guess who is at the opening day of the baseball at Fenway?

[karynnj]

Link to tweet

After the intense travel, negotiations and work of the last 4 years, great that he can enjoy his team.

[YvonneCa]

1. I visited...

...Boston for the first time with my daughter about a week ago. Saw Fenway...
Boston is a beautiful city! 😀

[politicasista]

2. Ok. n/t

[karynnj]

3. Actually, for the first time in decades, he is free to say what he thinks

He is completely out of government and he is not running for anything. His own record is clear and he is not a war monger. In fact, other than Carter, no one is less so in reality.

No matter what the American media says, he knows he was a key player in getting 1300 tons (per politico - long ago JK statements said 600 tons) of chemical weapons out of that unstable country.

That happened ONLY because of the threat of force. If JK had pushed Obama in the direction DU wanted, which was essentially to not respond, it never would have happened.

The only thing I read was a comment at a Peabody event before the strikes and comments in Politico where they quote an anonymous friend of Kerry. In the Politico piece the goal of this tactical strike was good if it is used as a lever to stop chemical weapons being used and move to a ceasefire and diplomatic solution.

Kerry is being consistent and most foreign policy analysts over the last few years argued that the fact that the Obama administrations had ruled out a military response made the diplomatic effort much harder.

As it is, last night there were reports that Trump said this was all that will be done. That statement and the lack of a competent negotiator might already have lost any possible benefit.

At to Kerry, the many medals and honors he received internationally and the praise and respect he got from people who worked closely with him and those to him are what matters. Probably the only thing that matters more is what he thinks of his accomplishments himself. I saw a tweet I did not understand a few months ago until my daughter Sent an email to listen to a podcast that Heather Higginbottom did. The tweet, was something like - I hope I live a life where someone will speak of me like Heather Higginbottom spoke of Kerry. The next day, my daughter Sent me the link as she follows that series of podcasts.

[politicasista]

4. Ok n/t

[karynnj]

5. With. Favreau, he was with Kerry straight out of college

Favreau joined Obama before he ran, experienced a winning campaign and being in the White House. It is no wonder that it is Obama he is amazed by.

My point is that JK, who at least as of yesterday said nothing after the strikes, is going to sa what he thinks is the right thing to do.

I have seen very little anywhere attacking him on that. More is said of not getting all the chemical weapons - just 1300 tons. I see more on HRC backing it.

[politicasista]

6. Maybe we agree to disagree n/t

Last edited Sat Apr 8, 2017, 10:34 PM - Edit history (5)

[karynnj]

7. Actually HRC is getting attacked more on both DU and Daily Kos

There have been several threads here where she was attacked for calling for this type of attack - during the election, after the CW attack, and after Trump attacked. On Daily Kos, the only thread speaking of Dems in favor is https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/middleeast/werent-syrias-chemical-weapons-destroyed-its-complicated.html?_r=0 , which is the number one reccomended diary.

Using find, there are 3 Kerry references, two praising his efforts to get a ceasefire, diplomatic solution and bringing in humanitarian aide. The other one includes Kerry in a list with Schumer and Pelosi as "supporting it". There are 22 comments - only 4 defending her hawkishness - for Hillary Clinton. I also looked at twitter and there are not many tweets mentioning him negatively by our side. There are many claiming that the CW deal was not successful or even a lie all with RW links. There are also many tweets mostly from the right linking to RW sites referencing the Politico story.

That, incidentally is an attack on Obama as well - because if you say that it was not successful, you could claim that Trump's strike did more. However, the fact is that 1300 tons of chemical weapons were removed. That is NOT in question and anyone who thinks that havingan additional 1300 tons of CW in Syria would not have led to greater death and destuction - especially if either Al Nusra or ISIS got some of it - is nuts. Here is a good summary of that - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/middleeast/werent-syrias-chemical-weapons-destroyed-its-complicated.html

Kerry has neither spoken to the media or tweeted anything about Trump's attacks. There are several articles all refering to a comment written by Politico that a Kerry "friend" (unidentified) says he was in favor if it were done carefully and linked to trying to advance diplomacy. Clinton, on the other hand did speak out. Blinken, a former deputy SoS and before that Biden aide is quoted directly.

[politicasista]

8. Ok. Will concede that. n/t

[karynnj]

9. Kerry was far from the only person in the administration who thought some military

action could be helpful. In fact, now in the same article Under secretary Blinken, who had been a Biden aide, and other Obama administartion people at lower levels spoke out for it.

Why are you saying Kerry fell for any Trump distraction? The only comment Kerry made was before Trump did anything, because - as he was while secretary he cares about both the people being killed and diplomacy.

You completely miss that OBAMA decided for an attack and made a speech - Kerry, following his boss did his job and made his speech, which was vetted by Obama's team -- Obama CHANGED his mind .. after he sent Kerry, Hagel and other out to make the case. As it was, it was KERRY who got Obama out of that jam with his comment on getting rid of chemical weapons and his diplomatic effort with Lavrov to get the chemical weapons deal. Neither Biden or the Pentagon were ever on record against the attack on Syria. Here is Biden saying they must pay a price -http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/meast/syria-civil-war/ In fact, it was ONLY Denis McDonough and Obama, who took a walk, made the decision to go to Congress. Note that they instructed Kerry, Hagel and others to answer that in doing so he was NOT relinguishing his right to do so.

Goldberg, incidentally is a neocon so he was NOT making Kerry look bad. Kerry has not made a single statement that could be seen as positive about ANYTHING Trump related -- and there are several where he goes as far as a SoS could to say that he is a disaster.

KERRY HAS NOT MADE A STATEMENT ON TRUMP's SYRIAN ATTACK - not on twitter, in person, or in an interview - HRC, who has always been more hawkish has. Kerry has made comments on the Moslem ban and joined with Albright to write a statement against it for the courts that were suing to overturn it. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/us/politics/trump-travel-ban-john-kerry.html

[politicasista]

10. Ok. n/t

Last edited Sat Apr 8, 2017, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[karynnj]

11. The Hill slants to the right

and their comments center is always a sewer. Seriously, you would see attacks on Obama, Biden, either Clinton in as many as 60 to 70 percent of the comments. As to finding one person tweeting negative comments on Kerry, you will find that for any public figure.

The fact is that no one was working harder to get a diplomatic solution -- and he actually succeeded beyond what anyone thought possible. He did get a resolution passed at the UN on Syria which no one thought possible. The idea that "he wanted a war" is incredibly ridiculous. In fact, as he was leaving office, even Sergei Lavrov spoke of how he was very sincere in trying to work past ideology and get to a ceasefire and Geneva talks. When even the man on the other side praises his efforts to get peace, it is silly to quote a randoom person on twitter.

[politicasista]

12. Ok n/t

Last edited Sat Apr 8, 2017, 10:33 PM - Edit history (1)

[karynnj]

13. I am not playing this game

I could find any number of asinine comments that call Obama everything in the book. The same goes for Biden -- and he was trashed even on DU when he considered running. No, I will not post them here.

Not to mention, NONE of these 3 men will run again - and their reputations will not be determined by people throwing mud on boards.

As to anti war -- John Kerry -- and Obama very likely avoided what would have been a devastating war - with Kerry's Iran deal. Obviously this is Obama's top foreign policy accomplishment and what is completely true is that from the begining in 2009 Kerry was the one who made the connections and who was the main advocate. Fro the year and a half when negotiations continued, Obama gave Kerry permission to work on this - but distanced himself by saying that it was more likely not to succeed.

In addition, Obama's other possility for his top diplomatic achievement is the US/China climate pact and the Paris Accord and other environmental agreements after that. Here, Kerry was told when he spoke to Obama to become SoS, that a diplomatic accomplishment on this issue which he wanted as his signature issue - like women's issues were for Clinto- was unlikely. Kerry had worked with the Chinese for decades on this at various conferences -- and he got the essential US/China deal that allowed him to make Lima a success and to get nearly 200 countries to sign on.

Kerry was on Obama's team and likely helped Obama's legacy more than any other person - including Biden. I honestly do not get why you regularly come here to attack Kerry. Imagine that Kerry had not been SoS, it is very likely that NEITHER the Iran Deal or the Paris Accord would have succeeded. Kerry really was that unigue and skilled. Obama's domestic accomplishments would still have made him a very good President, but adding these two big deal accomplishments likely makes him a great President.

Also note that both of these - especially Iran - involved political capital, which Obama used giving Kerry a green light to get the deals. He would not have done this if he did not trust Kerry.

[politicasista]

14. I am not playing any game or attacking anyone

Not disagreeing with everything you have said. Your comments have been an eye-opener.

Sorry if it was taken as slamming Kerry for the work he did in the Obama administration, that wasn't the intent.

Just making an observation and will clean up on the replies.

That said, thanks for sticking up for him and Democrats here.

Hope that he enjoys life and as private citizen with his family. Peace.

[karynnj]

15. Sorry for my comments

Part of what is happening is that predictably, neo con leaning mainstream media - including WP, NYT and CNN - were never happy that Obama did not opt to use the CW to go in and so destroy Assad that he would be driven out of power. They are positive about Trump's attack -- and have tried to negate the value of the removal of 1300 tons of chemical weapons. I don't get why no one stands up and questions how much more damage those tons of chemical weapons - in Assad's, ISIS's or Al Nusra's hands would have done. This seems pretty big versus an attack that may have destroyed some planes.

I did find one thing that might give you hope that the serious left understands both Kerry and Obama. This is one of the best articles I have read comparing Trump's actions that do not seem connected to any serious diplomacy and what the Obama administration did. Given that Syria is the most controversial issue of Obama's Presidency, especially for the anti war left. Obama and Kerry readily admit that they did not suceed in finding the diplomatic solution, but this article from Common Dreams - a site that has always been ready to fault anyone - Democratic or Republican.

Here is the end of the article where he speaks of Obama and Kerry:


Helping ensure that children and civilians aren’t trapped in Syria should be the first and most obvious thing the U.S. can do to help. Second, a far more robust dedication toward finding a diplomatic solution is needed, although such a solution is now more difficult to achieve. Former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry should be commended for his efforts to broker a Syrian deal. I describe in my forthcoming book on the Iran deal negotiations that Kerry, together with former President Barack Obama, provided a key ingredient for the success of those talks: a near unprecedented degree of political will and commitment toward making the negotiations succeed.

Diplomacy over Iran’s nuclear program had been taking place on and off for more than a decade. But those negotiations were profoundly flawed. And even when they became more appropriately structured and realistic, they often faltered due to insufficient political will from one or both sides. The readiness to expend the necessary political capital and pay the domestic political price to achieve a deal was simply missing. Diplomacy had to succeed on the cheap.

But complex international disputes such as the stand-off over the Iranian nuclear program or the Syrian civil war cannot be resolved on the cheap. Trump launching strikes before trying diplomacy gives little hope that he has the political will to truly resolve the conflict.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/04/09/why-trumps-syria-strike-will-not-end-well

[politicasista]

16. It's all good...

I was wrong to link those tweets and rant over Citizen Kerry. The FMs' comments carry a lot more with weight than most. Interesting the ones who furious over this are the Trumpies.

After a few hours away, I am going to step away for a little while longer on this issue.

Thanks for the Common Dreams article. Diplomacy is hard and intense, but in the last 4 (8) years, it was worth the effort. Fingers are still crossed that the IND and PCA can survive Trump's rule. These are very scary times for real (with what's going on in NK, Egypt, Syria, and all over the world).

That said, looking forward to Sec K's commencement speech at Harvard and POTUS44's Profiles In Courage award remarks next month. Should be interesting given all the chaos in the WH and at the State Dept.

Thanks for keeping the light on.