Could Tesla-style batteries be used to power trains?

[KamaAina]

I'm having a discussion on FB about Caltrain vis-a-vis the dreaded Google buses. Someone pointed out that even diesel-powered trains are electric; the diesel engine is used to power a generator.

So could it work, at least for short hauls like SF to San Jose (45 miles)? The disadvantage to the diesels over catenary or third-rail trains like Metro-North is dwell time at the stations. The 45-mile ride can take an hour and a half with all local stops! With only a few (Baby Bullets), ti's cut down to an hour, but they only run about three of those each way in the morning and three in the afternoon.

[phantom power]

1. I'm not sure it would be a big win. Trains are already very very fuel efficient.

"A ton of freight five hundred miles per gallon of fuel", etc, etc.

[KamaAina]

2. I was thinking of passenger trains

like I said, the diesels Caltrain uses take a LONG time to slow down for each stop and then get back up to full speed. Electrified trains like Metro-North's into NYC do not.

[Agschmid]

3. For passenger trains it could be beneficial, but catenary is easy at this point.

[KamaAina]

4. Easy, maybe, but $$$

which is what we don't have out here.

[happyslug]

5. Conrail used electrical locomotive till 1981

The reason for this was historical. Prior to 1900 the Pennsylvania Railroad entrance into New York City was to stop the train in New Jersey and ship the passenger by ferry to Manhattan. Given that the New York Central had a direct line from Manhattan to the rest of its line, this gave the NYC a huge advantage over the Pennsylvania Railroad, an advantage the Pennsylvania Railroad was NOT going to last for long.

The problem was how to get into Manhattan. A bridge was impossible for it had to be high enough to permit sailing ships to go under it. A tunnel was impossible for how do you vent the fumes from the Steam locomotives? Finally around 1905 an answer was found, an electrical locomotive. this would permit a train to use 44 miles of cuts and tunnels to get right into the heart of Manhattan. This tunnel is still in use and is maxed out, thus the push for a new tunnel to supplement it.

More on the existing tunnel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Tunnel_Extension

The plan for a new tunnel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_Project

Electrical drives offers other advantages, for example the steam locomotives of the time period had great power, but had to have a "Kick" to get them going. As steam locomotive became bigger this kick had to become larger. What engineers ended up doing was when a train pulled into a station, they would set ALL OF THE AIR BRAKES ON THE CARS. This would build up tension behind the engine, whose air brakes were also applied. When the engine decided it was time to pull out, he would release all of the brakes EXCEPT the last few cars, thus giving the engine the "Kick" it needed to get going.

The down side of this system you see in old comedies, with the passengers on the train being knocked frontward and back wards. Electrical locomotive being electric engines did not NEED the kick Stream locomotives needed, thus all that was needed as a gradual slow down and a gradual pull out. It was much nicer on the passengers. This was such an improvement that the Pennsylvania Railroad expanded its electrical service to Washington DC and Harrisburg PA. The Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) had plans to expand the service to Pittsburgh and Chicago but the Great Depression and WWII intervened.

During the 1930s Diesels started to come into play to replace Steam Locomotives. Diesels are actually Diesel Electrics, i.e. the diesel engines run generators that provide electrical power to the electric motors on the drive wheels. This permitted Diesels to have the same smooth operating features of an eclectic drive system without having to install the wiring or making sure they is sufficient electrical generation for the electrical locomotives. Thus any expansion of the electrical system for the PRR died right after WWII.

Amtrak inherited the electrical locomotives from the PRR and ran them till they were replaced by new electrical engines in the late 1970s. Conrail ran electrical locomotives, but slowly eliminated them till they were all gone by 1981. The wires are still up and usable, the issue is the willingness of the railroads to use the over head wires NOT if they could. i.e. is Norfolk Southern (the current owners of the above tracks) willing to run electrical locomotives instead of diesels?

Now, electrical locomotives were NOT restricted to the Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR). The Cascade Tunnel in Washington State was electrified from its opening in 1929 till 1956, when it was converted to diesel. It is limited to 28 trains a day, do to the ventilation needed for removing the diesel fumes (Thus if a higher number of trains are needed, it would have to be converted back to electricity).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Tunnel

List of former electrified Railroads in the US, most were electrified after 1900, and converted over to diesels in the 1950s:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_electrification_in_the_United_States