For the Unthinking Fuckwit from Purgatory Iron Works and His Idiotic “Jet Fuel” Demonstration

[nationalize the fed]

December 17, 2015 by willyloman

“If it (9/11) was a conspiracy, I do not care.” Trenton Tye, Welder

OK. So we have another phony, “Redneck Dixon White” fuckwit over at Youtube, a guy by the name of Trenton Tye, who has put together a simpleton’s version of “the Truth” regarding what did or did not happen on 9/11.

Tye has taken time from his “busy day” of working on Youtube videos, a whole 2 minutes mind you, to show the public just how stupid “truthers” are when it comes to the steel in the Twin Towers. I, on the other hand, have been researching and writing about those events for the past 8 years and have published over 100 articles of my own work on the subject.

Of course, his substance-free and DEEPLY FLAWED demonstration has been latched upon by several main stream media outlets as the end-all be-all “debunking” of the Truth advocates out here who say the key evidence in the demolition of the Twin Towers rests in the melted steel...

... This article, which I will try to make into a video if my computer allows it, and which I will direct toward Tye himself, will pick his ignorant argument apart, piece by piece starting with the first thing that came out of his mouth:

1. “If it (9/11) was a conspiracy, I do not care.”

Many people do care, Tye, that’s why they spend years researching what happened that day. Because, unlike you, some of us (US) do give a shit about finding out who was responsible for the event that killed so many people in New York, Pennsylvania and DC that day and subsequently launched war after war across the Middle East killing scores more (US troops and civilians alike) and leaving 10 times that number scarred for life (US troops and civilians alike). And that’s too say nothing of the constitutional rights we all had to give up for the Patriot Act or the trillions of dollars of debt your kids will have to pay for the wars, you fucking imbecile...snip
Full: https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2015/12/17/for-the-unthinking-fuckwit-from-purgatory-iron-works-and-his-idiotic-jet-fuel-demonstration/



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Propaganda Can’t Melt Steel Beams
DigWithin | Kevin Ryan | 12/20/2015

Eleven years ago, I initiated a discussion about the fact that jet fuel fires could not have melted steel at the World Trade Center. The government agency investigating the WTC destruction responded by holding “some of its deliberations in secret.” Although it’s not a secret that jet fuel can’t melt steel, due to propaganda from sources like The Washington Post and The Huffington Post, Americans often get confused about what facts like that mean to any national discussion. In a nutshell, what it means is that the molten metal found at the WTC, for which there is a great deal of evidence, cannot be explained by the official 9/11 myth.

Today no one thinks that jet fuel fires can melt steel beams—not even The Posts’ new science champion, who doesn’t bother to actually use jet fuel or steel beams to teach us about “retarded metallurgical things.” Instead, he uses a thin metal rod and a blacksmith forge to imply that, if the WTC buildings were made of thin metal rods and there were lots of blacksmith forges there, the thin metal rods would have lost strength and this would be the result. If you buy that as an explanation for what happened at the WTC, you might agree that everyone should just stop questioning 9/11.

This absurd demonstration highlights at least two major problems with America’s ongoing struggle to understand 9/11. The first is that there was a great deal of molten metal at the WTC. Those who know that fact sometimes share internet memes that say “Jet Fuel Can’t Melt Steel Beams” when they want to convey that “Thermite Melted Steel at the WTC.” The second major problem is that certain mainstream media sources continue to put a lot of energy into dis-informing the public about 9/11.

Sources like The Posts, The New York Times and some “alternative media” continue to work hard to support the official myth of 9/11. That effort is not easy because they must do so while providing as little actual information about 9/11 as possible. The dumbing down of the average citizen is a full time job for such propagandists. Luckily for them, American students receive almost no historical context that encourages them to think critically or consider ideas that conflict with blind allegiance to their government. When it comes to the WTC, it also helps that almost 80% of Americans are scientifically illiterate...snip
Full: http://digwithin.net/

Kevin Ryan is the former Site Manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, a division of Underwriters Laboratories (UL). Mr. Ryan, a Chemist and laboratory manager, was fired by UL in 2004 for publicly questioning the report being drafted by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) on their World Trade Center investigation. In the intervening period, Ryan has completed additional research while his original questions, which have become increasingly important over time, remain unanswered by UL or NIST.

Through interviews, presentations, and his work as co-editor at the online Journal of 911 Studies, Mr. Ryan works to bring out the truth behind the events of 9/11/01 for the benefit of all people. http://ultruth.com/Kevin_Ryan.htm

[whitefordmd]

1. Wow, Kevin Ryan still humps his nonsense.

And I assume he makes a living off of it. Shame on him.

[nationalize the fed]

5. Please be more specific.

What "nonsense" is it that the former Underwriters Lab engineer is "humping"?

BTW: Stay Classy

[whitefordmd]

7. For starters when did Mr. Ryan become an engineer?

If memory serves me well, he is a chemist that managed a small water testing lab for UL.

[William Seger]

12. Ryan's nonsense

The first (major problem) is that there was a great deal of molten metal at the WTC. Those who know that fact sometimes share internet memes that say “Jet Fuel Can’t Melt Steel Beams” when they want to convey that “Thermite Melted Steel at the WTC.”

Here we go again, needing to debunk the same nonsense over and over. Since each tower had about 2,000 tons of aluminum cladding on the exterior columns plus aluminum from the planes, and since aluminum melts at a temperature well within the range of both the initial fires and the persistent underground fires, and since the fires were not hot enough to melt steel, the most probable explanation by far for any "molten metal" is that it was aluminum. There was also a lot of lead in UPS power supply batteries, so that is another possibility for some of the reports. But oddly, there are no reports of anyone seeing molten aluminum or lead -- just "molten metal" or "molten steel." So how did the few people who reported seeing "molten steel" determine that it was steel instead of aluminum or lead? The answer is they didn't, because they couldn't possibly identify molten steel on sight; they were just assuming it was steel because that was their first thought. The "truthers" are quite correct that the fires were not hot enough to melt steel, and since there is absolutely no actual evidence of molten steel, a rational person would conclude that molten steel isn't a very viable hypothesis. But as Ryan reminds us, "truthers" are not rational people: They jump on the "molten metal" claims to promote their thermite nonsense, which was invented for the sole purpose of "explaining" why the collapses didn't sound anything like a controlled demolition. But there are two huge holes in their argument: They don't have any rational explanation for how thermite could possibly keep the steel molten for weeks, or how it could possibly be steel when the measured temperatures in the debris pile were not nearly that hot. Apparently the thermite they imagine is just as magical as their silent explosives, and yet Ryan has the chutzpah to say this:

The second major problem is that certain mainstream media sources continue to put a lot of energy into dis-informing the public about 9/11.

Sources like The Posts, The New York Times and some “alternative media” continue to work hard to support the official myth of 9/11. That effort is not easy because they must do so while providing as little actual information about 9/11 as possible. The dumbing down of the average citizen is a full time job for such propagandists. Luckily for them, American students receive almost no historical context that encourages them to think critically or consider ideas that conflict with blind allegiance to their government. When it comes to the WTC, it also helps that almost 80% of Americans are scientifically illiterate...snip

What hypocrisy! Not only is Ryan apparently scientifically illiterate and incapable of rational thought, his entire life is now devoted to dumbing down the average "truther" with pseudo-scientific horseshit while carefully avoiding any factual information that might lead them to a different conclusion.

[William Seger]

2. LOL, what an idiotic rant

... but it's totally irrelevant, anyway: It's a simple, well-known fact that structural steel loses about half its strength at only 600°C, and a fire that size would certainly get at least that hot. Under load, it's also subject to "creep" deformation at only 300°C. With the plane damage and subsequent load redistribution, that's enough to explain the collapses -- no need for magical silent explosives or imaginary thermite devices, much less imaginary bullshit physics.

[wildbilln864]

3. yes your rant is idiotic!

A reservoir of jet fuel!? And a puny little i beam!? how thick was it?
Half a fucking inch?! Nothing like the WTC fires. Fucking nonsense!

[nationalize the fed]

4. How many times a day do you refresh the Creative Spec page, Billy?

"Who are you, and what do you want?" - Londo Mollari, Babylon 5

You clearly hate those of us that dare to question what we've been told. It might be helpful to this group to see what you have to say elsewhere

William Seger (6,672 posts)
85. Conspiracism is a viscous cycle of delusion

After buying into pretty much any of the conspiracy theories floating around, any evidence supporting the "official story" of any tragedy starts looking fake, and of course any hoaxing just proves there was a conspiracy, while the lack of "smoking gun" conspiracy evidence must be because the cover-up is so effective in controlling The Media, which also proves a conspiracy, otherwise what would they be trying so hard to hide. Most people just laugh this stuff off, but people really do get sucked into Alex Jones style bullshit, and if carried far enough, it eventually robs them of any ability to deal with reality on a rational basis.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027440838#post85

Maybe you and your other authoritarian buddies can all get together and have this group banned. Wouldn't matter even a tiny bit, because we'd all go somewhere else in a second. But you'd feel good, wouldn't you. Because people posting in an obscure area of a discussion board really really makes you angry. Why do some people get so angry at their fellow citizens that don't swallow everything rammed down their throat? That's a good question for professionals.

Until then, it's really too bad that you are allowed to pollute these threads. I can understand some of your frustration, as more and more people question the lies of 911 every single day. And unfortunately for you, many people around the world don't buy the official conspiracy theory. Deal with it, or, don't. No one cares.

How long do you think I'd last in the Hillary Clinton group if I stormed in there and insulted those who worship her and the articles her followers post? I wouldn't last long, would I Billy. But I don't have enough time to even try, because I have better things to do. (BTW- I'm sure you'll be interested in the fact that Rodham-Clinton's voice makes me want to drive ice picks through my eardrums. Kind of like how you don't like Andy Steel's voice)

Reminder:

Creative Speculation is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group. For detailed information about this group and its purpose, click here.

[AZCat]

6. Do you think this group is intended to be a safe haven...

for people who share your viewpoint? It doesn't really read that way to me.

[William Seger]

8. Obviously, conspiracism IS a viscous cycle of delusion

This is a forum for discussing conspiracy theories, which does not mean it's a safe haven for conspiracy bullshit, nor is it intended to be a support group for conspiracists. You are not expressing subjective opinions here, such as who to vote for; you are copying and pasting claims of fact that are either true or false, and some of us think the difference matters. Not only do you attempt to exonerate murderous terrorists but you also accuse an uncountable large number of innocent people of the murders and complicity in a cover-up, including myself, but then it turns out that those claims are actually based on ignorance, distorted facts, half truths, and imaginary physics, all strung together with faulty logic and unsubstantiated assertions. Why should DU give you a safe haven to post such bullshit? Here is the awful truth that you so desperately want to hide from: People who really want to know the truth about 9/11 deserve to know that the "truth movement" is a propaganda mill mainly driven by opportunistic hustlers like Richard Gage and promulgated around the net by gullible dupes who are too far down the delusional spiral to even attempt to understand why it's bullshit. It's the last place to find any truth because, as you and wildbill persistently demonstrate, "truthers" don't base their religion on credible evidence and sound reasoning, and they couldn't care less about truth if it contradicts their delusions.

And I can't help but notice that every time you are challenged on the bullshit you post, instead of responding to the points I make, you try to counter with a lame, psycho-babble personal attack on me. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I couldn't care less about those pathetic attempts to divert attention away from what's wrong with the idiotic nonsense you copy and paste. I'm also not much worried about people who are too stupid to figure out why you do that instead of dealing with the obvious problems with your claims. I'm pretty sure you know why you do that: because you can't do any better.

But back to the OP, which just happens to illustrate what I just said: Out here in the real world, structural steel loses half its strength at 600°C and it's also subject to "creep" deformation at only 300°C. That's just reality, supported by many decades of testing, and it just doesn't matter how much you admire that idiotic rant that you linked to. Furthermore, out here in the real world, there aren't any magical silent explosives, and THAT is the main reason why your "movement" is not (and never will be) taken seriously by informed, rational people. You've allowed opportunistic hustlers like Gage to lead you down the garden path into marginalized irrelevance and ridicule with their perfectly idiotic theories, so shame on you. Own it.

[GGJohn]

10. +1000

Very few people, outside of the CT kooks, actually believe that crap, America has moved on, but I guess those truthers have to have some direction in life, however false it is.

[GGJohn]

11. So, IOW, you and your cohorts don't want to be challenged?

Reminder:

Creative Speculation is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints. Individuals who post messages contrary to a particular group's stated purpose can be excluded from posting in that group. For detailed information about this group and its purpose, click here.

What are you afraid of? That your CT's may be proven wrong? Why is that such a threat?

[snooper2]

13. hate is a strong word, more like ridicule

Just FYI

[Oneironaut]

9. Starts by poisoning the well, gets even more ridiculous.

1 - "The beams didn't melt" is a red herring. Structural beams wouldn't have to melt to cause a structural failure. The only thing that is required is that their strength is diminished.

2 - "Propaganda from..." That well is just toxic now. Once again, nothing of substance here.

3 - "No one thinks that jet fuel can melt jet beams" - according to who? Was a survey taken with an adequate sample size?

4 - A demonstration about metal losing strength and snapping isn't relevant when the WTC beams gave away and caused the building to collapse? Was he expecting a full scale model?

The rest- everyone is stupid, blah blah. Standard truther crap.