Turning my old, heavy duty top load washing machine into a high efficiency model

[Kaleva]

Yesterday I measured the amount of water that my top load washing machine used in the wash, rinse and spin cycle for a large load and it was about 48 gallons. As I do about two such loads a week, that's close to 400 gallons a month just to wash my clothes.

After I hauled that water outside to water plants and shrubs from the container I used to measure the amount of water, I was too messed up to do anything more then read on line about what I could do to cut down on water usage ( I couldn't stand the idea of just dumping that water down the floor drain!). Previously I had looked up the cost of a new, well reviewed 3.9 cu. ft. front loader washer and it's about $800.00 with tax. That's not even close to being a realistic option. Even a new 3.9 cu. ft. top load washing machine costs about $500.00 and that's not do-able either.

I looked at other options (knowing before hand that my old washing machine used alot of water even before I actually measured the amount yesterday) such as the toilet plunger in a bucket method and others. But the problem I have with those is the lack of spin drying. My old washing machine can easily handle my blue jeans, work jacket, sheets, coveralls, my big bath towels and even small carpets and it will spin dry them well enough for me to hang dry them. Now, I've hand wrung heavy, wet items for my mother and grandmother when I was a kid and it wasn't fun then and I don't imagine it's gotten funner since over the years.

So I kept reading yesterday and came across numerous articles talking about soap nuts as a laundry detergent. The per load cost, when bought in bulk, is about 1/3 to 1/2 less then name brand laundry detergents. But the great thing about them is that one doesn't need to use the rinse cycle. That alone would cut my water usage in washing clothes in half. The other great thing about soap nuts is that they are biocompatible which means the wash water is safe to use in gardens.

Soap nuts are non-sudsing so the grey water can be used to fill the toilet tank. Starting today, I'm keeping track of how many times I flush the toilet over the next week. Off the top of my head, I believe the 48 gallons of washing machine water I can capture each week, using the same container I used to measure the water yesterday which has a snap on lid, would provide enough water to flush the toilet.

Yes, I'd have to be down the basement when washing clothes so I can catch the washing machine before it goes into the rinse cycle but I can do other projects down there while washing clothes. And I'd have to carry the water up two flights of stairs to the bathroom but I could get a cheap 13 gallon trash can with a snap on lid to keep in the bathroom along with a plastic coffee can (which I have many of already) to transfer the water from the garbage can to the toilet tank as needed. I'd still have to make one or two trips a day with a 5 gallon bucket, which I have, but I wouldn't have to make the trip every single time I flush the toilet.

Thus I can still keep my big, heavy duty top loader for as long as it lasts and thus will continue to be able to wash my heavy items and use the spin dry feature but also will dramatically reduce my water usage. And I can reduce my laundry detergent costs by at least a 1/3 which isn't much in itself but every little bit of savings adds up.


Info on soap nuts and using them:

http://www.organicsoapnuts.net/soapnut_information.html

A link to Amazon giving info on the price of soap nuts:

http://www.amazon.com/NaturOli-Soap-Nuts-Berries-PIECES/dp/B001NU2L8U

Basically, the greater quantity one buys at a time, the cheaper it is. 5 lbs. is quite a bit but one may be able to split the order with friends and/or neighbors. As I've never used soap nuts (sometimes called "soap berries&quot , my first order is going to be for a much smaller but much cheaper trial size pack. The cost per load with that will be about the same as for Tide. If it works as well as people say, then I'll buy the larger but much cheaper packages.

[Fumesucker]

1. I'd think hard about hauling a five gallon bucket of water up two flights on a regular basis..

All it would take is one misstep on the stairs with forty plus pounds of bucket and water and you could be in a world of hurt that could cost you more than you'll ever save, and that's just money. You'll be concerned about spilling water inside the house so are likely to try and save it if you bobble and that's even more apt to cause injury than if you just let it go. You won't have time to think about it if it happens and your reflexes might cause you to do something silly.

I'd use two two gallon containers and make sure they have a top or seal that will allow you to drop them without spilling, the more balanced and slightly lighter load will be a lot easier on your back and your reflexes are less likely to cause you to try to save a possible spill. You'd have to make about one extra trip a week with four gallons at a time instead of five.

It's easy to lose a fingernail opening the normal five gallon bucket with the pry off top so I wouldn't use that sort of top in any case if I had a choice in the matter.

I noticed that one of the lower ranked reviews on the soap nuts said another brand was superior.

[Kaleva]

4. A 5 gallon bucket filled 1/2 way or so would lessen sloshing over the sides while hauling

I did not mean to imply that's I'd haul 5 gallons of water at a time. My tool bucket which was and still is a 5 gallon bucket that weighs around 55 lbs ( I actually weighed it a few times) and I use to carry that thing up and downstairs all day long and up on to roofs and drag it with me when in a crawl space. Then it got to the point I could only do one or two such jobs and even then I'd sometimes have to ask the customer to carry the bucket for me as it took everything I had to get up the basement stairs myself.

It's not the weight itself that's an issue for me. It's that my legs don't hold up regardless if I'm carrying anything or not.

[Fumesucker]

6. Looking at your other post about rainwater for gardening I gather you pay 1.6 cents per gallon.

Hauling five gallons two flights saves about 8 cents at that rate..

If your legs are likely to crap out on the stairs I'd find some other way of doing it, the risk of hurting yourself is fairly high for that small an amount of money.

One thing that occurs to me is to save your rinse water and use it for the next load wash cycle, the washer doesn't care where the water comes from it just uses a pressure switch to detect the water level.


I agree with Curmudgeoness, the off brand detergents work just fine, I usually use Purex.

[Kaleva]

7. Now that's an idea! Use the rinse water for the next loads wash water. Thanks!

I did notice my rinse water was somewhat dirty itself but I could cut down on that by using my coveralls when doing outside work.

Your idea would save on hauling that water upstairs from the basement as I'd just be transferring water from the storage container right next to the washing machine to the washer when I do laundry.

I certainly need to replace my older 3.5 gallon per flush toilet with a newer model but I'd have to save for a few months to do that.

[Kaleva]

8. A few days ago,I timed myself taking a shower & calculated I used about 12 gallons a day showering.

I was able to scrounge up another plastic stage box with a snap on lid and I put that in the bathroom along with an ice cream pail. As the drain stop on the tub hasn't worked since I bought this place, I then went down to the local store and bought a tub stop for a little over $2. After doing yard work earlier today, I was done and went to take a shower but put the drain plug in place first. After the shower, I dried off and scooped out the water in the tub into the storage container. I didn't spill a drop and it took me just a few minutes to get all the water I could out of the tub.

There's enough water in the container for 3 flushes of the toilet and that's how many times I've been flushing it since I've started keeping track. Doing what you suggested with the rinse water from the washing machine and doing what I did with the shower water, I could save about 500 gallons a month. A savings of $8 a month money wise but everything I do adds up.

Next spring, it'd be rather easy for me to route the drain from the bathtub and bathroom sink into a barrel down in the basement and then by using a sump pump and hose I already have, I could pump the bathroom sink water, clothes washer wash water, and excess shower water not needed for the toilet into a another barrel outside for use in the garden. And I could do this without lugging buckets of water up stairs.

[Fumesucker]

9. Anything that avoids lugging water up two flights of stairs and still saves is a win in my book..

Sounds like a good plan to me..

Although with the sump pump and hose you could pump your wash water upstairs for the flushing if the pump will push sufficient head. Use the rinse water for the garden and the wash water for flushing and let your tub and sink water go to the garden. That would keep the phosphates from detergent mostly out of your garden.

Here in the humid Southeast even a small 5,000 BTU room air conditioner can create several gallons a day of condensate water, that could be worth collecting.

As for saving water on the garden, mulch mulch and more mulch, keep that evaporation to a minimum by covering bare ground. Our county puts large piles of wood chips out from brush clearing/tree trimming and anyone can go and load up just for the shoveling. Old newspaper also makes an excellent water saving mulch.

What time you water counts for a lot too, evening after the ground has cooled and the water has the night and early morning to soak in with minimal evaporation seems to be the most efficient.

[Curmudgeoness]

2. A couple of things.

First, as long as your washer still works, and you are just looking for ways to save water, you can use other methods to wash your clothes, then just dump the wet clothes in the washer and spin it. I do that all the time when I have to wash wool sweaters or other things that I want to hand wash. You don't have to wring by hand, but you don't run the clothes through the wash.

Also, you can use off-brand laundry soap for much cheaper than brand names and they work just as well....at least for me.

I would not be willing to haul large loads of water from my basement to my upstairs toilet. Think of a better solution.

[Kaleva]

5. The thing about even the off brand detergents is that one can't use that water for gardens.

Or at least shouldn't use it for gardens or to fill toilet tanks. The cost of the detergent isn't really an issue for me as I'm still using the same bottle of 175 fl. oz. Xtra laundry detergent that was here when I first moved in back when there was still quite a bit of snow on the ground and it was part full to begin with and it's still half full now.

I've thought about using other ways of washing such as the toilet plunger method and just using the old washer to spin out much of the water but I haven't found anything yet on line that tells me how much water is being used that way.

[Phentex]

3. The other thing about the high efficiency...

is the clothes come out so dry they need less time in the dryer. I love that. And the dryer has sensors so the clothes don't over dry.

We collect water from the A/C. I don't know where you live, but here in GA we collect a lot of water this way. This summer hasn't been as bad as other summers but between the A/C and the rain barrels, we've kept up with the flowers and the garden.

[Kaleva]

10. A possible 3-peat with the washing machine rinse water

Last edited Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Today was laundry day.

I captured the wash water into a large plastic container and used that to wash the laundry basket, some other plastic containers and the garbage can. All of which I rinsed with some the rinse water I captured later. The rest of the wash water I used to do some dusting and wiping down in the basement. As I've never done that since I've owned this place, it didn't take long to use up the rest of the wash water for that purpose and I still have a long way to go. But if I do that every time I wash clothes, it'll be done in time.

The neat thing I realized about the rinse water which I captured to use as the wash water next time I do laundry is that I'm going to get three uses out of it. First as the rinse, then as the wash water and finally used to wash the garbage can and such and for wiping down the very dirty horizontal surfaces in the basement.

Thus even though I'll be cutting my consumption of water for laundry in half, I'll be getting much more done with the water.

Edit: If I was using a biocompatable laundry detergent, I could get four uses out of the water. First for rinsing the clothes, then a clothes wash water the next time I do laundry followed by general cleaning in the basement water and finally using it to water the garden ,and other plants outside.

[Fumesucker]

11. How did the clothes come out?

As clean as with fresh water from the tap?

[Kaleva]

12. I won't know that till the next time I do laundry

Last edited Sat Sep 1, 2012, 09:36 AM - Edit history (1)

I do one large load about every 5-6 days. However, I may be better off doing small loads more often. There's a couple of more 13 gallon (approx.) plastic storage containers with lids of which I could transfer the contents of to the large container that I'm using now to capture the wash and rinse water. That way, one container can be used strictly for the wash water and I can use that to clean in the basement when I want and the other would be used for the rinse water. By doing more but smaller loads a week, the rinse water isn't sitting in a container for close to a week before I use it as the wash water the next time I do laundry.

Edit: I'll be using more electricity running the washing machine more often but as I got the clothes lines stung up in the basement now and won't be using the electric dryer anymore, I doubt I'll see an increase in the electric bill.

[Kaleva]

13. Prewashing my dirtiest clothes in the tub after taking a shower made a big difference

When I know I'll be doing laundry the following day, I'll first presoak overnight my dirtiest clothes in the bathtub after taking a shower . The next morning, I'll hand wash those clothes in the tub and wring them out as best as I can before bringing them down to the basement with the rest of the laundry to wash. I'll still use the water in the tub for flushing the toilet.

Doing it that way has made a noticeable difference in the clarity of rinse water compared to the first time I had captured the rinse water for use as the wash water the next time I did laundry. As far as I can tell, my clothes are just as clean now as they were when I was trying to save water.

[TuxedoKat]

14. Whatever you do

Keep your top loader as long as you can. I have a front loader and don't like it. It doesn't use much water to wash the clothes and it doesn't always get them very clean either. Sometimes I'll have to wash certain things twice. Also, I think it is harder on the clothes than a top loader. It doesn't seem to spin them dry as well either. Also, they get a moldy smell from water collecting in the front.

Maybe I just don't have a very good one, but for my next washer I will go back to a top loader. Unfortunately all the new top loaders use alot less water than the old ones so I'm not too hopeful about them. I guess you are supposed to put fewer clothes in them, but it will take up more time to do more loads of laundry. If I could find a good old-fashioned working top loader second-hand I would buy it.