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Towlie

(5,460 posts)
Sun Feb 20, 2022, 11:55 AM Feb 2022

Buried in his faulty cause & effect logic, a Palm Beach Post reader offers us some hope for Florida.

The Palm Beach Post: Moving to Florida comes with costs

Not many years ago, I moved from California to Nevada. The confiscatory taxes, traffic, crime, homelessness and debilitating regulations were what precipitated my move. I was soon followed by a flood of people fleeing California for the same reasons. The irony is that most brought their California liberal politics with them, turning the state from red to blue and they are now facing the same problems they left behind. Your article showing the "avalanche" of people coming to Florida from ultra-blue states, New York, California and New Jersey, will likely have the same result.
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Buried in his faulty cause & effect logic, a Palm Beach Post reader offers us some hope for Florida. (Original Post) Towlie Feb 2022 OP
Can I get an, AMEN! Baitball Blogger Feb 2022 #1
Palm Beach rso Feb 2022 #2
Hi Neighbor, I'm in West Palm and we're determined to keep it blue! n/t SheilaAnn Feb 2022 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author SheilaAnn Feb 2022 #5
Agree Lydiarose Feb 2022 #12
WOOHOO!!! ShazzieB Feb 2022 #3
As a Broward County-ian (prob not a word) FM123 Feb 2022 #6
Another Borward County-ean checking in... RustyWheels Feb 2022 #7
Right now I can only hope it comes true. katmondoo Feb 2022 #8
I'm one vote! snowybirdie Feb 2022 #9
we were headed to Key West from California in summer of 2020.... bahboo Feb 2022 #10
The Keys are doomed. The dream is dead. Lydiarose Feb 2022 #13
I moved out of So Fla two years ago. Wound up in west central Fla.. it's Different.. mitch96 Feb 2022 #11
To where did you move? Lydiarose Feb 2022 #14
I got a killer deal from a friend for a town house in the Tampa area.. It's nice and the people mitch96 Feb 2022 #15
We not getting their best. Loge23 Feb 2022 #16

rso

(2,460 posts)
2. Palm Beach
Sun Feb 20, 2022, 12:18 PM
Feb 2022

Sounds good to me. Palm Beach County, where I live, as well as Broward and Miami-Dade are already solidly blue, so hopefully other counties move in the same direction.

Response to rso (Reply #2)

FM123

(10,126 posts)
6. As a Broward County-ian (prob not a word)
Sun Feb 20, 2022, 12:36 PM
Feb 2022

I say WELCOME to South Florida and please bring your liberal politics with you!

bahboo

(16,953 posts)
10. we were headed to Key West from California in summer of 2020....
Sun Feb 20, 2022, 07:21 PM
Feb 2022

then Covid. Still happily in SoCal after seeing how fucked up Florida has become. Going to spend a month in KW at the end of this year, to see what it feels like. May still make the move, since living in KW has been a dream for a long time. We'll see...

Lydiarose

(68 posts)
13. The Keys are doomed. The dream is dead.
Mon Feb 21, 2022, 12:18 PM
Feb 2022

America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

Mass migration begins as coastal homes are bulldozed in the state facing the biggest threat from climate-driven inundation.

Lori Rittel is stuck in her Florida Keys home, living in the wreckage left by Hurricane Irma two years ago, unable to rebuild or repair. Now her best hope for escape is to sell the little white bungalow to the government to knock down.

Her bedroom is still a no-go zone so she sleeps in the living room with her cat and three dogs. She just installed a sink in the bathroom, which is missing a wall, so she can wash her dishes inside the house now. Weather reports make her nervous. “I just want to sell this piece of junk and get the hell out,” she said. “I don’t want to start over. But this will happen again.”
----------------------
And

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/24/florida-keys-climate-change-sea-level-rise

The water is coming’: Florida Keys faces stark reality as seas
Oliver Milman
Oliver Milman
@olliemilman
Thu 24 Jun 2021 07.00 EDT

Long famed for its spectacular fishing, sprawling coral reefs and literary residents such as Ernest Hemingway, the Florida Keys is now acknowledging a previously unthinkable reality: it faces being overwhelmed by the rising seas and not every home can be saved.

Following a grueling seven-hour public meeting on Monday, held in the appropriately named city of Marathon, officials agreed to push ahead with a plan to elevate streets throughout the Keys to keep them from perpetual flooding, while admitting they do not have the money to do so.

The string of coral cay islands that unspool from the southern tip of Florida finds itself on the frontline of the climate crisis, forcing unenviable choices upon a place that styles itself as sunshine-drenched idyll. The lives of Keys residents – a mixture of wealthy, older white people, the one in four who are Hispanic or Latino, and those struggling in poverty – face being upended.

If the funding isn’t found, the Keys will become one of the first places in the US – and certainly not the last – to inform residents that certain areas will have to be surrendered to the oncoming tides.

“The water is coming and we can’t stop it,” said Michelle Coldiron, mayor of Monroe county, which encompasses the Keys. “Some homes will have to be elevated, some will have to be bought out. It’s very difficult to have these conversations with homeowners, because this is where they live. It can get very emotional.”

Once people are unable to secure mortgages and insurance for soaked homes, the Keys will cease to be a livable place long before it’s fully underwater, according to Harold Wanless, a geographer at the University of Miami. “People don’t have a concept of what sea level rise will do to them. They just can’t conceive it,” he said.

On Monday, the county gave details of its plan to spend $1.8bn over the next 25 years to raise 150 miles of roads in the Keys, deploying a mixture of new drains, pump stations and vegetation to prevent the streets becoming inundated with seawater. The heightened roadways are eagerly anticipated by residents who told the meeting of cars being ruined by the salt water and of donning boots to wade to front doors.

“The roads are shot, they’re full of cracks, the water is permeating up,” said Kimberly Sikora, who lives in a vulnerable neighborhood of Key Largo called Stillwright Point that is still awaiting a full road elevation proposal. “I’m just looking for some kind of relief.”

Another resident, Robert Schaller of Twin Lakes, an area further along in the planning process, muttered that he “should’ve done my due diligence” when buying his house last year. “I literally stand on my balcony and watch the water come up through my street,” he said. “It’s coming up right through the pavement.”

But Monroe county’s budget will not cover the raising of all the roads, nor any mass buyout of homes, and an appeal to Florida state lawmakers to levy a new tax to cover these mounting costs has been rebuffed. Further costs will pile up as the county grapples with how – and who pays - to keep critical infrastructure such as sewers and power substations, as well as people’s homes, from being flooded along with the roads.

“If we can’t raise additional money then we will have to look at prioritizing,” said Rhonda Haag, Monroe county’s chief resilience officer.

“For example, should we spend money on raising roads if people aren’t paying to raise their yards? We are blazing trails here. We are ahead of everyone in having to think about this.”

The pancake-flat Keys are in jeopardy from rising seas that are, as a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa) scientist told the county commissioners in the Monday meeting, accelerating upwards as the vast ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica melt away. Human-caused global heating means an extra 17in of sea level rise by 2040, according to an intermediate Noaa projection used by the county.

Compounding this problem, the islands’ porous limestone allows the rising seawater to bubble up from below, meaning it just takes high tides on sunny days to turn roads into ponds, while global heating is also spurring fiercer hurricanes that can occasionally crunch into the archipelago.

“The Florida Keys are one of the most vulnerable places to flooding in North America,” said Kristina Hill, an environmental planner at the University of California, Berkeley, who warned that the islands would face growing road and pipe maintenance costs, more pollution leaks and harmful algal blooms.

“Without a change in strategy, parts of the Keys will become accessible only by boat,” said Hill, adding that the islands could have to resort to floating structures and navigable canals to remain viable. “The islands will gradually disappear into a higher ocean, potentially leaving a ruined landscape of leaky underground storage tanks, old pipes, and flooded road segments behind to pollute the water.”

The threats faced by the Keys are shrugged off by some of its wealthy retirees who view the situation with a certain fatalism, while others in this Republican-voting bastion openly question the science. Eddie Martinez, one of the county’s five elected commissioners, challenged the Noaa scientist, William Sweet, on his sea level rise projections on Monday.

The sea level rise to date is “really a nothing number”, said Martinez, who told Sweet: “You’re a little bit more on this CO2 side, I’m more on the actual measurement side.” Another commissioner, David Rice, said that “predicting the future is probably best done with a crystal ball” and speculated that global temperatures could change following several volcanic eruptions.

“There are people who don’t want to sell because they love it here, others who want to get out while they can and those in complete denial who call you a troublemaker who is driving down property values by talking about it,” said George Smyth, a retiree who moved to Key Largo a decade ago for the quiet, slow-paced lifestyle. In 2019, his neighborhood spent 90 days partially submerged in water.

The nature of the Keys has changed in this time. While the islands still include pockets of poverty, an influx of affluent second-home owners has caused new properties to sprout up around Smyth. “It used to be pretty rough and tumble, you’d see a few fights on a Saturday night,” he said. “Now everyone looks like they’ve just come from the cosmetic dentist.”

Other new realities are more laborious – Smyth has to wash his car continually to rid it of salt water and has to pay for trucks to unload piles of crushed-up rocks around his property as a buffer against the encroaching tides. While Smyth doesn’t class himself as particularly wealthy, these protections are beyond the means of low-income Keys residents, many of whom live in exposed mobile homes dotted along the islands.

Smyth fears that the county will require poorer residents to stump up the money for the roads, rather than put a levy on the tourists that flock to the Keys. “We feel we are being held hostage,” he said. “I feel sorrow for what is coming and the loss of what is a wonderful community.”

But the mayor defiantly insists the Keys can be saved, even if it is currently unclear how. “We know we live in paradise and we want to keep it that way,” said Coldiron.
Once people are unable to secure mortgages and insurance for soaked homes, the Keys will cease to be a livable place long before it’s fully underwater, according to Harold Wanless, a geographer at the University of Miami. “People don’t have a concept of what sea level rise will do to them. They just can’t conceive it,” he said.

Another resident, Robert Schaller of Twin Lakes, an area further along in the planning process, muttered that he “should’ve done my due diligence” when buying his house last year. “I literally stand on my balcony and watch the water come up through my street,” he said. “It’s coming up right through the pavement.”

But Monroe county’s budget will not cover the raising of all the roads, nor any mass buyout of homes, and an appeal to Florida state lawmakers to levy a new tax to cover these mounting costs has been rebuffed. Further costs will pile up as the county grapples with how – and who pays - to keep critical infrastructure such as sewers and power substations, as well as people’s homes, from being flooded along with the roads.

“If we can’t raise additional money then we will have to look at prioritizing,” said Rhonda Haag, Monroe county’s chief resilience officer.

“For example, should we spend money on raising roads if people aren’t paying to raise their yards? We are blazing trails here. We are ahead of everyone in having to think about this.”

Compounding this problem, the islands’ porous limestone allows the rising seawater to bubble up from below, meaning it just takes high tides on sunny days to turn roads into ponds, while global heating is also spurring fiercer hurricanes that can occasionally crunch into the archipelago.

“The Florida Keys are one of the most vulnerable places to flooding in North America,” said Kristina Hill, an environmental planner at the University of California, Berkeley, who warned that the islands would face growing road and pipe maintenance costs, more pollution leaks and harmful algal blooms.

“There are people who don’t want to sell because they love it here, others who want to get out while they can and those in complete denial who call you a troublemaker who is driving down property values by talking about it,” said George Smyth, a retiree who moved to Key Largo a decade ago for the quiet, slow-paced lifestyle. In 2019, his neighborhood spent 90 days partially submerged in water.

mitch96

(14,658 posts)
11. I moved out of So Fla two years ago. Wound up in west central Fla.. it's Different..
Sun Feb 20, 2022, 11:40 PM
Feb 2022

I see more pro TFG signs... OH and the flags, gotta have flags..
People on the street with signs sometimes..

Just another day in paradise..

To change Fla you have to change the lobby's strangle hold on the legislators.. and it's all about MONEY.. Big Agriculture, gaming and the entertainment industry to name a few are big stuff down here..
m

Lydiarose

(68 posts)
14. To where did you move?
Mon Feb 21, 2022, 12:23 PM
Feb 2022

Also getting out of S FLA, but don't know where to go. Definitely north, but how far? Maybe Canada? Oh, waiting! They don't want Americans!

mitch96

(14,658 posts)
15. I got a killer deal from a friend for a town house in the Tampa area.. It's nice and the people
Mon Feb 21, 2022, 01:59 PM
Feb 2022

are more polite than So Fla. The problem is the TRAFFIC!! Anytime I have to go any where the traffic sucks even on non rush hour times..
The traffic reporters call I-4/ I-275 "malfunction junction" It's a mess. I lived between Miami and Ft Lauderdale and the worst traffic during the season was less busy than summers over here. YMMV
If anything is gonna get me out of here it's the traffic...uff.
m

Loge23

(3,922 posts)
16. We not getting their best.
Mon Feb 21, 2022, 04:18 PM
Feb 2022

We're getting the deplorables who never really fit in to begin with - and they all love Governor Doofus.

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