Biden to convene aides on hostage talks as new Hamas demands sink hopes for deal

[Beastly Boy]

With attempts to forge a hostage release deal seemingly adrift, US President Joe Biden was expected on Monday to convene his National Security Council to try to find a way forward to free hostages from Hamas captivity and end the fighting in the Gaza Strip.

White House officials told senior Egyptian and Qatari officials earlier Monday that the US was “frustrated” with new Hamas demands on the release of prisoners serving life sentences in Israeli prisons, which it is seeking in exchange for hostages it has held since October 7, according to a person familiar with the discussions.

The Biden administration also asked Cairo and Doha to push Hamas to back off its recent demands, according to the source, who wasn’t authorized to speak publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

The talks come after reports indicated growing pessimism in the US that a deal will be possible, with a senior US official describing new Hamas demands that terrorists serving life sentences be released for civilian hostages in the first stage as a “poison pill,” in remarks reported by the Washington Post Sunday.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-to-convene-aides-on-hostage-talks-as-new-hamas-demands-sink-hopes-for-deal/

[Eko]

1. Israel's demands to keep the Philadelphi Corridor occupied have thrown a huge wrench in the deal as well.

Egypt says it violates their 1978 Camp David Accords between Egypt and Israel.

[Beastly Boy]

2. Are you aware of what Israel's "demand" entails?

Judging from your header, you are not. But go ahead and prove me wrong: what are the specifics of Israel's demand, and what part of the Oslo accord does it violate, according to Egypt?

[Eko]

3. Yes.

bibi wants to keep troops in the corridor until a full cease fire. I don't need to answer why Egypt says it violates it for it to be true that Egypt said it.

[Beastly Boy]

4. That's Bibi's demand. Do you know what Israel's position is that Bibi accepted despite his demands?

And you didn't need to answer any of it. But if you can't, it's best not to post what you only heard from someone in Egypt you can't even identify.

[Eko]

5. Here.

Washington has publicly blamed Hamas, but U.S. and foreign officials told NBC News that new conditions introduced by Netanyahu have also held up progress, including the insistence on control of Gaza’s southern border with Egypt.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/philadelphi-corridor-explainer-israel-hamas-talks-cease-fire-gaza-rcna169274

He also said the proposal does not clearly say Israel will withdraw its forces from two strategic corridors in Gaza, the Philadelphi corridor alongside Egypt and the Netzarim corridor east to west across the territory.

Israel offers to downsize its forces in the Philadelphi corridor, with “promises” to withdraw from the area, he said.

“This is not acceptable for us and of course for Hamas,” the Egyptian official said.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/national/24534051.egypt-expresses-scepticism-gaza-ceasefire-proposal/

[Beastly Boy]

6. You shouldn't have.

No, seriously, you shouldn't have repeated what Bibi's demands are the second time. That was totally redundant, and I knew what they were even before you started.

Not that you had to go far to get the answers beyond Bibi's demands: your second source has them. All you had to do was pay attention to what you are citing. Not too much to ask for, is it?

One Egyptian official said the bridging proposal requires the implementation of the deal’s first phase, which has Hamas releasing the most vulnerable civilian hostages captured in its October 7 attack that sparked the war.

Parties during the first phase would negotiate the second and third phases with no “guarantees” to Hamas from Israel or mediators.

“The Americans are offering promises, not guarantees,” the official said. “Hamas won’t accept this, because it virtually means Hamas will release the civilian hostages in return for a six-week pause of fighting with no guarantees for a negotiated permanent ceasefire.”

------

Israel offers to downsize its forces in the Philadelphi corridor, with “promises” to withdraw from the area, he said.

You see, Israel was the only party to accept the Biden proposal. Hamas never did. And Biden's proposal stipulates that the complete withdrawal of IDF troops from Gaza is to be negotiated in Stage 2, after most hostages, alive and murdered, have been returned to Israel. Hamas, on the other hand, is demanding guarantees that all IDF troops be withdrawn from Gaza as a precondition for starting the negotiations for Step 1. They also now demand additional convicted terrorists to be released from Israeli prisons.

He also said the proposal does not clearly say Israel will withdraw its forces from two strategic corridors in Gaza, the Philadelphi corridor alongside Egypt and the Netzarim corridor east to west across the territory.

No shit! That was exactly what Biden's proposal contained and what Israel accepted! The withdrawal of IDF forces was to be negotiated for Phase 2, once Phase 1 has been agreed upon and is being implemented. The entire Philadelphi corridor arrangement was not supposed to be negotiated for Phase 1 to begin with! Bibi's "new" demands are the response to Hamas' new demands to vacate the Philadelphi corridor as a precondition for their participation in the Phase 1 of the negotiations.

But why do I even bother to focus your attention on the pesky little facts like these? I knew this. YOU were supposed to find this out for your own benefit, not mine, and you failed. Not because you lacked information (it was staring you right in the face), but because you deliberately omitted it from your consideration.

Enough of this nonsense. You have made your intentions pellucidly clear, to borrow a phrase.

[Eko]

7. But I wanted to.

Washington has publicly blamed Hamas, but U.S. and foreign officials told NBC News that new conditions introduced by Netanyahu have also held up progress, including the insistence on control of Gaza’s southern border with Egypt.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/philadelphi-corridor-explainer-israel-hamas-talks-cease-fire-gaza-rcna169274
Lines up with my statement. Israel's demands to keep the Philadelphi Corridor occupied have thrown a huge wrench in the deal as well.
You want to talk about what is in Biden's proposal and who held up progress first. My statement was not about what was in the proposal or who did not accept it first so I don't know why you are trying to have that argument. Oh wait, I do.

[Beastly Boy]

8. You wanted to be redundant?

Ok, suit yourself.

Oh wait, you just did it again...

Never mind!

[Eko]

9. Apparently I have to be redundant

Israel's demands to keep the Philadelphi Corridor occupied have thrown a huge wrench in the deal as well.
I showed where that was correct.
You then asked me if I knew what the demand entails and I showed that.
Then you said that was Bibi's demands and wanted to know what Israel accepted.
I then showed you that from an article from 09-03-24.
Washington has publicly blamed Hamas, but U.S. and foreign officials told NBC News that new conditions introduced by Netanyahu have also held up progress, including the insistence on control of Gaza’s southern border with Egypt.
That those demands from Bibi are holding up the progress. If Bibi is the one introducing new conditions on it then he is the one that is making the deal not someone else from Israel. If you have other information that is more recent feel free to share it. I am perfectly fine with being wrong and dont need to have an multi-day argument with you before you show that I am wrong.

[Eko]

10. And here is the original plan.

The three-part proposal would begin with a six-week ceasefire in which the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) would withdraw from populated areas of Gaza.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw8860gn1nwo
The corridor is just over 300 feet wide. Here is a satellite map of the area. You can clearly see the area is populated right up to the corridor by about 300 feet. If you now want to argue that keeping troops within 300 feet of a populated area does not contradict the terms of the ceasefire then I would ask you how many feet does?

[Beastly Boy]

11. This is a BBC article, silly, not the original plan.

If you ever find the full text of the original plan (I did), read it carefully, understand exactly what it says, and only then quote from it, I just might take you seriously.

Until then, sweet dreams!

[Eko]

12. You claiming something is not in the plan

without showing the plan is on par for this entire conversation. I have looked and cant find it but I did find this.
Full text of Biden’s speech laying out hostage and ceasefire deal for Israel-Hamas war
"The first phase would last for six weeks. Here’s what it would include: a full and complete ceasefire; a withdrawal of Israeli forces from all populated areas of Gaza; a release of a number of hostages — including women, the elderly, the wounded — in exchange for the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. There are American hostages who would be released at this stage, and we want them home."
Those are Biden's own words. If you have the actual text of the original plan feel free to share it.

[Beastly Boy]

13. You are messing with me, right?

Is it too much to ask that before you cite a source you read it first?

Which part of "Following is the official White House text of remarks by President Biden on the Middle East, May 31, 2024." escaped your attention?

Text of Biden's remarks, silly, not Biden's plan!

Quit humiliating yourself already!

[Eko]

14. Jeeze,

I said this.
I have looked and cant find it but I did find this.
I did not claim that was the plan at all. I actually asked you to provide the text of the plan and am still waiting for it.

[Beastly Boy]

15. How long did you look for the text of the plan?

I found it in five minutes.

I am tired of you baiting me to do the work for you. Do it yourself. The text DOES exist, and if you can't find it, this doesn't create in me a sense of obligation.

And until you find it, don't pretend you know what you are talking about. Simple as that. I, on the other hand, know what I am talking about. I have read the full text of the proposal.

If you wish to contest what I stated, do so when you get better informed on the subject.

Until then, pleasant dreams. Simple as that.

[Eko]

16. You claiming that you have evidence of something

and not providing that evidence is still just par for this entire conversation.

[Beastly Boy]

17. You yourself just admitted you don't know what you are talking about.

My possession of information that you want me to produce on your demand wouldn't change one damn thing about you not knowing what you are talking about.

To a reasonable person, this admission in itself is sufficient to shut up and bow out.

Don't be unreasonable.

[Eko]

18. From the words of the man who wrote the plan.

Today, I want to lay out its terms for the American citizens and for the world.

This new proposal has three phases — three.

The first phase would last for six weeks. Here’s what it would include: a full and complete ceasefire; a withdrawal of Israeli forces from all populated areas of Gaza; a release of a number of hostages — including women, the elderly, the wounded — in exchange for the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. There are American hostages who would be released at this stage, and we want them home.
I've shown Biden saying what you claim is not true.
Here is a video of him saying that.

Its at 3:12.
The plan could have changed, I acknowledge that. You claim to know what is in the plan. I asked for proof and you still wont show it.

[Beastly Boy]

19. Ok, now you are getting plain ridiculous

We've covered this already. See my post #13.

[Eko]

20. Sure, the words of the man who did the plan

laying out its terms is not evidence of what the plan entails. While your claim with no proof is.

[Beastly Boy]

21. Do you know what a synopsis is?

Surely you didn't expect Biden to recite the entire text of the proposal during a press conference!

Or did you? I can never tell...

[Eko]

22. Post the plan.

[Beastly Boy]

23. Not on your demand.

You might find me posting it on a polite request by a DUer who is genuinely interested in educating herself at some later time.

Or you might find it posted by a DUer who is not too lazy to look it up and generous enough to share it.

But as far as I know, you are not making the rules on DU, and I will not play by them.

[Eko]

24. Oh wait, I found it.

And it says exactly what I have been saying.

[Beastly Boy]

25. That's funny!

thanks for the laugh!

See your post #14. That's exactly what you've been saying.