Pa. Supreme Court again rules that Philly and other counties cannot count undated mail ballots

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: Philadelphia Inquirer

Published Nov. 18, 2024, 4:30 p.m. ET


The Pennsylvania Supreme Court on Monday issued a ruling reiterating its previous stance that undated or misdated mail ballots should not be counted in the 2024 election, dealing a blow to Democratic U.S. Sen. Bob Casey’s hopes that a recount and litigation will help him overcome his more than 15,000-vote deficit to Republican Dave McCormick.

The 4-3 ruling, which was requested by the Republican Party and opposed by Casey’s campaign, followed moves by elections officials in Democratic-controlled counties — including Philadelphia, Bucks, and Montgomery — to have the ballots counted despite the high court instructing them to exclude those votes earlier in the year. The ruling applies to all counties.

Democrats in those counties and elsewhere have pushed to include mail ballots with defects related to the dates voters are required to write on them because the dates are not used by election administrators to determine whether ballots are legitimate. Instead, they only count ballots that are received between when the ballots are distributed and Election Day, making it impossible for a vote to be counted outside of that timeframe regardless of what date a voter writes on the ballot.

Republicans have argued that those votes must be excluded from the count because state law requires voters to date their mail ballots. McCormick’s campaign joined the GOP lawsuit after it was filed. While the ruling settles how these types of ballots are handled this year, the longer legal battle may not be over because the court has not yet weighed in on the underlying question of whether rejecting undated ballots on what Democrats describe as a technicality constitutes a violation of rights guaranteed to voters by the state constitution.

Read more: https://www.inquirer.com/politics/philadelphia/pennsylvania-supreme-court-undated-mail-ballots-senate-recount-20241118.html

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No paywall (gift)

[bucolic_frolic]

1. Cannot understand what difference the date makes. It's not like it's the wrong year.

The instructions are still too long. Took 3 reads to find 'put it in the inner envelope' and 'seal' the inner and outer.

[Intractable]

8. "The instructions are still too long."

I agree. I forgot to put mine in the security envelope. I realized this after I sealed the outer envelope.

But, at least I remembered the all-important date.

[Jose Garcia]

2. For those keeping score at home, Democrats have a 5-2 majority in the Court

[kirby]

3. They may be interpreting the law correctly...

but the law is bullshit in the first place. These laws are nothing but obstacles for higher voter participation. Sure some people do not read instructions correctly or may have other issues but we need to make voting easier not harder.

[BumRushDaShow]

4. This is the issue exactly

The "law" (Act-77) was hastily devised as a means for the GOP to get rid of "straight-party ticket" voting that Democrats tended to widely utilize because it was easy (in the past, "pull one lever" or fill in one oval and the whole party slate was voted for).

The "exchange" was to suddenly allow "mail voting" by creating a new category - a "no excuse absentee ballot". That was the "sweetener" added to the bill so that-then Gov. Tom Wolf would sign off on it and he did.

I remember attending "telephone Town Halls" with my state Senator and asking about whether we would ever get mail ballots and at the time (before 2019), he was sure that it wasn't even being considered.

In any case, we did finally get mail ballots, but what they did with this was to add some hurdles like dates/signatures on outer envelopes (ignoring postmarks) and secrecy envelopes, etc., as well as require that no mail ballot be "canvased" (ballots removed from envelopes and prepped for scanning) until the polls opened on election day.

[Igel]

5. This is what democracy looks like.

You have a majority in two houses--sans filibuster--and a governor that agrees with them both and you get a law.

You can declare that democracy is only valid when it "bends towards" whatever our "justice" is or you can just say it is what it is. Democracy is a process and the outcome depends on the demos that has the kratos ('power over').

For important things, I like having at least a supermajority in favor. Squashes the 50%+1 idea, but means there's at least not a stochastic majority that prefers something. It's not "minority rule", it's "minority veto over rule by a simple majority"--the minority doesn't rule, it prevents being ruled over by a small difference in winners/losers.

As it is, that's Our Democracy and it's the kind of "democracy," minimal majority rules, that many yearn for. (Personally, having often been in the minority, I hate majoritarianism. A scant majority imposing something divisive and onerous on a scant minority is not "liberty", and our Constitution is set up to, among other things, "secure the blessings of liberty" to us and our progeny.)

Personally, I hate not having a "straight-party ticket" as an option. It was convenient. I could pull one lever, push one button, click one option, and all the races were filled in. Then I could review and and the few that I objected to without messing with the other 50-70 races. Now I have to do it by hand. On the other hand, too many just go in and say, "Corps is mother, corps is father" and on the basis of one or two prominent (or state) people vote all the way down the ballot--and often miss the issues at the bottom of most ballots I've seen.

[stopdiggin]

7. Well said. It is not 'democracy' only when it delivers the result

wished for. And "the law is bulls*it" argument - is exactly the line of reasoning that 'constitutional sheriffs' and Tina Peters anarchists espouse. We can do without that, thanks. And PA board of elections should have been listening to (obeying) court instructions all along.

[Deminpenn]

10. You had to sign and date absentee ballot envelopes before Act 77

When she was unable to vote in person, my parent voted by absentee. There was a secrecy envelope, too.

I voted by mail this year and the application and ballot materials were completely redesigned. The back of the outer envelope had only 2 things, a large box for signing and one for the date. It was big print, too, and the year 2024 was prefilled in. These blocks were facing the voter when they sealed the outer envelope. A voter really had to not pay attention to miss it.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. I had voted absentee when I was in college back when Carter was up against Raygun

and the process back then was all snail-mail and was nowhere near the nonsense that they have put in place today.

Philly had the ballot print contractor pre-fill the year on our outer envelopes as well, with a cleaner section shown for where to fill that info out, and that did help reduce the incidents but not eliminate them.

The "date" issue refuses to acknowledge that you have many active-duty and veteran military members who have been indoctirnated with DD-MM-YYYY (even if a form field shows otherwise). I.e., for today, November 19, 2024, you would have -

19-11-2024

19/11/2024

19 November, 2024

Similarly, those in UK Commonwealth countries utilize the "Day/Month/Year" format, with those descendants having done so since birth.

For example, in a "The Guardian" article (posted here - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143342668) the date/time stamp is -

Mon 18 Nov 2024 16.54 EST
Last modified on Mon 18 Nov 2024 16.57 EST

They published a list daily of those who needed to "cure" here and a good chunk seemed to be older voters (the printout included zip and birthdate along with the name) as well those who may have been foreign-language speakers (Hispanics, Asians), and then apparently some young whipper-snappers who probably did theirs at the last minute and shoved it in the mail.

[Deminpenn]

14. Worked for DoD and used

both 24 hour time and D/M/Y format for the date. It's not that hard to be able to do both.

[BumRushDaShow]

16. But for those who are naturalized citizens used to doing it "one way"

then that could easily be a source of the "wrong date" - even when the year is pre-filled.

[Deminpenn]

17. Again, it's not that hard

You just have to pay attention. When I was at my local courthouse doing in person mail ballot voting, a youngish guy was handing in his ballot just after me. His outer envelope hadn't been either signed or dated. I noticed and pointed it out to him. He wasn't military or an immigrant, just an average white guy who didn't read the instructions or pay attention.

[BumRushDaShow]

19. It's a habit/practice that in many non-U.S. nations and their schools

was probably strictly enforced .

My bigger concern with the date/signature is that it is on the OUTSIDE envelope and right there, with the fear of tampering with a mailbox or the mail, apparently no longer "a fear", some random check kiter could get into a mailbox looking for checks and also get snapshots of signatures on the outside of mail ballots, and off they go...

[Polybius]

6. Do we know who this hurts more?

Who are more prone to make mistakes with the dates? Republicans or Democrats?

[BumRushDaShow]

9. Unknown considering that the GOP was suddenly encouraged to use the mail ballot option.

and many apparently did.

[MichMan]

12. Bucks County Board of Commissioners chair, Diane Ellis-Marseglia

“People violate laws any time they want,” she added. “So, for me, if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention. There’s nothing more important than counting votes.”

This was after the Pennsylvania Supreme Court already ruled once on the issue, so her back pedaling now about wanting clarification from a court isn't logical.

[BumRushDaShow]

13. There were overlapping rulings on this

including those associated with "provisional ballots", along with the original mail ballots, where some Counties "violated the law" and refused to accept provisional ballots that were to be the replacements for the mail ballots with the defects.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143327252
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143332589

[Deminpenn]

15. I don't understand why the PA supreme court isn't ruling on the underlying

constitutional issue of whether a missing/wrong date violates a voter's right to have their vote counted.

Do they not have a specific case on that issue? I'd think these "missing date" cases would provide the court a reason to rule on the constitutionality.

[Jk23]

18. Honestly it is probably the right ruling. NT