he was trying to make against Clinton. It was a sad attempt to embarrass the Clintons and sadly Bill lied giving them some ammo.

So the dress has nothing to do with HRC.

[glasshouses]

32. Only that she continued to stay married to a man

that repeatedly cheated and had affairs on her to only further her own political aspirations .

Shows lack of character

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. I believe there was a Jewish carpenter who said...

[glasshouses]

37. Still doesn't change the fact what I wrote is true

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. We all are fallen./NT

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

48. But we sinners can still hurl dead cats, then, right? nt

[Scootaloo]

62. Are you suggesting that glsshouses stayed married to Bill Clinton for political reasons?

This is starting to sound like a very complicated soap opera.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. I was taught it's generally bad form to peer into other people's relationships

The whole "what goes on behind closed door" thing.

[hrmjustin]

40. Wow!

[glasshouses]

69. Tell me if this had been a GOP President and his wife

who continued to stay married after repeated affairs you would
feel the same way.

Same scenario where her political aspirations were very clear to eventually run for POTUS or some other high position in the federal government .

You can save your post because I know you would say that person lacks character to subject her self
to that abuse only to further her own political ambitions .

This is not a person who was trapped or abused like so many poor woman are in this country.
Some stay with the man because of fear or some other mental issues and it's clearly not the fault
of those women .

Hillary didn't stay because of fear or some other mental issue.
She stayed because politically it wasn't the right move .

Lack of character ..

[hrmjustin]

74. First off you should not presumd to speak for me.

Second I do not judge politicians private lives unless it is a case of clear hypocrisy.

Third you do not know why she stayed.

[Beacool]

93. Nope, I wouldn't have given an iota if Bush had cheated on Laura.

Their marriage was none of my, or anyone else's, business. I detest Bush for what he did to the country, not for who he may have slept with.

Martin Luther King cheated on his wife, so did John Kennedy, so did Franklin Roosevelt and so did Jesse Jackson and a slew of other men. Does their lack of fidelity lessen their accomplishments?

As for Hillary, you know squat about her. Have you met her, worked for her, attended a meeting with her? Have you ever heard her speak of Bill? If you had, you would have seen how animated she becomes. How she explains that the first thing that she noticed about him were his hands. Bill may be flawed, but she loves him.

Your judgmental self righteousness is downright depressing, considering that I assume you are a liberal.

[glasshouses]

95. My post wasn't about Bill Clinton or his accomplishments as POTUS

I know you're saying you wouldn't care if she was a republican during this but frankly I don't believe you.

You would have wrote what I wrote if she was a strong GOP challenger running in 2016


Just on a side note you asked me if I'm liberal ?

I'm far left liberal

but in my opinion Hillary isn't a liberal , she's closer to being a republican and I think we are making a big mistake with her.

[msanthrope]

43. Your username is ironic. nt

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

71. In our society women often stay with men they dont want to stay with because to not do so

is economically dangerous.

I sure hope all women dont have to answer to your set of rules and morals; only the powerful ones, please.

[Bobbie Jo]

89. First of all

That's her damn business. Full stop.

Your finger-wagging about "character" related to decisions about HER marriage smacks of RW morality scolding.

Yuck.

[Beacool]

91. Bullshit.

You don't know her to make that kind of judgment. At that point, Bill needed her much more than she needed him. It was pointed out at the time that he probably wouldn't have been able to remain in office if Hillary had walked out on him.

[LittleBlue]

113. I've always felt their marriage became one of political convenience

There are some very loving photos of them when they were young. Such a contrast to the coldness between them in the last 20 years.

I think the repeated cheating killed off whatever affection they had for one another, even before Bill was elected president. He had been with so many women before Monica, based on the sheer number of stories about his philandering. I think she has remained married to him for reasons other than love.

It's not relevant to her as far as a presidential run goes, but it is interesting. They seem like Frank and Claire Underwood from HOC.

[tularetom]

33. It's irrelevant until Bill injects himself into the campaign

Once he does, and you know he will, it's going to become an issue.

At that point, it becomes relevant because the media will keep bringing it up.

She can't use him as part of her campaign spiel and expect that the opposition keeps quiet about his faults.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. He campaigned for Kerry, Obama, and numerous other Democrats...

He was even here in L A campaigning for Wendy Greuel. She lost to Eric Garcetti who I supported.

That being said I don't remember the media discussing a nearly twenty year old "affair" but I don't want to discourage you from pursuing that line of attack.

[tularetom]

79. It doesn't matter to me that Clinton lied about a BJ

I have plenty of other reasons to oppose Ms Clinton's candidacy.

The question was is it relevant and my response is that it will become so if Clinton becomes a presence in the campaign, particularly if Ms Clinton receives the nomination and competes in the general election.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

83. If the Republicans want to make the election a referendum on the Clinton presidency...

If the Republicans want to make the election a referendum on the Clinton presidency I relish that challenge.

[KamaAina]

51. Huh? Her dress was green and gold!

I saw it with my own eyes!

[msanthrope]

54. Well played. nt

[Bonobo]

53. As a candidate, it is irrelevant.

In the same sense that it is irrelevant if a candidate has an affair. Personal matters of that kind don't matter much wrt their role as an elected leader.

[libodem]

55. In a world

With any sense of decency it would never have been an issue. I believe it was fomented and overseen from early on and then beaten to death like a dead horse, year after year. The humiliating flogging of someone who was contrite. Nobody cared. How it was kept in the courts for so long? It was manufactured just like Bengazi has been. Trumped up bs.

That being said look who you are dealing with. They don't play fair. It's ugly and relentless. I find the former first lady a national treasure. She is like a mother figure and an example of competency in law and government. And the Republicans are poised to start a shit show just to stink up the place.
It's especially hurtful to see the party of family values attack a woman, wife, and mother, but expect it. It will provoke our sympathy. And hurt our feelings.

Get used to it.

[SidDithers]

56. The right hates Hillary. The fringe left hates Hillary...

and they both appear comfortable using the same tactics against her.

Sid

[Scootaloo]

59. Ah, again with the left-baiting

Always maintain those fig-leaf words, Sid.

What exactly is the "fringe left' and how does it differ from 'the left' in general?

And don't go with circular arguments like "they're fringe" or "they hate Hillary."

[geek tragedy]

70. I'm not Sid (or Skinner) but the left tends to cleave

between those who are interested in what can be done, and those that seem more interested in posturing and asserting their sterling principals.

It's not unlike the schism that John Boehner has to deal with.

One group isn't any more leftwing than the other--indeed a person can be a clear-eyed dedicated socialist while recognizing that the institutions, power dynamics, voting patterns, etc in this country do not lend themselves to a lot of overnight change--the constitution was created to resist change, not create it, after all.

So, I don't think of it as left-baiting so much as describing those who are only interested in being a voice of opposition--never wanting the burden of governing, which inevitably means that icky compromise thing.

Indeed, the so-called squishy pragmatists are rarely the ones who say stuff like "we'd have been better off if McCain had won" or expressing indifference between democrats and republican policy platforms.

[think]

101. The left cares about her Iraq war vote, Goldman Sachs money, TPP, & Keystone. The RW cares not

about her stance on those issues as they are their own....

[longship]

57. Uhhhhh... Let me think... NOPE! nt

[uppityperson]

61. good god. eom

[tenderfoot]

63. It's relevant in that the GOP wasted 77 million on a partisan attack.

That led to Newt Gingrich's resignation.

[Rex]

73. No. Fuck no. Never. Why? The stupid burns us!!!!

I can't even believe it has to be brought up in a poll! The Blue Dress(tm) has no relevency to her or Bill Clintons ability to govern while in office. It might be the lamest and weakest claim I've ever read about. Someone here said it was relevant?

Fuckingplease. I'm not accusing someone of Hillary Hate, but I am not not accusing someone of Hillary Hate either.

SMH.

[stevenleser]

77. The part of the country that cares about this is the biggest consumer of porn. If that isn't ironic

... I don't know what is.

[mikehiggins]

78. If it doesn't fit

you must acquit.

[Agnosticsherbet]

81. Holding Hillary Clinton responsible for her husbands acts is Sexist.

We expect that from Republicans.

[Blue Owl]

86. Close but no cigar

n/t

[Dems to Win]

87. A vote for Hillary is a vote for Bill to become First Gentleman

Plenty of DUers criticized Anne Romney and presented their reasons they did not want her to be First Lady, as one of a million reasons NOT to vote for Mitt.

Bill Clinton is subject to the same scrutiny when seeking to return to the White House as First Gentleman. Knowing that, it's worthwhile for Democrats to consider whether the presumptive nominee's spouse, with his well known history, will be a help or hindrance to Democratic victory in the general election.

[hughee99]

88. Someone once said "Part of the campaign=fair game for Lady Stepford."

Of course, that was referring to a 17 year old Laura Bush running a stop sign and killing a classmate in a car accident.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x660892

[geek tragedy]

90. excellent use of the google.

Remind me again how many people the Clenis killed?

[hughee99]

92. I guess that depends on who you ask.

Explain to me how a first lady car accident 14 years before she met her husband is relevant, but cheating on the first lady in the oval office is not?

Personally, I don't think either is relevant, but that's not to say it won't play a role in the campaign.

[geek tragedy]

94. probably neither is, though some degree of partisanship will change perceptions.

I will confess to having a bitter, partisan bias against all things Bush.

[hughee99]

97. I completely understand the feeling.

I just couldn't help being a wiseass when I found it which only took a minute.

[Starry Messenger]

96. The next couple of years are going to rip away the veil from the undercurrents of misogyny in this country

like President Obama's campaigns unleashed the torrents of racism.

[PeteSelman]

100. I do not support Hillary, I don't think it's relevant, it's going to be trotted out repeatedly.

It's going to be brought up over and over.

[brooklynite]

102. The anti Hillary folks and the concern trolls really do seem desperate to find something...

[still_one]

107. isnt that the truth

[Generic Brad]

103. That dress was white!

But that still does not make it relevant to Hillary Clinton in any way.

[Kalidurga]

104. Monica Lewinsky's blue dress isn't relevant when...

Discussing Bill Clinton. It never was relevant it was just a tool to try to score political points on the right. It worked to a degree. Now it should just be ancient history it should actually be something in history we ignore. It's such a small issue yet it gets blown up to gigantic proportions. I would rather if people focused on how the poor were completely eviscerated than a stupid blue dress.

[BlueJazz]

106. If Mrs. Clinton sold herself as a street-walker for the next 10 years, she'd still...

...have more Integrity and Class than all the Republicans on the face of the earth.

[Logical]

108. 1000% NO! Stupid question! nt

[Liberal_Dog]

109. It Is Not Relevant To Me

The Clinton's marriage is their business not mine.

[Tom Ripley]

110. Only if Clinton is wearing it

NO

[DBoon]

111. missing poll option

hah haha ha ha hah ha

This is an attempt at a joke, right?

[Aerows]

112. Jesus, I'm no Hillary fan

But this is a horrible thing to paint her with. Her husband fooled around. It wasn't her fault, and has nothing to do with her.

Why, exactly, am I explaining this on DU again?

[NaturalHigh]

114. Of course not. Why would it be?

[Vinca]

117. No, unless you want to talk about Hillary's great restraint.

If Bill had been my husband I would have strangled him.

[B Calm]

118. Was it a BLUE dress or really a GOLD dress?