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SoutherDem

(2,307 posts)
Mon May 14, 2012, 05:37 PM May 2012

Questions about oil and gas prices

And they are not about how FOX can, with a straight face, blame Obama for high gas prices yet not give credit when they fall other than to say it is another sign of a poor economy. These are about the industry.

When oil goes up gas usually goes up in real time. I have seen stations change their prices up to three times daily or by ten cents at a time when oil is going up quickly. When someone in the industry is asked why this happens, the answers is they are having to purchase more oil to refine. Think water heater as you take water out more goes in.

When oil goes down gas usually has a delay before going down. I have seen oil to have dropped and it takes a week or more for the gas prices to go down. When asked why, the answer is the gas in the tank at the station, tank farm and even held at the refinery for shipment was purchased at the previously high price so that expensive oil had to make its way through the system before it shows up at the pump. Think of a propane tank, you purchase an amount and use it up before purchasing more.

How can both be correct? I could understand either answer but not both, changing the answer to meet the profits of the industry.

Also, gas prices do not always seem to move in any ratio to oil.

When oil goes up gas seems to go up in a proportional amount e.g. oil goes up 4% then gas goes up 4%. When asked, the answer is oil is the main driver for the price of gas, so a proportional increase would make sense.

When oil goes down gas seems to go down is a non-proportional amount e.g. oil goes down 4% then gas may go down 3.5%. When asked, the answer is oil is only part of what goes into the price of gas and being forced to formulate for the environment is usually specifically used as an example.

While this may not be profiteering from a legal sense it is from an ethical sense. Why are we still giving tax credits and cuts while they are fleecing their customers every chance they can. While making record profit. Of course the oil industry states that they are only making a 3% profit that compared to other industries this wouldn't be considered much. Well, I was told years ago you can't take percents to the bank. They are still making billions!!!

We often hear the market place is the answer. Well, for non-necessities like TV’s the market place may work. For necessities such as gas it doesn't work.

We as consumers seem to have “magic” prices which causes us to change our habits but the industry has learned how to manipulate the consumer. Push prices beyond one of those points knowing we still have a minimum amount we must purchase to still function. Keep it at that point for a while then back off some but not as much as the most recent increase and we are so relieved to have prices a little lower the scale is reset, we have a new magic number. I my area people seem happy that gas is around $3.50 and are talking about how gas is down. Two years ago $3.00 was considered outrageous. I know we may occasionally have an unusual peek or drop but those are not the norm and usually caused by external efforts, also the percents I listed were for example only.

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Questions about oil and gas prices (Original Post) SoutherDem May 2012 OP
This video does a good job of explaining why gas prices are so high... soc7 May 2012 #1
Video won't play SoutherDem May 2012 #3
That's odd.... it works for me.... soc7 May 2012 #5
Thanks SoutherDem May 2012 #6
It is a product of what economicist call "Price stickinest". happyslug May 2012 #2
Thanks for the links SoutherDem May 2012 #4
 

soc7

(53 posts)
5. That's odd.... it works for me....
Tue May 15, 2012, 11:32 AM
May 2012

try this



Or type "gas prices explained" in the youtube search and look at about the third occurrence. The video has a picture of two cartoon teddy bears standing in front of a chalk board.
 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
2. It is a product of what economicist call "Price stickinest".
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:00 PM
May 2012

People do NOT like taking a loss on any thing, thus as prices goes up, they price previously purchased items as if their cost was the cost of new inventory. As prices fall, sellers keep prices up to cover what they paid for,. In the oil industry it takes only four weeks for the price at the well head to hit the local gas pumps, but eight weeks in the reverse direction. I notice this first in the 1998 price drop, but others saw it well before that. not only in oil but any good that is constantly being replaced (Coal, Food etc).

This phenomenal is know a "Price stickinest" for more see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_%28economics%29
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/NewKeynesianEconomics.html
http://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/paradigm/spring2000/articles/wylie-prices.html

Here is a 46 page paper on the concept:
http://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp1375.pdf

Here is a 39 page paper on the same subject, this time based on a study of gasoline prices:
http://dss.ucsd.edu/~jhamilto/davis.pdf

SoutherDem

(2,307 posts)
4. Thanks for the links
Tue May 15, 2012, 10:49 AM
May 2012

and it did break loose some grey matter and i do remember this from my college economics classes.

I have read the 3 shorter links and will read the long one later today, so my question may be answered, but this seem to apply to commodities and or what I call a necessity. Lets face it although it may be price fixing but if all of the oil companies raised prices to $5 for no reason other than profit, we can't stop driving all together.

So that answers why the prices go up quickly and down slowly, and maybe why they never fall back to the old mark.

But, the double answer, in my examples water heater vs. propane tank, only causes people to question their ethics. Also, some people want to know why if $95 oil = $3.00 last year why doesn't it today, has all the other factors changed so much? (I saw a post on this yesterday)

I could accept the oil companies doing what they do if we were not padding their profits with tax cuts.



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