Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumIsraeli girl stabbed to death by Palestinian inside bedroom
A teenage Israeli girl has been stabbed to death in an attack at a Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank.
The Israeli military said the 13-year-old, identified by local media as Hallel Yaffa Ariel, was attacked inside her bedroom in Kiryat Arba.
A security guard who responded to the incident was wounded before the attacker was shot dead by other guards.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36671991
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I don't know why people think children are fair play in this horrific ongoing conflict.
Israeli
(4,306 posts)But hey they were only Leftists ...............so who cares ???
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Your response to that is what exactly?
Israeli
(4,306 posts)...........Nine Israelis attacked in Ramallah.
Your response to that is what exactly?
You chose the headlines .....why the BBC BTW ?????
I dont recognize Kiryat Arba as part of Israel oberliner.......she wasnt an Israeli ...she was the child of settlers who chose to place her there .
Kiryat Arba is a hell hole of extremism ........almost as bad as Hevron .
I mean , come on , you want me to weep and wail for our religious right wing .....while they do their best to annihilate us ?
I weep for Hallel Yaffa Ariel as much as her parents weeped for Yitzhak Rabin.
King_David
(14,851 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)a thread about those Israeli's. How can one ignore something not posted? That you can't weep for a 13 year old girl murdered says quite a bit.
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)A 13 year old girl was stabbed to death and this is your reaction?
I am speechless.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)but I'm not. How sad is that? It's being reported that the murdered girl was an American citizen.
King_David
(14,851 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)She wasn't Israeli. She was an American. And still only 13 years old and still stabbed to death in her bed. And just fyi - the past tense of weep is wept.
Israeli
(4,306 posts).....to Kiryat Arba and why leftynyc ?????
For one reason only .....religion , and the need to reclaim Judea and Samaria as part of a Greater Israel for her god .
What was she thinking .....that all would be milk and honey , roses and wine ???
What was it Bibi said ...." Israel Will Forever Live By The Sword " ..... ????
You want to hold on to Kiryat Arba and Hevron and East Jerusalem and all the other ' Holy Places ' within the Wild West Bank ...then ...thats the price you will pay ...over and over again .
I hope she is the last innocent child that pays the price for her parents folly ....but I know she wont be .
BTW ....all of us are paying the price for the folly of our Messianic madmen ....whether born in America or home grown .
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)discuss the fact that one of abbas's aides said just a day or two before this that any Israeli should have their throat slit. I know you like to pretend the Palestinians are innocent little kittens living under the jackbooted Israeli's and that the killing of this child is very inconvenient to that narrative but it's time to suck it up. There is plenty of blame on both sides. Perhaps they should have taken the state offered to them decades ago or maybe one day they'll realize how their own leaders continually let them down while they're also screwing them over.
Israeli
(4,306 posts).....for your two week tourist trip .....which BTW you have been playing on ever since ...as if you are some kind of expert after only two weeks .
You remember what I advised ...???
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to have an opinion and I surely have never seen you take any of the Pro-P to task for having strong opinions from the US, Australia or anywhere else. Why would that be? Most of them have never stepped foot in Israel. Yes, I remember your advice and I heeded it. I didn't go near the settlements and the only time I was in Palestinian territory was in the Old City while on the Via Dolorosa.
Israeli
(4,306 posts)....to have an opinion leftynyc.......but my 66 years of living here , born to parents that were born here .....kind of out does your two week tourist trip ....dont you think ?
Quote ...."" I know you like to pretend the Palestinians are innocent little kittens ""
You know that how leftynyc ??......mind reader are we ? .....a post I might have made that stated so ???????????
If I thought " the Palestinians are innocent little kittens " would have I advised you as I did ??
You didnt go near the settlements ......why not ??
Was it because of my advive ??.....or because you knew you would be in danger ?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)for years already - I don't exactly HAVE to mind read. The settlements were not part of the tour that was put together for us - it's that simple. We were asked if we wanted to go and that's when I heeded your advice, which I had shared with the 3 others I was with, and we decided to stay away. Religious freaks get no love from me - I don't care what religion they are - although we did go to Mea Sharim - it was a few hours of a tour with a very secular guide - we made our feelings about the ultra Orthodox very plain to her. I think they're parasites in Israel - they live on welfare, don't serve in the military - all they do is take. I have no use for them whatsoever (and neither did our guide who will be sending her own children to serve in a few short years).
shira
(30,109 posts)I don't know the breakdown or percentages of decent orthodox to the absolute hilltop youth nutters, but constantly dehumanizing all orthodox settlers as if they're all drooling fanatics is something Hamas, Abbas, and their bigoted BDS fans do when they incite constantly against all - and I mean all settlers. Sure, the ultra religious fanatic messianic hilltop nutter settlers are a cancer, no doubt....but not all orthodox settlers are like that, and there are many (maybe most?) settlers who are secular.
I don't think the nutters are there only for Messianic purposes either. I can see where both religious and non-religious Jews would choose to live there because their ancestors lived on that land for thousands of years and that's their home too. They have a right to live where they want in their indigenous historic homeland, like any Native American of North America. We'd never label Native Americans nutter extremists for wanting to live somewhere their ancestors lived. We wouldn't do that to anyone else in the world.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)but those in Mea Sharim are Ultra-Orthodox fanatics. I'm not sure I shared this story at DU but I learned a very valuable lesson about not assuming all the very religious were intolerant assholes. My brother in law grew up with a guy right in Westchester County NY - from kindergarden to high school when they went their separate way to attend college and law school. The friend met his wife in Seattle, they decided to become very religious and moved to Tzfat 30 years ago. We visited them on our trip last year and we were kinda nervous about it - until we met them. They were lovely - they have 9 children and 6 grandchildren (both in their late 50s) - The wife has always worked out of the home - first she raised goats and sold the milk and cheese and now makes jewelry. They gave their children the option of serving in the military - only 1 did. But we were there for hours discussing both Israel and US politics and since my BIL's friend went to law school in the US, knows that religion is not supposed to sway any laws - only the constitution (which Israel doesn't have). They couldn't have been more welcoming to us and my BIL and his friend were like two kids in camp reminiscing. I learned a lot that night.
Like you, I don't believe all the settlers are very religious but the ones who scream the loudest certainly are (as they often are right here in the US).
Israeli
(4,306 posts)That's about as good a one as your fantasy of Arabs living on settlements .
Whats Kiryat Arba famous for shira ?......
http://www.gettyimages.com/pictures/an-ultra-orthodox-jew-kisses-the-grave-of-extremist-baruch-news-photo-184754981#an-ultraorthodox-jew-kisses-the-grave-of-extremist-baruch-goldstein-picture-id184754981
shira
(30,109 posts)The 13 year old child is completely different.
You show zero empathy for that.
It would be like your opponents here blaming an innocent Palestinian child's parents for that child's murder, showing no feeling whatsoever for the child killed, as if the child deserved it...
That's cold.
Response to Israeli (Reply #6)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
Israeli
(4,306 posts)You under the impression that we are one big family over here ????
One tribe united ???
No where near it .
BTW .....the settlers are using the death of Hallel Yaffa Ariel to push their agenda ....see :
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4822780,00.html
You got a " Wow " for that .....using the death of a child to excuse further settlement growth etc etc etc .....????
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:29 AM - Edit history (1)
Has nothing to do with excusing further settlement growth. Showing sympathy for this 13 year old girl who was murdered does not equate to support of settlements. That you have been led to believe THAT shows how detached the Israeli Left is and why it won't be coming to power anytime soon. If THAT is what the Israeli Left is - in that they couldn't really give a crap about this 13 year old girl - they don't deserve to be in power, ever.
Israeli
(4,306 posts)....for years on here shira .
You dont love us .......we dont love you .
End of story .
King_David
(14,851 posts)You can talk for them .
Especially since I'm pretty sure the vast vast vast majority are not post Zionists.... At all .
Israeli
(4,306 posts)You can keep talking for us .....................
Meanwhile our post zionists will keep talking for us ........
The Populist Right's Main Characteristic: The Desire to Silence the Forgotten People
Yitzhak Laor Jul 04, 2016
A real specter is haunting Europe the specter of populism: Brexit, Donald Trump and Alternative for Germany. Here in Israel populism has already triumphed, unchallenged. It churned through the Likud Central Committee and the settlers, removing Benny Begin and Michael Eitan, supporters of colonialism who at least respected institutions like the courts and equality before the law for Arab citizens as well. Now the mob is even trampling on Israel Defense Forces generals, the heroes of yesteryear.
The main characteristic of the populist right is the desire to crush all institutions, including the discourse of civil and human rights by the victims of course, the forgotten people. Coherence is unimportant; another major characteristic of populism is zigzagging between arguments.
Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman is our ultimate exemplar, but whoever examines the speed with which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu moved from objecting to opening the files of the Yemenite children to supporting it will recall that this populism was created when the good boy from upper-class Rehavia came to the Likud and changed it in the name of fighting the elites. Whoever listens to the rhetoric of Miri Regev can find what newspaper readers in the West are still having a hard time digesting: the appeal to the mob via incitement, i.e. the verbal trampling of institutions, as Shakespeare prophesied about the nature of the mob in an age of ego. It doesnt matter what the leader in power said two hours before, because two hours hence he will give me the supreme pleasure by sticking it to the institutions, the elites, or to the minorities. Like.
Lets leave the EU as an institution that the British have sought to trample and dont know now how to get out of, with Labour falling apart as a result of Conservative maneuvering. Take our miserable country and its main news channel its not New Zealand here, or Canada, but a country in an ongoing political crisis. What does it deal with? Night after night it tries to ingratiate itself. Watch as Facebook sets the agenda, in a way it doesnt (yet) in the West, as it quashes all talk of rights, from the right to be presumed innocent to the right to have water in the occupied territories, and see how deeply populism has seized control here.
And there is no populism other than that of the right, which is always shallow and comes from the powers that be, and look at the rhetoric of the struggle against it in the name of the victim, the people. Here we come to the dying left. Some of the slogans that serve right-wing politicians are also popular among the radical left incitement against Mapai, which has been out of power for 40 years; a certain strain of feminism, and the betrayal of the refugees. Beyond this theres a very large public of people who honestly call themselves the left, but they have no institution to turn to for the language of opposition, even though there is no other way to dissent.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.728925
Israeli
(4,306 posts)Israel is seeing a worrying resurgence of attempts to curtail and suppress dissent, particularly among anti-occupation and human rights activists. That process does not take place in a vacuum.
By Michael Schaeffer Omer-Man |Published July 4, 2016
Source : http://972mag.com/how-israel-is-turning-anti-occupation-activists-into-dissidents/120425/
Israeli
(4,306 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Horrific.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That's how this story was reported in Ma'an News.
The first sentence of the news article begins this way:
"A Palestinian teenager was killed on Thursday morning in an Israeli settlement in the southern occupied West Bank..."
The closing paragraph criticizes the Israelis forces for shooting the Palestinian who stabbed the girl.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)are calling the murderous scum a martyr:
The teen murderer was hailed as a "martyr" by official PA media, who failed to note . Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah party tweeted praising "the martyr Mohammad Tarayrah, who carried out the operation today that resulted in the killing of a settler and in the injuring of another."
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/I-want-to-die-Kiryat-Arba-terrorist-wrote-on-Facebook-prior-to-attack-459170?utm_source=newsletter+30-06-2016&utm_campaign=newsletter_30_6
They're callling a 13 year old girl a settler who presumably deserved what she got. THIS is what so many here want the Israeli's to forgive, get beyond and try and make peace with (vomit)
shira
(30,109 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)for that to someone who thought it was bullshit (or just wanted to make sure before they were outraged).
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:57 AM - Edit history (1)
....defending Al-Aqsa".
https://twitter.com/LahavHarkov/status/748521948628590592
shira
(30,109 posts)Hitler admiration is on terrorists' Facebook timeline.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"This kid wanted to attack the settlement, but the occupation is responsible for killing him and for the death of this young girl."
shira
(30,109 posts)....because that's the narrative and by golly they will stick to that no matter what.
Because sure, the terrorist "martyr" just wants a 2 state solution...
Response to oberliner (Original post)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to 6chars (Reply #22)
6chars This message was self-deleted by its author.
shira
(30,109 posts)A New York Times video segment entitled "Reactions to West Bank Stabbing" includes an interview with the mother of a Palestinian terrorist who murdered a 13-year-old girl today. But a series of mistranslations downplayed the mother's words, which showed her proud support for her son's deed.
A twitter user named Akiva Cohen flagged one error, noting that although the audio clearly captured the mother calling her son a shahid, or "martyr," the subtitle showed her saying only "son."
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2016/06/after_mother_of_terrorist_says.html