The 2016 Postmortem Forum Will Close on Friday 1/20

[Skinner]

This discussion thread was locked by Skinner (a host of the Announcements group).

As you all know, Donald Trump will be inaugurated as our next president this Friday, January 20. With this in mind, it is time for DUers to stop fighting about the 2016 presidential election and start coming together to face the threat of a Trump Presidency. I know this news will be a disappointment to the small minority of DUers who REALLY REALLY REALLY want to convince the rest of us that Hillary Clinton and/or Bernie Sanders is totally the worst thing that ever happened EVER, but the rest of us will be relieved to put an end to the infighting.

Here's what's going to happen:

The 2016 Postmortem forum will shut down.
It will be saved as a read-only archive so we can go back from time-to-time and remind ourselves how pointless and annoying these arguments really were.

We will bring back the "Don't keep fighting primaries" rule.
You may remember that before the November election we had a rule against re-hashing the Democratic primary. Now that the postmortem period is over, that rule is going to come back. For the record, here is the text of the rule:

Don't keep fighting the last Democratic presidential primary
Regardless of whether you supported a winning candidate or a losing candidate, do not prolong the agony of the last Democratic presidential primary by continuing to pick fights, place blame, tear down former primary candidates, bait former supporters, or do anything else to pour salt on old wounds.

Why we have this rule: Most of our members want this to be forward-looking, friendly community that is focused on creating a better future for our country. Continuing to rehash old fights that have already been resolved is divisive and counter-productive.

If you read that rule and think to yourself, "For fuck's sake, how will I be able to insult supporters of Hillary Clinton and/or Bernie Sanders NOW?!?!?!" then you are precisely the person this rule was intended to thwart. I am already pre-ignoring your impotent howls of protest.

The impending Trump administration is going to be an unmitigated disaster for America. Let's come together here on DU to fight it.

[Lochloosa]

1. I am already pre-ignoring your impotent howls of protest.

[sarah FAILIN]

10. I snorted at that

[meadowlark5]

15. Me too

[annabanana]

66. !

[SMC22307]

92. LOL, that was a thing of beauty. (n/t)

[ogradda]

108. I know.

That was funny as hell.

[progressoid]

2. Sounds good to me.

[tenorly]

68. Same here.

I always objected to the name of the thread; rather than 'post-mortem' it should have been called 'post-fortum' (post-theft).

[SHRED]

3. Thank you Skinner!

[JPPaverage]

4. United we stand, Divided we fall

And now, more than ever we must be united. Comrade trump and co. will try to do unlimited and unrecoverable damage to our country. We must stay together to stop them. Thank you.

[Rex]

5. The only good news for Jan 20th.

Excellent rule.

[Alice11111]

104. Don't think it should close. 1.20.17+ will be MORE grieving

[NRaleighLiberal]

6. Wow - what a nice birthday present!

[retrowire]

26. Is it your BIRFDAY nt

[NRaleighLiberal]

29. yup - every four years I am either elated or devastated. not hard to guess which this time

So we will go to lunch, Sue will make my favorite cake, and we will plan our Keys vacation which begins on her birthday - the 22nd!

[LongTomH]

49. Happy Birthday!

[uppityperson]

80. HBTY!

[niyad]

109. despite the horrible event of this day, may your own celebration be one of joy and love and laughter

and delight.

happy happy birthday!!!

[longship]

7. Good! Very good!!!

R&

[lastlib]

8. Question: Will we be able to view posts in it, ie,

will it be archived in any way to be viewable in the future?

Asking since it might be useful for future reference.

[Lochloosa]

20. He answered that question

It will be saved as a read-only archive so we can go back from time-to-time and remind ourselves how pointless and annoying these arguments really were.

[avebury]

9. Will there be a new forum to take its place?

Maybe a forum to deal with taking the fight to Trump and the Republicans?

[leftofcool]

79. That's what GD is for

[Hortensis]

88. Lol, please, Powers That Be, no! Seriously, let's hope

the Powers stand strong and that remains only a joke.

Avebury, the Postmortem Regulars are far too invested in battling each other to switch to what's happening on the right. Their choice long ago, and that's the problem of them.

[herding cats]

11. Good to hear!

We need to unite our voices in opposition to what the Republicans have planned for us. It's going to be an extremely rough four years, and much of the damage could potentially last for generations.

[Lifelong Protester]

12. I like your last line.

[Hekate]

13. Hallelujah!

Kumbayah

[liquid diamond]

14. Good

[Paladin]

16. Thank goodness. (nt)

[Saviolo]

17. Why I love Skinner:

Choice excerpts:

I know this news will be a disappointment to the small minority of DUers who REALLY REALLY REALLY want to convince the rest of us that Hillary Clinton and/or Bernie Sanders is totally the worst thing that ever happened EVER, but the rest of us will be relieved to put an end to the infighting.

It will be saved as a read-only archive so we can go back from time-to-time and remind ourselves how pointless and annoying these arguments really were.

If you read that rule and think to yourself, "For fuck's sake, how will I be able to insult supporters of Hillary Clinton and/or Bernie Sanders NOW?!?!?!" then you are precisely the person this rule was intended to thwart. I am already pre-ignoring your impotent howls of protest.

Time for EVERYONE to come together. Put hurt feelings aside, because what's coming is going to hurt a lot more if we can't work together.

[NightWatcher]

18. Burn the boats! There's no going back!

We advance or die.

[Sunlei]

19. can we please have a forum for Ds currently running, so we know who to support before midterms.

Rs will focus on the Ds left in our Congress & Senate and they will take them out without a lot of help.

I also wish DU was a part of the investigations (if there are any) for all the hacking done to D party. This message board was hacked and the FBI has the resources to find who did it. That persons criminal ass should be nailed to the wall by now.

[Hekate]

84. There have always been individual candidate & officeholder Groups. You can form one at any time.

[Sunlei]

96. Thanks, I don't mean the "individual" forums. IMO, those divide (d)the D party.

This message board is the #1 ranked D party board in the world, yet it was dominated by the word trump in almost 90% of headlines and fully silenced by some republican with a hack.

The board got one letter from Sanders, (to thank for DU donations) never a contact from Clinton campaign and one primary press credential from Clinton campaign.

We also need a DU twitter forum, so we can directly connect with our D party officials and directly tweet the new president. He shouldn't be allowed a twitter platform with hardly any challenge from Ds. Twitter is free and it's a very powerful platform.

[Beartracks]

111. Reccin' yer post. :D n/t

[get the red out]

21. Great!

I am relieved.

[LiberalLovinLug]

22. I like this too

But this is all open to interpretation.

What about this period of re-evaluating the Democratic party and re-examining its past directions to develop new strategies. The Clintons and their 'triangulation' idea have been very influential in the direction of the party for a couple of decades now. Obama tried his best to continue that. So I hope we can still talk about this, out of the context of the primaries of course.

I guess the question boils down to..What if I or someone else is critical of the Clintons influence, in order to help develop better directions for the party, without a past Hillary supporter alerting on an OP or post because they took it as a personal insult towards Hillary? And more important, would that post/OP be verboten?

[mopinko]

58. we are done re-evaluating the past.

that would be the point.
in the end it depends on the juries. if you post is newsworthy, and not just a rehash, it will likely survive.
or like your mama told you, if you cant say something nice dont say anything at all. manners, it is about manners.

i approve of being done w the navel gazing, and galvanizing for the fight ahead. the fight of our lives.

[LiberalLovinLug]

82. As the old saying goes

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Call it navel gazing, but I hardly think it is in the best interests of moving forward a party by putting blinders on and doing the same thing over and over. That is called insanity. And to Democrats, that is called losing.

[mopinko]

83. trust me. nobody is ever gonna forget this election.

living in the past is not exactly a recipe for success, either.
holding old grudges, licking old wounds. not a fertile field either.

let it go.

[Hekate]

85. Right on, mopinko

[LiberalLovinLug]

100. I wasn't referring to this election

I was referring to the greater history, before and after.

I was just saying that there will be a fine line drawn.
So will it be ok to look back and say, "this this and this did work, and this this and this did not work" in showing voters that the Democrats are the best option? Can we do that without mentioning any faults in positioning by certain prominent individuals? Or do we just never mention certain names ever again? i'm just wondering how this is going to work, is all.

[BainsBane]

101. There is no rule about discussing history

Last edited Wed Jan 18, 2017, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)

but from what I've observed, most prefer mythology.

If the entire focus remains on individuals, then there is no future for the party or democracy. It would be nice if people decided that issues, principles, and policy actually mattered rather than engineering everything to promote one person's career. That of course would require something beyond the Manichaean worldview that dominates politics today. From what I have seen in the campaign and in the postmortem forum since, I see no signs of a desire to change that. Determining certain people are perfect and others are sell- outs is easier than actually having to think about issues and policies in productive terms. That particular development is relatively recent, (rather its revival since societies were once dominated by kings and strongmen) and, I believe, indicative of the decline of the kind of political culture necessary to sustain democracy. That is not doing the same thing over and over again. It is making it decidedly worse.

[LiberalLovinLug]

102. I agree

"It would be nice if people decided that issues, principles, and policy actually mattered rather than engineering everything to promote one person's career."

There is a mythology that Reagan was one of the greatest presidents. Unless you actually look at his "accomplishments"

Just like the mythology that the Republicans are trying (but I think will fail) to cement about Obama that he was a 'disaster'.

I too want to go deeper than mythology and have an honest look at the direction that the DLC has taken the party. That may involve criticism, and in that criticism names may be mentioned. At least that's how its usually done. I'd like to think this is a place we can speak our minds even if it may be uncomfortable for some to hear, or may include a name attached to that criticism that some only want to be spoken in glowing terms.

[mopinko]

103. fairly. that's how it's gonna work. fairly.

you will be judged by a jury of your peers. if that isnt enough for you, i dont know what to say.

[Lil Missy]

73. It means, stop it.

[Iggo]

23. THANK YOU!!!!

[retrowire]

24. Thank the lord

Now can everyone join me in quiet anger already? Damn.

[Aristus]

25. Thank you, Skinner.

Forward together. Stronger together.

[TygrBright]

27. THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!!!! n/t

[Sissyk]

28. Thank you! n/t

[demmiblue]

30. Yay! I hope it gets replaced with something like 'American Politics/Elections'.

A lot of really interesting things in GD go unnoticed due to all the Trump threads. Also, it would really serve as a nice reprieve when people need to take a little break from the darkness and insanity that is Trump. I know there are groups, but many of them are lucky to get a handful of posts in a month... I don't see that changing (it seems that most DUers gravitate toward GD).


P.S. The inmates escaped that prison a long time ago!

[RockaFowler]

31. Thank you Skinner

[Freethinker65]

32. Thanks

[CajunBlazer]

33. Thank you!!! It's about time

[democrank]

34. PEACE

[greatauntoftriplets]

35. Thank you!

[hamsterjill]

36. One small correction, please.

Skinner, I'm fine with the forum closing, but I am NOT fine with Donald Trump being referred to as "our" President. He will be "the" President.

Not my President. Not now. Not ever.

Am I ready to fight the Trump administration? Bring it, baby! I will give that effort my all.

[Turbineguy]

37. So,

we're going to live through it then.....

[VOX]

38. Mercifully. Thanks, Skinner! n/t

[Ilsa]

39. I'm ready. Make it so. nt

[Rustyeye77]

40. wow

[yuiyoshida]

41. Good.

[still_one]

42. Bravo!!! Now lets work together to fight this monstrosity that will occupy the WH

[revmclaren]

43. Thank you.

[Deb]

44. Thank you n/t

[Stellar]

45. Does that mean I have to stop hating GOPee Trump and his KKKlan?

I never felt that about Hillary or Bernie. I just HATE the GOPee's!!!

[Hekate]

87. What do you think?

[CTyankee]

46. I could never understand the primary infighting here. I supported Bernie in our CT primary and

my husband supported Hillary. We never fought over our differences. He felt strongly about Hillary and I felt strongly about Bernie. So what?

[Hortensis]

90. CT, there is an explanation for part of it at least.

As one expert explained in short form, "the far right hates everyone else and the far left hates itself." Those on the far left are wired to focus hostility and aggression that come naturally to both on the mainstream left, leaving them with little left over for what's happening on the right.

They're easy--it's a personality thing. Bernie and Hillary are just the current focus. Most followers of both were like you and your husband, and they (and you) got along just fine because they aren't given to extremist/radical reactions.

The ones I haven't had explained to me are those here on DU who seem to have become addicted to fighting back at the far left. We are in an era where hyperpartisanship is normal, and groups are moving farther and farther toward extremism in large numbers.

[CTyankee]

97. OK, I blame Donald Trump. He has driven this thing with his extreme rhetoric. We will be lucky

if we all survive in the next 4 years. I dread it.

[Hortensis]

99. Well, he'll never be blamed enough for...being himself,

so that works. How ironic that we on the left are filled with the kind of anxiety usually reserved for irrational conservatives, while many of them are still beaming happily about the great "advances" they are enabling.

[kenfrequed]

47. Good

It will not be missed.

[47of74]

48. Yeah I also am pre-ignoring impotent howls of protest.

Regardless of where they come from.

[mountain grammy]

50. Good, thank you!

[angrychair]

51. As my sig line states

We are either united in our fight against trump's agenda or we will all become a victim of it.

[rug]

52. All good things must come to an end.

[Shrek]

53. Where can I go to begin fighting the 2020 primary?

Because your candidate, whoever it might be, is immutably awful.

[nolabear]

59. ...

[Hortensis]

91. :)

[mvd]

54. Good idea

It was left open for a nice long time, and now everything about the election that has been said has been said.

[rtracey]

55. man do i agree

This is the time we really need to get the 2018 vote out........starts now

[ladjf]

56. Good! It would have been better of the posters had had enough sense to realize what

a waste of time the anti Clinton and Sanders posts were. But, maybe we can move on now.

[Maeve]

57. And there was great rejoicing throughout the land!

Thanks, Boss!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

60. Will it be replaced by the Post-Apocalypse Forum? NT

[libdem4life]

61. It appears DJT is keeping one campaign promise...to Drain the Swamp...

Starting at the top...his crooked and rich compadres who are mostly incapable of their cabinet level positions. They are falling like flies. Guess they didn't comprehend they would be, gasp, Public Servants in these roles and, another gasp, held accountable for their former acts.

Sad. LOL.

[tavalon]

62. Don't take this in any salacious manner

But, damn, I love you!

[LostOne4Ever]

63. Thank you!!! Nt

[QC]

64. Good move!

[ornotna]

65. Some wishes do come true

Thanks Skinner.

[Raine]

67. Good, I'm sick of the blame game that that forum encouraged. nt

[MicaelS]

69. Fine, as long as it is replaced by a 2018 Midterms Forum

Rather than having everything dumped into GD.

[sheshe2]

70. Good.

[stuffmatters]

71. Finally. those anti Bernie/Hillary diversions have been counterproductive for months.

We are facing a previously unimaginable monstrosity of a government without any functioning checks and balances.

[TheCowsCameHome]

72. Good. It can't happen soon enough.

[Tiggeroshii]

74. Roger.

[NastyRiffraff]

75. Goodbye, Postmortem and good riddance

It's an ugly reminder of the primary mess we had here. I'm very glad to see it go.

[WyLoochka]

76. Oh yes!! - now let's

get together so we can put up an effective opposition to stop the Trumpsters and the evil aims of Ryan - McConnell and their wrecking crews

[MADem]

77. Unmitigated disaster is putting it succinctly.

This makes the Bush years look simply somewhat hellish by comparison...

[leftofcool]

78. Can I get an AMEN!

[Lithos]

81. Over F***in due...

There is a baseline of reality we now need to accept. I'm tired of the shoulda-coulda-woulda's

There were mistakes, let's not make another one by rehashing the past. Focus on the imminent issues at hand lest they overwhelm us.

L-

[AgadorSparticus]

86. That was pretty mind numbing that people STILL wanted to fight the primaries.

So glad this rule is coming back!!!! Thank you Skinner!

We have bigger fish to fry...

[betsuni]

89. I found the postdeath forum interesting.

Lots of propaganda debunked and I thank everyone who took the time to do the debunking. If anyone's still repeating that anti-Democratic junk and false equivalency after this year, it will be very very disappointing. I also think it's fun when the tables are turned and the usual trolls become the trollees -- they get really mad, but never seem to learn that if you do it to others, don't be surprised to get the same back. It's your game, why the shock when others play? Interesting.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

93. Let's fight it!

[RiverStone]

94. 1+ And so we will fight this aberration of a prez together!

[steve2470]

95. Thank you Skinner

We need to impeach this SOB or at least prevent him from harming the country!

[lillypaddle]

98. Good

beating a dead horse and all that ...

[ConSciousReset]

105. Hi

Sounds nice

[greyl]

106. Remoralize! nt

[Raster]

107. I am already pre-ignoring your impotent howls of protest.

[Beartracks]

110. It's pointless to argue who would've won bigger.... when we ALL lost!!

[Bucky]

113. Good move. After 18 months of a Trump presidency, we need to be over the trauma

It's been 18 months since he was inaugurated, right?