Judge who urged Cannon to step aside from Mar-a-Lago case refuses to throw out Trump's liable for rape suit against ABC

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: Law & Crime

Jul 24th, 2024, 2:47 pm


The chief judge for the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida who previously made headlines for reportedly urging Judge Aileen Cannon to step aside from Donald Trump’s since dismissed Mar-a-Lago case ruled Wednesday that the former president’s defamation lawsuit against ABC, a case brought because George Stephanopoulos said “more than 10 times” on “This Week” that Trump been found “liable for rape” in the E. Jean Carroll civil case, can move forward.

In May, lawyers for ABC and Stephanopoulos asked Chief Judge Cecilia Altonaga to throw out the lawsuit “with prejudice,” defending Stephanopoulos’ statements as “substantially true,” asserting they were protected by Florida’s fair report privilege, and arguing that Trump’s claims were collaterally estopped.

“In this case, former President Trump seeks to re-litigate a meritless theory of defamation that he has already lost twice in New York. Mr. Trump is collaterally estopped from doing so here,” ABC argued earlier. “And if this Court were to reach the merits, at bottom, this case asserts that even after a jury has found that a person committed a violent sexual assault, it is defamatory to say that the person committed a ‘rape.’ That is not a proposition Florida law recognizes.” For Altonaga, however, she agrees with Trump’s “position on each” at this point of the litigation.

“To be clear, the Court is not reaching the merits of Plaintiff’s claims. Defendants may very well convince a reasonable factfinder to follow Judge Kaplan’s reasoning or to adopt other reasoning leading to the conclusion that Stephanopoulos’s statements were not defamatory. That is not the issue before the Court now,” the judge wrote first of the collateral estoppel argument. “At this stage, the Court only decides that Defendants have not satisfied their burden to show collateral estoppel should apply, and that collateral estoppel would not be fairly applied in these circumstances.”

Read more: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/judge-who-reportedly-urged-cannon-to-step-aside-from-mar-a-lago-case-declines-to-throw-out-trumps-defamation-suit-against-abc-stephanopolous/

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Full headline: Judge who urged Cannon to step aside from Mar-a-Lago case refuses to throw out Trump’s ‘liable for rape’ suit against ABC, Stephanopoulos

Link to ORDER (PDF) - https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68351681/34/trump-v-american-broadcasting-companies-inc/?redirect_or_modal=True

[hlthe2b]

1. Trump's history of frivolous lawsuits ought to eventually be able to be used against future suits...

It would likely take new laws, but this is ridiculous.

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

2. I wonder if he'll flee with suitcases of cash when it's declared. It would be on brande for his type

Oh, did I say cash? I meant secrets. Careful, P01135809, secrets like you're peddling have a half-life of four years or less, and I figure you don't get the good stuff in your briefings like you used to. I hope Putin has to play Skorzeny some day.

[Bengus81]

6. That's always been my theory when he loses the election. Pick a country,any country as to where he would seek a domicile

He hasn't got that many years till he kicks off (hope the hell it's soon) and he's got zero plans to spend it in a prison cell. Hell...I'd chip in for gas if he NEVER comes back.

[onetexan]

7. I'd be willing to bet he's got the getaway plans laid out

Hungary or Saudis likely.

[EndlessWire]

24. I think he'll go to Venezuela n/t

[AZ8theist]

11. I'd kick in as well, but ONLY if he shuts the fuck up. PERMANENTLY.

[prodigitalson]

8. that's what you do

[I am Neo]

16. I don't think

he'll go anywhere. He is addicted to the fools that send him money.

[Blue Full Moon]

3. Didn't the judge in the Jean E Carrol case

Define the assult as rape

[getagrip_already]

4. Yes...

More than once.

[onenote]

18. Yes, and if Stephanopoulos had said a judge found Trump liable for rape, there would be less of an issue here.

Last edited Fri Jul 26, 2024, 03:12 PM - Edit history (2)

The issue arises because George said that the "jury" found Trump liable for rape and the jury expressly declined to find Trump had committed "rape" as that term is narrowly defined in New York law. That doesn't mean Trump will necessarily win, but it's why this case is being allowed to move forward.

[Blue Full Moon]

19. How can be liabal for but didn't do.

Sounds like mincing words.

[onenote]

20. the judge, in assessing the amount of liability, equated the type of sexual assault the jury found Trump committed

Last edited Thu Jul 25, 2024, 01:51 PM - Edit history (1)

to the common understanding, rather than the narrower legal definition of what constitutes "rape" under NY law.

[mobeau69]

27. 🔽

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/

[2naSalit]

5. Oh FFS!

[oasis]

9. "There must be some kinda way out of here"

said the Trumpster, who’s a thief
“There is so much confusion
I can’t get no relief “

[calimary]

15. Good one!

Now that’s playing in my mind. With THOSE lyrics of YOURS.

[oasis]

22. Thanks! I'm picturing a squirming Trumpster

with the walls closing in. Those days are rapidly
approaching.

[calimary]

23. Heck, those days are already here!

He’s not sleeping well, I suspect, unless heavily medicated.

He’s NOT in good shape, he doesn’t exercise, I’m surprised that he didn’t get around inside the White House except by golf cart.

[Traurigkeit]

10. The SS detail wil detain TSF with extreme prejudice if it thinks it can jump the US.

when TSF loses

[WestMichRad]

12. ..."arguing that (the) claims were collaterally estopped."

What the heck does that mean?

[onenote]

13. Collateral estoppel:

"The doctrine of collateral estoppel precludes a party from relitigating an issue which has previously been decided against him in a proceeding in which he had a fair opportunity to fully litigate the point.”

[WestMichRad]

21. Thank you!

[nakocal]

14. Discovery is going to require Trump to testify under oath

So he will either drop the case and wind up in contempt for perjury.

[onenote]

17. Why would Trump have to testify?

The issue in the case is whether George Stephanopoulos defamed Trump by stating that a jury found Trump liable for rape. How is Trump testimony relevant to the factual question in issue: what the jury found Trump liable for. The jury expressly answered no to the question of whether Trump was liable for rape, as that term is defined in New York law. The judge, however, in discussing Trump's liability concluded that while Trump didn't commit rape as defined in New York law, he did commit rape as that term is commonly understood and used.

[nakocal]

25. Part of discovery

If Trump wants to prove his point in the suit, the defendant has the right to question his accuser.

[onenote]

26. No he doesn't. His testimony would be irrelevant. Won't even be sought.

The issue is what Stephanopolous said and what the jury did. End of story.

How many cases have you tried?

[unblock]

28. Other legal issues aside, I'd love to hear the merit/damages part

Dementia don's argument is that he was defamed from abc saying that a *judge* found him *liable* for *rape* when in fact a judge found that the *sexual assault* that the *jury* found him liable for *amounted to rape*

That's a tiny hole in the needle to thread a defamation claim through.

His image was oh so damaged because there's such a mountainous difference between rape and sexual assault that amounts to rape?

How is he going to prove any kind of damages are due to that subtle distinction? He lost a massive business deal because someone refused to do business him because they heard he was an adjudicated rapist under New York law, but they would have done the deal if they knew he was merely an adjudicated sexual assaulter under New York law but what he did most people would call rape anyway?

Seriously, how do you show damages from the subtle distinction, especially when most people have to go through it a few times before they even follow the distinction he's trying to make?


Imagine a serial killer suing because a reporter said he killed 17 people and hey hey hey, I only killed 16! My reputation is damaged thanks to your faulty reporting!

[onenote]

29. Falsely accusing someone of having been found by a jury to have committed rape could constitute defamation per se.

In a defamation per se suit, damages are presumed. Admittedly, without any further showing, the amount of compensatory damages awarded might be nominal, but might be bolstered by an award of punitive damages. Given that the complaint doesn't specify a particular amount of damages, my guess is that he is mostly looking for a ruling that he was defamed by the big bad media, and doesn't care about getting any "compensatory" damages, but would love to get an award of punitive damages.

[unblock]

30. Well in terms of legal strategy yeah, it's not a normal case

I'd say mostly he's just looking for hey I have to make these people pay for giving me bad press. If all he does is make them spend time and money on lawyers then he wins.

Working the ref, basically. It inhibits them from talking smack about Donnie if they know he'll sue at the drop of a hat.


I hear you and yeah the statement does look like the sort of statement that might be defamatory per se, like calling someone a murderer when they just aren't at all, that certainly can be presumed to damage them without needing them to show damage. But if they already are a known murderer and you just got the body count wrong? Or hey hey hey, it was aggravated homicide! Not murder!

Can we presume damages there?

I don't know. Maybe this is the sort of case when if he wins, the award is $1.

Well anyway, I rather suspect the case goes nowhere on its merits. Certain hard to prove abc has malicious intent in obscuring the subtle distinctions between judge va jury and rape vs sexual assault amounting to rape.

[onenote]

31. Agreed. Winning at the motion to dismiss stage doesn't guarantee him a win at trial.