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[bettyellen]

1. This is flame bait or fly paper. You should delete. As far as the future goes/ most of us have

Opinions of what should happen. Many think we need fresh faces and HRC and Sander should not run again. That's not the least bit controversial. No reason to take it as such.

[zentrum]

2. Blaming Bernie for what happened

......is a topic on several other posts on DU tonight. This current post is merely responding to those, not picking a fight. It's trying to end a fight that's happening elsewhere on DU.

[bettyellen]

3. No- there are threads on polls from voters during the GE. The GE. And talk about who should run next

And neither is slamming anyone, except maybe those idiot Trump voters.

[zentrum]

13. Yes, they are about the GE.

And they blame some percentage of what happened in the GE on Bernie running in the Primaries. The argument seems to be that if he hadn't run in the primary, those voters who supported him in the primary, would have voted for HRC. So it's a difference (primaries vs. GE) without a distinction in their mind.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9506370

So that's why I day that Burch, the poster here, is not starting or picking a fight. He's arguing to let it go and focus on what's important now.

[Ken Burch]

18. I totally agree with you that we need fresh faces.

And I've been saying for months that Bernie shouldn't run again.

All I'm saying is that his presence in the primaries did not cause the November result, so there is no good reason for anyone to still be arguing that his campaign should not have happened, just as there's no good reason for anyone still to be arguing that HRC should not have been nominated. "Don't refight the primaries" means both of those ideas should be equally off the table.

What matters is the future.

[Honeycombe8]

23. Actually, you stating that his presence did not cause the result is opinion & not factual.

I'm not saying it did or didn't. But your statement that Bernie's supporters aren't to blame is the flip side of the other posts you speak of.

I saw one post earlier about this subject, and the poster wasn't stating that. It was putting forth an article in a publication that said as much...and had some figures and percentages in it. Not conclusive, but some facts and info.

It doesn't really matter, since the third party supporters issue happened before and will happen again.

Thinking about what happened, what went wrong, is legitimate, IMO, if people want future elections to go better. It's all in the name of examining what went wrong.

As for myself, I am convinced that HRC did win, but Russia hacked a few districts in a few key states, to get the necessary result.

[snowy owl]

32. Cite the evidence please-that's new & I'd like to read it. Thanks.

[alittlelark]

4. True that !!! His candidacy was a Necessity in this corporate country....

...denial of that is a denial of REALITY.

[Honeycombe8]

26. His was a good candidacy. HRC's was good, too. But neither was "necessary." nt

[Abu Pepe]

5. I voted for Clinton and love bernie Sanders

I haven't seen this division in the real world. But I live in a red red place where such factional luxuries can't be afforded. most of the foot soldiers/organizers and county and precinct structure were mostly white Bernie supporters but the majority of Democratic primary voters where AA and Clinton carried the county. Both sides came together to try to raise Hispanic turnout in the fall - to mixed success.

[redstateblues]

6. Give it a rest

[MadCrow]

19. That's the way Democracy works!

No one ever said that democracies are perfect, but this is the system we have. The results don't always turn out the way we want, but we accept them and move on. Isn't it time that we do just that and stop rehashing old grievances which serve no legitimate purpose except to keep us divided. I agree, GIVE IT A REST.

[Ken Burch]

22. You're right...the people saying Bernie shouldn't have been allowed in the primaries

SHOULD give it a rest...just as should those who'd argue we should have nominated someone else.

Both of those positions should equally be considered dead letters.

Let's move on and just focus on doing better.

[dogman]

7. Must be math wizards.

They think that voters they lost was not severe enough. If only they could have lost new voters that were brought in, they could have succeeded?
Their solution seems to be that we should try this one more time and just shift young voters to a 3rd party.

[secondwind]

8. I, too, believe Bernie's campaign was inevitable.

The 2016 presidential election had all the hallmarks of being an "anti establishment" election.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. I think if Warren had run, Bernie wouldn't have.

She would have filled the same valence that many were looking for.

Imagine a restaurant where the 2 only options on the menu are chicken and... I don't know, a kind of unknown, unoffensive but not terribly exciting rice polenta.

You can say "what's wrong with rice polenta? It's a perfectly acceptable entree. And you can't say you had no alternative to the chicken, because here we're offering you this rice polenta, too!"

Or, you could say "Chicken? How can anyone not want chicken? Millions of voters DEMANDED Chicken! Chicken is the most qualified dinner entree ever to appear on a menu, in the history of the Universe"

Nevertheless.... a lot of people might still want something else.

[left-of-center2012]

9. You're correct, of course

Sadly, there are some who can not move forward to beating the GOP in 2018 and 2020.

To keep poking Bernie in the eye with a stick will only hurt unifying for the future.

[onit2day]

16. Bernie represents the direction the party must and will take

An honest man of the people is hard to find. I'll remain convinced Bernie would have won the GE if he had won the primary. I also voted for Hillary but all the polls showed him beating Trump by a far greater number than Clinton (I still believe Clinton won). But the party needed to change as it was losing elections all over the country and Bernie was a breath of fresh air saying no to the banksters and Wall street and the corporate DLC lobbyists. And don't forget Trump ran as a democrat for the most part though he has no values except lying to get his way. Bernie strengthened the party and the party's future.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Another thing people don't seem to get is, primary eligibility is determed state-by-state I think.

So this idea that the DNC "allowed" Bernie to run at the national level is fallacious.

[flibbitygiblets]

11. Can we please just move on? Pick better candidates & messages, learn from mistakes,

work together and kick the republican's ASSES while they are down on the ground with self-inflicted wounds--and get back on track to healing the damage that's been done by the grifting traitor and his enablers.

I have no time or patience for anything else, and I suspect I'm not alone here.

[WinkyDink]

12. Both sides are interminably boring now.

[phleshdef]

17. Cosigned

Just STFU about it already, its embarrassing

[Stonepounder]

15. I agree with this OP 110%!

I loved Bernie. I worked for him and voted for him in the Primary. And when Hillary won, I immediately signed up to work for her and did everything I could to help her win. I come election day I proudly voted for the woman I WANTED to be the next President.

And, just for the record, if Bernie had tried to run as a 3rd party candidate, I would have run from him as fast as I could.

Now, lets MOVE ON! How about a real dark horse, Antonio Villaraigosa? (former mayor of Los Angeles.)

[nini]

21. Villaraigosa is a joke

Though he takes good pictures. There's a reason he was known as the photo-op mayor

He was anti-union. Screw him.

[nini]

20. Lololol. You re-fight the primaries while telling others to stop doing the same

What is hypocrisy for 1000 Alex?

[Ken Burch]

25. I've never refought. Not once.

I've simply said we should have run the fall campaign differently-but I've said that because I wanted to see our nominee elected. Thew fact that I campaigned for her proves I accepted the result of the primary.

[PatrickforO]

24. If we want to win elections, we must talk about kitchen table issues.

Independents outnumber both Dems and Republicans.

To get Independents to vote D, we must address the things they care about -

- I'm afraid I'll get laid off.

- I'm worried about my health insurance and about health care in general.

- College sure is expensive. Hope my kids will be able to go without getting into horrible debt.

- Every time I go to the grocery store, the stuff I buy costs more, by my paycheck still stays the same.

- I worry about clean air and clean water.

- I want good schools for my kids.

- Why does childcare have to be so expensive?

- How can I find any kind of meaning in life when I work as hard as I do?

Get it? Kitchen table issues. Learn to talk compellingly about these things, and we will sweep elections. It isn't about Hillary or Bernie (though you can probably guess who I supported in the primaries): it is about our message. It is about staying on our message. It is about using the right words. Did you know that 'Medicare for all Americans' polls WAY better than 'single payer?' Stuff like that.

And they aren't 'job killin' regulashuns.' They are life-saving guidelines.

Ah, enough. For some of the posters above, I don't think this post is 'flame bait.' What I do think is the Dem party is being pretty slow in terms of getting in step and on message. Do we want to win elections or not? Because if you win elections, you can reverse all the sorry shit Trump and his criminal administration have been foisting off on us.

Please, let's get our shit together as a party. Because it doesn't look to me like that has happened yet. And it needs to, for all our sakes.

[applegrove]

27. Who said Bernie should be barred from the primaries in my OP?

I did not get that.

[Hoyt]

28. Sorry, but that's "refighting" primaries too. Eom

[Ken Burch]

31. No. It's only refighting the primaries if you don't accept the result or malign our nominee.

I do neither of those things.

[SergeStorms]

29. I agree.

Let's stop beating all of the dead Democratic/Independent horses. It's all a moot point.

[TeamPooka]

30. The problem isn't Bernie running. Let him run It's letting non-Democrats vote in our primaries. Duh.

Then, according to recent studies, many of those Bernie voters went and voted for Trump.
What a fucking surprise.

[Lil Missy]

33. Nobody said he should have been barred from the PRIMARIES. But nice try.

He should not have been allowed to run as a DEMOCRAT.

Nobody else should EVER be allowed to do that again.