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C0RI0LANUS

(1,862 posts)
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 07:31 PM Nov 28

New York Times Guest Essay: Democrats Ignored Gaza and Brought Down Their Party

Last edited Fri Nov 29, 2024, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)

https://vp.nyt.com/video/2024/11/06/129321_1_07Beinart_wg_1080p.mp4

Below is a copyrighted work first published in The New York Times by Peter Beinart (@PeterBeinart), a contributing Opinion writer at The Times. He’s also a professor at the Newmark School of Journalism at the City University of New York, an editor at large of Jewish Currents and writes The Beinart Notebook, a weekly newsletter. His book “Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza” is forthcoming.

During the presidential campaign, journalists trying to assess the electoral impact of Israel's war in Gaza often focused on Arab and Muslim voters, particularly in Michigan. That’s understandable. In the heavily Arab American city of Dearborn, Mich., which supported Joe Biden in 2020, results show that Donald Trump beat Kamala Harris by about six percentage points.

But viewing Gaza’s political repercussions merely through the lens of identity misses something fundamental. Over the past year, Israel’s slaughter and starvation of Palestinians — funded by U.S. taxpayers and live-streamed on social media — has triggered one of the greatest surges in progressive activism in a generation. Many Americans roused to action by their government’s complicity in Gaza’s destruction have no personal connection to Palestine or Israel. Like many Americans who protested South African apartheid or the Vietnam War, their motive is not ethnic or religious. It is moral.

The outrage has been particularly intense among Black Americans and the young. This spring, encampments expressing solidarity with the Palestinian people rose on more than 100 college campuses. In February, the Council of Bishops of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, one of the nation’s most prominent Black congregations, called the war in Gaza a “mass genocide” and demanded that the Biden-Harris administration stop funding it. In June, the NAACP urged an end to weapons shipments as well. A June CBS News poll found that while most voters over the age of 65 supported arms sales to Israel, voters under the age of 30 opposed them by a ratio of more than three to one. And while only 56 percent of white voters favored cutting off weapons, among Black voters the figure was 75 percent.

--Snip--



Links:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/07/opinion/democrats-israel-gaza-war.html

https://archive.is/9QlFW

Footnote: A few weeks I wrote about the parallels between the 1968 and 2024 elections.
DU-ers can politely agree or disagree with Mr. Beinart's analysis (or mine, which are similar). The BLUF is helping the American Democratic Party to defeat the GOP in 2028 and all the races in-between and afterwards.






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New York Times Guest Essay: Democrats Ignored Gaza and Brought Down Their Party (Original Post) C0RI0LANUS Nov 28 OP
No they did not kansasobama Nov 28 #1
I hope they enjoy trump because anyone who voted for the sociopath deserves him. JohnSJ Nov 28 #2
I'm just beyond pissed John JustAnotherGen Nov 28 #9
Same here JAG JohnSJ Nov 29 #14
"Breaking Points" with Chrystal Ball womanofthehills Nov 30 #17
Only someone who cannot count or who knows nothing about politics would think Gaza cost Dems the election. LonePirate Nov 28 #3
Sounds like Gaza was a part of the problem womanofthehills Nov 30 #18
I strongly disagree. An overseas conflict not involving Americans did not outweigh the threat of Trump to any big degree LonePirate Nov 30 #21
They made things worse blue cat Dec 4 #28
They stayed home atreides1 Dec 4 #29
And now what? Sundance1220 Dec 5 #48
Self deleting! LearnedHand Nov 28 #4
Anyone who believed Trump's promise to bring "real peace" to the Middle Rast Raven123 Nov 28 #5
BS. Biden was and continues to do everything in his power. Biophilic Nov 28 #6
Not a magic wand - just stop supplying the weapons womanofthehills Nov 30 #19
100% agree Womanofthehills Avalon Sparks Nov 30 #20
Those people who spurned the Democrats over Gaza? PAMod Nov 28 #7
Again with blaming Black Americans JustAnotherGen Nov 28 #8
Thirteen paragraphs of uninformed drivel by a non-Democrat in favor of a single state solution. lapucelle Nov 28 #10
And republicans had all the answers on Gaza? So all those Scrivener7 Nov 28 #11
What a crock of shyte LoisB Nov 28 #12
Thanks for posting. Truth. AloeVera Nov 28 #13
If Harris declared she would stop US sales of offensive weapons to Israel... Martin Eden Nov 29 #15
An assertion of stupidity. lees1975 Nov 29 #16
I know several peers Avalon Sparks Nov 30 #22
You should thank them for showing you how stupid they are. Wiz Imp Dec 4 #33
I like them very much Avalon Sparks Dec 4 #37
I wouldn't call voting for Trump a different political belief. Particularly when it is justified by a ridiculous Wiz Imp Dec 4 #41
You do you Avalon Sparks Dec 4 #42
Gaza has already been wiped off the map Avalon Sparks Dec 4 #38
That's an excellent analysis. Uncle Joe Dec 1 #23
Well, not exactly. lees1975 Dec 4 #24
1. Kamala had an abbreviated period of time to make any distinctions between herself and President Biden. Uncle Joe Dec 4 #25
We have a treaty and an alliance with Israel, and stopping the weapons supply would have required the consent lees1975 Dec 4 #31
We were even breaking U.S. Law as there was overwhelming evidence of our weapons being used for war crimes. Uncle Joe Dec 4 #35
You're welcome, Uncle Joe. C0RI0LANUS Dec 4 #40
If there are 100 of these articles Macrophylla Dec 4 #26
The slaughter in Gaza will continue under Trump, but corporate media won't be ginning up as much outrage, sop Dec 4 #27
Bullshit Basso8vb Dec 4 #30
The supporters of Gaza who voted for trump gave Bibi everything that he wanted LetMyPeopleVote Dec 4 #32
This MustLoveBeagles Dec 4 #45
Beinart needs to fuck right off 🙄 Blue_Tires Dec 4 #34
Meanwhile, Republicans actively supported Israel's actions in Gaza. Did that "bring down their Party"? Midnight Writer Dec 4 #36
0ff-fuck, New York Times. (nt) Paladin Dec 4 #39
I actually agree with Medhi Hassan on something LetMyPeopleVote Dec 4 #43
Wow. Medhi Hassan was correct on every point. oasis Dec 5 #46
The idiots who helped to elect trump because of Gaza will regret their actions LetMyPeopleVote Dec 5 #47
Thank you, LetMyPeopleVote. This is why we have a thread like this to civilly agree or disagree. C0RI0LANUS Dec 4 #44

kansasobama

(1,551 posts)
1. No they did not
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 07:37 PM
Nov 28

Fact remains Hamas attacked Israel. I understand Netanyahu is a war criminal. Hamas are no angels though. But how can I ever sympathize with a group in US that was willing to end democracy here and vote for Trump. That too when Trump is going to treat them like shit.

JohnSJ

(96,812 posts)
2. I hope they enjoy trump because anyone who voted for the sociopath deserves him.
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 07:37 PM
Nov 28

Oh by the way, f**k The NY Times also.

womanofthehills

(9,326 posts)
17. "Breaking Points" with Chrystal Ball
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 05:48 PM
Nov 30

Had a reporter interviewing black women who did not vote for Biden. Most all the women interviewed listed the genocide in Gaza as one of their reasons.

The college kids have been protesting every weeekend for a yr - many said they will not be voting.

Maybe many of you people haven’t been on Twitter & YouTube seeing the images of lots of dead children every day for a year. Let alone the multi thousands of Gazan kids with no arms and legs. US has to really step it up and provide help for these thousands of limbless kids.

LonePirate

(13,918 posts)
3. Only someone who cannot count or who knows nothing about politics would think Gaza cost Dems the election.
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 07:39 PM
Nov 28

This guy has no idea what he is talking about.

womanofthehills

(9,326 posts)
18. Sounds like Gaza was a part of the problem
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 05:51 PM
Nov 30

You think watching a genocide daily on our phones didn’t make lots of Dems stay home. It did - fewer Dems voted in this election than last presidential election.

LonePirate

(13,918 posts)
21. I strongly disagree. An overseas conflict not involving Americans did not outweigh the threat of Trump to any big degree
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 06:50 PM
Nov 30

I know people are pissed off by the Gaza mess but Dems in large numbers did not sit home because of it given the looming threat of another Trump admin who would undoubtedly make the situation in Gaza worse. Why would people cut off their nose to spite their face here?

Did some petulant soft Dems not vote or vote for Trump because of Gaza? Sure, but not in any measurable way to cost Harris or any of the losing Senate Dems their races. It is a myth prompted by pride of the single issue Gaza voters who cannot confront their insignificant numbers which is leading people to think the Gaza mess is why Trump won.

Sundance1220

(177 posts)
48. And now what?
Thu Dec 5, 2024, 01:55 PM
Dec 5

What did their protest vote or not voting get them? Will depraved donnie help the Gazans?

Raven123

(6,154 posts)
5. Anyone who believed Trump's promise to bring "real peace" to the Middle Rast
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 07:48 PM
Nov 28

Is living in a fantasy world and probably believed all the other lies he spewed. Some voters may have have rejected Harris over the Gaza issue, but if they think they got a better deal, they may be in for a shock.

Biophilic

(4,986 posts)
6. BS. Biden was and continues to do everything in his power.
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 07:55 PM
Nov 28

The fact that idiots think he has a magic wand is beyond stupid. The fact that others keep pushing this story is as close to fake propaganda as it comes. Those that think trump will help the people of Gaza are going to be so confused. They deserve more than confusion. The situation is pretty clear. Unfortunately.

womanofthehills

(9,326 posts)
19. Not a magic wand - just stop supplying the weapons
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 06:04 PM
Nov 30

American drs keep returning from Gaza saying how Israel won’t stop bombing hospitals - killing drs, patients and newborns. American pediatric surgeon who just returned from Gaza said thru tears -little kids with no shoes have cuts on their feet - walking in sewage water - massive infections - no antibiotic - everyday she had to amputate little kids feet as they had no antibiotics. Many women I know can barely handle this info - Some of you can - I can’t.

Avalon Sparks

(2,621 posts)
20. 100% agree Womanofthehills
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 06:49 PM
Nov 30

I know I haven’t been able to handle the info. Watching what Israel has done has changed me forever.

JustAnotherGen

(33,818 posts)
8. Again with blaming Black Americans
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 07:59 PM
Nov 28


92% of Black Women
78% of Black Men

Voted. For. Harris.


Can the NY Times please do an article about Maggot's obesity, colostomy bag, awful make, comb over, and general poor grooming?

Had Harris shown disgusting hygiene and lack of health they would have harped on it 24/7.

Can they hammer the white and Latina women that voted for that disgusting thing?

The white men teaching their sons "my choice, your body"?

The Muslims who voted for Jill Stein that are now worried?

Can the media please leave us the fuck alone? Seriously - we've given and given to America and another ass swipe journalist picks on black people for not not voting in large enough numbers.

This man needs to go shove this idea of a new Israel/Gaza policy down the throats of Trump voters.

He can visit a few diners to share his concept with those disgusting pieces of shit. Blame it on them!

lapucelle

(19,575 posts)
10. Thirteen paragraphs of uninformed drivel by a non-Democrat in favor of a single state solution.
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 08:08 PM
Nov 28

Scrivener7

(53,189 posts)
11. And republicans had all the answers on Gaza? So all those
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 09:20 PM
Nov 28

problems are over now? Well, that's great news.

What a crock.

AloeVera

(2,010 posts)
13. Thanks for posting. Truth.
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 10:44 PM
Nov 28

Deaf ears, as we see.

Not much can be done about that. Lord knows I've tried.

Wish you luck. Keep fighting!

I'm outta here.

Martin Eden

(13,562 posts)
15. If Harris declared she would stop US sales of offensive weapons to Israel...
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:20 AM
Nov 29

How would THAT have impacted the election?

Her campaign could have lost support from Jewish voters and donors.

The highly influential RW media landscape would have gone into overdrive with narratives that Harris was abandoning a close American ally, was antisemitic, and supporting terrorists.

The mainstream media would have run with those stories, and she'd be put on the defensive answering those questions.

Democratic strategists who advised the Harris campaign no doubt weighed the consequences on this issue, and determined that breaking with Biden on these arms sales would hurt more than help her chances in the election.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It was a political calculation in what they knew would be a very tight race.

My personal views:

When civilian casualties in Gaza escalated past 100, 200, 300 times the death toll of Oct 7 -- and Netanyahu ignored all pleas from his greatest enabler, the USA -- the correct and moral course of action was to withold the offensive weapons of mass slaughter that were turning Gaza into rubble.

However, Biden's greatest responsibility was to save American democracy. He did that in 2020, but failed in 2024.

We will never know how things might have turned out if Joe had witheld bombs from Israel, or if he had decided not to run for a 2nd term. I think the latter was the bigger factor.

Of one thing I am certain:
Gaza was going to Hurt the Harris campaign either way.

Could it made the crucial difference?

Perhaps, if Gaza was the main reason for the low turnout on Nov 5, but we will never know.

lees1975

(6,101 posts)
16. An assertion of stupidity.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 10:38 AM
Nov 29

We're opposed to what Israel is doing in Gaza, so in a vengeful act of political ignorance and stupidity, we are going to deliberately help elect a guy who is going to help make it so much worse than it is, and who will turn on us and deport members of our community too.

Good luck with that. Seriously, it almost seems like American Arabs want Gaza destroyed.

Avalon Sparks

(2,621 posts)
22. I know several peers
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 06:54 PM
Nov 30

That could not in good moral conscience vote for anyone from an administration that continued to approve funds for a genocide.

They told me this themselves.

Wiz Imp

(2,435 posts)
33. You should thank them for showing you how stupid they are.
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 02:18 PM
Dec 4

They could not in good moral conscience vote for anyone from an administration that continued to approve funds for a genocide. So instead, they vote for the guy who is in favor if totally wiping Gaza off the map. If I had any acquaintances that stupid, they would not be my acquaintance any more.

Avalon Sparks

(2,621 posts)
37. I like them very much
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 04:06 PM
Dec 4

And would never cut anyone off based on their political beliefs. That would be STUPID.

Wiz Imp

(2,435 posts)
41. I wouldn't call voting for Trump a different political belief. Particularly when it is justified by a ridiculous
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 06:12 PM
Dec 4

lack of logic (Not voting for someone because you disagree with a policy and then voting instead for the guy who is in favor of killing ALL of the people in Gaza you claim to care about). It's not A Difference In Political Opinion; it's A Difference In Morality. Feel free to continue to be friends with people who support pure evil. For me, that's a bridge too far. Someone who supports evil is not someone I can support in any way.

Uncle Joe

(60,265 posts)
23. That's an excellent analysis.
Sun Dec 1, 2024, 09:17 AM
Dec 1

One of President Biden greatest perceived strengths, was his empathy tied to his own personal family tragedy but he couldn't seem to find any for the long suffering disenfranchised Palestinian people, and that ultimately undercut his moral foundation as Netanyahu waged a relentless slaughter against over 2 million civilians in an area roughly the size of Philadelphia.

It didn't start out that way because of the terrorist attack on October 7th, the world's sympathy was on the side of Israel, but the callous language and actions from Israeli leadership against the entire civilian Palestinian population in Gaza changed the focus from 1200+ innocent Israelis being massacred by a group of armed terrorists to the mass slaughter and deliberate starvation of 2 million + people with at least a minimum now of 44000 (it's probably in excess of 100,000 counting those buried under the rubble) dead mostly women and children.

It's hard to project empathy if ethnic cleansing, and genocide doesn't stir your passion.

Thanks for the thread C0RI0LANUS

lees1975

(6,101 posts)
24. Well, not exactly.
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 01:05 PM
Dec 4

Biden wasn't running for President, Kamala Harris, who had articulated a much different perspective on Gaza, was the candidate. And no, I won't buy any argument that insists she could have stopped what was happening, because that's just not the case. There's a lot of political naivete and outright ignorance in a statement like that.

The effectiveness of this approach to changing things in Gaza is quite visible. It has had zero effect on American arms policy toward Israel. We've put some pressure on them to open up the humanitarian aid corridors, and are involved in negotiations with a cease fire and release of hostages as the goal. Nothing has changed at all, not one bit, as a result of the pressure applied by pro-Palestinians in the American election. It doesn't appear this protest even made a difference in the election results. It was a wasted effort that has only served to further isolate the Palestinian-American community from the rest of the country.

The position of the United States will change considerably on January 20. The continued existence of Gaza is in doubt. The intention of the attack from Israel was to eliminate all remaining pockets of Hamas and it is obvious that the collateral damage to the civilian infrastructure was not a humanitarian consideration, and that the bombing and destruction will not stop until that goal is achieved. And if you think that the Republicans and the administration the support of Palestinian-Americans helped elect will spend a dime on recovery or rebuilding Gaza, you are sadly mistaken. Netanyahu's intentions are to de-populate Gaza and the West Bank, and the inability of the province to support the population with basic necessities will make most of them refugees headed somewhere else. And that policy will be 100% supported by the political party and President your votes helped put in power.

And I'm one who believes the Palestinian population has been unfairly treated, isolated and dispossessed of land that rightfully belongs to them in the whole reorganization of the territory since the British took over after World War 1. This could have been done so much better.

Uncle Joe

(60,265 posts)
25. 1. Kamala had an abbreviated period of time to make any distinctions between herself and President Biden.
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 01:36 PM
Dec 4

It boiled down to a combination run for office and she even stated "nothing different," that may have helped her with Biden loyalists but not the people dissatisfied with his policy in regards to Israel and Gaza. Kamala even ran two different ads one focused on Israel in Pennsylvania and the other more from a Palestinian Gaza point of view in Michigan.

2. Gaza wasn't getting enough food and supplies even before October 7th at about 300 trucks a day. It truly was the world's largest open air prison. Despite pleas or encouragement from President Biden Israel didn't do squat in altering those dynamics, and this only made him look weak, it was no wonder that *rump ran on the "strong man" crap and the corporate media love using that definition for a dictator or a more warm and fuzzy authoritarian. Of course Netanyahu always wanted *rump back in power and anything that he could do to thumb his nose at Biden, he did.

3. Even if the U.S. couldn't stop Israel from committing ethnic cleansing and genocide (the entire world recognized what was happening, and Israeli "leadership" wasn't even coy about it) against the Palestinians, we could've stopped supplying them with the weapons to do so. This not only made President Biden look weak but undercut his moral authority as well and together that was his Achilles heel.



lees1975

(6,101 posts)
31. We have a treaty and an alliance with Israel, and stopping the weapons supply would have required the consent
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 01:56 PM
Dec 4

of the Senate to alter the treaty.

And ultimately, did the voter protest in the election make a real difference in the outcome of the election. Not one bit.

What would have made a difference would have been electing Harris, and keeping a Democratic controlled Senate, which would have given her some ability to alter the treaty and put real pressure on Netanyahu. He knew Biden couldn't do that.

But there's also some hypocrisy here, too. No one else has stopped sending weapons to Israel while they are invading Gaza. They are also being supplied by other nations, including the British. No embargo or alteration of economic ties has occurred. You'd think the fabulously wealthy Arabic gulf states would provide financial assistance and humanitarian aid to Gaza, wouldn't you? But Gaza is a far cry from the glittering cities in Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia.

Uncle Joe

(60,265 posts)
35. We were even breaking U.S. Law as there was overwhelming evidence of our weapons being used for war crimes.
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 02:40 PM
Dec 4

There wasn't even an attempt made to stop selling weapons and arms to Israel. except 2000LB bombs because they were being indiscriminately used to bomb entire neighborhoods.

Aside from this we're supposed to be a if not the major world leader.

Since 7 October 2023, several countries such as Italy, Japan, Spain, Canada, the Netherlands and Belgium have ceased the sale of weapons to Israel.[1][2] Key U.S. allies such as Britain and France are debating it.[3] However the United States and Germany as the major suppliers of Israel's arms imports keep supplying lethal weapons in spite of growing criticism of the mounting civilian casualties.[1][2]

Campaign groups and some Western politicians insist that arms sales to Israel must stop because civilian lives have been lost during the Israel–Hamas war, due to alleged Israeli atrocities and the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip.[4]

(snip)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_embargoes_on_Israel_since_2023#:~:text=Since%207%20October%202023%2C%20several,and%20France%20are%20debating%20it.

MBS overruling his own Saudi trust fund advisors and letting *rump's shadow diplomat/son in law, long time family friend to Netanyahu, and unqualified Jared (Gaza has major good investment potential) Kushner play with well over 2 billion dollars tells me that they're just waiting for the ethnic cleansing/genocide to be over so that Jared can finally start making them a return on their investment.

If people don't vote because they're not inspired or hearing the message, it's the candidate (s) responsibility to answer the voters or peoples call, not the other way around. One thing is for certain, lumping in and condemning the overwhelming number of sincere protesters (many of them Jewish) against ethnic cleansing and genocide as being anti-Semitic doesn't inspire or motivate anyone to vote.

C0RI0LANUS

(1,862 posts)
40. You're welcome, Uncle Joe.
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 06:03 PM
Dec 4

This thread was initiated to politely analyze the 2024 election result without disparaging, insulting, or offending anyone on DU which it did for the most part.



You wonder if 1968 Hubert Humphrey Democrats angrily denounced the anti-war contingent of their party as "VC lovers" and "pinkos" after they lost? Being anti-war doesn't make one a "Commie" or "Hamas lover." I am neither.

BTW: I previously posted the parallels between the 1968 and 2024 elections; don't know if you saw it. That both conventions took place in Chicago with anti-war demonstrations outside added to the analog.

There are 2,097,642 Arab-Americans in the US per Wikipedia. I think the number of anti-war Americans far surpasses that.



Anti-war Democrats, regardless of their ethnicity or faith were sidelined, and thus did not turn out to support Kamala Harris in 2024, just like Hubert Humphrey in 1968.

Links:

https://www.history.com/news/anti-war-movements-throughout-american-history

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/11/13/michigan-dearborn-trump-harris-arab-gaza-israel-vote/

https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/11/29/how-kamala-harris-thumbed-her-nose-at-arab-american-and-muslim-voters/

Macrophylla

(150 posts)
26. If there are 100 of these articles
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 01:44 PM
Dec 4

There will be 100 reasons why.
It can't be all of them, it could be none of them.

The last people who know anything about the why will be the media.
It's all just click bait

sop

(11,577 posts)
27. The slaughter in Gaza will continue under Trump, but corporate media won't be ginning up as much outrage,
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 01:44 PM
Dec 4

LetMyPeopleVote

(155,516 posts)
32. The supporters of Gaza who voted for trump gave Bibi everything that he wanted
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 01:59 PM
Dec 4

With trump back in power, Bibi will be free to do what he wants in Gaza



https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/podcasts/2024-11-06/ty-article-podcast/netanyahu-gambled-on-a-trump-presidency-will-it-pay-off/00000193-01b9-dc77-adb3-9bbbf9ee0000

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's "gamble" on extending the war in Gaza in anticipation of Donald Trump winning the U.S. election seems to have paid off, according to Haaretz senior military analyst Amos Harel.

In conversation with Haaretz Podcast host Allison Kaplan Sommer, Harel said that Netanyahu "kept promising total victory, what he actually had was sort of a Forever War. It was not forever, but he was waiting for November, and for January 20 and for his friend Trump to be back in the White House."

What is the Israeli premier hoping to get out of his bet? Harel believes that in renewing the Bibi-Trump bromance, Netanyahu believes he can win U.S. support for measures that will stop his criminal trial - Trump after all, will certainly sympathize - and move ahead with the judicial coup that will damage Israeli democracy.

In the security and military arena, the Israeli leader aspires to achieve "more aggressive goals in the region, whether it's striking Iran or persuading the Americans to strike Iran, or pushing forward against the Palestinians and against Hezbollah and Lebanon."

Blue_Tires

(56,730 posts)
34. Beinart needs to fuck right off 🙄
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 02:35 PM
Dec 4

God deliver me from all these shitty brain-dead hot takes...

Midnight Writer

(23,130 posts)
36. Meanwhile, Republicans actively supported Israel's actions in Gaza. Did that "bring down their Party"?
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 03:00 PM
Dec 4

In fact, many Republicans, including their messiah, want harsher measures against Gaza. Did that hurt them? Actually, it seems to have benefitted them among Michigan Muslim voters.

LetMyPeopleVote

(155,516 posts)
43. I actually agree with Medhi Hassan on something
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 07:57 PM
Dec 4

Muslims who voted for trump or stayed home just condemned Gaza


C0RI0LANUS

(1,862 posts)
44. Thank you, LetMyPeopleVote. This is why we have a thread like this to civilly agree or disagree.
Wed Dec 4, 2024, 10:22 PM
Dec 4
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