Do you stand when the National Anthem is played at sporting events?

[Nye Bevan]

71 votes, 4 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes, I stand.
	61 (86%)
	No, I stay seated.
	10 (14%)
	4 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[CentralMass]

1. Yes, and I put my hand over my heart. Old school.

[DURHAM D]

4. Hand over heart is not old school.

I was well into adulthood before that started.

[cwydro]

6. Well we did it in elementary school in the early 60s.

And it was done before that also.

[DURHAM D]

8. I had a discussion with some friends last week

after the Gabby Douglas thing. Many of us still don't do it and all of us were born when Franklin Roosevelt was President.

We finally came to the conclusion that it started early in the Reagan administration. Maybe this habit is somewhat regional.

There was some sort of kerfuffle during the 2008 primary when some Democrat didn't do it. It might have been Sen. Harkin, can't remember for sure.

[CentralMass]

9. I was born in 1960 and it was done in Massachusetts since I can remember.

[citood]

18. The 2008 non-hand over heart candidate was President Obama

The custom of the hand over heart was made 'official' in the US Flag code in 1942. The 1942 codification replaced the Bellamy Salute...which was...interesting.

[DURHAM D]

20. Not according to Dear Abby -

It was July 7, 1976, the 94th Congress


http://articles.philly.com/2011-06-14/entertainment/29656806_1_flag-day-national-anthem-94th-congress


As I mentioned above, it still seems to be somewhat regional or perhaps the older generation thinks it feels a little too nationalistic, think Nazi.

On another topic, to this day I have never said the words "under God" during the Pledge of Allegiance. My father told me it was unconstitutional and it would not be around long once it went before the Courts.

I reminded him of that just a few years back and shortly before he died. We got a big laugh out of it.

[citood]

48. You Mis-Interpret Dear Abbey

Nobody asked her the genesis of the hand over heart custom, and she merely listed the law currently in force at the time.

Clue: Her citation lists 'as amended' in 1976...ie there was a flag code prior to 1976.

This isn't illuminati stuff - a simple Google search will show it started 'officially' in 1942...and was a custom prior to that.

What do you think the 1968 'black power fist' at the Olympic podium was in lieu of?

Anyhoo...in order to refute Dear Abbey, here is a photo of Eisenhower with hand over heart in 1955.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/home-from-the-summit-washington-d-c-president-eisenhower-news-photo/515020710?#home-from-the-summit-washington-dc-president-eisenhower-stands-with-picture-id515020710

And here's LBJ:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/emperor-haile-selassie-saluting-and-us-president-lyndon-b-news-photo/568917375

And Gerald Ford:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/pres-ford-and-west-german-chancellor-helmut-schmidt-stand-news-photo/515120270

And Nixon:

http://www.fainebooks.com/jazz-blog/ethel-ennis-in-the-inaugural-spotlight

And Truman:

http://www.allposters.com/-sp/President-Harry-Truman-at-Attention-for-the-National-Anthem-Airfield-En-Route-from-Wake-Island-Posters_i8522162_.htm?stp=true

Probably just a regional custom

[DURHAM D]

50. There is something very wrong with you?

[citood]

53. You will now end your day knowing more than you did this morning.

A simple Thank You will suffice.

[DURHAM D]

64. You are still wrong among your other problems.

[citood]

65. Not a big fan of revisionist history

Ignoring plain truths points at a problem. I should ask what exactly is wrong with YOU.

[DURHAM D]

66. Why don't you read down thread and figure out

how off you are. Apparently you think what you read on the internuts is gospel and are unaware that what applies to government and military functions and a high school basketball game are not one and the same thing and you have no use for anyone's actual life experience.

At this point I must assume you are a Nationalist.



Done

[citood]

70. I'd say the congressional record and photos

Of five presidents with their hands on their hearts trumps Dear Abbey.

You got corrected on the internet. Get over it and move on with your life...but don"t lash out at me.

[trixie]

75. I thought this was America

We could do as we choose or not do as we choose. No? I disagree with any kind of pressure to do anything "state required" to me that is a red flag.

[trixie]

73. Me too!

It burns my cookies to see that bastardized pledge being used like it was always that way.

It offends me to no end.

[trixie]

74. The question after the question you highlight

Is very interesting.

[Waldorf]

39. I started elementary school in the late 60's, we were taught back then to hold hand over heart.

This was in Maryland, since you mentioned region.

[hedda_foil]

40. I believe it was Obama who didn't keep his hand over his heart for the anthem

Honestly, unit that kerfuffle, I had never heard of or seen many people doing it for the national anthem., though to contradict myself, it may have been since 9/11. Like the stupid flag pin.

[shadowrider]

24. Not quite

"The Official Pledge of Allegiance Salute Used to be a ‘Hitler Salute’

… Yes, that title is correct. Read on, intrepid history-seekers.

The pledge of allegiance was originally written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, a socialist magazine writer. When he wrote it for an children’s magazine, he also described a salute that he thought would be appropriate during its recital."

http://forgottenhistoryblog.com/the-official-american-flag-salute-used-to-be-a-hitler-salute/

[dflprincess]

77. I was in elementary school in the late 50s and 60s

hand over our hearts for the Pledge, not for the Anthem.

[WyLoochka]

90. Yep - for the pledge not the anthem

Some started hand over heart during the anthem after 9/11.

I don't and I know others who don't participate in this nationalistic display.

[duncang]

92. Same here same time

Hand over heart for pledge, but not on National anthem.

[Fla Dem]

95. Yep. me too. In Massachusetts in school 50's to 60' for pledge not anthem.

Here;s a picture from 1965. Evidently only men with hats placed hand over heart.



1965: Baseball fans stand during the National Anthem at the 1965 Opening Day. (Joe DiPaola/Baltimore Sun)

[tazkcmo]

79. Me too.

Of course "old school" is a relative term.

[MADem]

16. I think it is. Maybe you lived in a pocket where it wasn't practiced, but

I know people in their nineties who will put hand on heart and have since their youth.

That said, I don't think Gabby Douglas did anything wrong. People standing in formation in the military simply stand at attention with hands at their sides, while the person LEADING the formation executes a hand salute.

I never put my hand over my heart in civilian clothing--I simply stood at attention. I think it's a matter of choice, and there's no "rule" about it.

[DURHAM D]

21. Please see my comment just above.

I live in an area that is predominately German American and that may be the reason why there is resistance to patriotic conformity. It scares them.

I attended the funeral of a WWII veteran last week and the manner in which he was honored was inspiring. However, later while we were at the grave side my cousin pointed out the descendants of a man my grandfather had gotten into a fight with during the run up to WWII because he was pro Hitler. I had to stifle a laugh...we are talking 80 years ago but in these small farming communities some things are never forgotten.

[Iggo]

23. That's New School.

Hand over the heart is for the idiotic pledge of allegiance.

[B Calm]

45. Yep. We did that in the 50's for the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.

[Solomon]

63. Exactly. It annoys me that people mix the two:

there's the pledge of allegiance, which is not the same as observing the playing of the nation anthem. I was born in 1955 and taught to hold hand over heart during the pledge, but NOT during the playing of the national anthem. We were taught to just stand during the anthem. Holding your hand over the heart for the anthem is a new requirement. Got really bad after 911.

[DURHAM D]

2. Everyone stands.

The better question is do you put your hand over your heart? If you do, how old are you and what year did you start.

[masmdu]

85. Not everyone. I don't stand.

[Iggo]

93. Never mind.

In missed the part of the OP that said "...at sporting events."

[Separation]

96. I did 20 in the military and this is what I was taught

If in uniform you stand at attention and salute at the first note and cut your salute at the last note.

If out of uniform you stand at attention, if wearing a hat you remove it.

Ive always stood at attention during the anthem, never put my hand over my heart. Now while reciting the Pledge I will cover my heart, but not during the Anthem.

[uppityperson]

3. Typically no. I have no need to prove anything in a public manner.

Not any sort of religious belief or patriotism. They are private and personal.

[The2ndWheel]

11. I would say you're trying to prove that religious belief or patriotism are private and personal

by actively choosing to not stand in public.

[uppityperson]

29. Whatever. I don't stand for most music and most of the time I'm not praying out loud.

Not trying to "prove" anything.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

37. I know what you mean

You don't want to and don't feel compelled to do something just because the group is doing it. I'm not that into it either. I reluctantly do it just to not make a scene if I think it is going to. I usually have my kids with me and I have to act better than I sometimes want to because of them. My oldest son has got the nonconformist attitude that I have, except worse because he is also a teenager. He questions everything and it can be hard to get him to go along with things so I can't start being like that. It is a serious struggle to just get him to do a simple task without all the questions.

[mopinko]

5. i didnt during the bush years.

or during the viet nam years for that matter.
since the pentagon started paying sports teams to do propaganda for them, i am even less likely to stand.

[Auggie]

7. I think it's a ridiculous custom ... I was at a car show last week and they played it there too

[bigwillq]

10. I stand but I do not put hand over heart (nt)

[MADem]

12. Retired military, I used to have to break my arm to not salute.

Now they allow us to...!

I'd stand in my sleep. It's ingrained.

[roamer65]

13. Being in a border state.

Last edited Sat Aug 27, 2016, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I stand for both the national anthem of the United States and Canada at live events.

I sing both of them as well.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

43. You must live very close to the border.

My state borders Canada, but I'm still 2.5 hours from the border where I live. Never hear Canadian song at games unless a Canadian team came down to play. Maybe for hockey.

[roamer65]

49. Yeah. I get CBC over the air.

Pretty close.

[Bradical79]

14. Yes

At least when I'm at an event live. I stand up and do the hand over your heart thing, and take off my hat. I don't stand up if I'm just watching on tv :-P

[yeoman6987]

27. I do the exact same outside or at events

I feel weird not standing when the tv does it but I chalk it up to I'm too lazy to stand. Although that'd be weird if I did stand. No winning on that one. Lol.

[ileus]

15. Of course I love America...always have, always will.

[FLPanhandle]

38. +1

[TheCowsCameHome]

17. Of course, hat removed, with hand over my heart.

Doesn't everyone?

[treestar]

19. Yes but I don't think I'd put hand on heart

and don't get the big deal about the Olympic girl. Some people just have to have someone to criticize no matter how minor the issue is.

[bluedigger]

22. Except when I'm pole vaulting, yeah.

I was with a guy once who got out of the car to stand at a red light in Bangor, when the Red Sox game started on the radio. He was the driver.

[Historic NY]

58. He comes to "attention" because there is no flag to salute....

that is why he was looking, and is the proper salute sans a flag being present.

[NightWatcher]

25. Nothing says Freedom like forcing people to stand up every time a certain song is played.

Here's a new idea, how about we as a nation get pissed off because so many kids go to bed hungry in this great land instead of getting our knickers in a twist because an athlete at a damn sporting event doesn't do what you think he should while a certain song is played.

You want to honor America, start by treating Americans in need better than they currently are treated. You give a damn about the price some paid for your freedom, stop looking down your nose at the homeless vet on the corner and give him a few bucks for starters.

[uppityperson]

30. Thank you for putting it so well

[Iggo]

55. .

[DLevine]

60. Well said. nt

[Kali]

82. THIS

[WillowTree]

84. Who's forcing anyone to stand for the anthem?

[alarimer]

94. I agree

People seem awfully concerned about obeying some stupid custom and what it says about a person than about actually doing something to make us live up to our principles.

[northoftheborder]

26. my decades long tradition...

Hand over heart while saying Pledge of Allegiance but not necessarily during the National Anthem. It's just that usually they are done together. But many times the anthem is sung as entertainment by a singer or chorus, and I can't sing that song anyway, so I don't put hand on heart then.

This ultra patriotism and nationalism is slightly scary to me. Also I don't like the patriotic Christian fish emblem at all. I remember Germany and WWII too vividly.

[Journeyman]

28. Do you ever question why it is played at sporting events but not the opera? . . .

Why at the ballpark but not the theater?

[uppityperson]

32. Yes, I do.

[nolabear]

34. You didn't grow up military like I did. It got crazy.

Before movies in the theater, before every on base sports event (like softball games), at school. That and taps when the flag was lowered and reveille when it's raised. I once saw some jackass officer make a friend's mother stand in a rainstorm with her sick child in her arms while he chewed her out for trying to run to the car from the hospital rather than stopping for taps.

I think shows of identity and solidarity are fine, but being punitive about it creates neither. It makes people feel excluded and shamed, and that never created patriotism in anyone.

[unc70]

41. Done for all events in many countries

For example, you get "God save the Queen" before concerts and such.

BTW I stand for the anthem, parade rest to attention, but no salute with hand over heart. That is reserved for the Pledge. (I am old school, do not say "under God".)

Always thought the details of military in and out of uniform, active duty or non-AD, and indoor or outdoor distinctions were confusing enough. Does a domed sports stadium follow the indoor rules?

[whatthehey]

98. Really? Lived in England a few years and never happened

Last Night of the Proms I guess from tradition. But never once at any other concert or event I saw even on TV when she wasn't actually present.

[liberal N proud]

31. I do and it pisses me off the way the right tries to shame those that don't.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Nationalism is right wing group think.

[Maru Kitteh]

52. Affinity to tribe is a human trait.

One that crosses time, crosses culture - even politics.

[Warren Stupidity]

67. Hmmm yes it is.

Right wing authoritarian political movements exploit our innate tendency toward tribal affinity to promote war and intolerance, to obstruct global humanitarianism, to derail everything from effective action against climate change to universal healthcare. Oh and we've been in a perpetual state of war since 1941. But by all means let's keep mindlessly saluting the flag, mumbling offensive oaths, singing awful songs, and fawning over soldiers. Because well humans have been tribal forever so really what can we do.

[Maru Kitteh]

86. Well. I could sit.

I could keep my ass parked on the bench, raising one smug little eyebrow as the rest of my fellow event-goers rose to sing the national anthem. I could sit, trying oh so hard not to look like I'm looking, whilst I cast quick glances about to see if anyone has noticed my totally meaningful, very cutting-edge protest. I could even grumble random words into my nachos about sheeple - hell, I might even cut Godwin straight off at the knees and invoke Goebbels!

But the nachos don't care. Most of my fellow even-goers don't really care or even notice if I rise for the anthem or sit. Unless someone is expecting me to complete a 26yard pass or bring home the Stanley Cup, it's a pretty lame form of protest, imo.

Participating in the anthem has never changed how I felt about local issues or world affairs. I stood for the anthem when I protested Bush's attempt to turn Social Security over to Wall Street. I stood for the anthem when I protested the Iraq war. I stood for the anthem when I protested the Keystone pipeline. I just prefer to actually protest, when I protest.

In the end we each have to do what makes us most comfortable. I don't have any problem with those who burn the flag in protest. A flag is what you think it is, and nothing more. I certainly have no problem whatsoever with anyone who wishes to sit through the anthem.

Warren, you can come to my town anytime and we can attend the sporting event of your choice. You can sit through the anthem; and talk to my nachos. Oh, and hold my beer please?

[Eleanors38]

59. But Suwanee River is a pretty decent song, when the offensive dialect is flushed.

Apparently, Foster's use of heavy African-American dialect was fairly authentic up through the 1940s, according to Z.N. Hurston. But the state approved a new version in 2007.

[rurallib]

35. Seldom go to sporting events anymore.

The last dozen or so I did attend, no I did not.

Two reasons:
1) I think the national anthem has no place at a sporting event and
2) the seizing of patriotism by right wing fringe groups makes me feel like I am approving of their tactics were I to stand. So we choose not to.

[melman]

46. re: your reason 2

Then you are really buying into the idea that patriotism belongs to the right. You are handing them that issue.

[rurallib]

51. not buying into it - just rebelling against the idea that others would buy into it

[Rex]

36. I don't go to sporting events.

However when applicable, I do stand and put my hand over my heart.

[sarisataka]

42. Always

And if any choose to not stand, I respect it is their right and freedom to do so.

The flag is a symbol of their freedom. That is why I stand for the anthem.

[beachbum bob]

44. I stand when they play our anthem..I stand when the bride

Walks down the aisle, I stand when they say a prayer in church....it's respect..

[Quackers]

71. If you're not standing

When the the bride walks down the aisle, you won't be standing when the paramedics take you out of the wedding.

[SCantiGOP]

47. Stand but no hand

And I skip the words "under God" if I say the pledge.

[Eleanors38]

54. Yes, and during Suwannee River (FL), and both school anthems.

[brewens]

56. Yeah and usually just stand at attention. I never say "under god" when reciting the pledge.

If asked to lead the pledge some day, I will say I would be glad to but warn whoever is asking, that I will recite the original, traditional pledge. You know, the one that several generations grew up reciting, including kids that ended up helping win two world wars.

There have been times in recent years where I was busy setting up blood drives when the anthem or pledge was going on and just kept right on working. It's not unusual for us to be doing that at such events or at school first thing in the morning. No one has ever gave me any crap about it. If the did, I'd just say it's critical for us to be ready to go on time to avoid donors having to wait. I can skip one once in awhile since I have participated a couple of thousand times at the least!

[mourningdove92]

57. I do and I place my hand over my heart.

I choose to do this. I have no problem with those who choose not to.

[Mike Nelson]

61. Yes...

...although I don't go to many sporting events and wonder what's patriotic about them. Still, I am very comfortable showing patriotism.

[JonLP24]

62. I don't even want to watch it on tv

It's been while since I attended a live sporting even but I would prefer not to simply because of the "obligation".

[Cracklin Charlie]

68. I stand.

And lots of times, I start crying.

[Raine]

69. I don't go to sporting events nt

[Philly-Union-Man]

72. It depends. Sometimes I use the opportunity to grab a beer.

Since everyone else is standing still. Other times I'll sing the song.

I don't think ritualistic jingoism is all that important.

[El Supremo]

76. Yes, but not for God Bless America...

[PJMcK]

78. Of course I stand

I put my right hand over my heart, too. In fact, most of the time, I'll sing the lyrics. I certainly did when our American athletes excelled in the Olympics.

Why wouldn't you stand in respect and pride for our nation?

[Kali]

80. I don't do either one.

mindless displays of patriotism or sport events.

[rug]

81. No.

And on the rare occasions someone asks me why, I point to the flag and say that means I don't have to.

[cvoogt]

83. I find it a ridiculous custom at sporting events

When I do attend (which is exceedingly rare) I don't stand. Why can't a sporting event just be a sporting event? I don't see what local/domestic sporting events have to do with patriotism. I could understand it if it's a game vs some other country, and would stand then. Also, I don't say the pledge because I consider it an onerous Cold War artifact that should go away.

[GoneOffShore]

88. I don't go to sporting events.

But I don't say "The Pledge" at any time.

[Liberal_in_LA]

89. Yes

[Warren DeMontague]

91. No, because I think the last sporting event I actually attended was maybe in 1986 or thereabouts.

But yes, in that or any analagous situation, I would behave in a ceremonially appropriate fashion. I'm nothing if not appropriate.

[pinboy3niner]

97. I've been to 2 or 3 games in the last few years because they were charity events

I don't even know what division our minor league baseball team is in, but they have a stadium and some games have involved a local charity created and run by high school students to assist local disabled veterans. Half the ticket price goes to the charity and it has a pavilion at the game, participates in the ceremonial first pitch, etc.

It's no small thing, as the students' first project raised nearly a half million dollars to build two adjacent homes, one for a severely disabled Iraq War vet and his kids and one for his caregivers.

One game was a Jimmy Buffet event involving both a SoCal parrothead group and our charity, so I donned a Hawaiian shirt and a vet cap and saw a good friend, a former Vet Center PTSD counselor, throw out one of the first pitches on behalf of the charity. We had two large sections in the stands for our charity students and supporters, who include a lot of vets.

We follow protocols for the patriotic displays. A lot of us are vets who still adhere to our oath to uphold the Constitution, and that's what these ceremonial displays mean to us, regardless of how we may individually feel about our country's policies.

In my experience at these events, the only ones not standing are my vet friends who are in wheelchairs. They place hand over heart or salute, as appropriate, unless they can't do that--like my friend that disabled Iraq War vet, in a wheelchair, with one arm, and his other arm's mobility severely limited.

For those who choose not to stand, I respect their feelings and I'm not bothered or offended a whit about it.

We have another parrothead game coming up, again coupled with our students' charity. Time to get my colorful Hawaiian shirt ready.

Love & Peace, Pinboy