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teamster633

(2,032 posts)
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:16 PM Jun 2016

The primary process of the Democratic Party does require one major change:

Henceforth, anyone running as a Democrat must be a Democrat. I have no idea how we got to where we are today, but I hope we, as a party, take steps to ensure that we never end up here again.

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The primary process of the Democratic Party does require one major change: (Original Post) teamster633 Jun 2016 OP
The very person who pushed through a decision to let DURHAM D Jun 2016 #1
In other words: Don't adopt a pet that bites. Koinos Jun 2016 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author BootinUp Jun 2016 #4
Well, Sanders is technically a Democrat. TwilightZone Jun 2016 #3
There needs to be minimum requirements to have access to party structure. LiberalFighter Jun 2016 #5
And maybe certain disqualifying factors as well. teamster633 Jun 2016 #9
I agree! I am so p***ed. I wonder how the DNC, President Obama and Hillary REALLY skylucy Jun 2016 #11
You should have to be a Democrat for as long as it's been since the last election for the office... BobbyDrake Jun 2016 #6
"The Sanders Rule"! yallerdawg Jun 2016 #8
Technically, he's still a Democrat. And he won't pull his "I'm an Independent again!" bullshit until BobbyDrake Jun 2016 #10
Sanders is still an independent in the Senate. yallerdawg Jun 2016 #12
He declared as a Democrat in NH in 2015. He had to do so to get on the ballot there. TwilightZone Jun 2016 #13
Not a Democrat. yallerdawg Jun 2016 #15
Well, he self-declared as a Democrat TwilightZone Jun 2016 #16
He declared himself "Not a Democrat" for longer than I've been alive! yallerdawg Jun 2016 #17
Oh, I agree. I'm just saying that he has an out - he self-declared as a Dem at the beginning of all TwilightZone Jun 2016 #18
Which was the comment at the start of this thread. yallerdawg Jun 2016 #19
I was responding to your question: "How did an independent even get to run in closed primaries" TwilightZone Jun 2016 #21
I have a slightly hire bar than you. yallerdawg Jun 2016 #22
It doesn't matter if I think he's a Democrat or not. I'm not in charge. TwilightZone Jun 2016 #23
I can't make it any clearer to you. yallerdawg Jun 2016 #24
He has filed the required paperwork with the Senate to run stopbush Jun 2016 #26
Didn't "HE" once say he wanted to destroy the Pathwalker Jun 2016 #7
Yes! Party loyalty should be a greater driving incentive than self-promotion. nt eastwestdem Jun 2016 #14
+1000! DemonGoddess Jun 2016 #20
Yeah, no more friggin trojan horses Cha Jun 2016 #25
^^^AMEN to this!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jun 2016 #27
Require Release of taxes! of all Presidential candidates! Her Sister Jun 2016 #28
Agreed....nt asuhornets Jun 2016 #29

DURHAM D

(32,835 posts)
1. The very person who pushed through a decision to let
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:21 PM
Jun 2016

him run as a Democrat is now being attacked by said candidate. Go figure.





Response to DURHAM D (Reply #1)

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
3. Well, Sanders is technically a Democrat.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:27 PM
Jun 2016

He doesn't have a history of being a Democrat, of course, but he is one at present.

Since party identification is fluid and, for the most part, self-selected, it would be difficult to prove that someone isn't a Democrat if the person identifies as one and is registered as one.

LiberalFighter

(53,467 posts)
5. There needs to be minimum requirements to have access to party structure.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:39 PM
Jun 2016

At least 3 years identified as a Democrat.

Has donated to at least 5 Democratic candidates in the past 5 years of which 3 must have been elected. Or help fund-raise for at least 7 Democratic candidates in the past 5 years of which 5 must have been elected.

Has not criticized the Democratic President by suggesting he should be primaried.

Failure to meet the requirements would result in being denied access to data access and any other tools available to candidates.

teamster633

(2,032 posts)
9. And maybe certain disqualifying factors as well.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:27 PM
Jun 2016

For instance, if you've spent most of your political career criticizing the party from the outside, you will not be allowed inside. Let's say Bernie had decided to run as an independent from the outset. There's little question that he would have gotten nowhere. Now, having availed himself of our party structure and the party's national standing, he has become a candidate with national standing. But having no demonstrable loyalty to our party, no one can be certain where he goes from here. He has used the party structure to denigrate the party---poisoned many Democrats against the party from within the party. Now he wants to hold his adherents hostage in an effort to blackmail the party into conceding to his demands. Going forward, we cannot allow this to ever happen again.

skylucy

(3,854 posts)
11. I agree! I am so p***ed. I wonder how the DNC, President Obama and Hillary REALLY
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:46 PM
Jun 2016

feel about this little **** fit that BS is having. They are trying to put a good face on this, but I do wonder what they are saying in private.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
6. You should have to be a Democrat for as long as it's been since the last election for the office...
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:13 PM
Jun 2016

...in which you are running. House candidate? 2 years. Senate candidate? Maybe some leeway here because of the irregular cycle, so say 2 years in general for Congress.

President? 4 years or longer.

As Bernie has demonstrated, a presidential candidate with an open loathing for the party he is running to lead is a waste of millions of dollars and embarrassing to witness.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
8. "The Sanders Rule"!
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:26 PM
Jun 2016

Hillary's and the DNC rep's really need to make this a Democratic platform priority!

And if Senator Sanders (I-VT) wants to run again in 4 years (as if) he better make that change NOW or he won't qualify!

We need to email, facebook, and tweet DWS! I bet she'd appreciate it!!!

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
10. Technically, he's still a Democrat. And he won't pull his "I'm an Independent again!" bullshit until
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:32 PM
Jun 2016

after the convention.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
12. Sanders is still an independent in the Senate.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:50 PM
Jun 2016

From "About Bernie Sanders":

Bernie Sanders is serving his second term in the U.S. Senate after winning re-election in 2012 with 71 percent of the vote. His previous 16 years in the House of Representatives make him the longest serving independent member of Congress in American history.

No mention of being a "Democrat." Only wants to be the Democratic nominee, as through one of the two major political parties is there any path to the presidency - he said.

"The Sanders Rule" must include the requirement that your party affiliation as an officeholder must be a big (D) - for the number of years you mention!

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
15. Not a Democrat.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:26 PM
Jun 2016

They just let him run as a Democrat. He remains the independent (No Party Affiliation) senator from Vermont.

He says, “I am running as a Democrat obviously, I am a Democrat now.”

Although Secretary of State Bill Gardner is not disputing Sanders’ eligibility, someone could file a challenge with the state’s ballot law commission.

The New Hampshire Democratic Party is supporting Sanders’ right to run in their primary, with chairman Ray Buckley joining Sanders for the filing.

Sanders is the ranking Democrat on the Senate Budget Committee and caucuses with Democrats.

We are talking about making sure this never happens again. How did an independent even get to run in closed primaries where you had to be a registered Democrat to vote in the primary?

Can't ever happen again.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
16. Well, he self-declared as a Democrat
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:42 PM
Jun 2016

"The state’s paperwork to get on the ballot for the February primary requires a candidate to declare as a registered member of whichever party he or she is seeking the nomination. Sanders, a long-time Independent, declared himself a Democrat while filing on Thursday."

So, he had to indicate on the filing paperwork that he was a Democrat. He would probably use that as "proof" that he should have been eligible to run as a D, even though that's just for NH.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
17. He declared himself "Not a Democrat" for longer than I've been alive!
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 08:02 PM
Jun 2016

He remains proudly self-identified as the independent senator from Vermont on his own Senatorial website.

He says he wants to fix and change the Democratic Party - not "my" party or "our" party.

Considering our proposals in this thread, there would be no argument. He has never been a Democrat, and would not be eligible to conveniently "declare" himself one on a whim - and then watch us foolishly go along with it!

We have to have some standards - somewhere.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
18. Oh, I agree. I'm just saying that he has an out - he self-declared as a Dem at the beginning of all
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 08:05 PM
Jun 2016

this, even if it was just because of NH's primary laws.

If we're going to limit candidates to Dems, we'll need to set some kind of time standard, because anyone can declare themselves a Democrat at any point up to filing the paperwork as it stands now.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
21. I was responding to your question: "How did an independent even get to run in closed primaries"
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 08:35 PM
Jun 2016

Because, technically, he's not an independent right now.

For the purposes of this election, he's a Democrat. He self-declared as a Democrat at the beginning and registered as one in NH and the other states that require a party ID to be on the ballot. As far as NH and the other states are concerned, he's a Dem.

We agree that that's not enough, but for this cycle, that's all that was required.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
22. I have a slightly hire bar than you.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:07 PM
Jun 2016
Despite this certainty, Sanders seems uncommitted to being committed to the party. His Senate website and press materials continue to label him as an "independent" while his campaign website lists him as a "Democratic candidate." In his home state of Vermont, there is no party registration.

So can Sanders accurately claim to be unaffiliated with a political party while still running for the Democratic nomination and sometimes calling himself a Democrat?

It may seem oxymoronic, but yes, he can.


You are what you say you are.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/feb/23/bernie-sanders-democrat/

I do not consider him to be a Democrat in any way, shape or form.

But - apparently - you may be able to "oxymoronically" consider him a democrat to your standards?

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
23. It doesn't matter if I think he's a Democrat or not. I'm not in charge.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:24 PM
Jun 2016

What matters is if the people in charge of elections think he's a Democrat. They clearly do or he wouldn't be a Democratic candidate for president, as his website proudly proclaims.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. For purposes of this election, as far as the people who get to determine whether or not someone is a Democrat are concerned, he's a Democrat.

How you or I feel about that matters not one iota.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
24. I can't make it any clearer to you.
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:43 PM
Jun 2016

He is not a Democrat. It doesn't matter what anyone says.

"The freedom of association part of the First Amendment protects political parties. If they want to nominate a non-member, they can do that," said Richard Winger, an expert on ballot access.

Winger pointed out several instances of a party nominating a non-member: 1872 when the Democratic Party chose Republican Horace Greeley; in 1864 when the Republican Party chose Democrat Andrew Johnson; and in 1952 when the Republican Party picked independent Dwight Eisenhower (who promptly changed his party registration).

Robert Wigton, a political science professor at Eckerd College who wrote The Parties in Court, said he’d call Sanders an independent for now, given how little the senator has said on the topic. But as he gets closer to the nomination, he’ll make the switch and "probably try to shed that ‘socialist label’ if he gets close to a general election ballot."

One thing is clear: Sanders isn’t enthusiastic about being part of the Democratic club, or any club for that matter.

Since Sanders is not the Democratic nominee, he is through pretending to be "a Democrat."

I don't understand why you refuse to recognize this fact?

Pathwalker

(6,602 posts)
7. Didn't "HE" once say he wanted to destroy the
Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:25 PM
Jun 2016

Democratic Party - that it was one of his lifetime goals? I ask, because his insistence on open primaries, allowing Republican chicanery to choose our nominee would aid in that goal. Add his insistence that we remove the Super Delegate system, and our Party could end up with a Trump candidate, and the harm these could cause makes me very leery of his proposals.

Or, am I mistaken?

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