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tornado34jh

(1,292 posts)
Sat Jul 8, 2023, 10:30 PM Jul 2023

Been trying to decide which camera to get

So I am thinking sometime down the road of getting maybe a Fujifilm X-T camera. However, I am still confused about something. On the Fujifilm X-T5 the shutter speed is 1/180,000 sec using the electronic shutter, while the XT-4 only does 1/32,000 second. I have asked on DP review and they weren't really specific. So what really is the difference between an electronic shutter of 1/32,000 second vs 1/180,000 second? Granted it isn't the only thing. The XT-4 has a faster continuous shooting of 30 fps vs just 20 fps for the XT-5. However, I am trying to decide if the faster electronic shutter speed of 1/180,000 sec on the XT-5 is worth it.

Again I am looking at other cameras, but this question has been bugging me and still really has not been answered.

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tornado34jh

(1,292 posts)
2. Well, it would mostly be fast moving stuff
Sun Jul 9, 2023, 12:18 AM
Jul 2023

I mainly do lightning photography, but I have had a couple of my friends ask me if I do sports photography, (e.g. a basketball game), and I said "No, I have not done so", and they said I should. But I have never done so, and from all the limited knowledge of it, I assume a faster shutter speed is better for that.

MichMan

(13,160 posts)
4. You could never use a shutter speed remotely close to that indoors
Sun Jul 9, 2023, 08:25 AM
Jul 2023

Your lens could never let in enough light to allow it.


I shoot motorsports and never go faster than 1/1000

Major Nikon

(36,900 posts)
6. Even then you'd be well past any practical limits
Sun Jul 9, 2023, 01:16 PM
Jul 2023

The sunny 16 rule is on a sunny day with f/16 and ISO 100 you'll have a shutter speed of 1/100. So let's say you had a very fast lens with a f/1.2 aperture or 7 stops larger. That would be a shutter speed of 1/12,800 which is well past anything you'd need for the types of photography mentioned.

Old Crank

(4,644 posts)
3. I can remember when 1/1,000 sec exposure
Sun Jul 9, 2023, 08:20 AM
Jul 2023

for a 35 mm was pretty damn fast. Until reasonably recently most sports shots were done on those cameras.
Of course photographers relied more on what they expected to happen and were ready.
Now you can shoot movies and then pick the best out of a huge number of pictures.
I think that the slower shutter is probably all you will ever use, if you use that at all.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
5. Max shutter speed is the least important thing for what you've mentioned
Sun Jul 9, 2023, 09:17 AM
Jul 2023

shooting. There's another issue as well; to use that shutter speed even in broad daylight requires very high ISO speeds which on a crop frame camera creates excessive noise. I doubt that anything above 1/5000 sec is really necessary for human sports.

You mentioned lightning. My OM cameras have a feature that makes one exposure and after that records only changes. OM calls it Live Composite. It's used for light painting and star trails. Lightning would be a natural for it. The feature has been around for awhile so I suspect other brands offer it or something similar. The possible downside to OM is the 4/3 sensor, smaller than the APS which means more noise although the OM1's sensor is okay up to 12,800 ISO. Older 4/3 sensors are only good to 3200 ISO. A good noise reduction post processing software can fix that in most cases.

As for continuous shooting speed be careful what you wish for. I find 20 fps a real pain in the ass. I spend more time editing than I do shooting. For birds in flight I use 10 fps and still have too many to edit. I suppose for shooting gymnastics or some sports it would be necessary to catch that once in a lifetime exposure like the baseball hitting the bat but I find it to be overkill and 60 fps is out of the question for me.

For what you've described my criteria, were I starting from itch (one step before scratch), I'd prioritize size and comfort in handling. Holding a long telephoto for minutes at a time can be tiring and making changes to settings needs to be almost instinctive. On the other hand a really small body like the OM5 can feel awkward with large lenses. Find something that fits *you* and your budget. I doubt that any camera on the market today would fail to satisfy 90% of us and frankly you simply cannot buy a bad camera today.

All that said I'm a hopeless OM fan boy.

tornado34jh

(1,292 posts)
7. I see what all of you are saying.
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 12:27 AM
Jul 2023

Regardless, it still will quite be a while before I can decide what I want to get. I have to save up for it. But even then, it just seems like I see things such as "Oh this camera can do continuous shooting 120 fps (e.g. Nikon Z9), or this thing has extremely fast shutter speed". It's amazing that such stuff is being pushed out even though most probably wouldn't use it.

Gato Moteado

(9,927 posts)
9. what are you currently shooting with?
Thu Jul 13, 2023, 12:29 PM
Jul 2023

the nikon Z9's 120FPS is a bit misleading because that will render 11MP jpgs, not full res RAW images...it doesn't make sense to pay for a 46MP full frame camera if you'll be shooting at the highest frame rate most of the time, getting low res JPGs. for full res RAW images the Z9 delivers 20FPS. are you a pro shooter or do you plan to become a pro? the reason i'm asking is because you mentioned that you are waiting to save up to buy the gear....the Z9 is a $5500 body and if you're shooting professionally, you'll want the S line Z lenses, i imagine, and they are not cheap....you might be looking at over $10k in gear, depending on how many lenses you need. that could be a lot of overkill for what you'll be doing. also, the Z9 is a big, heavy camera body.

if you go with nikon and your budget is a bit lower, look at the Z6II for $1700. it's a great body for shooting lightning or landscapes and with 14FPS it should be fine for shooting sports....i've played around with the camera and the AF is really fast...it seems as fast as my D850, if not faster. the only problem with full frame, if you're going to shoot sports, is you'll need longer, heavier (more expensive) lenses to give you the reach. if you're shooting basketball, and you're on the floor, a 70-200mm might be perfect (the z mount 70-200mm f/2.8 is around $2700)....you could go cheaper with the 24-200mm f/4 ($900) but you'll be giving up a full stop of light which could be critical in lowly lit stadiums...it could slow down your AF. if you're shooting baseball or football from the stands, you'll likely need more reach.

APS-C cameras, like the fuji, will give you about 50% more reach with lenses of the same focal length, because of the crop. if you're going to go with APS-C instead of full frame, i would definitely go with the fuji over nikon (and i'm primarily a nikon shooter) because the nikon APS-C mirrorless camera, the Z50, doesn't have image stabilization and the fuji AF is way better than the nikon Z50, as well.

tornado34jh

(1,292 posts)
10. Well, I currently have a old Canon XSi
Thu Jul 13, 2023, 05:58 PM
Jul 2023

It's a camera from when my mom used it. It's a discontinued camera from 2008. However, not only does it not have image stabilization, it has less ISO, I don't think it really is good for long exposure, and even with the best UHS-I cards, it can only go up to 3-3.5 fps. For comparison, the Samsung WB350F, which is the camera I used for lightning and will eventually retire and replace, had a continuous shooting of around 7 fps and an ISO of 3200. The other thing is that the Canon XSi it is not weather sealed, which is a big minus not only in cold temperatures (my parents live in Montana), but also for the hot, humid heat here in Florida. Trust me, we have been getting Heat Advisories here in Central Florida, and in Florida, it is only issued if the heat index is expected to be at least 108; where I'm from that would be an Excessive Heat Warning. I don't trust taking it out in extremely humid environments, and cold temperatures have not been my friend in regard to electronics.

So any camera I get has to be weather sealed. Also, if I am not at home and I go to other places in Lakeland, I don't try to bring too much stuff. Because I don't bring a tripod along with since I take the bus to and from my apartment, I don't usually do long exposure. When it comes to thunderstorms, because they are often moving, I don't usually stay in one place hence I move around a lot, so many times I just pick a spot and after a few minutes I move to a different spot, sort of "run and gun" photography. Now if I am at home, I have a lot more opportunities to do so.

I don't plan to get a supremely expensive camera, as I am not doing this to become a professional. I do understand that full-frame is better for astrophotography, which I would probably use in Montana, at least for as long as my parents are there. But again, I am not planning to go pro. In fact, usually when I do lightning and astrophotography, I do it alone and don't usually do it when people are around. Of course, I would not get an interchangeable lens camera just for one thing. It would be multi-purpose. But I certainly wouldn't get a mirrorless body like a Nikon Z9 or a Canon R3. Not only is that too expensive, but I think it would be too bulky to carry around or travel with.

Gato Moteado

(9,927 posts)
8. fuji cameras are great, but regarding shutter speed......
Thu Jul 13, 2023, 11:32 AM
Jul 2023

....there will never be a scenario where you will be able to use 180,000 of a second shutter speed. even using an ultra fast lens (f/.95, for example), wide open on a sunny day, you'll never have enough light to get anywhere near that, unless maybe you're within 100 meters of a nuclear explosion or you plan to take jeff bezo's rocket to the sun and photograph its surface. there may be scientific applications where 1/180,000 would be used, but i can't think of any....if anyone knows of any common scenario where 180,000 of a second shutter speed would even render an image at a usable ISO, i'd love to know.

for shooting lightning storms, especially at night, people use quite slow shutter speeds and try to get their ISO between 100 and 400. it's very dark outside, so, because in addition to the lightning strike, you want to get the surroundings of the landscape to show up, you need a longer shutter speed....i have read that people use up to 20 second shutter speeds.

for shooting even the fastest moving sports outdoors or indoors, even motor sports, you'll never have enough light to shoot anywhere near 180,000 of a second, nor would you ever need a shutter speed that fast to freeze motion. if you have enough light to use 1/1000 indoors, you'll be lucky and that will be more than sufficient. outdoors, with more sun, you might be able to go faster, but i would use any extra light to instead stop the lens down a bit for a bit more depth of field to make up for a subject moving out of the focal plane or to lower the ISO for better image quality. 1/1000 is even more than enough for motor sports since you'll likely be panning along with the car anyway.

for photos where people completely freeze motion of stuff like a bullet, an exploding balloon or a hummingbird's wings, they use strobes which have a duration of something like 1/20,000 of a second but provide a burst of light strong enough to allow an exposed image even at low ISO.

so, for choosing your camera, don't worry about fastest shutter speed....every camera out there will be fast enough for you. some things to think about, instead, are:

1. low light performance (some high resolution sensors are lacking here)

2. lens selection (does the camera mount have a selection of lenses that includes the focal lengths and speeds that you want or need)

3. frame rate (will you be shooting a lot of fast moving sports or birds in flight where you need enough frames per second to give you a higher "keeper" rate)

4. autofocus speed and accuracy (important for fast moving subjects)

5. build quality (will you need something that can withstand jostling or banging around and will you need a weather proof body because you'll be out in the rain, etc)

6. menu systems and user interface (try out several brands and models to see which ones are easiest for you to use...remember that you'll often be making fast adjustments on the fly and you don't want to miss any shots because of a confusing interface)

7. sensor size (there is a lot to consider here and the internet is full of debates and opinions on the subject....there are advantages and disadvantages to each of the 3 most popular sensor formats: full frame, APS-C and micro 4/3...so a lot of it depends on what you'll be shooting and your preferences/restrictions for size and weight of the gear)

there are other things to consider, as well, such as how much image stabilization you'll need or whether or not you'll also be using the camera for video, etc. fuji makes great cameras, no matter which one you select, i think you'll be happy.....but, in the end, brand doesn't matter....all the brands make entry level gear, hobbyist gear and pro gear and you always get what you pay for.


usonian

(13,782 posts)
11. Off the top of my head. And I could be wrong.
Fri Jul 14, 2023, 01:49 AM
Jul 2023

I searched for articles on lighting photography. Most are taken at shutter speeds from 1/200 sec to many seconds, to get the full stroke or several, and have a visible background and foreground.

The lighting strike is its own strobe flash, being very fast. Humans can't resolve less than 0.2 seconds, so we see it as one, basically.

I took a perfectly fine lighting photo with either the iPhone or Coolpix. I recall using video and picking the best frame.

IMO, you need extreme shutter speed only to watch the stroke progress, making you a meteorologist or physicist.

One quora user says about 50 microseconds or more. One millisecond is 1/1000 sec. One microsecond is 1 millionth of a second.

Articles describe a lightning trigger to replace your slow reflexes.

https://photographylife.com/how-to-photograph-lightning

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/how-to-photograph-lightning

So, IMO, unless you're studying lightning progression, which requires extremely fast gear, almost any camera can do a fine job, the difference would seem to be the trigger, fingers being the slowest link.

I reserve the right to edit this.

tornado34jh

(1,292 posts)
12. Okay, I see what you all mean
Sun Jul 16, 2023, 04:11 AM
Jul 2023

I don't use lightning triggers, and I have no idea where I would even find them. Now I did notice some cameras have a Top LCD (e.g. Canon R5, Fujifilm X-H2, Nikon Z6). Do you use it often and how useful is it? I have heard some say it lags behind when you change things like ISO and aperture, while others say it is good because you don't have to look down at the screen to look at it.

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