Frightening Reason Behind Explosions Over Tundra - Thom Hartmann

[Rhiannon12866]

The mystery of the Siberian tundra craters may have been solved… but the discovery could point to something far more dangerous.

[Old Crank]

1. We are fucked

Nothing will be done in time. Today's GOP wants every car to get 5 gallons per mile, or burn coal. They would scrap every solar project.

This is probably while we don't get messages from other plants. They have reached our level of development and destroyed themselves. As we are on the road to doing now.

[SharonAnn]

2. I knew the environment would be destroyed the minute the Supreme Court in 2020 stopped the vote counting in Florida.

With Al Gore as president, we might've had a chance of stopping Global Warming. But with GWB, Cheney, and the oil guys in charge, I knew we were doomed. And that's not to mention their failure to provide national security against Osama Bin Laden because they were too busy promoting tax cuts for the wealthy.

[GiqueCee]

3. Stupidity and evil...

... are indistinguishable when the results are the same. NOW will people begin to realize that conservatism is a mental disorder on the sociopathy spectrum?
Time to update the DSM 5.

And another thing... the cause of these craters was painfully obvious a decade ago! And climatologists are just sounding the alarm now?!!?

C'mon guys. We can't be waddling along 10 years behind the curve and expect to survive an existential crisis of catastrophic magnitude.

To the dipshit climate change deniers: YOU fuckers are the reason it's this bad and getting worse at an exponential rate. We're probably well past the point of no return, or coming up on it WAY too fast. Lying about climate change just to make a few greedy assholes richer should be a felony, or better yet, a crime against humanity, which is exactly what it is. And you KNOW that these sociopaths won't stop; they're having too much fun, and making too much money off of this. So maybe they need a really painful incentive to clean up their act. Suggestions are welcome.

[Old Crank]

5. All true

I heard about the methane years ago. I think this is just the final confirmation to nail down all other posible causes that would be brought up by climate deniers and fosil fuel sellers.

I have noticed that all predictions have been off in amounts or time frame. Most have been wrong on theconservative side. this will take 20 years, nope 10. I think this is because they are afraid people will not even come close to believing the real numbers and the models, which are getting better, haven't had the data to get it correct.

Yes we pretty much are unwilling to make sacrifices needed to cut our carbon load. We moved to Europe. We don't have a car, walk, bike, or transit around. Travel by train. Ir we rent a car we don't get the huge cars. We have cut our meat consumption, nto as much as required. We don't by tons of clothes or consumer goods.

But we know a family that blows all our savings out of the water. They fly everywhere. Last year from CA, Paris, Rome, at least that was from paris, two places in the US. Now this year the family is in Hawaii..... Huge house, gas guzzlers...
Evidently the message didn't get to them. Or they feel that one person's sacrifice is meaningless.

[Magoo48]

4. Human greed, promotion of false beliefs, and willful ignorance.

This is one whole-earth catastrophe we can’t simply fob off on Republicans. The entire first world is responsible, or is that irresponsible, for this situation. It’s been growing exponentially for 200 years. Massive attempts at adaptation and survival is the the path left to us. It’s naive to believe the first world populations will consider the monumental “sacrifices” needed for next generations to have a chance. We will not be inconvenienced.

[Old Crank]

6. I know, it is a literal First world problem

caused largely by the first world nations.
The cuts our family have made, by themselves, are essentially meaningless. Some how we have to get the majority to take some responsibility for the crisis even if it won't cause them much trouble in their live time. We need good tax policies to greatly restict the sale and operation of monster personal vehicles. We need that money plowed into infrastructure so people in builtup areas don't need 2 0r perhaps even 1 personal car. I walk, bike or transit for 95% of my in town needs. But I'm in a European city. When I lived in Sunnyvale Ca. A car was a requirement. I still biked 5,000 miles per year, mostly commuting that helped but when most of your needs are more than a mile away people feel they have to drive. The roads aren't safe for cyclists.

I don't know how to get through to these people. And the GOP supportes are just gone.

[Magoo48]

7. Yup, and good on ya' for all that biking. I'm afraid it's gonna be wild and woolly for my grandkids.

[Old Crank]

8. Ja, my daughter also.

[orthoclad]

14. Capitalism is responsible.

They spend whole fortunes on motivational psychologists who design ad campaigns to convince us first-worlders that more, bigger, and faster is better. Sweet reason doesn't stand a chance against the thousands of hours of tv commercials and media propaganda the average Westerner gets over a lifetime.

It's the old FUD strategy, too: Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

Money talks. Loudly.

[Chainfire]

9. C'est la guerre... It is our fault for not tackling our problems, it ain't like we weren't warned...

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=rockford+files+theme+song&type=E210US0G0#id=3&vid=4076e41d5958ca7f80adc8a90a121d7b&action=click

[Rhiannon12866]

10. Agreed! And I have wondered so often what a difference it would have made if we had President Gore...

[Chainfire]

11. Truthfully, I don't think so. He could not have curbed the greed and that is what will be our downfall.

The people of the world have been masterly manipulated by the wealthy who have unsatiable greed, and we are now likely in the position similar to a line from he 1961 movie, The Devil at 4:00, Tracy was hurrying Sinatra off of an island where a volcano was about to explode and told him he was about to miss the last boat, Frank Sinatra told Spencer Tracy, " Father, I missed the boat a long time ago."

I was 9 years old and I have never forgotten that line.

[Rhiannon12866]

12. You're probably right, but since the environment was a priority with Al Gore, I like to think he'd have prioritized awareness

*sigh*

[orthoclad]

17. If Gore had kept fighting,

we might have had a fighting chance to curb the excesses of capitalism and get a start on green energy when we still had time.

We also might have not had 9-11: Gore might have heeded the warnings. No 9-11, no Patriot Act surveillance, no Iraq2, no Afghanistan. What a different world.

My takeaway: don't compromise with evil.

[Rhiannon12866]

19. I completely agree on both points - and I have often wondered if President Gore could have prevented 9/11

I remember seeing an appearance by former President Clinton soon after where he said he was out of the country and that he immediately knew who was responsible.

[OKIsItJustMe]

13. Earth ArXiv: Formation of giant Siberian gas emission craters (GECs)

https://eartharxiv.org/repository/view/6351/

This is a Preprint and has not been peer reviewed. This is version 2 of this Preprint.

Downloads
Download Preprint

Authors
Helge Hellevang, Mats Rouven Ippach, Sebastian Westermann, Mohammad Nooraiepour

Abstract
The recent discovery of eight giant gas escape craters (GECs) in the Russian Yamal and Gydan peninsulas has challenged researchers for the past decade. Despite numerous proposed models, ranging from meteor impacts to gas explosions, none provide a comprehensive explanation for why the GECs are found only in this specific region. This study proposes a new general model for the formation of GECs in which local permafrost thinning is linked to the local geology, i.e., discrete conductive faults bring natural gas and heat to the base permafrost, deforming and melting the base leading to the development of domal gas and heat traps. Atmospheric warming results in further local thinning and eventually mechanical collapse. The morphology of the GECs initially reflects the concentric deformation above domal base-permafrost structures but are after a short time disguised by water and sediment infill, and over time peatification, and cannot be distinguished from e.g., thermokarst lakes. Thus, the true number of GECs may largely exceed those already discovered.

DOI
https://doi.org/10.31223/X59Q3K

Subjects
Earth Sciences, Environmental Sciences

Keywords
Gas Emission Crater (GEC), Permafrost, climate change, Coceptual Model

Dates
Published: 2023-12-07 07:37

Last Updated: 2023-12-07 07:37

[orthoclad]

15. From 2020

https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/giant-new-50-metre-deep-crater-opens-up-in-arctic-tundra/



I avoid videos, especially googletube, so here's some text and image material:
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/geology/mystery-of-siberias-giant-exploding-craters-may-finally-be-solved
"Permafrost on the Yamal and Gydan peninsulas varies widely in its thickness, ranging from a few hundred feet to 1,600 feet (500 m). The soil likely froze solid more than 40,000 years ago, imprisoning ancient marine sediments rich in methane that gradually transformed into vast natural gas reserves. These reserves produce heat that melts the permafrost from below, leaving pockets of gas at its base.

Permafrost in Russia and elsewhere is also thawing at the surface due to climate change. In places where it is already thin on the Yamal and Gydan peninsulas, melting from both ends and the pressure from the gas may eventually cause the remaining permafrost to collapse, triggering an explosion.

This "champagne effect" would explain the presence of smaller craters around the eight giant craters, as huge chunks of ice propelled out by the explosions may have severely dented the ground, according to the preprint."

The paper is in preprint and not yet peer-reviewed as of Jan 2024. Theories of why these craters are found in Siberia may be questioned, but the fact of their existence isn't, and their release of methane is a positive feedback loop.

[Rhiannon12866]

16. Yikes!! Thanks so much for the horrifying illustrations!

[orthoclad]

18. They make a scary sight.

Methane volcanoes?

[Rhiannon12866]

20. Absolutely! After listening to Thom Hartmann, I did wonder what they looked like, now I know

And they're even more horrifying than I imagined...

[orthoclad]

21. Also, dramatic as these craters are,

they are dwarfed by the methane leakage from the fossil industry. Some of these are visible from space, miles-long plumes of methane. The US and Khazakhstan come to mind for major leaks.

As we shift into positive feedback territory, though, outgassing from thawing peat, tundra, and ocean clathrates will dwarf human sources. Watch the Arctic. The craters are a dramatic early warning.