Creative Speculation
Related: About this forumWhy Rational People Buy Into Conspiracy Theories
In the days following the bombings at the Boston Marathon, speculation online regarding the identity and motive of the unknown perpetrator or perpetrators was rampant. And once the Tsarnaev brothers were identified and the manhunt came to a close, the speculation didnt cease. It took a new form. A sampling: Maybe the brothers Tsarnaev were just patsies, fall guys set up to take the heat for a mysterious Saudi with high-level connections; or maybe they were innocent, but instead of the Saudis, the actual bomber had acted on behalf of a rogue branch of our own government; or what if the Tsarnaevs were behind the attacks, but were secretly working for a larger organization?
Crazy as these theories are, those propagating them are not theyre quite normal, in fact. But recent scientific research tells us this much: if you think one of the theories above is plausible, you probably feel the same way about the others, even though they contradict one another. And its very likely that this isnt the only news story that makes you feel as if shadowy forces are behind major world events.
The best predictor of belief in a conspiracy theory is belief in other conspiracy theories, says Viren Swami, a psychology professor who studies conspiracy belief at the University of Westminster in England. Psychologists say thats because a conspiracy theory isnt so much a response to a single event as it is an expression of an overarching worldview.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazine/why-rational-people-buy-into-conspiracy-theories.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
TxDemChem
(1,918 posts)I think he and his followers are absolutely nuts, but I have seen some otherwise normal people believing in other CPs. It is really sad.
kickysnana
(3,908 posts)Who decides when it is reality and when it is a conspiracy theory? After all 50% of the people believe really, really dumb shit.
Frank_Norris_Lives
(114 posts).....maybe there are so many real conspiracies involving US government personnel?
Let's list some of those (THAT WE KNOW OF):
1. IRS Targets Patriot/Tea Party Groups
2. Valerie Plame is outed
3. Iran-Contra
4. Gulf of Tonkin
5. Operation Mockingbird
6. Operation Northwoods
7. CIA Brings Drugs to L.A.
8. Watergate
9. Tuskegee Syphilis Study
10. Operation Paperclip
11. COINTELPRO
12. MKULTRA
13. Operation AJAX
14. Barry Seal/Mena, Arkansas
15. Operation Gladio
The main thing for the 6 big media groups to use 'conspiracy theorist' as a pejorative to subdue real discussion and then, if anything really gets legs, pump in the disinfo and some crazies. That's what I'd do too.
Those who don't believe in conspiracies have never experienced real power.
Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)This is your idea of a government conspiracy? What's your thoughts on a Benghazi coverup?
Frank_Norris_Lives
(114 posts)....the people I've talked to in SOCOM AFRICOM said there was absolutely no reason we couldn't have quickly reacted. Somebody let Ambassador Stevens die.
Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)Frank_Norris_Lives
(114 posts)....it's irrelevant.
Frank_Norris_Lives
(114 posts)My view comes from the independent Treasury Inspector General's report available here: http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2013reports/201310053fr.pdf
Quote: The IRS used inappropriate criteria that identified for review Tea Party and other organizations applying for tax-exempt status based upon their names or policy positions instead of indications of potential political campaign intervention.
To me, an IG report always carries more weight that what officials say publicly, even under testimony. They've combed and analyzed the paper trail.
So, Bolo, you don't think it's a conspiracy? Perhaps you think it's just a GOP smear? That our side has a pure white vest? This is going to get worse before it gets better. Especially with Lerner refusing to testify. Heh, heh, take a knee for the team.
Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)Read it again. If it carries that much weight for you, then you'd be saying its conclusions, not this conspiracy bullshit.
Frank_Norris_Lives
(114 posts)....in large, compartmental and geographically diverse organizations such as the US government? Do you know the tactics and impact of purposeful inaction, of transferring work to other sections without providing guidance or expectations? That's exactly what this report lays out.
Reading between the lines, one can easily surmise that the determinations unit manager and the EO director were in cahoots. I think it's good that Holder has initiated investigations, it needs to come out.
Lerner will go down for this, along with others. "I haven't done anything wrong!" (but I plead the 5th so as to not incriminate myself)
Pleading the 5th is a smart choice for her but she shouldn't have said anything at all. Right now her actions very much look like a violation of the Hatch Act and that is a fast-track for termination from government service. The Hatch Act is taught every year in mandatory ethics training. But, refusing to testify, well, that's not in the table of penalties so she has a much better chance of keeping her career taking that track.
So, sit in the corner and cry, "conspiracy bullshit." I'm gonna watch the show.
Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)you importing conspiracy bullshit to a report that says nothing of the sort.
Do better.
ConcernedCanuk
(13,509 posts).
.
.
yup - my own (but not so detailed) response would have been
BECAUSE THEY ARE TRUE???
CC
gtar100
(4,192 posts)Government officials from a secret branch of the CIA were also in on the cover-up. That's the only real, logical explanation for their believing in conspiracy theories.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"They tend to enjoy the ego-boost that comes with thinking of oneself as the only intelligent objector in a world of sheeple. When the government has to spend billions of dollars shuttling Elvis from Roswell to the Bermuda Triangle and back in black helicopters before you can feel good about yourself, you've got to be pretty tragic..."
http://www.cracked.com/funny-44-conspiracy-theories/
Short article, but it's funny because it's true (and Cracked).
Frank_Norris_Lives
(114 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 4, 2013, 06:32 AM - Edit history (1)
....for a well-deserved, thorough thrashing.
" Koerth-Baker's) assumption is that, in a country perennially employing tens of thousands of top-secret covert operatives, homicide-trained assassins and special forces enthusiasts, no one has any reason to suspect that any event involving some kind of death or mayhem was ever engineered on an organized basis."
"In order to understand who is a crazy conspiracy theorist, you first have to understand which theories are crazy, and which are validand that requires a knowledge of current events and history apparently beyond the ken of the likes of Koerth-Baker. Without such knowledge, youre in no position to assess whether a perceived conspiracy might be real or not. Example: if you dont know that John Wilkes Booth had accomplices in the death of Abraham Lincoln, you would judge as bonkers a statement that at least one American president was in fact killed by a conspiracy. It is not clear whether Koerth-Baker is truly ignorant of these issuesor just wants to help the New York Times keep you ignorant."
"But there is another group, to which we proudly belong: people who live in the real world and are not blind to nuance, people who dont buy what the kook machines have to sell, but also recognize that the establishment media (compromised by, among other things, its financial dependency on the corporate elites) cant be trusted to get to the real bottom of things."
To which I too proudly belong.
http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/05/31/new-york-times-warning-trust-authorities-on-boston-bombing-or-youre-nuts/
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)ocpagu
(1,954 posts)I'm glad, at least, with the fact that the huge majority of comments by the readers on the NY Times link show they've felt the same way I did about the author. She's a moron (or has an agenda). Someone needs to send her back to elementary school and give her a nice history book.
I particularly liked this gem:
"Psychologists arent sure whether powerlessness causes conspiracy theories or vice versa. Either way, the current scientific thinking suggests these beliefs are nothing more than an extreme form of cynicism, a turning away from politics and traditional media which only perpetuates the problem."
Now we have psychologists trying to decipher (pay attention) what CAUSES conspiracy theories (?). And we have a "current scientific thinking" on the matter... funny, because one would think controversies related to history accounts should be a topic to be deciphered by experts in this field. Which means historians, social scientists, political scientists, etc. Not psychologists.
But her point is trying to equate being skeptical with a mental disease. Healthy people don't question their governments and "traditional media".
Of course. Why should we question governments or "traditional media"? It's not like they have been ever partners in any known, proven, real, undeniable conspiracy...
New York Times: "Why we know Iraq is lying" (LOL!)
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/23/opinion/why-we-know-iraq-is-lying.html
Has "traditional media" found the weapons of mass destruction already?
After they do, perhaps they may start rebuilding their reputation and someone may pay some attention to their desperate articles about "conspiracy theories". Some of which should be named "controversies" by now.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Why We Know Iraq Is Lying
By Condoleezza Rice
Published: January 23, 2003
Unfortunately the New York Times went along with Bush's neocon B/S. Judith Miller was very annoying. When I saw her or Andrea Mitchell from NBC on TV I assumed I was being fed B/S. It was clear they had an agenda.
The neocons were themselves CT'ers, with their crazy "Axis of Evil" conspiracy talk and their convenient blaming of Iraq for any evil when it was necessary to promote their agenda.
Skeptics will use logic and follow the actual evidence and their knowledge of the source of the evidence rather than believing whatever may make them feel good.
Just because some conspiracies exist doesn't mean all conspiracy claims should be taken seriously. Many didn't fall for the neocon's B/S, or don't fall for the CT stuff that is often promoted by the not very skeptical in the Creative Speculation Group.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)As I said, "government and media being partners in conspiracy".
And, no, the neocons were NOT themselves CT'ers. A "CT'er", I believe, is how you call people who are skeptical about the official explanations regarding controversial subjects. The definition does not apply to Bush and the other thugs he put in office. They didn't believe any of this shit, they were deliberately lying and deceiving the American people. They were the ones who CREATED the lies, not the ones who believed in them. In other words, they were not "CTers". They were CONSPIRATORS. But it's funny to see that you seem to believe Bush and the neocons were acting in good faith...