Republicans lay legal groundwork for election challenges
Source: Reuters
September 29, 2024 10:13 AM EDT Updated 3 hours ago
Sept 29 (Reuters) - In Arizona, one of seven competitive U.S. states that are expected to decide the 2024 presidential election, an advocacy group founded by Donald Trump adviser Stephen Miller is advancing a bold legal theory: that judges can throw out election results over "failures or irregularities" by local officials.
The lawsuit by the America First Legal Foundation, a conservative advocacy group, says the court in such cases should be able to toss the election results and order new rounds of voting in two counties in Arizona, where Democratic candidate Vice President Kamala Harris is leading Trump in the polls by a razor-thin margin. Almost four years after former president Trump and his allies tried and failed to overturn his election defeat with a flurry of more than 60 hastily arranged lawsuits, Republicans have launched an aggressive legal campaign laying the groundwork to challenge potential losses.
The Republican National Committee says it is involved in more than 120 lawsuits across 26 states, in a strategy that some legal experts and voting rights groups say is meant to undercut faith in the system. Republicans say the lawsuits are aimed at restoring faith in elections by ensuring people don't vote illegally. Trump and his allies have falsely claimed that his 2020 election loss to Joe Biden was tainted by widespread fraud.
While the Arizona case is likely a long shot, legal experts say it fits with a pattern of Republican-backed lawsuits that appear aimed at sowing doubts about the legitimacy of the election before it occurs and providing fodder for challenging the results after the fact. “This is part of creating the narrative that there will be irregularities that will require outside intervention," said Columbia Law School professor Richard Briffault.
Read more: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/legal-blitz-republicans-lay-groundwork-us-election-challenges-2024-09-29/
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Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)The ECA requires candidates’ challenges to election result to immediately be referred to a panel of three federal judges, not state courts.
The panel must then rule by the safe harbor date in December.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)and hand the 2024 election to the orange turd the way the GOP controlled SCOTUS handed the 2000 election to bushthief.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)And didn’t.
Aside from Thomas, no one on SCOTUS has any personal loyalty to Trump.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)Coney-Barrett was not on the SCOTUS for most of the 2020 rulings. The Presidential immunity act was delayed for months and then written as a get out of jail free card for the orange turd. Never forget that Roberts, Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett were all appointed to the SCOTUS because of their helping bushthief steal the 2000 election in Florida. Of course Thomas was also part of the Rehnquist 5 who stopped the legal Florida vote count and handed the 2000 election to bushthief. Do not be deceived at how dangerous the maga SCOTUS majority is. They've overturned, Roe vs Wade, affirmative action based on race, kneecapped the EPA's efforts to combat climate change and the list goes on.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)See my reply #22 - I hope you will respond and provide a detailed hypothetical scenario that supports your assertion.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)I find it pretty shocking that there's anyone at DU who doesn't understand how dangerous the SCOTUS now is. Had the SCOTUS not shredded the U.S. constitution and installed bushthief, against the will of the people, we wouldn't now be teetering on the vwerge of a dictatorship. Had the will of the people prevailed in 2000, bushthief would've been sent back to Texas where we the people had voted for him to be. The anti democracy SCOTUS bushtheif vs Gore ruling in 2000 made possible the anti democracy maga majority that now controls the SCOTUS in 2024. This radical maga SCOTUS majority has now ruled that the President is above the law and is immune from prosecution. Nowwhere in the U.S. constitution does it say that the President is above the law and immune from prosecution. It's time for you to face these ugly facts.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)You continue to fail to outline any believable scenario, giving examples of states involved, where SCOTUS installs Trump as president.
Given my understanding of the Electoral Count Act and the previously tested safeguards in place as outlined in the CREW report, I think that’s highly unlikely.
Here’s an example of an example:
Georgia refuses to certify its election results, Kemp refuses to get involved, so SCOTUS gets involved. SCOTUS rules Trump wins GA.
PA refuses to certify its election results; Shapiro removes the recalcitrant officials and replaces them. Harris wins PA
AZ refuses to certify results, after the officials defy a writ of mandamus, Hobbs removes the recalcitrant officials, and replaces them. Harris is certified as the winner. Trump challenges, and under the ECA, a panel of federal judges rules Harris won. Trump appeals to SCOTUS…
What does SCOTUS do?
The state has certified Harris, then the federal panel reaffirmed Harris as the winner;
-SCOTUS can deny cert and refuse to hear the case (which is how the same court, minus KBJ ruled in 2020)
-SCOTUS can take the case and affirm Harris as the winner
-SCOTUS can reverse the prior rulings, and give the state to Trump, based on…? (You fill in the blank)
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)Once again you fail to note that repug controlled SCOTUS has already installed their personally preferred Presidential candidate in the White House in 2000. Where were you in 2000 when the repug controlled SCOTUS did this? They did so by rubberstamping the Jeb/Harris all out assault on American democracy in Florida by stopping the legal Florida vote count which trampled the will of the people and installed bushthief against the will of the people in 2000. The 2022 Electoral Count reform Act won't prevent another Jeb/Harris anti-democracy cabal in another repug controlled state from doing exactly the same thing in a future election because it still gives the Governor too much power that will enable another Jeb type state Governor to send another bogus state vote total that doesn't count all of the legal votes as Jeb did in Florida in 2000. It's a fact that several hundred thousand legal votes sit uncounted in the Florida archives because of the Jeb/Harris cabal in 2000 that blocked these legal votes from being counted that was then rubberstamped by the repug controlled SCOTUS. This 2000 SCOTUS ruling has now established the precedent of the repug controlled SCOTUS trampling the will of the people by not counting all of the legal votes cast in a state and installing their repug Presidential candidate in the White House regardless of what the voters actually say.
You again fail to note that the U.S. constitution does not give the SCOTUS the authority to settle a disputed Presidential election. The U.S. constitution gives the authority to settle a disputed Presidential election to the U.S. House of Representatives NOT the SCOTUS. You should have learned this fact in elementary school. I certainly did. In 2000, the repug controlled SCOTUS shredded the U.S. constitution and invented the ability of the SCOTUS to now be able to decide who occupies the White House by trampling the will of the people in order to install their preferred Presidential candidate.
You again fail to note that now repug SCOTUS judges Roberts, Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett all worked as lawyers to help bushthief stop the legal Florida vote count in 2000. They were rewarded for their anti-democracy behavior with appointments to the SCOTUS. Roberts was a reward from bushthief and Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett are the orange turd's efforts to copy the bushthief/ Florida 2000 all out assault on American democracy and have the repug controlled SCOTUS install him the way it installed bushthief in 2000. You also again fail to note that Thomas was 1 of the 5 repug SCOTUS judges to vote to stop the legal Florida vote count and not count all of the legal votes in 2000 and install bushthief against the will of the people and he's still on the SCOTUS and being routinely bought off by anti-democracy repug billionaires. That's 4 repug SCOTUS judges right their. I have no doubt that repug SCOTUS judges Gorsuch and Alito who is the now author of the horrid Dobbs decision have the maga credentials to join the other 4 maga SCOTUS judges to install the orange turd in 2024. They further proved it with the Presidential immunity ruling earlier this year
You also fail to note that earlier this year, the 6 current repug SCOTUS judges, Roberts, Thomas, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Coney-Barrett all voted to give the orange turd complete immunity from prosecution for any illegal acts he commits. You fail to understand that nowhere does the U.S. constitution say that the President is above the law and immune from prosecution. This is another invention by the maga, repug SCOTUS majority to help the orange turd to be above the law and not be held accountable for his numerous crimes which include his attempt to overthrow the federal government in 2020. It took the mada, repug controlled SCOTUS 8 months to rule on this case that they never should have taken in the first place because it's so contrary to what's actually in the U.S. constitution.
You don't seem to have any clue who these maga, repug extremists are that now control the SCOTUS. They all have very long and well established bodies of rulings that clearly expose their extremist maga agenda that they were appointed to the SCOTUS to impose on we the people. This maga, repug SCOTUS majority is badly out of touch with the majority view of most Americans. There's no better example of this than the horrid Dobbs decision that took away women's right to control their own bodies by overturning. the 50 precedent of the Roe vs Wade decision.
It's clear to me that you have no previous election campaign experience because you clearly lack any of knowledge of the fact that the repug SCOTUS has already installed their preferred Presidential candidate in the White House in 2000 and your lack of knowledge of the U.S. constitution and how the repug controlled SCOTUS shredded the U.S. constitution in order to install bushthief in 2000 and give the orange turd immunity from prosecution in 2024.Unlike you, I have 24 years of experience working on dem election campaigns. 15 of my years were spent in Florida. I actually worked under the Florida election laws that the repug controlled SCOTUS shredded in 2000 in order to trample the will of the people and install bushthief. You clearly have no such experience.
You further fail to understand that the orange turd is clearly following the Presidential election theft roadmap that bushthief created in 2000 that resulted in the repug controlled SCOTUS stopping the legal Florida vote count and installing him in the White House. The orange turd thinks he's now appointed the radical, maga, repug SCOTUS judges who'll install him in the White House in 2024.
In what alternate universe are you living in that you think that the 6 maga, repugs who currently control the SCOTUS would vote to allow V.P. Harris to become President if she gets the most votes in the electoral college? You're the one living in the fantasy world.
I've provided you with a very specific example of when the repug controlled SCOTUS appointed their preferred candidate to the White House in 2000 and I've provided you with what's actually in the constitution that the repug controlled SCOTUS shredded in 2000 and continues to shred in 2024. It's not my fault that you can't handle these ugly facts and truths. I'm also not the only one expressing the fear that once again the repug controlled SCOTUS will install the repug Presidential candidate. None other that constitutional law professor and constitutional law scholar Kate Shaw expressed my exact same fear in a recent interview. Most people who post in DU understand these ugly truths and facts and they too are worried that the repug controlled SCOTUS could again manufacture a way to again trample the will of the people and install the orange turd in 2024.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)Irrelevant, as only two Justices from 2000 are on the current court. That ruling, as wrong as it was, was based on the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, a loophole that arose because Gore only challenged the counting in a few counties rather than the whole state. The ruling didn’t interfere with the process of the joint session of congress on January 6.
And yet, when handed numerous opportunities in 2020, these 2000 Bush v Gore accomplices, along with Thomas, Alito, and Roberts declined to install Trump - why not then, and why will they this time? If they don’t require a legal constitutional rationale to install Trump, then why didn’t they do it in 2020? I’ve asked you this several times, and you still refuse to answer.
OK, name the states/governors who will submit false slates of electors and will flip the election to Trump. I only come up with maybe Georgia, and even that’s doubtful, since Trump has threatened Kemp’s wife. The only other swing state with a republican Governor is NV- do you think NV will submit a false slate of electors? I trust that NC, AZ, PA, MI, WI will not have any unlawful meddling from their governors.
You rant and rant, and proclaim your knowledge, wisdom and experience from years of campaign work, yet you fail to offer any substantive example, evidence or details of how SCOTUS would install Trump except to point to Bush v Gore as PROOF! they will do it again.
I don’t deny SCOTUS meddling is possible, but given their refusal to act in 2020, I’d say the odds are lower than you think they are.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)FYI, what the repug contolled SCOTUS did to install bushthief in 2000 forms the basis of the threat that the current maga, extremist repug contolled SCOTUS poses to our country in 2024. You need to stop spreading this repug misinformation that it's irrelevant and stop ignoring this ugly truth. The orange turd is clearly following the bushthief anti-democracy 2000 Presidential election theft roadmap and you refuse to acknowledge that ugly reality. You also continue to spread more repug misinformation concerning the 14th amendment, the Gore campaign and the lack of SCOTUS authority to settle a disputed Presidential election.
As I've already explained to you in another thread, the Gore campaign followed Florida election law to the letter. Vote total disputes were handled at the county level in Florida, NOT the state level. If you knew anything about Florida election law, you would know that fact. The Florida courts repeatedly ruled to count the uncounted votes because Florida election law required that they be counted. It was bushthief who then ran to the repug controlled SCOTUS to stop the Florida vote count because he knew he'd lose if all of the uncounted votes were counted.
You also don't understand that Amy Coney-Barrett was not on the SCOTUS when most of the 2020 election rulings were handed down so they didn't have enough votes because RBG was still on the court.
You still don't understand that the U.S. constitution gives the U.S. House of Representatives the authority to settle a disputed Presidential election and NOT the SCOTUS. I suggest you read that portion of the U.S. constitution to see it for yourself. What the repug controlled SCOTUS did to install bushthief in 2000 was a blatant violation of the separation of powers and judicial activism at its worst.
You also fail to understand that NOT counting all of the uncounted Florida votes was a blatant violation of the 14th amendment. You seem to think it's perfectly fine to count all of the repug votes including the repug votes that the counting machines couldn't read but not all of the dem votes including the dem votes that the counting machines couldn't read. How anti democracy and anti equal protection clause of the 14th amendment of you. Why do you continue to defend such blatant anti-democracy SCOUTS behavior in 2000? What the repug controlled SCOTUS did in 2000 was a ruling that only repugs and dictaors could love.
Why do you continue to defend the radical extremist maga majority that currently controls the SCOTUS. Do you approve of their radical extremist rullings that have taken away women's right to control their own bodies, given the orange turd immunity from prosecution for his numerous crimes, preventing the EPA from taking action to mitigate the worst effect of climate change and end affirmative action by restoring white male affirmative action?
You clearly don't understand that the orange turd put Kavanaugh and Coney-Barret on the SCOTUS in an effort to get the repug controlled SCOTUS to appoint him just like it appointed bushthief in 2000. What 1 or 2 states may wind up as close as Florida was in 2000 is currently an open question. The possibility certainly exists and the threat is real. Be rest assured that the Harris/Walz campaign is bracing for such a nightmare scenario.
I find it shocking that anyone who posts at DU would be so determined to spread repug misinformation on well documented facts and be so clueless to the threat that our country is now facing.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)- Barrett was confirmed in October 2020, before the election; regardless, the court had a 5-3 conservative majority, so why didnt they install Trump then? Why do you continue to refuse to answer this question?
- In 2008, there was a 5-4 conservative majority on the court; why didn’t they install McCain as president then?
- in 2012, there was a 5-4 conservative majority on the court; why didn’t they install Romney as president then?
You continue to point to a ruling from 24 years ago , plus other recent rulings favourable to Trump, as proof that the current SCOTUS will install him as president, while ignoring the other relevant facts, including:
- despite numerous opportunities in 2020, this same SCOTUS, minus KBJ, but including ACB, declined to install Trump, and ruled against/denied cert in every elections case that came before them.
I’m not.
I don’t approve, I just don’t accept those rulings as PROOF! that they will install Trump in 2024.
I understand that was Trump’s motivation in appointing them, I also acknowledge the truth that they didn’t act as he wished and install him in 2020, when they could have used the same twisted, convoluted, irrational logic they used in Dobbs, Immunity, and other rulings to do so.
I acknowledge all of the ugly truths, yours and mine, but I reach a different conclusion than you do.
If you choose to reply, won’t you please honour my request and answer these questions:
In 2020, why did this SCOTUS, with its 6-3 (or 5-3 if you exclude ACB, even though she was sworn in) conservative majority, decline numerous cases that would have provided them the opportunity to craft a ruling that would have installed Trump as president?
Knowing this court declined to intervene/meddle in the 2020 election, what evidence (aside from the 2000 Bush v Gore ruling, and recent immunity ruling) leads to believe so fervently, passionately and with certainty that they will choose to meddle in 2024?
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)You're the one with the problem. You refuse to acknowledge the unconstitutional, anti-democracy precedent that was set in 2000 when the repug controlled SCOTUS invented an authority that the U.S. constitution doesn't give it in order to trample the will of the people and install their personally preferred Presidential candidate in the White House. You are totally clueless at how unconstitutional and anti-democracy the 2000 repug controlled SCOTUS ruling actually was. You need to understand that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. In 2000, the repug controlled SCOTUS invented a right for themselves that does NOT exist in the U.S. constitution! Again, the U.S. constitution does NOT give the SCOTUS the authority to settle a disputed Presidential election. The U.S. constitution gives the U.S. House of Representatives the authority to settle a disputed Presidential election. Why don't you understand this? You also fail to understand that the SCOTUS had never interfered in a disputed Presidential election before 2000 because before 2000 the SCOTUS judges understood that they did NOT have that authority under the constitution!
Your lack of election campaign experience, your lack of election law knowledge and your lack of knowledge of the U.S. constitution combined with your refusal to understand how consequential the 2000 repug controlled SCOTUS ruling was and how pro orange turd the the now maga extremist controlled SCOTUS immunity ruling was in addition to your failure to acknowledge the long history of extremist views that the 6 maga extremists that now control the SCOTUS have issued in writing over the years combined with the fact that 4 of them have direct involvement in the anti-democracy unconstitutional 2000 ruling that stopped the legal Florida vote count and installed bushthief against the will of the people makes you dangerously naïve. You continue to fail to understand that these 6 extremists were put on the SCOTUS to impose the fascist agenda onto our country that the repugs had failed for decades to get passed in Congress.
It's pretty clear to me that you need a remedial class on the U.S. constitution because you clearly don't understand where the authority for conducting elections and handling election disputes actually is concerning the U.S. constitution I don't care to continue wasting my time trying to tutor you about things that you should've really learned about the U.S. constitution in elementary school. You might also want to try volunteering on a dem election campaign. You have much to learn on that front as well.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)Instead you continue to rant about the 2000 ruling, and ignore the conservative majority’s failure to install the republican candidate in 2008, 2012, as well as 2020, despite having the votes.
P.S. you know nothing of my past experience in working for Dem campaigns, nor of my education in Constitutional law- it’s nothing I feel the need to brag about, because I make my arguments from logic and fact, not from some artificially constructed position of authority.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts). Since 2000 no state has had such a close Presidential election result as Florida had in 2000. That means that close election procedures haven't kicked in the states since 2000 that would involve the courts and make it again possible for the repug controlled SCOTUS to do what it did in 2000. You continue to be an apologist for the radial maga majority that now controls the SCOTUS. You totally fail to understand that the current radical maga SCOTUS was made possible by the repug controlled SCOTUS in 2000 who shredded the U.S. constitution, trashed the separation of powers and trashed the will of the people to install their personally preferred Presidential candidate who then appointed 2 of the radical repug extremists now on the SCOTUS.. Your every post continues to show me your lack of knowledge of the U.S. constitution and your lack of knowledge about procedures that come into play in close elections. I've tried to explain it to you but you seem both unable and unwilling to understand. You also offer no explanation as to any experience you have that makes you think that you're such an authority on this. Your posts tell me otherwise.Your posts lead me to believe that you are a repug troll.
FYI, given your continuing downplaying of bushthief's theft of the 2000 Presidential election with help from the repug controlled SCOTUS, I would point out to you that contained in the Special Counsel's latest court filing in the January 6th case is testimony that orange turd aides admitted to wanting to cause another riot after the 2020 election just like the Brooks Brothers riot in Florida in 2000 shut down the legal Presidential vote count in Miami-Dade county in 2000 that was organized and paid for by the bushthief campaign. What bushthief and the repug controlled SCOTUS did to our country in 2000 will haunt our country forever. It's long overdue for you to figure this out. There is a very real possibility in 2024 that one or 2 states will have results close enough in the 2024 Presidential election that would trigger close election procedures in those states that would then give the maga extremist SCOTUS majority the opportunity to hand the election to their preferred candidate just like what happened in 2000. It's time for you to take your head out of the sand and face this very real possibility. I'm tired of trying to explain this to you given your unwillingness to face facts and truth that yoy clearly can't handle.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)The question before you is:
When given numerous opportunities, why didn’t the current (minus KBJ) SCOTUS act to install Trump in 2020?
Recount laws are not essential to answering this question, since this same rogue conservative court has acted without logical legal triggers before; they have simply ruled on whatever flimsy, contrived case made its way to the court’s docket. There were numerous flimsy, contrived “election fraud” cases sent to this court in 2020- why didn’t they take one or more and use them as an excuse to install Trump?
Your consistent repetition of the same irrelevant issues and events, along with personal insults (repug troll? I’ve been here 20 years- how about you?) leads me to presume you are either incapable of formulating a coherent answer to a relatively simple question, or you are absolutely terrified at what answering this question might reveal about you.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)Once again you prove that you've never worked on an election campaign because you're totally clueless about procedures for handling close elections actually are and how essential those procedures are to providing the perfect opportunity for the maga controlled SCOTUS to steal another Presidential election just like what happened in 2000. Your refusal to acknowledge any of the facts that I've repeatedly provided for you and your continuing defense of the maga extremist SCOTUS majority that currently controls the SCOTUS only strengthens my view that you are clearly a repug troll. I can't help it if you're so willing to ignore history, facts and the extremist and well documented rulings of the maga SCOTUS majority and the direct involvement of 4 of them in helping bushthief steal the 2000 election in Florida.. I'm not wasting any more time with you. It's time for you to move on.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)Then we would find out if your imagined SCOTUS coup nightmare comes true…
Anyway, I’ll save you a spot by the punch bowl at the Harris victory party, where you can resume insulting my intelligence if you choose.
Me, I’ll be teaching Gus Walz how to do the Macarena…
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)FYI, most people who post at DU understand that the repug controlled SCOTUS carried out an anti democracy coup when they stopped the legal Florida vote count and installed bushthief in 2000. Why don't you.? FYI, your own words show your lack of knowledge about election processes and working on election campaigns. You're the one who is ignoring the very real coup carried out by the repug controlled SCOTUS in 2000. You have no understanding that the repug controlled SCOTUS blocked the counting of several hundred thousand legal votes in Florida in 2000. Only a repug troll would ignore the repug controlled SCOTUS coup in 2000.
Again, the ugly truth is that the repug controlled SCOTUS has already carried out a coup in Florida in 2000. Where were you when that happened? On Mars? The current maga repug controlled SCOTUS has already given the orange turd immunity from prosecution for his anti democracy crimes. Their next step is to hand the White House to the orange turd so that he can turn out country into a Nazi dictatorship. The current maga SCOTUS is more than ready to do so thanks to their orange turd immunity from prosecution ruling. You seem perfectly fine with that because you're a repug troll. You've defended the repug controlled SCOTUS and their anti-democracy behavior at every turn. You have no idea what it is to work on a dem election campaign because again, you're a repug troll.
You leave sweet Gus Walz out of this. You've never met him and you've never worked on any election campaign, especially NOT a Presidential election campaign. It's time for you to move on. Your clearly can't handle the fact that the repug controlled SCOTUS has already carried out a coup in 2000. I'm curious to understand what part of move on don't you understand? I'm done wasting my time with you, repug troll.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)In my 20 years here, you might be the most unintentionally funny poster I’ve encountered.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)You're the only DU poster who refuses to acknowledge that the repug controlled SCOTUS stole the 2000 election by stopping the legal Florida vote count. This is well documented fact. Deal with it.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)You should go back and reread my posts in response to yours.
I said no such thing; feel free to copy and paste any excerpt from my posts where I denied the SCOTUS intervention in Bush v Gore in 2000. I only acknowledged that the court used the 14th amendment equal protection clause as their cover. Just because I don’t use the same histrionic language that you do doesn’t mean I don’t remember the travesty of that election.
My challenge to you, which you continue to fearfully avoid responding to, is this simple question:
If you are certain SCOTUS will steal this election for Trump, what legal rationale will they use, and why didn’t they use it in 2020? Even the most heinous ruling would have to have some sort of foundational legal opinion attached to it, no matter how contrived. The court can’t and won’t just rule “we hereby proclaim Donald J Trump to be the 47th president of the United States, because we say so”.
So far, you have only provided irrelevant tangential responses that boil down to “argle bargle, argle bArGle, bushthief 2000!!!”.
Surely someone with your wisdom and experience could articulate a coherent, reasoned hypothetical scenario detailing just how SCOTUS will steal the election for Trump.
I eagerly, no breathlessly, await your erudite reply.
Sincerely, your favorite “repug troll” (you know it makes me blush whenever you use your pet name for me)
FT
P.S. have you picked out your tux for the Harris victory party yet? I’m having a heck of a time finding one with a sky blue paisley brocade with matching top hat- any suggestions?
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)I've drawn you pictures and you still don't get it. You're the only DU poster who doesn't understand that the radical 6 repugs who currently control the SCOTUS will strike again the way the repug controlled SCOTUS struck in 2000. The radical 6 repugs who now control the SCOTUS made that clear with the immunity ruling giving the orange turd immunity from prosecution and their waiting 8 long months to issue that ruling. You're the only DU poster who doesn't understand this. You've defended the radical 6 repugs whonow control the SCOTUS at every turn. No one else posting at DU is doing that. You're a clear outlier and as far as I'm concerned, you're a repug troll. I'm done wasting my time with you. You totally fail to understand that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)I’m baffled at why my simple question scares you so much that you refuse to answer it:
Why didn’t this same SCOTUS (minus KBJ) install Trump in 2020? They had the votes, the same radical extremist ideology, and over 60 court cases they could have used as contrived legal cover for their ruling giving the win to Trump.
But they didn’t.
WHY?
I understand it enough that I acknowledge the reality that Trump lost in 2020, despite having a SCOTUS that could’ve installed him, but chose not to.
Why can’t you acknowledge that Joe Biden won in 2020, and this same SCOTUS refused to install Trump?
I guess Answering that question would cause your whole histrionic house of cards to collapse, and then you’d have to face the reality that Harris could win, despite this corrupt SCOTUS.
P.S you say you’re done wasting time with me, but I know, deep in your heart, “you can’t quit me”.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)You've never typed in any of your posts that the repug controlled SCOTUS stole the 2000 Presidential election in a judicial coup d'état. Why won't you type this ugly truth in any of your posts? Why do you still defend the current radical, maga, repug controlled SCOTUS? Are you not familiar with the maga, repug controlled SCOTUS upholding recent repug gerrymandering cases with districts rigged to ensure 1 party repug state control for numerous state and congressional districts that divide and dilute dem voting areas in repug states? You're the only one posting at DU who refuses to answer these 2 simple questions. Why do you refuse to admit that the current radical maga, repug controlled SCOTUS majority was installed by the repug controlled U.S. Senate to impose their Nazi agenda on our country? Real dems know well the answer to both of my questions. You clearly don't which is why you're not a real dem. You continue to ignore the title of this thread which is repugs are laying the legal groundwork for election challenges. You clearly seem to be on Mars. I will never back down from the truth that you refuse to admit. It's long past time for you to move on. What part of move on don't you understand?
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)Just got this from Mark Elias of Democracy Docket:
Is this a head fake before SCOTUS acts to steal the election for Trump, or an early clue that, as was the case in 2020, this court will not rescue Trump?
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)Why do you still refuse to put in writing the fact that the repug controlled SCOTUS stole the 2000 Presidential election by stopping the legal Florida vote count in a judicial coup d'état? Why do you refuse to post the fact that the repug controlled SCOTUS already stole a Presidential election in 2000? You're the only DU poster who refuses to admit that ugly truth. This is why I believe that you are a repug troll. It's time for you to stop ignoring history and move on.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)60 court cases in 2020, yet this same SCOTUS (minus KBJ) declined to use any of these cases as a contrived pretext to flip the election to Trump - Why is that?
As far as me putting in writing my thoughts about Bush v Gore in 2000, feel free to search the DU archives - I’ve been here 20 years under the same user name.(surely I must be the longest surviving “repug troll” in DU history, and one who donates to Democracy Docket to boot!)
Meanwhile, as you approach your one year anniversary here at DU, I’ve yet to see you put in writing your perspective on why this same SCOTUS (minus KBJ) declined to install Trump as president in 2020- they had the votes, why didn’t they do it?
Hope you’re still here to celebrate the Harris/Walz victory in November!
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)You're the one who continues to ignore the repug controlled SCOTUS 2000 election stealing precedent. You still refuse to put in writing that the repug controlled SCOTUS stole the 2000 Presidential election by stopping the legal Florida vote count in a judicial coup d'état. Why won't you put this irrefutable fact in writing? You continue to defend the current maga repug controlled SCOTUS despite their giving the orange turd immunity from prosecution that only kings and dictators have and despite their upholding of blatant repug gerrymandering in order to establish 1 party rule. These bad rulings have clearly put the maga repug controlled SCOTUS on the path for stealing another Presidential election. You can be sure that the Harris/Walz campaign is bracing for this.
Unlike you, I have 24 years of experience working on dem election campaigns, everything from local state legislative campaigns all the way to Presidential campaigns. 15 of my years of working on dem election campaigns were spent in Florida. You have no such election campaign experience. FYI, posting on DU is NOT election campaign experience. Your comments concerning the stolen 2000 Presidential campaign that you made to me were taken straight from bushthief campaign talking points. You know nothing about Florida election law in 2000 and the bushthief campaign's all out assault on American democracy that was rubberstamped by the repug controlled SCOTUS in a judicial coup d'état. You don't understand that the now radical maga repug controlled SCOTUS has put themselves on the path to steal another Presidential election given the help they've provided the orange turd with the immunity ruling and the pro repug gerrymandering rulings. It's time for you to face the ugly truth that the repug controlled SCOTUS has already stolen a Presidential election. After you admit that, it's time for you to move on. WHAT PART OF MOVE ON DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)…since clearly you don’t want to be in the same room with me. Looks like you’ll still be posting “bushthief2000!!!” Rant responses right up to election night and beyond, while the rest of us are celebrating the Harris/Walz victory. Meanwhile, I will continue to enjoy your entertaining, albeit repetitive and histrionic correspondence.
Speaking of Move On, I was a donor for many years.
P.S. I still have my Mondale/Ferraro pin from canvassing precincts in 1984; I’m proud to say our county was one of only three in the entire state to go for Mondale that year.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)Your description of my pointing out the facts concerning George W. Bush's theft of the 2000 Presidential election in Florida with the help of his little brother, Florida campaign co-chair and corrupt repug controlled SCOTUS as "rants" is more attacks on the Gore 2000 campaign and it really tells me all I need to know. A stolen Presidential election is right in front of your face and you still refuse to admit it. FYI, I still have my Mondale/Ferraro campaign items too along with many other dem campaigns, along with Presidential inauguration invites and Gore 2000 campaign items. There's much more to campaigns than door to door canvassing that you seem to be clueless about. You now seem to think that making online contributions to a legal group is working on a campaign. It's a drop in the bucket.
FYI, you're the one harassing me because you can't handle the truth about bushthief's theft of the 2000 Presidential election with the help of the repug controlled SCOTUS. IT'S TIME FOR YOUR HARASSMENT TO STOP. WHAT PART OF MOVE ON DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)Admit it, you just can’t quit me.
As I said before, I continue to engage with you for the sheer entertainment value of your “arglebargle bushthief2000!” rants.
If you really wanted to punish me, you’d stop responding to my posts.
Then I’d be left in a puddle of my own tears, bereft at your heartless rejection.
But you just can’t bring yourself to do it.
Until next time, 
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)You're the one who attacked me from the beginning for posting the truth that the current maga repug controlled SCOTUS is positioning itself to steal another Presidential election. You continue to defend this maga repug controlled SCOTUS and their bad rulings at every turn. You refuse to admit the the truth that the repug controlled SCOTUS stole the 2000 Presidential election. You should've never have responded to my post because you've made it clear that you can't handle the truth, You're the one calling the truth a rant. How pro bushthief of you. You're the one who thinks it's ok for several hundred thousand legally cast Florida votes, most of them cast by dems of color sit uncounted in the Florida archives. Are you always so nasty to people who disagree with you? You're the one who needs to stop. WHAT PART OF STOP HARASSING ME AND MOVE ON DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)We’re discussin’ stuff.
(One of us more emotionally than the other)
On discussion boards, people often disagree, that’s just how it goes.
Until next time,
Yours truly,
FT
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)and hand the 2024 election to the orange turd the way the GOP controlled SCOTUS handed the 2000 election to bushthief.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)GoreWon2000
(985 posts)Plus the fact that in Moore vs Harper the maga SCOTUS majority made it clear that they would be back to interfere in elections if they saw fit. Let's also not forget the terrible Presidential immunity ruling that was totally delayed and then written for the orange turd which now makes the President a dictator and has no basis in the U.S. constitution just like the bushthief vs Gore ruling. Let's also not forget that Roberts, Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett were all attorneys for bushthief in 2000 which is why they were put on the SCOTUS.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)Barrett was confirmed in late October 2020.
In any case, even without Barrett’s vote, that left a 5-3 conservative majority.
Trump lost 60 court cases challenging the election results in 2020- the few that made it to SCOTUS were almost universally denied cert.
So why would a court that declined to install Trump in 2020 suddenly decide to do so in 2024?
They may intervene, depending on the cases brought before them, but I don’t expect Marc Elias to make the same mistakes Gore’s team made in 2000, and give SCOTUS an opening to tip the outcome to Trump.
Walk me through your imagined scenario where a SCOTUS ruling hands the presidency to Trump- show your work, including the state/states involved in this hypothetical. Dont forget the role the Electoral Count Act plays, as well as the Separation of Powers regarding the joint session of congress on January 6 where SCOTUS has no jurisdiction.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)15 of my 24 years spent working on dem election campaigns were spent in Florida. I actually worked under the election laws that the Rehnquist 5 shredded in addition to shredding the U.S. constitution in order to thwart the will of the people and install bushthief in 2000. .It's a fact that there's no basis in the U.S. constitution for the bushthief vs Gore ruling because the U.S. constitution does NOT give the SCOTUS the authority to settle a disputed Presidential election. The U.S. constitution gives that authority to the U.S. House of Representatives. No SCOTUS had ever intervened in a disputed Presidential election before 2000. It's well established fact that Roberts, Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett all worked as attorneys to help bushthief steal the 2000 election in Florida and that fact contributed to them being appointed to the SCOTUS. It's also a fact that Thomas was part of the Rehnquist 5 who handed the 2000 election to bushthief. It's a fact that the Presidential immunity ruling has no basis in the U.S. constitution. Nowhere in the U.S. constitution does it say that the President is above the law and immune from prosecution. This is another invention by another repug controlled SCOTUS to kill American democracy and turn our country into a dictatorship. It concerns me that you are dangerously naïve about just how dangerous the SCOTUS now is thanks to highly partisan repug judges acting like highly partisan politicians instead of impartial judges. This is your wake up call.
Fiendish Thingy
(18,529 posts)Bush v Gore was a ruling on the grounds of Equal Protection under the 14th amendment, a loophole left open when Gore only challenged certain precincts/districts, not the entire state.
SCOTUS ruled the counting/recounting must be stopped. This indeed gave the election Bush, and, as bad as it was, didn’t stray into separation of powers issues. If, by some imagined scenario, SCOTUS attempted to rule outright that Trump is the next president, Congress would ignore the ruling and proceed as required in the constitution to count the electoral votes on January 6, which SCOTUS has no jurisdiction over.
Still haven’t seen a believable scenario where SCOTUS tips the election to Trump, only your simplistic “just cuz” reasoning.
SCOTUS is indeed capable of outrageous rulings, and yet, when it comes down to it, they have declined in previous opportunities to install Trump in the WH- why?
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)Unlike you 15 of my 24 years spent working on dem election campaigns were spent in Florida. Your post clearly shows me that you've never worked on any election campaigns anywhere and that you certainly have no understanding of Florida election law in 2000. Unlike you, I actually worked under the Florida election laws that the repug controlled SCOTUS shredded in 2000 so I know the laws and the disputed territory well because I actually lived there. These laws that were on the books in Florida in 2000 were passed in the aftermath of the 1876 Presidential election that Florida also played a pivotal role in. Unlike in 2000, in 1876 the votes were sent to and actually counted in Tallahassee, the state capitol. In both 1876 and 2000, the Governor's party controlled Florida's 3 member canvassing board . In both 1876 and 2000, Florida had repug Governors which meant that the repugs controlled the canvassing boards so there were 2 repugs and 1 dem on the canvassing boards in both cases. However in 1876, the repug controlled Florida state canvassing board had very wide latitude for throwing out votes simply because they could. This resulted in the votes of 1,800 democrats being thrown out in a highly partisan act which was enough votes to change the outcome of the 1876 Presidential election in Florida. The reforms that were passed in the aftermath of the 1876 election now required that all votes where the intent of the voter is clear be counted. This was an effort to make sure that every vote is counted and that never again would legal votes be thrown out by the state canvassing board because of blatant political partisanship. In addition, the votes would now be counted in the counties where they were actually cast and not be sent to Tallahassee the state capitol to be counted. This now meant that vote count disputes would be handled in the counties where the votes were actually cast and not by the state in Tallahassee. Because of these changes to Florida's election law, Florida had no mechanism for filing a vote challenge at the state level in 2000. You clearly don't know this Florida election law history and you don't understand this fact.
You clearly don't understand that the Gore campaign followed Florida election law in 2000 to the letter. Florida election law in 2000 required that county vote total disputes be filed in the counties where the votes were actually cast so the Gore campaign filed their vote total disputes in the Florida counties with the most uncounted votes. These counties turned out to be the largest and most heavily democratic voting counties in Florida. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who these voters voted for. In 2000, bushthief's campaign had the same right to file vote total disputes in any counties where they disputed the vote total. The bushthief campaign filed no county vote total disputes because they knew that most of the uncounted votes were located in the largest and most heavily democratic voting counties. This reality meant victory for Al Gore and the bushthief campaign was determined to prevent that at all costs. You also seem to be unaware that in a very public speech during the dispute, Al Gore actually offered to stop the legal proceedings if bushthief would agree to a statewide count of the uncounted votes. bushthief refused because again he knew that counting all of the uncounted votes meant victory for Al Gore and he was determined to prevent that from happening at all costs.
Again, you clearly continue to NOT understand that the U.S. constitution does NOT give the authority to the SCOTUS to settle a disputed Presidential election. The U.S. constitution very clearly gives the authority to settle a disputed Presidential election to the elected by the people U.S. House of Representatives by actually spelling out that authority. The founders of our country did not want unelected SCOTUS judges deciding who occupies the White House. I learned this fact in elementary school, why didn't you? What the repug controlled SCOTUS did in 2000 to install bushthief was most clearly a blatant violation of the separation of powers that you clearly don't understand. The SCOTUS should never have taken the case because it was totally outside their constitutional authority. For the record, in 2013 repug SCOTUS Judge Sandra Day O'Connor finally publicly admitted that the SCOTUS should never have taken the case. Another repug SCOTUS judge Antonin Scalia also publicly admitted that the decision was "shit" his description that I totally agree with. The bushthief vs Gore ruling was blatantly unconstitutional, unjust and anti-democracy. Most legal scholars at the time of the ruling roundly criticized the decision on those grounds.
You also clearly don't understand that the U.S. constitution gives the states the authority to conduct elections. The repug controlled SCOTUS clearly took this right away from Florida in order to stop the legal vote count and install their preferred candidate bushthief against the will of the people. The repug controlled SCOTUS was also well aware that the uncounted Florida votes were located in the largest and most heavily democratic voting counties. The truth is the repug controlled SCOTUS acted like highly partisan politicians and not impartial judges. The pro democracy thing to do was to count the uncounted votes which is what the Florida courts had repeatedly ruled. The repug controlled SCOUTS couldn't have that because they knew that counting the uncounted votes meant victory for Al Gore. Sandra Day O'Connor had made it publicly known that she wanted to retire to care for her ill husband and she did not want Al Gore picking her SCOTUS successor. Judge Scalia had a son who worked during the election dispute for one of the legal firms that bushthief had hired to help him stop the legal Florida vote count and the list of SCOTUS conflicts that they should have recused themselves from the case for goes on.
Finally, you don't seem to understand that not counting all of the uncounted Florida votes was a blatant violation by the repug controlled SCOTUS of the 14th amendment's equal protection clause. For the record, Florida had a remedy for counting votes that the vote counting machines couldn't read. County election supervisors were given the authority to hand duplicate and count ballots where the intent of the voter was clear that for whatever reason, the counting machines were unable to read. The county election supervisors were required to keep detailed logs of votes counted in such a manor. It turns out that 10,000 absentee ballots that the counting machines couldn't read were in fact hand duplicated and counted in this manor. Most of these absentee ballots were located in the most heavily repug voting counties in Florida and they favored bushthief by more than 2 to 1. Back in 2000, absentee ballots skewed repug because more repugs had the financial resources to be more than 50 miles from home on election day which was what was required to get an absentee ballot back then unless you were in the hospital, worked at the polls or on a campaign on election day. These mostly repug absentee ballot votes are included in the Jeb/Harris vote total. The bushthief campaign made no effort to dispute these hand duplicated absentee ballot votes because they so heavily favored bushethief. This is also despite the fact that bushthief claimed publicly to be opposed to hand counted votes. Hypocrisy at it's worst. The truth is this Florida law applied to all ballots that the counting machines couldn't read and NOT just absentee ballots in heavily repug voting counties. The different way that absentee ballots in heavily repug voting Florida counties were treated compared to how ballots the counting machines couldn't read in heavily dem voting counties is a blatant violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment that the repug controlled SCOTUS clearly rubberstamped in order to prevent all of the dem votes from being counted which meant victory for Al Gore.
Additionally, there are numerous additional anti-democracy behaviors carried out by Jeb and Harris to help steal the 2000 election for bushthief in Florida in 2000. I'll mention one more which is the "felon" purge where Jeb and Harris had more than 50,000 legally registered mostly African American democrats wrongly removed from Florida's voting rolls in 1999 and 2000 by wrongly identifying them as felons. They were never prosecuted for thisvery blatant and racist voter suppression..
In conclusion, most DU posters understand the ugly truth about what the repug controlled SCOTUS did to kill American democracy in 2000 and they well understand that the chance that it'll happen again given the radical, maga repug majority that currently controls the SCOTUS is very high. It's time for you to also face this ugly truth. There is no defense for ignoring the SCOTUS anti-democracy history of 2000 or for defending the radical, extremist, out of touch with we the people repug SCOTUS majority we currently have who'll stop at nothing to impose their fascist agenda on our country. This is your wake up call.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)You're the one with the magical thinking. It's clear that you can't handle the truth about the anti-democracy behavior of the repug controlled SCOTUS in 2000 and the radical, extremist maga SCOTUS majority that resulted because of what the repug controlled SCOTUS did in 2000. I'm not about to let you rewrite history and deny the all out assault on American democracy that repugs have been engaging in since 2000 because they know that their radical, extremist views prevent them from being elected. Your magical thinking and denial of history has you sounding just like them. You should be posting in a repug forum and not on DU.
CrispyQ
(38,273 posts)We need to stomp Trump into the ground & crush the maga movement & give VP Harris solid margins in Congress. That's how we won those 60+ cases last time. Let's do it again!
FakeNoose
(35,697 posts)... it makes us realize that the Repukes can't get their candidates elected unless they cheat.
They don't even wait for the election anymore. That's how skeevy this all is.
dchill
(40,478 posts)GoreWon2000
(985 posts)
CousinIT
(10,210 posts)There. I fixed it.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)
KPN
(16,110 posts)
dickthegrouch
(3,551 posts)And present those as interference in court too.
Not as both siderism but as proof that accusations are actually confessions.
Seems like it would be a long list.
dickthegrouch
(3,551 posts)Since there is no harm before the election.
Seems like there’s no standing beforehand either for the same reason. If the GOP wants to waste all those funds in court rather than campaigning on the (dubious) merits, we ought to be able to use that against them too.
And in reality there will have been no harm after it, as long as TSF loses again. 😊
BumRushDaShow
(142,417 posts)They are trying to "harm before the election" in some states -
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143314712
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143314145
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143314697
So have to be vigilant and I know many teams of lawyers from a number of groups have been on it.
dickthegrouch
(3,551 posts)Before nullifying 70+ million individual votes.
In the 21st century the EC is an unnecessary (even damaging) anacronism.
AZ8theist
(6,491 posts)The Reich Wing KNOWS it can never win the WH by popular vote. The EC is the ONLY thing keeping them competitive for president.
Maybe if they changed their fascist policies and stopped hating Americans, they might get some consideration. Plus not having an IMBECILIC CONVICTED FELON TRAITOR as their leader might help.....
moniss
(5,754 posts)always claiming that everybody's taxes will be slashed dramatically. A promise that of course will never happen for any but the rich.
mahina
(18,942 posts)“The lawsuit by the America First Legal Foundation, a conservative advocacy group, says the court in such cases should be able to toss the election results and order new rounds of voting in two counties in Arizona, where Democratic candidate Vice President Kamala Harris is leading Trump in the polls by a razor-thin margin”
That is such a nonsense. They are not a conservative advisory group. There is nothing conservative about them. They want to burn all of our constitutional rights down to the ground and have documented it. This careless use of language is journalistic malpractice.
GoreWon2000
(985 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(33,577 posts)Until at least a week after the election. I think the shenanigans are going to slow it down.
Think. Again.
(18,003 posts)...that this is their final shot, and that they know that if they don't get in this time, the entire dubious structure of their hate organization will fall apart.