Is there a market for Vegan Fast Food?

[Taverner]

Seriously, Vegetarians and Vegans are as time pressed as everyone else. And sometimes putting together a vegan nutritional meal can be a serious PITA. Especially when you have no time.

So here's my idea: Vegan Fast food. Veggie Burgers, grilled and fried, french fries and spinach salads.

Soy milkshakes (or rice, I actually think rice would taste better,) Horchata, and Zevia cola on tap.

Onion rings, Veggie Pizzas, a veggie version of the "McRib" (there's hardly any meat in the McD's version anyway...) and of course, soy cheese, vegan thousand island, and vegan buns

Your thoughts?

[villager]

1. Been waiting for this for years.

Can imagine, though, it would probably start in SF and/or LA. Portland, perhaps.

Maybe NY?

Certain geographies may be resistant to the idea...

[Taverner]

2. SF and Berkeley as test markets, maybe El Lay (Venice or Santa Monica)

My thoughts would be it would have to be AS INEXPENSIVE as McDonalds, if not less

[Taverner]

3. Although there is one thing about NYC...

Absolutely everything exists there. EVERYTHING.

If it can exist, it does or will...

[LiberalElite]

42. Here's what we have now in NYC-

there was an attempt at a fast food chain in midtown Manhattan several years ago. I don't recall the name. I don't think it lasted more than a year but I don't know why.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+fast+food+nyc&rlz=1C1AFAB_enUS444&oq=vegan+fast+food+nyc&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l4.3203j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=122&espv=210&q=vegan+fast+food+nyc&start=10

[Bluenorthwest]

4. Every falafel ever sold tells you there is such a market.

nt

[mwrguy]

5. There was a great place in San Diego in the 90s called 'Faque Burger'

Sadly it went under.

[Taverner]

6. My guess is wrong location

I could only see that doing well on Mission Beach

Perhaps in Venice, however...or Santa Monica

[mwrguy]

9. Hillcrest seems like a good place for one

Granted, it's been years since I lived there.

[State the Obvious]

7. We have Veggie Grill in California

Los Angeles, Orange County, San Diego....and I believe in Seattle. They are expanding. (IMO the food is very good.)

Google "Veggie Grill" for more info (menus etc.)

[villager]

10. Veggie Grill ain't bad -- but is it exactly the template Taverner was calling for?

i.e., that direct McDonald's competition -- price-point wise, etc. -- without the assault on the Earth?

Of course, that degree of meat and dairy consumption can only take place -- at those prices -- with government collusion and subsidy...

[State the Obvious]

12. Here you go...

http://www.veggiegrill.com

[Taverner]

14. Much more upscale than I would want to do

And my idea of a veggie burger would be one that tastes an awful lot like beef

I know this can be done - this weekend I made a portobello, lentil, soy burger (and just a touch of liquid smoke) that tasted EXACTLY like beef.

[CrispyQ]

17. Was the texture the same?

Did you post the recipe? I would love to have a beef like patty to try out on my meat eating family.

[Taverner]

18. Sure! You need a food processor

equal parts lentils and tofu (firm), then add the same amount of that in portobellos

Process the food, adding soy sauce (not salt), pepper and just a small amount of liquid smoke. Add any other spices you like. I like to add paprika and onion powder

Form into patties, grill and serve. Consider using a mesh to keep them together - they don't 'solidify' until cooked

[CrispyQ]

20. Thanks!

I have a bil who is open minded enough to try vegan stuff & give his honest assessment. Often times its the texture that he comments on. I love lentils & portobellos.

[Taverner]

21. That is why you have to seriously liquify the "meat"

You don't want chunks of portobello or lentils in there

[Taverner]

13. Yes - I wouldn't want to compete with veg restaurants

I would want to compete with McDonalds, Burger King and Taco Bell

[Taverner]

8. There is also this in the East Bay

http://natures-express.com/

[SummerSnow]

11. There's a place in Brooklyn, NY..

called Foodswings. Its Vegan fastfood. Its a burger joint , well vegan burger. Its on Grand Street. I'm not a vegan but I have been there with my aunt who is a vegan. Food is good. Oh they have a website too check out the menu

[CrispyQ]

15. There was a veggie burger place in Boulder several years ago.

I think it went under. The burgers & fries were really good, but they were expensive. Not fast food prices, at all.

This isn't fast food, but it's vegan. I've been here twice & it was good:

http://www.nativefoods.com/

Twister Wrap & Ensalada Azteca Salad were excellent. And the sweet potato fries are fantastic, as are the regular French fries.

[kestrel91316]

16. There is a new healthy fast food (upscale) coming to my neighborhood soon but i can't remember

the name of the chain, lol.

Here they are: Lyfe Kitchen http://lyfekitchen.com/

They aren't vegan or even vegetarian, per se, but their menu has plenty of vegan and vegetarian options. I am excited and plan to try them as soon as they open.

Here is their vegan/vegetarian manu: http://restaurant.lyfekitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/LYFE_V_FallF.pdf

[CrispyQ]

19. Corn chowder with cashew cream, oh my!

Their menu looks great. I'm really hungry. This whole thread has me wishing I'd gone to the grocery store yesterday so I could whip something up.

[FirstLight]

22. I always thought this was possible,

Hummus pitas or wraps with veggies, ricebowls, smoothies, etc...just grab & go veggie yumminess. If I had a million and ANY idea of how to run a restaurant, I'd do it!

[Taverner]

23. I think we can do even better. We can make a veggie burger that tastes better than beef

I have been to India. At their McDonalds they have a Big Mac tailored towards Vegetarians called the Maharajah Mac. You would never know this isn't a Big Mac.

And there was no meat. Until they started using chicken in it.

Therefore, the ultimate burger in the world can be made of lentils, tofu and portobellos. And perhaps some wood ear mushrooms as well.

[FirstLight]

25. yes!

...and can I just say I love your sig-pic?

[Taverner]

27. Bill Hicks was the man!

Ever seen a Gideon? I'm going to catch one someday...

[Beringia]

43. Agree 100%

I think a veggie burger could outdo McDonald's easily. If you really taste a burger, it is not much of a taste, grilled taste, fat taste.

Also I think putting a little fat into a veggie burger would be okay. I think veggie and vegan often try to be ultra healthy too, when with fast food, you don't usually care too much about how much fat there is.

[StrayKat]

24. My thoughts. . .

There is a definite market for this, and there are places that already do this. Not enough of them, but they definitely exist. You can search Happy Cow to see what's in your area.

I think more vegan and vegetarian places would be great, even better would be healthy vegan/vegetarian fare instead of the junk food. You can actually get vegan fast food/junk food easily and without much effort now. Even mainstream places like Burger King offer veg burgers. McDonald's has veggie burgers and wraps outside the US. French fries are often vegan/vegetarian (but, not McDonald's) . Little Caesar's and Papa John's (I know, I know!) are vegan if you order veggies, no cheese (Pizza Hut is not). Most Chinese restaurants will fry or sautee tofu and veggies. Vegetarian dishes are easy to find at Indian places, but vegan harder because of wide use of ghee and butter. California Tortilla carries vegetarian (easily made vegan) burritos.

It's not as easy to find healthy vegan food. But, still, baked potatoes and salads at Wendy's and Roy's. Some fast food restaurants are starting offer fruit and fruit cups. You can often get vegan/veg toppings on sandwiches at Subway and other sandwich shops. Bagel shops have started carrying hummus, so even healthy, filling breakfasts can be had.

There are also many places that don't cater to vegetarians or vegans specifically, but you can order off-menu. Get a salad, hold the cheese. Substitute tofu for meat at many Asian restaurants. Ask for a spinach enchilada instead of chicken at Tex Mex places, etc. If you're really stuck, you can make a meal out of two or three sides -- baked potatoes, sauteed veg, beans, rice, fries, bread, etc.

Asking for these kind of substitutions and additions at mainstream places also lets them know there's a market for veg food.

[Taverner]

26. Healthy sounds great on paper, but it has trouble selling

And the fact that it is REALLY hard to get excited over spinach greens. Maybe you do, but I can't.

If a Vegan FF place is to proliferate (and that would be my goal, far over making money) it would have to compete with Burger King, McDonalds, etc.

Veggie burgers can be made to be BETTER tasting than Beef Burgers

Even that "beef flavor" - you can get that from a variety of mushrooms

The beef flavor in McDonalds Vegetable Oil? It comes from mushrooms.

People don't want to eat Buckwheat Groats over Daikon Salads with a sprig of cilantro

People want food that tastes like food

This, I think, is one of the biggest things holding back the general population from going veg

Accessible and good tasting veg food

And the Health Browbeaters aren't helping things any. Just because THEY love the taste of kale shakes doesn't mean everyone else will

Add to this that once you stop eating meat, you can be much more liberal with MSG and salt - and there is no reason why a Vegan FF place wouldn't just do well, they would PROLIFERATE the nation

[StrayKat]

33. I think there is a market for this, and if that's your goal, you could potentially do very well.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm a bit confused about your goal. You seem to be very down on the health aspect of vegetarianism. Are you interested in getting more people to eat vegetarian because of animal rights? World hunger? Which goal of vegetarianism do you think 'health nut' veggers hurting?

Personally, I usually choose to go to vegetarian/vegan restaurants when I do go out, but I would be unlikely to patronize a place that only serves the fat and salt laden junk you're proposing. As I pointed out, I can easily get that already almost anywhere.

Some things that might be worth considering before completely discarding healthy options:

1. Although people go vegan/vegetarian for a variety of reasons including animal rights, economics, social concerns, poor cooking skills, and fashion, health reasons are still at the top of the list. Carrying only high salt, high fat items that "taste good" could alienate a considerable section of the market. Being the place that all members of a group can find something that suits their needs has advantages. Even though they are far from the most popular item, McDonald's keeps salads on the menu for a reason. Salads and oatmeal contribute to indirect sales.

2. If you hope to establish regular patrons, it might be wise to have a few items that are healthy enough to eat daily. The food you describe is often considered 'transitional food' by many long-term vegans and vegetarians. It has great appeal to people dabbling in vegetarianism and who may still crave bulky food with meaty texture or flavors, but often loses its appeal as people become more accustomed to the vegetarian foods and lifestyle.

3. Tasty doesn't have to mean unhealthy. In the same way that vegetable dishes can be made more appealing than meat dishes to meat eaters, so can lower salt and fat dishes be made more appealing to people who are unaware of their salt and fat consumption.

4. One of the biggest disappointments to me when I find vegetarian restaurants is to discover that their idea of vegetarian is "no meat" instead of "high veg". If "no meat" were really the only thing I were looking for, I could just hold the burger on the big Mac and pick the pepperoni off the pizza from the local take out.

[ginnyinWI]

31. Noodles and Co.

You can get a tofu option instead of meat in any of their dishes.

[StrayKat]

34. Yup, yup.

There are many more places, too.

Just being vegetarian without health concerns, allergies, or veganism keeps getting easier as more places expand their menus.

[MADem]

28. The market is evolving within existing franchises.

See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/magazine/yes-healthful-fast-food-is-possible-but-edible.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Taverner]

29. True, but all these places are just doing "me too"

I want to make something that is better tasting than the usual FF burger

One that people would rather eat on flavor than an In-N-Out burger

[ginnyinWI]

32. The problem is getting past people's attitudes.

They 1) don't believe anything vegetarian can ever taste as good as meat and 2) they believe they are not getting "real" protein and will somehow become protein deficient if they keep it up!

[MADem]

35. The challenge in making these kinds of places viable is that

vegetarians/vegans don't always travel in exclusive packs. In my experience, if I am in a crowd of five or ten family members or friends, there will be one, two tops, that want a vegetarian option to the point of going to a vegetarian or vegan restaurant and ordering off an exclusively vegetarian menu.

If I were developing foods that had utility in the fast food market, I'd go for something that was frozen/pre-prepared but could be adapted for the larger franchise market, sort of like the partnership Burger King has in UK with Gardenburger and a Morningstar Farms-type variety of soyburger (that appeals to the "No Cow" crowd over that way).

In major cities you're going to probably find enough people to keep an exclusively vegetarian place afloat, but as a national chain I think it's a much tougher sell. I think you get more impact by partnering with an existing outfit rather than trying to go one's own way.

[DonCoquixote]

30. yes

Evos in Tampa is one. It sells organic veg versions of fast food, and I swear to god it is actually GOOD. Also the reason you see Indian food is because many people use it as a vegan cuisine.

[Codeine]

36. A favorite local fast food chain here in inland SoCal

is called Baker's -- they have a fairly extensive vegetarian menu in many of their locations owing to the fact that their first restaurants were located in heavily-Seventh Day Adventist areas.

The mixed menu gives my family the opportunity to occasionally eat fast food together -- veg for me and omni for the rest of the gang.

[mucifer]

37. It would do well here in Chicago

We have 3 "Native foods" franchises and lots of vegetarian and vegan restaurants in many different neighborhoods. It's not the Chicago of my youth, that's for sure.

[flvegan]

38. Evos. n/t

[LeftyMom]

39. Sunflower Drive In in Fair Oaks makes the best vegan fast food.

Not generally fast though, because hippie time. But I travel a lot and lawd knows I eat a lot and I may be biased but it's the best, I promise.

[pothos]

40. Did anyone mention Orean's?

in pasadena (california). ironically, it's right next to a mcdonalds.
sorta exactly what you're describing. one caveat-- they used to claim certain items were vegan but they got busted lying about it.
http://www.oreanshealthexpress.com/

[Beringia]

44. Would be nice if Mcdonald's made a veggie burger

Burger King does, but I am not crazy about it.

[RebelOne]

45. No vegetarian restaurants here where I live in North Georgia.

I live northwest of Atlanta, but I think there are a few in the Atlanta area.