Older Men's Connections Often Wither When They're on Their Own

[erronis]

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/older-men-connections-isolation-loneliness-navigating-aging/


This is one of the most important articles I've read about people like me - older men (77) and without good social contacts.

I'm putting this DU Lounge since I can't figure out DU's weird discussion menus. AFAIK there is nothing related to "aging". I would strongly suggest that the fine folks (Earl and Skinner and ??) that keep this wonderful site alive move to a tag-based approach rather than requiring every post to identify some arbitrary category. I've implemented many tag-based comment systems that give freedom and control to the posters and administrators. END OF RANT.

Just a short segment from this article. I bet most of us DU readers would identify with these people.

Add in the decline of civic institutions where men used to congregate — think of the Elks or the Shriners — and older men’s reduced ability to participate in athletic activities, and the result is a lack of stimulation and the loss of a sense of belonging.

Depression can ensue, fueling excessive alcohol use, accidents, or, in the most extreme cases, suicide. Of all age groups in the United States, men over age 75 have the highest suicide rate, by far.

For this column, I spoke at length to several older men who live alone. All but two (who’d been divorced) were widowed. Their experiences don’t represent all men who live alone. But still, they’re revealing.

The first person I called was Art Koff, 88, of Chicago, a longtime marketing executive I’d known for several years. When I reached out in January, I learned that Koff’s wife, Norma, had died the year before, leaving him hobbled by grief. Uninterested in eating and beset by unremitting loneliness, Koff lost 45 pounds.

“I’ve had a long and wonderful life, and I have lots of family and lots of friends who are terrific,” Koff told me. But now, he said, “nothing is of interest to me any longer.”

“I’m not happy living this life,” he said.

Nine days later, I learned that Koff had died. His nephew, Alexander Koff, said he had passed out and was gone within a day. The death certificate cited “end stage protein calorie malnutrition” as the cause.

The transition from being coupled to being single can be profoundly disorienting for older men. Lodovico Balducci, 80, was married to his wife, Claudia, for 52 years before she died in October 2023. Balducci, a renowned physician known as the “patriarch of geriatric oncology,” wrote about his emotional reaction in the Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, likening Claudia’s death to an “amputation.”

“I find myself talking to her all the time, most of the time in my head,” Balducci told me in a phone conversation. When I asked him whom he confides in, he admitted, “Maybe I don’t have any close friends.”

[Elessar Zappa]

1. As a former health care worker,

I noticed that older men who lost their spouse tended to do a lot worse than women who lost theirs. The men just seemed lost without their wife.

[Lulu KC]

2. There is a Seniors group

I think in support? It's on the list of forums.

[erronis]

30. Thanks. I find the DU forum classifications not very friendly.

There are so many conversations that can belong in various groups at the same time. This type of organization is much better handled by allowing us to assign tags (labels, attributes, etc.) to a post. I'm hoping the DU administrators will at least look at supporting that type of cross linking.

[MLF1981]

3. I'm in my 40s and I feel exactly like this.

I never married, never had kids, haven't dated in years, just lost my job, and don't have any local friends or even acquaintances. I just don't see the point in getting up every morning. Why would I want to subject myself to three or four more decades of an utterly pointless existence?

[erronis]

4. I've had more than one period in my life like this - feeling useless and without purpose.

I guess I should say that I'm thankful that I've kept on going - finding new relations and hopefully adding some pleasure to others lives.

If you are interested in being active and part of a community - and meeting people who you like - I suggest just volunteering at something that seems worthwhile to you. Since I'm an old fart, trying to be active with other in my cohort makes sense.

Also, try groups (meetup.com) that have common interests. I'm a data science nerd so I try these. Or hiking groups if you're into the outdoors.

Please let me know (DM or via these posts) how you are doing. The best thing for me is to interact with others just like you!

[MLF1981]

15. Not trying to be a downer here, but I'm about ready to give up.

I was homeless once in my 20s, after Bush accidentally the whole economy in 2008, (by the way, thank you, you chimp-resembling asshole), and I never did really recover. I have an MBA and a Masters in HR management, and used to work in HR for a very large, very well-known corporation, and had to take what I could, which ended up being back of the house restaurant work, which I had experience in all through my undergrad career. As time went by, I became damaged goods as far as working in HR ever again, why hire a guy who has been out of the field for years when there's always a fresh crop of bright-eyed, bushy tailed 25 year olds who are willing to work for less and are more current in the discipline?

As I got older I couldn't keep up with the pace of a professional kitchen. So I got into construction, a lot of pipeline stuff in the Marcellus Shale area, which was Western PA, Eastern OH, and northern WV, and did pretty well with that. But you only need to build a pipeline once, and I tried to get similar work in Texas and Wyoming, but it just didn't happen. So I got into landscaping and residential construction, which is what I've been doing for the past few years, but just got canned because at this point I'm too damn old to keep up with the kids they hire.

I've got gout, extremely high blood pressure, and knee and back problems, and I just can't do it any more. I don't have any health insurance, and I live in TN, where the Republicans who run this state have the attitude of "you're a 'healthy' childless adult'? Fuck you Jack, you're on your own." Like I said earlier, what's the fucking point of keeping up the struggle? Being homeless when you're young is doable, but utterly undignified. Trying to go through the same thing again twenty years on just doesn't seem like it's worth it to me.

[jfz9580m]

22. I was very sorry to read this

I asked you a question earlier this morning about coffee and clicked on your profile out of curiosity.

You seem like a sweet, grounded and cool person from your posts and I am very sorry to hear that you are facing prospective homelessness again.

I also genuinely respect the cheerfulness with which you are dealing with all this and wish you well.

DU is a community for all that we are all anonymous. We all deal with various issues but hang on here.

Please do keep us posted about your job search and other stuff. I really hope things get better for you.

I will be keeping an eye out for your posts and hope things get better for you .

Also there is nothing pointless about your existence. I think the world would be poorer without you. Can’t really say the same about the creeps/turds we bash here daily. I wouldn’t wish them or anyone dead, but the world is certainly the worse for them.

[Dear_Prudence]

27. Disability?

My sister-in-law was forced to retire after decades as a grocery clerk due to a permanent shoulder injury. She isn't yet 65. When she applied for Social Security, the officer suggested to her that she apply for disability. She got it and it is really helping with her imposed retirement. If it won't work for you, don't take the time to explain; I have had my own battles and I well understand that Social Security is like a cruel lottery for most of us. You have really put in your time in the workforce and I hope you are able to get some kind of a break. It is so discouraging that you are having to face these difficulties.

[JoseBalow]

5. Please consider adopting a shelter dog

[MLF1981]

8. I would if I could...

I love dogs, always have, but I'm not allowed to have pets per my lease terms. That, and if I don't find a new job soon, I'm going to end up homeless, and I wouldn't feel right putting a doggo in that situation.

[JoseBalow]

10. Service animals are exempt from restrictions

Like emotional support animals, for example. Something to consider.

Also, there are organizations that can help subsidize senior pet owners, service dogs, or foster pets.

I hope things get better.

[MLF1981]

11. I appreciate the info.

Thanks for passing it along.

[Farmer-Rick]

51. I live in rural TN by myself

On a farm. My kids are grown and my spouse died about 5 years ago.

I found signing up for a short exercise class at the senior center helped. They offer help with food, transportation and connections in the local area community. Most every county in TN has a Senior Center that receives tax dollars.

Getting out at least once a week to socialize and meet people was nice. It's very low pressure and they will help you with whatever you ask for.

[erronis]

54. And so many of us at the senior centers have experienced much of the same problems

it is very healing to be able to discuss with people that understand. Sometimes have some really good suggestions. But just the human-to-human communication is what our souls need.

[MLF1981]

61. Just out of curiosity, what part of TN are you in?

I live in East TN, not too far from Knoxville, but far enough that it's nice and quiet here. The one saving grace I guess...

[electric_blue68]

21. Perhaps there's a pet shelter near enough to you to volunteer at? Hope u find a job soon!...

As far as high blood pressure goes - these food all help to lower it bc of magnesium, calcium, potassium, fiber and probably other factors.

Low/no fat yogurt (watch out for sugar)
Bananas, Blueberries, Romaine Lettuce, Spinach, Beets or Beet Juice W/O sugar, Sweet potatoes, Whole grains (whole wheat, brown rice, the very tasty millet [yes, "bird seed" I think it tastes like a cross between rice and corn: cooks in?20-25 mins), other berries, avocado, salmon.

Any kind of inexpensive hobby you could get into? Maybe something you though about pursuing but didn't earlier on?

[MLF1981]

39. When I say very high blood pressure, I mean exactly that...

I check it on the machines that you find at Walmart whenever I'm there. It's been running at about 190 / 120 for the last year or so. I should probably be on medication, probably more than one, but I couldn't afford a doctor's visit even when I was still working, let alone a daily prescription med or two or three.

And as far as inexpensive hobbies, I used to absolutely love shooting pool, but my back has gotten so bad that I have real trouble even bending down to the table to shoot. Actually, it's not the bending down part, more the standing back up part that hurts like a motherfucker.

[erronis]

56. That's pretty high - it'd be great if you can get it tested somewhere else.

I know the Red Cross used to do screening. I don't know your particular situation but if you're on Medicare (65+) you get free yearly screens. And Medicaid in most decent states should have some options.

I love pool (8 and 9-ball). I haven't played for several decades but my local senior center has a couple of good tables and there are usually 4-8 people available to play. I know about the back pain but mine is intermittent and can be helped with some acetaminophen (tylenol). It's harder to straighten back up than bend over.....

[electric_blue68]

60. Oh, ouch. Rarely tried* billards, or pool. All i can say is try more of the foods, and herbs I looked up for you....

Maybe you'll start to notice a difference.


*I liked it, but wasn't very good at it but I think I might be better at it now.

[OldBaldy1701E]

31. If you think it is all pointless now...

Wait until you hit retirement age and realize that you only have one thing to retire from.

[MLF1981]

41. If I hit reitrement age, it will be a miracle.

Besides, the way my life has shaped up over the years, if I were to make it that long, I can assure you that retirement won't be in the cards. I'll have to work until the day I die.

[OldBaldy1701E]

42. I can't really work anymore.

And, the career I spend my whole life trying to succeed in was a complete waste of time.

I feel ya. Some people really have no idea how lucky they were/are. And, thanks to this deliberate denial, they think we can just snap our fingers and make it all better.

[MLF1981]

43. Yep.

You gotta love the "born with a silver spoon in their mouth" crowd telling everyone else to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps".

"And, the career I spend my whole life trying to succeed in was a complete waste of time."

You know, I used to be really sad about not being able to use my education to keep working in HR, but I got a lot more satisfaction out of the blue-collar work that I've done over the years than I ever did sitting in an office and pushing papers around. I think that's what's really bumming me out the most, my body is breaking down and I know I'm not going to be able to do that kind of stuff any more. Oh well, c'est la vie I guess.

[Skittles]

47. did you feel this way prior to losing your job?

try not to tie your self worth into how many people are in your life....you always have value - find some hobbies you really enjoy, or do some volunteer work

the economy is still good thanks to Democrats so get cracking on that job search

keep checking in with us at DU, we care

[ZDU]

6. My First Post

Thank you. I needed to read this. This is my very first post on DU. I've observed this site for years, officially joined this past year, and needed to read this post. Thank you.

[MLF1981]

7. Fellow long time lurker here...

Over 20 years in my case. Welcome!

[ZDU]

52. Thank you, thank you

[erronis]

9. Thank you, ZDU!

It's hard to post but once you open up a bit it becomes easier.

Please let me know how I/we can help. I'm in a very transitional place in my life and way too old to want to deal with it. But I think we can all help one another by sharing a bit and offering a bit.

As this article points out, women usually have a better network of friends as they age. I've lost most of my best friends and need to find some new ones. Welcome!

[ZDU]

53. Thank you, much appreciated

Thank you, erronis. Your offer is noted and appreciated.

[jfz9580m]

24. Hi ZDU

Good to have you on board. DU is pretty cool.

[ZDU]

55. Thank you, jfz9580m

It's good to be on board. Thanks, again!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

25. Welcome to DU

[ZDU]

57. Thank you, LetMyPeopleVote

Thank you, it's appreciated!

[Skittles]

48. welcome to DU, ZDU

[ZDU]

58. Thank you, Skittles

That waving emoji makes me smile. THX!

[Upthevibe]

50. ZDU...........

Welcome to the posting world of DU.

[ZDU]

59. Thank you, Upthevibe!

It's great to be here.

[Hassler]

12. I'm 70. My wife of 42 years is dying from brain cancer

I think I have support -- aikido classes twice a week for the past 30 years, a weekly meditation group, a senior bike group -- but I am dreading her passing, of finding myself in this situation. I guess my mentor is our old neighbor, a retired MD, a widower. He was a ball of energy-- French club, church choir, etc who lived to 90.

[erronis]

13. I can't advise you - it sounds like you have some good contacts. But being involved

in some way is better than sitting at home and thinking about the past and the now very different future. If possible, embrace the possible new. I'm right there with you - scared and hopeful.

[Hassler]

18. Thanks. Good vibrations to you too.

[MLF1981]

40. My condolences on your wife's illness.

I can't imagine what that must be like for you. Really puts my own troubles into perspective. I wish you and your wife the best.

[Skittles]

49. you have us here on DU too

someone is always here on DU, we re here for you

[cyclonefence]

14. My husband and I are 77

and because I have a lot of physical problems, I'll probably die first. Here's how we have prepared: first of all, I gave him permission to date. Which is related to the next step: join card-playing groups. Lots of benefits--give you a reason to get up and out of the house on a regular basis, keep you in touch with people your own age (nobody under the age of 60 plays bridge) and under (he's also in a poker group where younger men play, too), and help you meet eligible widows. Companionship is crucial, and lots of friends--unless I guess they get you to go places and do things with them--are not the same as a spouse or partner.

[erronis]

16. Those are some good ideas. I have joined a nearby senior center that has these types of activities.

Cards, bridge (contract and duplicate!), scrabble, many conversational groups.

Free of charge and staff/volunteers who really understand our needs!

Best of all, we can give back to the community when we're able.

[MLF1981]

17. nobody under the age of 60 plays bridge

Hey now! I'm under 60 and I know how to play Contract Bridge! Euchre too, but that's an even more niche thing. Hell, in high school, all my friends and myself used to do was play cards. Well, and smoke weed and chase girls too I guess.

[cyclonefence]

26. Good for you!

Now all you need to do to prepare for old age is learn to play duplicate bridge! That's where all the hot widows are.

[erronis]

32. Those "hot widows playing duplicate" can be dangerous

Duplicate bridge is way too serious and cut-throat for my idea of a pleasant evening of kibbitzing and socializing. Anyone who enjoys a few hours of duplicate bridge battles is too tough for me!

[Bumbles]

46. Beware of those knitting needles wielded by some of those cut-throat duplicate bridge players!

[Intractable]

19. Socially, I'd be lost without my wife.

I'm 60 and live with my wife in a South Florida retirement community.

To my eyes, around here, the men who are single and live alone seem disconnected and lonely.

In general, the single women manage it better. They have friends and participate in social activities, but many of them will tell you how lonely they are.

[Drum]

20. Bookmarking...this is an extremely relevant topic and post. Thank you erronis!

[jfz9580m]

23. Neat thread

Thanks for posting this. My impression is that men tend to feel lonelier than women (as another poster pointed out upthread). My mom left us before my dad. I am an only child and fond of books/nature - I rarely feel lonely (unless you count the Oscar Wilde thing of a bore being someone who strips you of pleasant solitude without providing companionship) even as a much maligned childless catlady .

But I worry about my dad..I know he misses my mom. I try to do what I can..

[NNadir]

28. If I have one truly selfish wish, it would be to die before my wife does.

I have a good chance of dying first; she's younger than I am, and I think, healthier.

I have, of course, my two sons, but I wouldn't want to live in a world without my wife.

I actually felt this disconnection, despite having many friends, before I met my wife, and almost didn't have a sense of the point of living. It seems weird now, because life was so wonderful ever after, once we became lovers.

[erronis]

33. I also think your strong opinions here at DU are a good therapy.

It's helpful to have a cause to champion and your scientific background give you some great grounding. Love your postings on nuclear energy and the climate change threats. (I was lately involved with GE Nuclear in San Jose - decommissioning....)

[NNadir]

36. Thank you for your kind words. N/t.

[OAITW r.2.0]

29. Back in 2021, I broke up with my GF whom I had been living with for 10 years.

Ironically, it was my ex-wife's death that forced me to decide whether to move back to Maine to deal with the home I owned with the Ex and to try to reconnect with my two kids. My GF had her own children with grandkids and she was not interested in moving up to Maine with me. My kids stop in a couple of times a month. The home has kept me busy making repairs and I got a dog 2 years ago. My closest sibling is 2-1/2 hours away, so I don't see much of them. My town is pretty small and has no bars or restaurants to meet people. Most of the people I knew in 80's thru 2010 have either moved or passed on. I'm OK with the monastic lifestyle, but I do have bouts of loneliness at times...

[erronis]

34. I have a couple of relatives in Brunswick and Portland.

Maybe we can find some connections...

My personal experience is that bars and restaurants aren't a good spot to meet people. Usually some group with similar interests such as outdoors, painting, reading/writing, hiking, etc.

[OldBaldy1701E]

35. I will have to read it.

Because, I am very curious if they address the opposite. The fact that some of us try to make new friends and get out, but no one wants to have anything to do with us. Or, one just cannot afford to 'hang out' like one used to. There are health issues as well.

[MissB]

37. Kick

[XanaDUer2]

38. Sad

[GenThePerservering]

44. My very good friend joined a

widow/widowerers support 'club' group after he lost his wife (who was also a very good friend). He's a man of many interests but really needed the support. He likes to give it, too. Making a difference means a lot to him.

Women are simply encouraged, and perhaps naturally, to be more social so I think we tend to be more independent and it comes more naturally for us to get out. A lot of men of my father's generation didn't do ANYTHING social unless their wives initiate it, so that left a lot of them high and dry when they lost their spouse and yes, quite lost. I notice, though, that men who have real interests (cycling, running for sports, woodworking, music, etc.) do a lot better because they can expand their social circle through shared interests.

[GenThePerservering]

45. And agree on a tagging system for this board

It's a bit 1990s and can be quite cumbersome. Perhaps during a planned update because I know it takes work to manage this and don't want to be disrespectful of the time it takes to implement things like this.

[MLF1981]

62. There are a lot of good people here.

That's all, nothing really to add... You're a good bunch of folks.

[jfz9580m]

63. You are a great addition

Please do keep us posted about your ups and downs .

I love reading your posts. Your warmth, compassion and perspicacity come through and are inspiring. Have you ever read George Orwell’s “Down and Out in London and Paris”? You might like it if you have not. It is one of my favorite books and your posts reminded me of it (right down to the work in a professional kitchen).

https://mail.gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100171h.html

I found it an important, but cheering and invigorating read which looks hardships in the eye without getting depressing or peddling the tired nonsense about “pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps”. It is also based loosely on Orwell’s own experiences. I wish it was as well known as 1984.

Anyway I truly enjoy your posts and am glad you joined. This is very much a community for all that we don’t know each other irl.

I wish it was easier on DU to follow a specific author’s posts later. I tend to wander off for months when I become busy. Must suggest that to the admins next reboot.

I am forcing myself to go offline because I have to work (DU can get habit forming ).

But I hope to read your posts when I come back in a month. I know you are going through a rough time and am keeping you in my thoughts .

Hopefully by then it is President Harris and not VP Harris! I would enjoy a world where I didn’t have to see dumb and dumber ever again .

[erronis]

64. It's actually pretty easy to follow a DUer's posts. Click on their name in a post (or go to Member Lookup)

and you'll be taken to their Profile page. On the right is a list of their latest posts. You can also see their Journal (if they have it set up.)

Thanks to the fine admins at DU!

[jfz9580m]

65. Thank you!

It has the limitation though that only the last 5 posts or so show up and not all posters use the journal option.

So you miss posts from the DUers you follow when you leave for longer periods. I gotta log off for a month because I am swamped ..but I hope to return to a world where the insurrectionist is history !

Great thread btw. Thanks for starting it erronis .

[erronis]

66. Yes - that is a pity (the 5 post limit.) And thanks for the refeence to Orwell's "Down and Out"

I've just started reading it.

[jfz9580m]

67. You are welcome! One of my favorites :).nt