10 Ways Israel Is Just Like Saudi Arabia

[Purveyor]

On the surface, it would seem that Saudi Arabia and Israel would be the worst of enemies and indeed, they have never had diplomatic relations. After all, the Saudis have championed the cause of the Palestinians, who are oppressed by the Israelis. Israelis say they are besieged by Muslim extremists, and many of these extremists are motivated by the intolerant, Wahhabi ideology, born and bred in Saudi Arabia.

But beneath the surface, these two old adversaries actually have a lot in common and have become the strangest of bedfellows.

--clip
Here are some traits Saudi Arabia and Israel have in common.

1. Both oppress the non-dominant groups living in their borders. Israel oppresses Palestinians, building settlements on their land and surrounding their villages with apartheid walls and heavily-armed soldiers. Saudi Arabia has set up a political and judicial system that oppresses everyone who is not Sunni (like Shia and non-Muslims), as well as women and millions of migrant workers. Both nations respond to political dissidents in similar ways, using excessive force, arbitrary and indefinite detention, impunity, intimidation, and torture.

2. Israel and Saudi Arabia have invaded neighboring lands, killing thousands of civilians. Israel has been invading and bombing Gaza since 2008; in 2014 alone the Israeli military killed 2,104 people, mostly civilians, destroyed 17,200 homes and left 475,000 living in emergency conditions. The Saudis have interfered in the internal affairs of neighboring Yemen. In March 2015, they launched a vicious bombing campaign, killing over 6,000 Yemenis, mostly civilians, hitting markets, schools, hospitals, residences and wedding parties, and displacing over 2.5 million people. Both use weapons that have been internationally banned: Israel used white phosphorus in Gaza; Saudis used cluster bombs in Yemen.

more...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/medea-benjamin/ten-ways-israel-is-just-like-saudi-arabia_b_9906412.html

[King_David]

1. Medea Benjamin? Really? Seriously?

LOL




Iran New Horizon Conference Draws U.S. Anti-Semites, Holocaust Deniers



Medea Ben­jamin par­tic­i­pat­ing in the 2nd New Hori­zon Con­fer­ence in Tehran


http://blog.adl.org/international/iran-new-horizon-conference-draws-u-s-anti-semites-holocaust-deniers

Nuff Said

[aranthus]

2. Sometimes it's good to know what the crazies think. n/t

[Scootaloo]

4. Fine sign that you have no useful rebuttal to the points raised.

[aranthus]

5. That's because it's BS on its face to all but the haters.

From an obvious biased nutball source. It's not worth anyone's time to post a point by point rebuttal or to read it, and the haters aren't going to be moved one inch.

[Scootaloo]

6. Everything I read in this group is from some heavily biased nutball or another

Is this one actually wrong on anything? Everything? If so, please demonstrate. 'Cuase right now I have one nutball saying "Don't believe that nutball!" and I find that very unconvincing.

[shira]

8. Not from participants who attend Holocaust Denying conferences in Iran...

But that's what makes good anti-zionists respect Medea even more - correct?

I think her greatest lie in this article is pretending Israelis and Jews of Israel are under zero threat from Palestinians & that all they do is oppress Palestinians because they can or because they're sadistic, racist SOB's.......just like Saudi Arabia oppresses women, gays, and non-muslims due to irrational hatred.

When people resort to lies like that, it's due to Jew hatred.

[oberliner]

12. You are smart enough to see the game Medea is playing, I would think

1. An honest comparison of the treatment of the "non-dominant groups" in Israel and Saudi Arabia. In the Saudi section, Media mentions women. Women in Israel are treated very differently than women in Saudi Arabia. It is a night and day difference between the two countries on that score. Even if Medea wishes to say that Israel treats Palestinian citizens of Israel the way Saudi Arabia treats women that would be preposterous. Basically this paragraph, on the Israeli side, isn't talking about anything within Israel itself or the way Israel treats any of its citizens (be they Jewish, Muslim, Christian, what have you), but rather talking about the Occupied Territories (and actually only the West Bank, since she talks of settlements and there are no settlements in Gaza). So it's not really a demonstration of any way that Israel is "just like Saudi Arabia". In fact, by bringing up women, she is actually highlighting one of the many ways that Israel is nothing like Saudi Arabia.

2. Both countries have engaged in military conflicts with neighbors. That's true. But that is true of most of the countries in that region. In fact, Israel has itself been invaded by its neighbors since it came into being as a country on several occasions. If she had said they are both strong military powers in the Middle East, that would have been a more reasonable way to make a comparison.

3. This one is just preposterous. The role that Islam plays in Saudi Arabia is not at all similar to the role that Judaism plays in Israel. I hope we can at least agree on that score.

4. This is just Medea trying to be cute. Israel training police officers in the US is akin to Saudi Arabia spreading Wahhabism across the Middle East and North Africa? These are not similar.

5. Yes, they both hate Iran. The list of countries that are not keen on Iran is pretty long, though.

6. This is BS. Not only in the descriptors she uses to talk about what happened in Egypt (a much larger discussion) but also the claim that Israel gave support to the coup is conspiracy theory nonsense.

7. Speaking of conspiracy theory nonsense, Israel does not support Al-Nusra. I wonder what Medea would say if wounded Syrians who were brought to Israeli hospitals were refused treatment and left to die.

8. This again shows the preposterous nature of Medea's little game. That she can even imply that Saudi Arabia's beheading of children is in some way equivalent to Israel holding some Palestinian minors in prison is just bizarre, even for her.

9. AIPAC, as you know, is an American organization. Only American citizens can be members. But, yes, every country lobbies the US for favorable treatment.

10. This one is true. They are both US allies. (As is the UK, Canada, France, etc.)

[Scootaloo]

14. I just wanted to see someone make an effort for rebuttal

Instead of "MUUUU, A PERSON I DISLIKE, SO IT'S ALL WRONG, MUUUUU"

Intellectual rigor, guys.

1) She does not argue that htey are treated equally bad in both nations. Only that both nations mistreat thir minority populations.

2) As I've shown often enough, Israel has never been invaded. It has fought off nations attempting to reclaim territory that it occupies, but Israel's borders have not been crossed by an invading force.

3) Again, she is not saying Saudi Arabia's Islamic govenrment and Israel's Jewish chauvinism are identical. She's saying that the respective religions have a active, government-sponsored hand in things that fuck people over.

4) In the sense that both are exporting methods of violent rtepression? Yes. Did you read hte article, and what it says? You seem to be working really hard to be ignorant of its contents.

5) True, though she brings up a salient point - both Israel and Saudi Arabia are putting hteir all in to scuttle any thaw between the US and Iran. More Saidi Arabia on that score, and I'm of mind that ISrael's interest in Iran comes mostly from their under0the-table hand-holding with hte saudis.

6) First off, el-Sisi seized power in a violent coup. When the military barges into the legislature, seixes hte president, murders thousands of Cairenes, rapes protestors, jails journalists, and tortures the political opposition in secret prision while a general appoints himself president, that's called a violent coup. And yes, ISrael did give their moral support to el-Sisi. The only "BS" in her claim is the notion that Egypt's collusion with Isrel to fuck Gaza is a new thing under el-Sisi. Mubarak did it too, and so did Morsi. Funny thing, those treaty obligations. You.. .do know that Gaza's borders are part of the Egypt-Israel treaty, right? Maybe not, you don't know that a military junta seizing power from an elected govenremtn and murdering its opposition is a coup...

7) Medea actually sources hte claim of Israel aiding wounded al-Nusra fighters. Also there's the plain reality that any action against Damascus directly strengthens the next most powerful force - which happens to be al-Nusra. and Israel has a habit of running operations against Syrian forces and movements in Syria. So.. there is direct aid, and there is indirect aid. You can note that it makes no sense for Israel to help nutbag wahhabists next door... but then I'd have to point out that Israel funded and armed Hamas back in the day, in the hopes of knocking over the PLO. Israel's got a track record, basically.

8) She - again - does not say that imprisonment and beheading are the same. That's you, and the game YOU'Re playing, Oberliner. She's illustrating that both nations see children as "fair targets" of their oppression.

9) Actually, no, not every country has a lobby group in the US. Most seem to feel that diplomatic ties are functional enough, and hardly have the sort of money and desperate interest in what Americans think of them as Saudi Arabia and Israel do. Possibly because unlike Israel and Saudi Arabia, most other nations are not completely and utterly dependent on American largess to function or even exist. Those other nations which have lobby groups are certainly nowhere near as successful and influential as these two nations, either, so bringing them up is sort of like Dubya's "you forgot poland!" line. No, it's just not relevant to the topic.

10) Yup.

So, it seems that all your complaints... are things you want her to have said, that she didn't actually say. Primarily in the sense of equating things that she never actually equated/ Drawing parallels is not saying "THESE ARE EXACTLY THE SAME," only that they have similar qualities. More stems from your own lack of understanding of what's going on - you don't know what a coup is, you're studiously unaware of Israeli involvement in Syria, and you somehow have the notion that AIPAC and the Albanian-American Civic League are on equal footing.

I think her conclusion is pretty spot-on:

Some say it is good for Israel and Saudi Arabia to bury the hatchet and find common ground. But peace in the Middle East will not be furthered by Israeli-Saudi collaboration. Israel has to make peace with the Palestinians; Saudi Arabia has to come to terms with Iran. Otherwise, Saudi-Israeli collusion will only be a fatal embrace that causes more heartbreak for the region.

[oberliner]

16. Remember, the title of the piece is "10 Ways Israel is Just Like Saudi Arabia"

So already with number one, you seem to be at least acknowledging that this does not represent a way that Israel is just like Saudi Arabia.

With number two, you are just wrong.

TEL AVIV, May 15, 1948 (UP) -- The battle for Palestine was on today with troops from Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq converging against the Jewish defenders of the new state of Israel.

Arab planes bombed Tel Aviv three times and one Egyptian pilot was taken prisoner when his plane was forced down just north of the new Jewish capital.

The Egyptian government in Cairo announced officially that Egyptian planes raided the newborn state of Israel in the forefront of an Arab attack from all sides, including one raid on a Jewish airdrome outside Tel Aviv.

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1948/05/15/Arab-nations-Attack-Israel/6118818754330/

3. The headline of the article, again, is "10 Ways Israel is Just Like Saudi Arabia"

4. That's what I meant by "being cute".

5. OK

6. That's one way to look at it.

7. Israeli physicians treat injured people. Even those who attempt suicide attacks against Israeli civilians. That doesn't mean they are supporting suicide attacks. It's preposterous to say Israel is supporting Al-Nusra (though I certainly understand why certain folks try to spread this idea).

And, of course, you know that when Israel supported Hamas they were a charitable religious organization that had not yet embraced terrorism, while the PLO, on the other hand, was hijacking planes and killing Israeli athletes for decades. Each group evolved in different directions, and Israel responded accordingly.

8. What is the title of her article again?

9. True, not every country. A bunch do.

10. Yes, and the US has a whole lot of allies.

I bet I could make a list of "10 Ways Bernie Sanders is Just Like Donald Trump" in the same BS way that Medea created this list, which isn't a list at all but just anti-Israel propaganda (as the above would be just anti-Bernie Sanders propaganda).

This thing is a BS game that Medea is playing. Israel is not just like Saudi Arabia. Every rational person knows this.

[shira]

22. Yes, 10 ways Bernie Sanders is just like Donald Drumpf would be the best rebuttal here.

Last edited Fri May 13, 2016, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

Here are a few articles like that...

http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2016/01/what-bernie-sanders-and-donald-trump-have-in-common/422907/
http://www.npr.org/2016/02/08/465974199/what-do-sanders-and-trump-have-in-common-more-than-you-think
http://reason.com/archives/2015/08/10/bernie-sanders-and-donald-trump-ties
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-similarities-between-Bernie-Sanders-and-Donald-Trump

[azurnoir]

36. I hear Trump is very popular in Israel-Bernie not so much end of story

[shira]

40. Hillary would win over Trump in Israel. In America, maybe not. End of story. n/t

[azurnoir]

43. would she? most Israeli's feel Trump would do better with Bibi

[King_David]

53. She is not credible

She mixes with antisemites , she attends Antisemitic conference.... She has nothing she can add to this discussion.
She should not be given any more air to breathe on this topic as David Duke who attended identical conferences in the same place.

She should not be posted on a site like DU.

[shira]

54. Apparently we need to break down David Duke's clownish arguments now....

And if we refuse to do so, it's because we can't.

[MariaThinks]

52. Well thought out. thank you. Scary that so many people argue the opposite

[King_David]

13. I wouldn't bother if Donald Trump wrote it either. nt

[Scootaloo]

15. I don't think Donald Trump can write.

Those little fingers, you know. Like Deadpool's baby-hand.

[6chars]

3. The poster should be ashamed

But is not. Hiding behind a name that suggests "what are you blaming me for, I was only purveying" We know what the poster purveys.

[shira]

7. The poster said "godspeed" to terrorists so this OP is par for the course. n/t

[Purveyor]

9. Come on. Quit being so lazy and at least provide a link...

[oberliner]

11. Palestinian woman stabs Israeli man in Jerusalem, is shot

Star Member Purveyor (28,146 posts)
1. Sounds like the Palesinians have finally had their fill of apartheid. Godspeed to them... eom

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134114701

[azurnoir]

29. so apparently you consider "Palestinians" to be terrorists? Because that's what the comment said

[oberliner]

30. Poster seemed to be wishing "godspeed" in response to a Palestinian stabbing an Israeli civilian

The post seemed like it was expressing support for Palestinians who are fed up and therefore taking to stabbing Israelis.

Those Palestinians who take to stabbing Israeli civilians are terrorists, in my view. Do you not concur?

[azurnoir]

31. he said it reference to Palestinians attitude towards Israeli apartheid policies in the West Bank

which is indeed fed up

[shira]

33. LoL at your covering for another DU's support of terror vs. Israelis. n/t

[oberliner]

35. The OP it was posted in response to was: "Palestinian woman stabs Israeli man in Jerusalem, is shot"

A teenage Palestinian woman stabbed an Israeli man near the Lions’ Gate of the Old City of Jerusalem on Wednesday morning and was then shot at the scene.

[azurnoir]

37. yes it was but the comment made no reference to that only to the feelings in general of Palestinians

living under the yoke of Israeli occupation

[oberliner]

41. What was the "Sounds like..." in reference to?

It seems odd that it would not have had something to do with the OP to which it was posted as a response.

Doesn't the "Sounds like..." refer back to the OP? Otherwise what was that in response to?

[azurnoir]

44. the overall atmosphere over East Jerusalem at least that's how I read it

last October when the comment was made the issues surrounding East Jerusalem were at the for front

[King_David]

46. You think anyone takes that excuse you give for a poster supporting terrorism against Jews serious?

Very revealing of you, and confirms what absolutely everyone thought all along about your attitude toward Jews---- and it ain't pretty.

[leftynyc]

19. So now that a link was provided

Do you have anything to say? You did, indeed wish G-dspeed to terrorists. Thank you, Oberliner - I had missed that disgusting, very telling post.

[Purveyor]

24. What is there to say. My statement is clear and self explanatory. nt

[leftynyc]

25. Yes,

it most certainly is. For everyone to see.

[6chars]

27. Where does godspeed to terrorists fit with the Democratic Party?

[leftynyc]

32. No idea

But I like these kinds of people right in front of me where I can see them.

[King_David]

47. It fits with extremist right wing bigots,

And that poster is quite proud of himself.

[oberliner]

10. 10 Ways Palestine Is Just Like Saudi Arabia

Here are some traits Saudi Arabia and Palestine have in common.

1. Both oppress the non-dominant groups living in their borders. Women in Palestine face political and social oppression, and women's rights are consistently overlooked in favour of national rights. In Palestine, homosexuality is a capital offense. Saudi Arabia oppresses women and gays, too. They both respond to political dissidents in similar ways, using excessive force, arbitrary and indefinite detention, impunity, intimidation, and torture.

2. Palestine and Saudi Arabia have invaded neighboring lands, killing hundreds of civilians. Palestine has been invading and bombing Israel for decades. According to B'Tselem, as of July 10, 2005, 821 Israeli civilians have been killed by Palestinians since the signing of the Oslo Accords. The Saudis have interfered in the internal affairs of neighboring Yemen. In March 2015, they launched a vicious bombing campaign, killing over 6,000 Yemenis, mostly civilians, hitting markets, schools, hospitals, residences and wedding parties, and displacing over 2.5 million people. Both use weapons that have been internationally banned: Palestinians have used suicide bombings against civilians in Israel; Saudis used cluster bombs in Yemen.

3. Religion plays a key role in the politics of both nations. In Palestine, Islamic law forms the basis of the Basic Laws that serve in place of a constitution. Since Islam is the official religion of the PA, Islamic institutions and places of worship receive preferential treatment while Christians face daily discrimination and are treated as second-class citizens. For example in 2012, a group of 50 young Muslim teenagers attacked a Christian residential complex in Bethphage, throwing rocks, smashing cars and windows and injuring several residents. In Saudi Arabia, Mecca is the holiest city for Muslims and the Saudi kingdom considers itself the global center of Islam. Only Muslims can become Saudi citizens and the non-Muslims are treated like second-class citizens.

And so on....

Anyone can play the Medea Benjamin BS game.

[leftynyc]

20. Well done (n/t)

[Little Tich]

17. Interesting OP, but I think a better comparison would be with Apartheid South Africa in the occupied

territories, and the US Jim Crow laws in Israel.

[shira]

18. Interesting? It's written by an unhinged liar who attended Iran's....

Last edited Fri May 13, 2016, 06:34 AM - Edit history (1)

....Holocaust Denial conference with a Who's who list of gutter antisemites. The OP is full of lies and distortions. Is that what you find "interesting"?

Good anti-racists should be appalled, not interested.

[elljay]

28. How about apartheid laws of Islam?

You may not be aware, but the Qu'ran actual include a whole series of apartheid laws. Christians and Jews are prohibited from ruling a Muslim country. Christians and Jews may not be killed if they refuse to convert, but they are assigned an extra jizya tax to penalize them and encourage conversion. People who belong to religions other than Judaism and Christianity are offered the choice of conversion or death.

[Little Tich]

45. For me, a democratic political system is necessary for creating an Apartheid system.

There must be a system of full civil rights for one ethnicity and a total lack of them for another, and a strong legal system to reinforce the difference. Most countries aren't democratic, and most of them have systematic discrimination of religious, political and ethnic groups. I wouldn't call that Apartheid, only discrimination.

If there was a Muslim country that didn't oppress its Muslim population and gave them full civil rights, while at the same time denying Christians and Jews those rights - it would be a form of Apartheid, of course. The only democratic (sort of) Muslim country I can think of is Singapore, but they discriminate quite equally.

Besides, the rules in Holy Books are only valid as far as they're obeyed and enforced.

[shira]

50. Apartheid denial. That's why you ignore/deny Lebanese Apartheid vs. Palestinians....

....where generations of Palestinians have been denied citizenship rights like being able to work in good paying professions, owning land, going to public school, and being covered by state healthcare.

So let's summarize your view on Apartheid:

1. You deny the obvious against Palestinians in Lebanon.
2. You prefer the current situation of "Israeli apartheid" vs. the Palestinians accepting any 2-state offer going back 70 years.

You're all for it despite all your bitching and moaning.

amIright?

[Little Tich]

56. Are you posting in the right thread?

This OP isn't about Lebanon...

[shira]

59. Stay on topic. It's about Apartheid vs. Palestinians....

You said it's best to compare Israel to S.Africa, so I wrote....

1. You defend Apartheid when the real genuine thing is happening to Palestinians north of Israel's border in Lebanon.
2. You prefer the current "apartheid" situation in the W.Bank over the PA/Hamas agreeing to any 2 state solution from the past couple decades.


So you're the one here supporting Apartheid.

[Little Tich]

65. I thought the OP was about comparing Israel with Saudi Arabia.

I thought a different comparison would be better, so I decided not to discuss the OP. I'm sorry if you thought that I wanted to bring up and discuss a different comparison in the thread.

[shira]

67. You brought up S.Africa and I commented on that.

You're the one who went off-track in a different direction.

I'm still waiting for your response...maybe in that other thread where I asked you for your definition of Apartheid and then dismantled your notion of Apartheid based on nationality/citizenship in the W.Bank.

[leftynyc]

21. Anyone who takes this

holocaust denying piece of crap seriously should be mocked for eternity.

[shira]

23. We are witnessing again what irrational hate has looked like for centuries....

How proven haters are taken "seriously" by people willing to be duped into joining them against the Jews.

[King_David]

60. They take it seriously because Jews are involved...

No other reason.

Precisely because it's from a "holocaust denying piece of crap" is why it's taken seriously by them.

[2naSalit]

26. ...and then some.

[shira]

34. Really? Here are many ways Bernie Sanders is just like Don Drumpf....

http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2016/01/what-bernie-sanders-and-donald-trump-have-in-common/422907/
http://www.npr.org/2016/02/08/465974199/what-do-sanders-and-trump-have-in-common-more-than-you-think
http://reason.com/archives/2015/08/10/bernie-sanders-and-donald-trump-ties
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-similarities-between-Bernie-Sanders-and-Donald-Trump

Can't wait for...."and then some".



What do you think about these articles equating Trump with Sanders?

[azurnoir]

38. better yet what do you think? especially considering Trumps popularity in Israel vs Bernie's

Yet, a recent poll found Trump was by far Israel’s favorite GOP candidate, and the second-most popular overall. A plurality even thought he would be best at “representing Israel’s interests,” better than Hillary Clinton, with her decades of advocacy at the highest levels of government.
Those numbers could rise further still, after a spate of positive coverage in Israel’s most widely read newspaper, Israel HaYom, owned by billionaire casino magnate Sheldon Adelson. After months of scant coverage, the shift is a sign that Adelson—a major force in both Israeli and American politics—is reluctantly embracing Trump.
All of this presents a major dilemma for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has worked for years to align Israel with the GOP. The party’s presumptive nominee is now being spurned by the same establishment figures, men like Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham, who make up Netanyahu’s “base” in Washington. Trump has no emotional attachment to Israel. And his success has upended the long-held belief that Republican voters care deeply about a candidate’s position on Israel.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-israel-2016-netanyahu-213748#ixzz48Z2JzdnD
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

[shira]

39. The point is the OP is crap. And Israelis prefer Hillary over Drumpf. Next! n/t

[azurnoir]

42. it's pretty much neck and neck for the 2 and Israeli's feel Trump would do better with Bibi

[King_David]

48. Piss poor attempt to change the topic about what that filth wrote about Bernie.

[azurnoir]

49. I didn't change the topic I asked what the person who posted it thought about it

apparently they didn't wish to answer that, however there was nothing there I had not read prior as I post mostly in GDP

[MariaThinks]

51. i think this pegs saudi arabia but there is no truth about Israel in this piece

another attempt of false equivalency - and another reason why Israel needs to defend itself against so many enemies and lies.

[Albertoo]

55. A challenge: let's take the crap claims of this article as if they were true

When will I see 'Divest from Saudi Arabia' groups on campuses?
Marches for the free rights of women in Saudi Arabia by keffieh-wearing students?

Nah. It's so much more comfy to blame the Israeli democracy..
Blaming Saudi could be viewed as racist. Blaming Jews is not racist.

[King_David]

57. I don't see them protesting the homophobic filth either

There's no Jews involved ....

[Albertoo]

58. You are a racist ;)

Merely reminding people that the islamic hadiths call for the death of homosexuals is bigoted, racist and altogether very, very naughty.

I guess..

[oberliner]

61. Medea has actually walked the walk with respect to Saudi Arabia

I am no fan of hers, but she has definitely raised a stink about the US-Saudi relationship.

[aranthus]

62. I'd be impressed if she devoted similar energy to beating up China over Tibet.

So far, it looks as if Saudi Arabia is merely a convenient club to use on Israel and the US. As are the Palestinians, and other minorities.

[shira]

63. Medea loves the Iranian regime, has been on PRESS-TV an awful lot...

.....and it's no secret Iran hates the hell out of Saudi Arabia & Israel.

Just your typical batshit extreme Leftist doing propaganda for the Iranian regime.

[Albertoo]

66. But not activist campus groups like BDS or SJP

[cali]

64. This is jaw.dropping poor and.awkward